Which QB Do You Think Should Start?
I know someone already kind of asked this in the thread http://mgoblog.com/content/2010-quarterback-derby-you-make-call#comments but there were only a couple comments where people actually said who they wanted to start. Well now im asking, straight up. Who do you think should start. I know its early and the spring videos cannot be taken seriously because Denard played against the second team D, yada yada yada. Who do you think should start the season, based off everything you know, think, have seen, and have heard.
Tate should be the starter. I know he might be slower than Denard but he is the better QB IMHO.
Wait this isn't detroitlions.com.
FAIL
faster then Denard?
its Denard now.
Based purely on experience. QB is all about decision making and having the most playing time from last year is a huge factor for me. I hope Denard sees the field enough, though, to show the coaches what he is capable of. But, at least early in the season, I would go with Tate.
whoever runs the offense better.
Is this the "I like em both" theory?
best answer to this question i've seen on this board in a long long time.
As he was all last year, but now with the development of DRob we are going to be that much better on O. Now DRob can come into the game and actually have a threat to pass the ball. Plus Tate will come back healthy and hopefully play like he did at the beginning of last season.
But I think we all know there won't be 1 qb in this horse race. We need both to be productive this year.
Oh and how exciting was the programming on the Big 10 Network yesterday?! It got me real fired up for this season. Sept 4 couldn't come any quicker.
They should both start. 2 QB backfield. Oh shit who are they gonna snap it to!
I would have assumed you would be on Tates side. I guess you have to keep the element of surprise right?
I can see this turning into a twilight thing with Team Tate and Team Denard....it'll just be a matter of time until the corner stands start selling these tshirts on football saturdays
p.s. I'm on team denard
I can see this turning into a twilight thing with Team Tate and Team Denard.
EDIT: This post was meant to be entirely a-political. I just posted the video for the, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
You had to bring twilight in here?
I loved Denard in the spring game and what not, but I still think Tate starts against UConn. I think Denard will be used extensively as well, but Tate's the starter. Maybe by the end of the season we'll have a different story and Denard will be starting, but this is what I think for our first game.
Whoever the coaches feel gives us the best chance to win immediately. Their opinion carrys a lot more weight than mine does and they will be directly affected by the choice. I am just glad it looks like we have two viable options to start the season.
It's true that your opinion doesn't matter, but it can still be talked about.
whoever wins the job in camp. I'm as big a fan of Tate as anyone, and I want to say he gets the job at UConn and we get Denard on the field... but the truth is that the argument is several months too premature. Tate will get his chance to keep his job, and Denard will get his chance to take it.
Deep breaths, people... over two months to go...
I said "i know its early" in my post. I was not making a big deal of it. I was just intresed in what people thought. No one was really freaking out.
It's time for more MGoProfiles! Get cracking! I haven't had my fix for 2 weeks....
It's cold....so cold.....
MGoProfile is back on track for tomorrow, with a very special guest if I do say so.
BETTER.
.
Srsly.
.
Tate Forcier. He'll come on strong in summer practice. They'll play both, but Tate will be the starter.
Tate's game should take a step forward because of improved line play as well. With the two deep all with a year in the system and Lewan looking like a beast to anchor the left tackle spot, take should have more time to throw his midling range highly accurate unstoppable balls that we all know he can. Watching some Pat White film on how to fake the read option a little better would help also.
DRob is the IDEAL QB for this offense. He is the second coming of Pat White. Make no mistake about it, RR and Magee prefer a run-centric offense and Tate simply is not fast enough or athletic enough to make the read-option really "hum".
With DRob now actually running the read-option (I can't recall him running it at all last season) and being a much improved passer (although still not as good as Tate) this offense will look a lot like the WVU offense during the Pat White years.
I expect to see UM run the ball 40-45 times a game, average at least 5.0 yards per carry and score 35+ rushing TD's in 2010. Book it.
I agree, I love Tate and think he can be great and we could win alot of games with him, but Denard is the ideal fit for this offense. If he can play like he did in the spring game in a real game, he could very well be the most dangerous QB in the country. The thing that really stood out to me about Denards spring game other then the vast improvment in his passing ability, was his poise in the pocket. My biggest knock on Tate last year was he just didn't look comfortable in the pocket. He looked more in his element rolling out, but he looked flusterd when he stood in the pocket. On a few of Denards spring passes, namley the deep TD and the TD pass from about the 20, I was really impressed how he stood tall in the pocket and let the play develope. If he shows he can do that in real games, we could be smelling roses.
I'll just go into my hole after that embed fail. Neg away.
I think the one who gives us the best down field passing ability. Whether that be through Tate's experience and accuracy or Denard's running threat pulling everyone up, we have to have a down field threat or everyone we play will stack the line from now until the end of time. There is little doubt we will run the ball effectively and that we will execute our short passing game, but without a long game the home runs will be rare. If this offense can be run balanced, we will be 40+ ppg easily... That being said, the coaching staff has to let them throw down field also and maybe they will have more faith in a pair of Sophs. Lets hope so. The starter will be Tate, although some read option with both in the backfield could prove interesting...
both play extensively against UConn. I don't see Denard being able to trump Tate's experience (can't believe I'm saying that about a true sophomore, but the reality is that Denard barely played last year in terms of running the actual offense) in camp. He will have to earn it on the field.
Both could continue to come in and out as long as the team is winning. If there's trouble early (i.e., against UConn and ND) then it's likely Rodriguez will pick one of them. It's a tough choice, but I think in the end, Denard's vast superiority as a runner in traffic outweighs whatever advantages Tate has in ball handling and passing. Turnovers are the wild card -- both will be on a pretty short leash in that respect.
I don't think Tate loses the job in practice, but the hook will be quick if he falters come game time.
Montana is a legend to be sure, and he'll no doubt be a first ballot HOF guy. However, his lack of mobility led directly to a loss to the Giants in the NFC title game; that strip sack was the final nail in the coffin. By using his escapability and dangerous vertical speed on occasion, Young will keep the defense honest, allowing more efficient exploitation of TE/LB and RB/LB matchups. Additionally, while he may not be as cool and colected as Joe, Steve has that competitive fire that you just can't put a price on. His infectious charisma makes the whole team better.
I love what RR said about wanting to have two QBs who can start. Quarterbacks are fragile; it's nice to have true depth at the position.
I looked at the available data from RR's time at WVU on Rivals.com and came up with the following (this is from 2003-2007 seasons only and does not include bowl games):
| Year | Passing | Rushing | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Att/G | YPA | Yds/G | TD | Att/G | YPC | Yds/G | TD | |
| 2007 | 20.5 | 7.7 | 157.6 | 16 | 49.1 | 6.0 | 292.9 | 49 |
| 2006 | 18.2 | 8.8 | 160.7 | 15 | 45.4 | 6.7 | 302.3 | 47 |
| 2005 | 16.3 | 6.5 | 116.2 | 12 | 51.1 | 5.1 | 262.5 | 34 |
| 2004 | 20.8 | 7.2 | 163.8 | 20 | 49.3 | 5.1 | 252.8 | 23 |
| 2003 | 19.4 | 8.3 | 162.3 | 19 | 47.6 | 4.6 | 217.3 | 25 |
As you can see, WVU was a run heavy team every year under RR, not just during the Pat White years. In fact, WVU was dead last in pass attempts in the Big East every year under RR and first, all but one year, in rush attempts every year under RR.
I don't expect RR to change his offensive philosophy at this point in his coaching career and that is why I think he will prefer DRob to Tate as his starting QB for 2010 and beyond.
those are not all QB runs. Most of those runs are by a guy known in football circles as the "Running Back".
Yes and if you put all uneeded sarcasm aside you realize he is trying to tell you that in those years the QB had alot of run plays too.
04- Rasheed Marshall 169 rush attempts
05- Pat White 131 rush attemtps
06- Pat White 165 rush attempts
07- Pat Whtie 197 rush attempts
I do not know how many of those were designed QB run plays but i do know that the ratio of QB runs to "anyone other than QB" runs were
04- 169-250 (40%)
05- 131-486 (21%)
06- 165-422 (28%)
07- 197-425 (32%)
So Rich has QB runs about 30% of the time on average.
Denard would be better for that style offense.
That is what he was trying to say.
using Rivals.com (again), but they are even more tilted in favor of QB runs as a percentage of total runs (note: I included all QB runs, not just the starter):
2007 246 of 589 == 41.8%
2006 197 of 545 == 36.1%
2005 187 of 562 == 33.3%
2004 169 of 542 == 31.2%
2003 101 of 571 == 17.7% (I think I may have missed a QB this year)
I also calculated UM's QB run ratio for 2008 and 2009:
2009 187 of 494 == 37.8%
2008 118 of 453 == 26.0%
So, with mobile QB's available to him, RR WILL have his QB's run...quite often. One last interesting stat, Threet and Sheridan had higher YPC averages in 2008 than Tate had in 2009. Go figure.
I got my stats off of espn. Their numbers are conflicting with NCAA and team sites sometimes.
I agree that DRob will over the course of the season probably prove to be the best fit for this offense if he can maintain the level of play he showed in the spring game. But I really doubt that he'll be the starter for game #1.
I think Tate's experience, knowledge of the offense and 99 Moxie rating will win out in practice and he'll lead the team onto the field against UCONN. If Tate can play well (great point above about improved line play helping him out) and move the ball, RR will have to find a way to get Denard onto the field even with Tate at QB.
If Tate falters, or looks just average, I think DRob will get his chance to show he can move the ball. Best case scenario for DRob will be starting a game though, not coming in in relief and facing a large deficit, forcing him into a pass-fest. He needs to be able to have a good mix of running, passing and play-action in order to really get this offense clicking the way RR has constructed it.
Here's hoping that DGard can enjoy his season from the side-line and redshirt while watching two productive QB's battle for the starting job.
TATE FORCIER WILL
...
BE
...
THE STARTER BUT DENARD
... YES
...
COULD TAKE
OVER
WHEN COACH MAGEE IS
...
INJURED IN A COLLISION
...
...
WITH A 5 POINT BUCK ON US
-23
...
YES
I am looking forward to that first blown assignment by the DE (on a BCS caliber team) and the rest of his team watching the locks go blowing in the wind down the field. Lets hope he can read the DEs and pull the ball back effectively.
Shocking the college football world with a 10-2 and bowl win would be nice and with the offense in high gear anything could be possible. When we open 2-0, we will all be able to breath a sigh of relief. New stadium, new era
Tate is just not a very physical player. HIs running is only a mild threat, and he seems to get banged up a lot. We dont want him running too much.
Either he played hurt the second half of last year, or his arm is just not that strong.......and we didnt see his reported laser accuracy when throwing on the run. Maybe he is still hurt, but he looked pretty ordinary in the spring game...a number of forced throws could have/should have been picked.
When in trouble, Tate often forces passes. My suspicion is that Denard in trouble, will take off on foot.
Although I hope Gardner redshirts this year, I could see Tate sinking to third string by late in the season.
I dont know about third string but everything else you said seems to be on point with what i believe after watching those videos.
He tore his labrum after 4 full games, and kept on playing. I don't know what more you want. QB's get injured. In his senior year, Henne messed his shoulder up and missed far more time than Tate did.
Tate is a gutty player, and he took a pounding for it. Seems to me we saw Denard rushed onto the field (for his obligatory running play) a few times to give Tate a breather after getting hit hard .
As much as he ran the ball, Denard didnt seem to take the same kind of hits as Tate, IMO
I agree that Denard looks better constructed to take a hit, and is more elusive so he may not take one. But I also think that if Tate can be Notre Dame Tate 2.0 with a full year as starter under his belt and a broadened playbook ... Denard hasn't closed the gap yet.
I see a Leek / Tebow type of season (and Denard may be more elusive, but not as big and less destructable as Tebow).
Regardless of QB, we really need some (consistant) breakout running backs, and Molk to stay healthy ...
I hope it's Denard, for two reasons:
1. As everyone has mentioned, he's the more prototypical spread-offense QB. I think with his arm strength and speed he can be deadly.
2. If Denard starts, that means he won the QB battle big time. If things are close, I would expect RR to put Tate out there to start, and I don't see Tate regressing a whole lot (I assume he'll have progressed, actually). For Denard to win, he would need to beat out Tate by a significant margin, which would mean he's shaping up quite nicely.
Tate = Better passer
Denard = Better runner
Which ever one turns the ball over less should start, turnovers are the reason we lost so many games last year. We were competitive in almost every game with the exception of Penn State. Improved ball security will REALLY help our record. Both QB's will be used often this year, more so than last year.
You're pretty much on point with that. I think what gives Denard the edge in our offense, granted im assuming we will see the Denard we saw in the spring this fall is... Denard = Better runner, Tate = Better passer, But Denard is a better passer then Tate is a runner. I don't know if im making my point very clear but what I'm getting at is I think Denard is closer to the "total package" so to say for this offense then Tate is.