At the press conference announcing RR's termination, Dave Brandon talked about how Michigan has historically paid its coaches "in the middle of the pack" (quoting http://mgoblog.com/content/press-conference-recap) and stated that that was "not appropriate" (quoting Dave Brandon). Well, what happened? What happened to paying big bucks for a coach? Dave Brandon certainly can't be considering paying Brady Hoke top-of-the-market money. And while I had my hopes that a shitty head coach hire like Brady Hoke would mean Michigan was sure to shell out the moolah to bring in some top notch coordinators, we're now staring down the barrel of Al fucking Borges at OC and Vance Bedford/Jon Hoke/Some Other Crappy McCrapperson at DC. These people can't command the kind of money real football schools are paying their coaches. So was Dave Brandon just talking out his ass? Is the man completely full of hot air? Slimier than a used car salesman? Dave Brandon set the bar for himself by saying that Michigan's failure to pay its coaches above middle of the pack was "not appropriate," but then he hired coaches for whom compensation above middle of the pack would be "not appropriate." Is Dave Brandon off his retarded rocker? Where are the big-time coaches we looked forward to following Dave Brandon's talk about opening the coffers?
Where's the money, Dave Brandon?
Calmer'n you are.
The world would be a better place if you had no fingers.
Several of them. I won't concern myself with the details of the current head coach's contract.
But what I will observe, is that we somehow failed to bring in the desired Defensive Coordinator in the last Coaching Administration. Did we somehow fail, monetarily, to coax Jeff Casteel out of West Virginia?
It is not likely a problem so much for David Brandon. It might be an issue for Bill Martin, who I have routinely defended vigorously throughout this blog.
John U. Bacon's book is coming out this fall. I'd really, really, really like to know the true story behind Michigan's two, or three, or more, failed efforts to bring Jeff Casteel to Ann Arbor. Jeff Casteel, who only made something like $372k at WVU. I hope John's book tells that story.
that said db allowed up to $1M to bring in a new dc and the only person rr really went after was casteel, who had just bern given assurances about autonomy and pay by o.luck, the wvu ad. I believe the rumors were that rr was trying to ask other dc's but nobody wanted to work for rr, partly because everybody thought he was a lame duck.
I have coached with a guy who has connections to members of the WVUstaff, and it is my understanding that RR was a control freak about everything. Also, Jeff Casteel was asked again toward the end of this season to be the DC and he declined again. Hopefully RR takes advantage of his time off to assess his philosophy on leadership and delegating authority to assistants before moving on to the next job. I would love to see him sucessful at his next job.
With a former player and GA under RR and he said with utmost clarity that RR is/was a control freak who forced the 3-3-5, freqently overruled Magee's play calling, and generally did what he wanted without fear of condemnation. To be clear, this individual was not angry or bitter when he told me this and felt bad saying it.
I'm just enjoying my cup of coffee.
i don't think Jon Hoke is coming here. And the staff is not done yet, maybe there will be a surprise.
Jon Hoke doesn't think Jon Hoke is coming here either:
Is he a reliable source on this issue?
......since sometimes at work, I don't think I am going somewhere, and yet, I end up there. Usually, I have no idea how it happened and I would have sworn up and down it wasn't going to happen.
If so, I would suggest making a lot of notes and keeping them on your person. Either that, or stop sniffin' glue. Good luck.
I will not believe Jon Hoke's take on Jon Hoke as a potential DC until Tom VH confirms.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
wow..how longs it been since you left Mlive?
That's cute, my five year old has a friend named Stupid McStupidhead. Maybe they're related...
When I was little I had a buddy named Whiner McWhinestein. Gotta be some ties there, too.
my roommate is douchey mcdoucherson
That guy was my roommate four years ago!
lemme guess... and he dated chesty la rue?
Didn't he fail out at some point in the mid-1990s? I think he was in the co-op next to mine. I had wondered where he went after that.
Seven years of college down the drain.
The people who used to sit in the big booth with their iPhones out at trivia night were the McCheatersons. Must be second cousins.
I would say I hate them if I occasionally didn't become one of them, too. The pressure to win can be so great sometimes, don't judge me!
So many questions. And middle school profanity.
but it's not like he doesn't have a point.
Brandon did say we'd pay top dollar for coaches, and that hasn't happened so far. Part of the sales pitch on Hoke was that we'd open the coffers to go after top-flight assistants, but I don't think anyone can really be overwhelmed by the guys who have filled out the staff up to this point, and the staff is starting to get pretty full.
If we don't end up with an absolutely top-flight DC, then I'm going to be pretty disappointed that Brandon didn't end up opening the wallet.
There was a diary done by iawolve about Brandon coming from Dominos and what to expect. The fifth paragraph down starts with "Last, as the new CEO, you would be given very aggressive profitability targets to meet. This would be achieved via cost cutting and revenue expansion."
The university is already near the middle of the Big Ten in expenditures on the football program and this hire should allow them to cut cost even more. Especially with DB's insistence on midwest recruiting ties cutting down on those costly flights back and forth to Florida.
We already seen signs of revenue expansion or ideas for it given. Advertising at "The Big Chill at the Big House". The idea that DB floated about opening the "Big House" to weddings (nothing like sacrificing the purity of "holy ground" for profit).
I wish you were 100% joking instead of only mostly joking.
You are mostly joking right? Right?
He brings in his cronies, and everyone feels safe.
They will all get more money than they were making before. But once you bring in Brady Hoke, you cannot hire an assistant coach that could overshadow him. That would create turmoil, and DB is eliminating drama from the program.
Who is this top notch DC you speak off? There has to be interest from a top notch DC first. The guy is in this position for a reason and you are on this blog for a reason.
Believe in DB and this coaching staff to do the right thing. Hoke is the coach he will chose a DC to fit the system he wants and if that is Bedford or Magnus DB will pay them their worth.
would be an obvious candidate.
And the concern isn't that Brandon won't pay the coaches their worth. It's that we won't go after coaches who are worth breaking the bank for.
Everyone keeps mentioning Shannon. Is there any evidence that Shannon 1) is looking for a job for next season and 2) is willing to be an assistant coach again?
but it's possible that offering him around a million dollars a year might get him on the phone.
At the very least, he's the kind of guy we should be taking shots at; someone with a track record who will cost a crapload. If you want a guy like Kirby Smart, you've gotta pay the market rate for Kirby Smart.
If i remember correctly for most coordinators, the elite ones don't even make remotely close to 1 mil. I think our coordinators made around 250k in the Rod era, and I read somewhere (might have been this blog?) that that was only around 50-100k off the typical average. So 300-350k is the average, and that is WAY off of a mil. Elite coordinators probably make 500-600k at most.
both make 700,000 or so. Malzahn makes 1.2 mil. Venables makes somewhere around 500k.
Gary Crowton, who basically got the axe from LSU, was just hired by Randy Edsall at Maryland and will make $500,000 per year.
Maryland is paying Crowton 500K? This, ladies and gentlemen, is the worst case scenario for people who scream "THROW SOME MONEY AT A COORDINATOR."
what about charlie?
isnt he making some serious $$?
I don't know, but I know what he's spending it on (food, of course).
wow... that is eerily similar.
Is that Violet Beauregard? Violet you're turning violet, violet
Thanks, but my four year old just threw up and is in a corner sucking his thumb mumbling " no more nuggets, no more nuggets, no more nuggets..."
This picture, I can't help but wonder "what is wrong with this"? Could his shirt and pants have come from Fox tent and awning?
ok i wasnt going to go there, but "you have inspired me!"
these two are my fav's:
Weis is so photgenic. I couldn't help but think looking at that pic of Quin and Weis... What do you think wen through quins mind during conditioning when Charlie told him he had to get in better shape. I just don't see how anyone would take him seriously.
That look isn't a "schematic advantage", I don't know what is..
Is there any evidence he's not? There's no harm in finding out. I don't have any opinion one way or the other on Vance Bedford except that it's a little disconcerting that Hoke's approach to putting together a staff appears to be summed up best as "getting the gang back together." Shannon would bring instant credibility, and Vance Bedford will probably still be at Louisville by the time Shannon gets called up for another HC position.
I just saw the 30 for 30 on "The U" the other day, aka "ESPN glorifies cheating, taunting, and mockery of academia as the good ol days." Anyway, Shannon was named as a guy handing out cash to players for Luther "2 Live Crew" Campbell way back when, and he was painted in a bad light in the infamous (around here) OTL on Les Miles and oversigning as well. No way he's getting hired, sorry.
Just as they did with the head coaching search, people throw out names for coordinators without taking things like this into account. All many people seem to care about is bringing in whoever they think is the hottest name--the person's character or fit with the University of Michigan be damned.
You also can't discount that Brady Hoke needs to hire people that he feels comfortable working with. If that means he's more likely to hire someone he's worked with before or who has worked at U-M before, why is that so surprising?
Is there any evidence he's not?
Yes - the fact that it's January 15 and he doesn't have a job. Miami fired him over a month ago. It's not like he couldn't find a coordinating position somewhere if he wanted one.
Nothing is fucked dude, you're being veeeeeeery undude.
I assume Hoke won't totally break the bank, but do we know anything yet about what the assistants are going to be paid?
I've been out of the loop on that. All I heard was from the press conference where Hoke took the job without hearing the financial details. I am curious as to where he comes in.
I don't think it's been released yet, but I'd imagine he'll make less than RR to start out, since this is his first big job.
I'm not thrilled about Hoke, but I'm still All-In for him. It might just be a little tepid at this point. But man, he's not a shitty head coach. If he was that bad, Ball State wouldn't have been 11-1 under him. And SDSU doesn't go 9-4 this year. Bobby Williams? Now that was a sh$*%&y coach.
Where's the money, Levowski?! Where's the f@%king money?!
But seriously, as Arizona taught us this week, maybe the mentally crazies should come up as a red flag when being screened for a gun.
This has nothing to do with OP. Also, politics and national tragedy are outside the scope of this blog.
DB said in his announcing press conference that he had met hoke for TWELVE seconds (not TEN or FIFTEEN, exactly TWELVE) prior to his interview. He went on to say he determined the next coach based on TWELVE criteria points. 5 years, 12 million...not quite middle of the pack, but consistent to say the least, and certainly more than 20/week and a dozen doughnuts. Anyone else notice the Mike Golic resemblence??
I agree with the OP. And, after bragging that Hoke took the job without even knowing what it paid, he dodged the question regarding Hoke's salary.
The question of Hoke's salary is ultimately not dodgable as it will be a matter of public record once the contract is signed. He likely "dodged" it at the PC because the number didn't yet exist.
... when he starting waxing big-money-throwing.
I'm with you that DB sucks. I want him gone.
But I'd rather prefer he go back on his word and not give Brady Hoke big money. Why waste?
Except didn't he say at the same press conference that he thought Harbaugh was going to the NFL?
Why would Brandon talk about paying big, big dollars, then hire Hoke for middle-of-the-road dollars (an assumption) if he wasn't seriously considering some very high profile candidates other than Harbaugh? Maybe Hoke wasn't the preordained choice?
By all accounts Brady Hoke was the only one offered the job. Thus he was target #1 from the beginning and DB wasted time that should have been used for recruiting, but is now being used for interviews, trying to put a staff together, and not taking calls or returning them from recruits at positions of need (Tabb).
Since LC's coaching tree sucks so bad he was the only "Michigan Man" (I'm starting to hate that term) for the job. Bo's guys are older except for Harbaugh and he wasn't coming here. IMHO the whole top dollar mantra was a smoke screen to hide the inevitable which everyone tried to ignor from start.
If Hoke Coached under Jack Harbaugh, and Jack Harbaugh coached under Bo Schembechler, does that not make Hoke part of the Schembechler tree of coaches?
meme is getting old. Yes, maybe technically Hoke was the only one offered an official contract. But DB was clearly testing the waters with several other higher profile candidates prior to the Hoke hire who clearly were not interested. The question is why were they not interested. Money? Challenge of the job and appeasing an impatient fan base? Personality conflicts? Who knows. All we can do now is support Hoke and hope for the best.
As I understand what's been said, when DB announced his coaching search he had met Hoke for 12 seconds. I suspect he was in the top group of candidates but not necessarily the only candidate.
At the coach search press conference DB advertised that Michigan would pay more then Michigan has historically paid in order to widen the pool of candidates. After this, he talked to some number of candidates and decided that Hoke was the right man for the job.
But I'd rather prefer he go back on his word and not give Brady Hoke big money.
He doesn't need to go back on his word. He said he was prepared to pay what it took to get the right staff here. That wasn't a guarantee that the next coach would make top-5 money.
pardoning FuMan for an emo whine post. Are we going to have to go through that again with you?
Reminder to all: don't drink and post. It can kill an MGoPoint total.
This doesn't qualify as an emo whine post. The OP makes a reasoned argument, regardless of the crude wording. The AD shouldn't talk about changing the way Michigan operates by finally paying top-tier money to its coaches and then turn around and hire a coach that doesn't deserve top-tier money. That's a valid point, not an emo whine.
Short term answer, yes. Long term, we don't know.
Brady Hoke is actually paying Dave Brandon to coach the Michigan football team.
DB: "Ahem, Brady, it's been a month since you signed your contract. You know that you're overdue with your last payment? I have to charge you some interest."
BH: (looking perplexed) "Payment, what payment?"
DB: (pulls out contract) "Uh, it says right here.... '...for the right of being head coach of University of Michigan football team, I Brady Hoke the undersigned, do hereby pay Dave Brandon $1.2 million dollars in 12 monthly payments per year for that right. Failure to do so...."
BH: (looking dejected) "Oh, never read the contract. It was my dream job, you know. (Looks at contract) Wait, what's this about 'soul'?"
DB: "Oh, that, nothing. Don't you worry"
If he had felt Les Miles was the right man for the job, he would've paid top money. Brady Hoke was the best man for Michigan, but hasn't earned he Mack Brown/Saban/Miles money yet. If he is what Brandon thinks he is, he will be getting a fat pay raise. I don't see what the probem is. Borges is going to be a great OC for us, and Denard, and they are going to bring in a DC 1,000x better than GERG could ever be. The fact that people are still moaning about this makes me sad.
Now I am back to drinking. Go Blue, and Hokeamania is about to run wild on your asses.
is that just saying all this doesn't make it so.
Maybe I'm too drunk, but what do you mean? Hoke was considered the best man for the job, but being the best man for the job doesn't mean you get paid top five money. Your head coach's salary does not reflect on the state of your program in the least. If that were so, than Ohio State is a doldrum. Oh wait, he won the NC in his second year.
Bottom line is certain guys need to be given their "big break" at a high profile school. Honestly, I think Brandon is going to look like a genius for this hire. It really is basically Tressel 2.0, or Bo 2.0 IMO.
If I am interpreting what you said wrong, please say so.
but we're not even talking about Hoke right now. We're talking about his assistants.
Basically, my issue is this: I feel like we're putting together an extremely meh staff and everyone is acting like Pangloss.
Honestly, I don't think we're putting a very "meh" staff together. Borges on the best OC award in 2004 for god sakes. And as we've seen in the NFL, a mobile QB like Denard can flourish in a West Coast type of offense, and Borges already said he'd implement several different looks on offense.
Oh, and since supposedly Harbaugh and Miles declined ( and honestly, I can understand Jimmay's stance, but not so much Miles, even though his team is considered top 5 preseason polls) yes, Hoke is considered the best man. As we saw with Rod (who I supported til the day he got fired btw) that we need a guy that completely understands the traditions, and fully loves this university. I say this, because if these don't happen, then you have influential alumi and the local media against you, and can cause negative recruiting, distractions for the current team, etc. Hoke can unite the fan base, which is priority no. 1 for this program IMO.
Other than that, who else has been hired already? Fred Jackson is back (obviously) as RB coach, and the man loves Michigan as much as Hoke, that he'll take what ever salary is given to him. Hoke's brother, an NFL assistant coach, is still a possibility to be coming over. Trgovac is still speculated upon (although I don't think he'll come in anything other than DC since Hoke will odds are be the DL coach. Then you have Vance, Loeffler, Soup, etc, who are all "Michigan Men" that have had further successes outside of the program that are possibilities to coming back.
My closing is this: don't say we're putting together a "meh" staff until we've actually put together the entire staff on all fronts.
Borges isn't awful, but his track record is essentially that of a guy who is very good as long as he has Jason Campbell, Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams on the same team, and a guy who is more like "decent" when he doesn't. He's not an awful hire, but he's not Gus Malzahn. I want our staff to be as close to "Gus Malzahn and John Chavis/Bud Foster" as it possibly can be, and we don't seem to have any interest in pursuing that route.
The point is that we've filled out half of the staff so far, and haven't had a single really big name, exciting hire on the staff. If we don't get one at DC, I'm going to be disappointed.
And I really don't give a shit if someone is a "Michigan Man."
Honestly, I think the "Michigan Man" meme is going to kill this program more than help (ala Rod), but Hoke still is the best man for the job right now. Borges had Cadillac and all that, but what has Soup Can done since Auburn? What has Cade McNown done since leaving Borges coaching at UCLA? Borges managed to make him a first round draft pick.
All I'm saying is Borges is going to run a primarily spread offense for Denard, and slowly incorporate more pro-style for him, and it will benefit him in the long run. Honestly, I can easily see us running what OSU is right now, only Denard is, you know, smart, and, you know, wants to learn, unlike his OSU counterpart. Denard can be like Tebow. When he won the NC, that was primarily in a spread.
And we do not need an offensive minded HC for this team. The parts are already there, and Borges is a good offensive mind. Gus isn't leaving Auburn unless it's for a pretty good school in an AQ conference as head coach.
Besides, let's wait and see how that offense does without Newton. Borges had several top offensive players on his undefeated season, and still did alright with what Tuberville was able to bring in for awhile. Remember, Tuberville got the axe only a year after Borges did.
it had Chris Todd -- who is Chris Todd -- and was a top 20 offense in the country.
I think Gus Malzahn is the best man for the Michigan job right now, but we don't have him, so I'd at least like to surround the program with coordinators who are of the caliber of Gus Malzahn. I want us to be spending 3 million dollars on our staff -- not including the salary for the head coach. I want us to pay our assistants like we're an SEC school, because we have the resources to do so.
Whatever man, I'm done with this discussion. All my point is, I'm pretty god damn happy we could get a guy the caliber of Borges to come over after all the BS that happened to RichRod, and that he is more than capable of coaching the offense, especially with the talent he has on roster.
Personally, I find it pretty damn admirable when he and Hoke say they'd walk alll the way to Ann Arbor from San Diego.
if they were awesome enough coaches to be like "we won't come to Michigan unless you give us wheelbarrows full of money."
Let's not forget about DeShawn Foster as well, eh? And a serious offensive line for a few years at UCLA. I forget who the tackle was that went 1st round but I think he just recently retired from the NFL. There was some talent back then... I used to hold season tickets (looks out window at snow in A2 and wonders why I left the land of shorts and T-shirt at Nov. games) and fondly recall the butt kickings UCLA tagged onto USC back then - even when USC had the better team. It was like the Cooper years between us and OSU. Ah, getting off topic.
So regarding the DC hire, I too am holding my breath in hopes for a high profile hire. Ideally a high energy, younger guy. So what if he leaves after a few years for a HC position? That's the sign of a great hire, not an endictment that someone isn't the mythical "Michigan Man." That's one concern I have with Borges. He's what I would call a "lifer" coordinator at this point. He may be fine but I will feel much better if we grab a phenominal DC to compliment the conservative hire.
Cause I have no clue what this dude is talking about either. He's pissed at something.
we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
a Wolverines fan right now.
Just curious... what record would we need to have in 2011 and 2012 for your opinion to be validated in your eyes?
Absolutely true. By the same token, neither does saying Hoke was a shi tty hire, or 9-3 is the ceiling, etc.
but all I've said in this thread was "I am incredibly disappointed that we don't appear to be spending top dollar to get awesome coordinators."
I don't see any evidence that money has been a factor in any way with respect to any member of the staff. Is there something that I'm not aware of?
This comment shouldn't be negged.
Vance Bedford would be 1,000X better than GERG? Did you read the front page today? At Oklahoma State, Bedford's coordinating produced the 95th and 89th best defenses in the nation. YEEEEEHAW!! Got me feelin' good! /s
His overall RECENT resume beats the shit out of GERG. Greg Robinson ran an NFL team;s defense into the ground, a college program into the ground, and his only recent claim to fam is being a co-DC riding the coat tails of a guy named Vince Young. Tell me this: What has GERG done in the last decade that's legit better than Vance? What was the worst part of our defense last year? What did Vance coach at Michigan, that coincidentally led to the only DB ever winning the Heisman? The secondary at Florida was also pretty stellar. Being at two years at OKST worknig with players you primarily didn't recruit(and as I believe the blog said, got even WORST after he left there), and was primarily considered good at Louisville.
Now is Vance my first choice at DC? No. Trgovac actually is. But, to compare any current somewhat decent DC to GERG is crazy. With succesive years controling the defense at Michigan, the D got worst and worst under GERG. Historically bad.
to compare any current somewhat decent DC to GERG is crazy.
To say Vance Bedford would be 1,000X better than GERG is crazy. Would he be better? Probably. But not 1,000X better.
Well, GERG was at the helm for historically bad Michigan defenses, of which this year was almost NCAA historically bad.
There are ~120 teams in D1 college football. Even if Michigan finished last in total defense under GERG (which it didn't), finishing 95th or 89th (as OK State did under Bedford) would not be a 1,000X improvement. Vance Bedford simply would not be a big improvement over the GERG catastrophe. He'd be a barely noticeable improvement.
Good luck with that. I wouldn't come back if I were him.
You'd have a guy who actually gives you some autonomy and won't make you run a brand new defense in the middle of the season.
Plus, it gives him the chance to show he can coach at Michigan and it wasn't his fault the first go-round.
Finally, a successful stint as DC at M could be a spring board to HC jobs. I'm doubt that DC at Syracuse could do the same.
There are plenty of fine candidates out there to get other than Scott (not saying Scott isn't a good DC, because he certainly is, but that ship sailed with RR).
There, I said it. Now have a few shots, chase it down with your beverage of choice, and move the #%^* on...
P.S. I expect 9 wins or more. The roster is full of talent. No excuses.
The offense is full of talent.
He never said the roster was full of good talent.
A little premature to call Hoke a crappy hire, but Brandon did hypocrisize himself (made up a word there, get it?) by saying a lot of things before doing the opposite. It was Millenesque if it doesn't work out.
Multiply (adv.) is a real word, as previously discussed on this board. Someone should publicly call out that stuttering weasel Drew Sharp for this.
Even if it's a real word, he used it in the wrong context.
uhh dude where did you get a gif of me? STAY AWAY FROM MY FAMILY.
Ron Zook and Chris Petersen agree with this post
It's not just talent...it is also the system...I've learned that the 3-3-5 just doesn't stop Power-I running teams, I hope the new DC see that truth as well, regardless of the amount of talent (or lack thereof) he will have on hand.
...when, upon being asked if the 3-3-5 would work against power running teams in the big ten, immediately said, "Sure it will."
Case-in-point: Gene Chizik and the fact he had arguably the two best players in the country on his team this year. Let's see how far they fall down the SEC West next year. My guess is they finish no higher than 3rd (behind 'Bama and LSU).
but that post is insanely stupid.
too lazy to site a bunch of examples where you're wrong.
Ron Zook to Urban Meyer transition is a great example. That team went from mediocre to among the sec's best in a year.
croom to mullen, you know, the guy we should have at least interviewed... he turned around miss. state real quick. These improvements were made with small changes/turnover in roster from year to year.
I don't like the way he said it but I agree with the OP points. Like it or not it is beginning to appear we were lied to on the search process from beginning to end and I don't blame the OP for being pissed about it. I am too.
I"ve heard the phrase "this is Michigan" from Brandon a lot the last few weeks. That usually translates to the same old practice of expecting coaches to accept a "Michigan discount" for the privilege of being part of the program.
Between this and his statements about the monetization of the athletic department, I am starting to wonder if DB is on a commission scale. Considering his dual Michigan/CEO background, I guess old habits really do die hard.
the simple privilege of coaching at Michigan is worth an easy $2 million per year. "Market value" is for the rabble.
DB: Money can't buy me love.
Maybe you should follow his lead. Go buy yourself some love instead of banging out your frustrations on the keyboard.
nationwide interviews. We know Pinkel, Fitzgerald, Miles, JH and Hoke were all considered. What will not know for years is whether Petersen, Patterson Stoops or others we're contacted but said no.
But the point is valid. Brandon made promises that he failed to deliver. Just like that crappy pizza that he claimed was so much better, it is still middle of the pack compared to the competition. Hoke and the assistants so far, would have been a great hire for Minn or IU, but this is f'n Michigan. This is the leaders and best - why aren't our coaches the best?
I think you're missing the OP's point. DB said he'd conduct a nationwide coaching search (he didn't). DB said (and I'm paraphrasing here) he would hire the best and most qualified man for the job (in my and many other people's opinion he didnt) and he said we needed to open our checkbooks and pay top dollar for top talent (and so far we havent).
Wheather Hoke turns out to be the second coming of Bo or RR record-wise is still to be determined and I certainly hope it's the former, not the latter. But I can't for the life me understand why the board is suddenly hostile to posters who are simply pointing out the truth and that is that DB was duplicitious at best from the firing of RR till today.
How do you know DB didn't conduct a national coaching search? You ASSUME he didn't. Do you really believe that DB does not want the program to succeed? That he is more concerned about saving money than hiring the best available? You think if he offered JH, say, $6 mil/yr JH would be in Ann Arbor? How about $7 mil? $8 mil? Hell, at some point he has to throw those NFL desires out the window for $$$. Miles didn't come here because.....????...Dave Brandon blew it? Didn't offer Les enough money? It appears the other "big" names simply didn't want to leave where they are. Throw more money at them? I think hiring a head coach is not as easy as it may look sitting in front of a keyboard, pissing and whining because it didn't go the way you thought it should play out. DB is all in for Michigan. He knows what's at stake, and I think he may be a tad smarter than alot of the posters whining in this forum as to what could be done. Hell, lets start carping about how he failed to land Jon Gruden. I bet there are some real belly laughs deep in the bowels of the Michigan Athletic Department over the internet blab that surfaced around that name.
I KNOW because DB said so. He said that the "search" was limited basically to one person and that was Hoke. So unless he was having trouble finding him it wasnt a search as much as it was a coronation. No other assistant coaches anywhere were interviewed and if DB is to be taken at his word, neither was Les or Jimmy. So the "search" was pretty narrowly focused on one guy - which is NOT what DB said he would do at the outset.
If you go back and read my posts you'll see I was one of the staunchest supporters of DB and the process prior to RR's termination. I believed him when he said he would conduct a nationwide search, pay top dollar and get the best person in here. IMO he did none of those things and is now trying to spin it so fans like you buy whatever it is he's selling and that pisses me off more than a little bit.
DB: "Here's a delicious shit sandwich. It's so wonderful and tasty....take a bite...you'll love it!
Average Fan: "Oh yes Dave you're right. I do love it so....can i have some more before it's all gone?"
David Brandon when asked how many people he talked to about the job, he said "several". I think that's more than one. He went to 5 cities and he said he talked to many more people on the phone. Not sure where you got the idea that the search was limited to one person. Brandon said different in his Presser introducing Hoke.
I guess i read "spoke to" and "interviewed" as two separate events and not necessarily the same. Hey...i hope Hoke is wildly successful and never loses a game. I'm just saying I have an issue with what DB said versus what DB did. As did the OP.
I wasn't there, and neither were you, but I would be shocked, SHOCKED, if DB really only considered Brady Hoke. Hopefully, John U. Bacon will flush this out by the time his book comes out in the fall.
It's a good hire then hell, I'm convinced. This same media that portrayed RR as satan and threw the red flag over excessive stretching. Wow, I'm not buying your point there buddy. I also never said anything about Hoke's ability as a coach, in fact I wanted him when Lloyd retired. My point was that Hoke is not what we were promised. And it's very similar to pizza, we were promised something new and exciting and what we got was average at best.
As far as Brian's ass goes... I make my own opinions, I don't follow the media, including Brian. However, that doesn't change the fact that he is right.
You say you were promised "something new and exciting". I don't remember that from Brandon's presser. Please cite your reference. But let's go with that for arguments sake.
Seems to me we went the "new and exciting" route 3 years ago. How did that work out for us? Seems to me we need to get back to some Big Ten football. Instead of running past our opponents we got beat up in the conference. When RR was fired, I wanted someone to coach hard nose football. I still think Harbaugh was that guy. But you know what, maybe Hoke is. Don't know yet, but he sure is talking a good game.
Here's a car analogy for you instead of a pizza one: Maybe we need a truck to get our work done instead of a Ferarri to get to our workplace quicker. Let's get the right fit for our program instead of the hottest new thing that might look good but doesn't produce results
Half of us went new and exciting 3 years ago. And a powerful subset of those who didn't then went to work to destroy our new and exciting. Although certainly not the only reason, that is at least partly why new and exciting didn't work out so well for us.
New and exciting didn't work because it didn't win football games- period. As I and others have said, divisions make things more difficult, but by and large go away with the elixir of victory.
In my view, new and exciting didnt work in part because RR didn't win enough, and in part because there were people in positions of power behind the scenes working actively to destroy RR.
It also turned out to be less exciting/unpredictable than advertised. First down: inside handoff. Second down: QB iso/sweep. Third down: little hitch pattern. Repeat ad infinitum.
I was disappointed by that. Also that we never had anything unpredictable other than a couple of reverses. I thought it might get better as the players got older but nonetheless I was still disappointed this year.
Recruiting started off on the wrong foot.. Didnt a recruit try calling him yesterday and didn't get an answer? Brandon is a CEO, this is what the do. Maximize profits and cut spending. I personally have no problem with Hoke. Was he the best candidate for the job.. No, can he succeed? Yes. I would start answering the phone when recruits call. I do have a problem with DB and his "process". It was a bunch of bologna just to cover his trail if BH does not work out.
Hoke is a helluva coach
Hoke is a great DL coach--that much has been shown in evidence.
However, there is very little evidence that he is a great HC, other than word of mouth. DB claims to be a "data guy." Well then, what does the data about Hoke say?
DB has a CEO background. Well, one of the main things they teach you in the business world is that the best indicator of future performance is past performance. So it has been indicated that we will struggle next year, be around 8-4 in 2012, and then maybe get to 11-1 in five years.
So why would we give one guy only three years and the other five or six? Especially when the first guy improved by two wins every year and was returning basically his entire team? I guess it's b/c the second guy is a "Michigan Man."
Look, I think highly of Hoke and I hope he makes a big splash and does really well here, but I simply don't buy your fact-less assertion that Hoke is automatically a "helluva coach," and I don't buy Brandon's CEO "process" when a real business-like process would never in a million years have led to Hoke being our coach, period.
It seems pretty obvious Hoke wasn't brandon's target when he was making those remarks.
That's exactly what I was thinking. So many of us thought Hoke was the real, the only target, But I'm starting to think DB was above board on the whole search thing. He may have had preconceived notions about Les Miles, but I think he was prepared to pay if a high-profile candidate had all the criteria he was looking for. Maybe that was directed at Harbaugh - I believe he made that statement before Harbaugh officially went to the 49'ers.
I don't remember the timing of it either, but I am sure he didn't want to be known as the AD who wouldn't offer enough to get harbaugh or miles, especially with the previous way UM was viewed being cheap.
And he also mentioned that Harbaugh was headed to the NFL. So, was he trying to sway him back? Was he talking about someone else (Miles)? Why did it fall through?
Or he was just talking out of his ars. Either way, I'm happy with the hire but confused by DB. He has a long way to go to redeeming any semblance of a pimp hand...
I think he was talking about Miles for sure, but also think he may have been referring to more than just one guy
Yeah I have been confused by how he went about doing things, I can understand parts of it but there were much better ways to finish this. Not sure if he was over confident or what.
Damnit, i keep trying to reply, but i trigger the spam filter. why?
Man such anger in your life,...easey....
Dave Brandon doesn't go around the country hiring coordinators...that is unless he needs to give a private jet a workout....that would be Brady Hoke's job. So don't go complaining about paying top notch money for coordinators. These are the guys Hoke wants and feels he can win with. Hoke knows he has pretty loose purse strings to go get staff.
I'm tired of people complaining about the new hires associated with the football program when, they haven't gone on a recruiting trip, haven't held a practice or coached a game yet. Here's some advice, if you don't like some of these guys, keep your powder dry until they have some results we don't like. Then call for their heads.
I didn't want Hoke either. Based on his track record, I would have looked for a more established coach or hot coordinator. But this is who we got and after his Presser and seeing how he's been talking to some team members, I'll support him until he gives me reason not to.
When RR was hired I thought, "Well, he sure doesn't understand what it's like to be the head coach at Michigan, but I'll give him time." He NEVER got it. At least Hoke gets it. Let's see if that translates to wins.
But maybe we'd be treated to the enjoyable spectacle of Bedford calling Drew Sharp and Michael Rosenberg "roaches."
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How much is Hoke going to make? How do we know it isn't $5M per year. DB did do a nationwide search. Only Hawaii/Alaska would have been further away.
I would hope all the coaches get a decent base salary and then some incentive clauses such as $10-25K for each win ($20-30K for a Big Ten win), $50-100K for each win against MSU, OSU. and additional incentives for Big Ten championships and NC. Incentives would make them all accountable to each other and to the entire fan base. Success comes at a price and they should be rewarded for it.
A previous comment noted that it was $1M and change. Regardless of anyone's feelings for Brady Hoke - if Dave Brandon were paying him $5M a year he should be fired for financial retardation.
I think the confusion was that we would only pay top dollar to BUY OUT contracts, not to pay the coaches salary.
I think that was bluster to get people on the phone to even talk to him. Obviously this is the status quo and that will be that. Let's hope Brady gets them playing tough and with character and give up on any dreams higher than that.
One question. Why are we so cheap?
I don't think DB will be "cheap". If the right coach was available--AVAILABLE--at $5 mil/year, I think he would have paid it. A coach who would command that level of salary was apparently not available. You do not pay Brady Hoke a hugh salary just to show you are willing to do it. If Hoke gets things on track and starts beating MSMoo and that school from Ohio, I guarantee he will get a raise from DB.
I was thinking more about the past. For a top notch program with tradition, we seem to pay like a mid major or one of the lower teams in the BCS. All I hear from the MSM, and I know they may know nothing, is : Oh Michigan is waiting for the buyout to drop to fire RR, or I am not sure Michigan is willing to pay for JH or Miles. They make it out to be as if we are saving the last dime when our projected surplus is $16MM for the year, which correct me if I am wrong, is more than most schools.
will be praising Hoke like he is the sweetest thing since sliced bread if he ends up succeeding. That being said Hoke obviously is not who DB was targeting when making these statements. What I got out of the presser introducing Hoke as the new HC, DB made it sound like coaches he had in mind when interviewed didn't seem like the right fit. That doesn't mean he wasn't willing to put the money out there for a high profile HC. Maybe he liked LM up until the interview who knows?
We just got a coach that didn't even ask what this job was going to pay him before he accepted it! How many coaches would do that? That's dedication. Isn't that what we want? Plus he has the entire team staying! Obviously they like him! So it would be in your best interest to support him or just shut your big YAPPER
The coach we should want the most is the one that wants to be here the most?
Well, if that's the case, I know a guy who's 45 and has been going to games since he was a toddler. He's got season tickets and cheers like crazy at every home game. He always says he knows better than those "stupid coaches" and rants about how they're overpaid and don't appreciate the job they have. He says he'd give his left nut to be the coach and wouldn't demand a salary. Now that's the coach we need, right? Right? /s
and you needed to hire a guy to manage it, and you interviewed a guy who said "I don't care how much you pay me I will absolutely take the job," would you necessarily view that as a point in his favor? Or would you think it sounded a little desperate?
If Dave Brandon did, in fact, interview Jon Gruden, Jim Harbaugh, Les Miles, and other big names. Perhaps we should take him at his word that they might have been more about "themselves" than they were about "The Team" as he stated? While he was prepared to dig deep into the cauphers, there wasn't a need to because he found the big names unfit for the position.
The same goes for coordinators and assistants. Perhaps Hoke isn't looking for a big splash at DC because he is going to oversee the D and he prefers to groom a less known coach into that roll (you know, build a coaching tree, develop internal sustainability within the program, etc.)
for a fake mustache but not to pay me? Don't make a fool out of me man. I want my money.
Someone needs to put Stewie on the case.
I havent heard much about who it will be other then rumors about Bedford. This seems to be taking quite a while, are they even speaking with Shannon or any other "Big Shots"? I would think that for recruiting Hoke would want to get the staff assembled quickly.
I'd bet money that Dave Brandon told Hoke that money was not an object when hiring assistants and he can hire whomever he pleases. Hoke goes out and assembles a team of very good assistants that he has worked with before, whom coincidentally don't cost all that much. It's not like Dave Brandon is going to tell Hoke "You have to hire assistants whose market value is over $500k even if you have never worked with them or don't get along with them."
not saying the head coach isn't important, he is, but I heard on the radio, a good point, your two coordinators are like your vice presidents and most successful companies have serious talent at the VP level, given the choice I'd rather pay the coordinators top rated if that meant having a coach who didn't take top money, rather than a 4M coach with two $250K coordinators.
Fuck out of here you hater. Yousle me sick. Five BH a chance!
Further threads in "Why the board should be shut down after 2:00 a.m."
He struck out on everyone who was worth extra money, so we went with the fat guy who used to coach here with the losing record.