Where does Tate go from here?
While the offensive line got owned today, and there were tons of contributing factors to the loss (CATCH THE DAMN BALL, turnovers, missed tackles etc) clearly Tate struggled again, looked lost at times and also struggled with game and clock management. Can we chalk his performance up to true freshman struggles which did not appear until recently, or something else?
IMO that is what we can attribute it to. The first few games it was likely teams did not gameplan specifically for him, but now that his weaknesses are apparent on film, good teams plan for that. I think he'll be fine, but am interested in other opinions because frankly, I was a bit baffled today.
October 24th, 2009 at 8:10 PM ^
I think Tate still is hurt, and it showed later in the game on some of his throws. The velocity wasn't there, and neither was the touch. Maybe that's just an excuse, but he has looked average since Notre Dame.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:17 PM ^
That's what I've been thinking. I've repeatedly heard that an AC joint injury doesn't heal unless rested, which isn't going to happen during the season. So if anything it might get worse if it continues to take a beating.
I think he's more hurt than we're being lead to believe. Letting it out that Tate has a somewhat significant injury would not help our team because it would only empower our opponents both from a psychological standpoint and a game planning standpoint.
So the injury, perhaps not being too comfortable in the cold rainy weather, better competition, disappointing O line play, and that reality that he is still a true freshman combine to give us what we saw today. Hopefully things will not be this bad in coming weeks.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:38 PM ^
was quoted as saying this week that he had "snap" on his throws in practice for the first time since the injury.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:04 PM ^
Letting opponents know you are injured is an invitation for them to attack your weak spot. I think we have been seeing a 70 percent version of Forcier since the injury, and the concussion didn't help things, either.
That is why depth at QB is so important, and why DRob won't be changing positions anytime soon.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:18 PM ^
Yes and players and coaches are completely honest about injuries to their star players. Who do think is right, the medical experts or the 19 year old who has to face flesh-eating linebackers?
Watching him throw and how he carried himself on the field today, especially after he had taken a few shots, it's clear he is hurting
October 24th, 2009 at 8:10 PM ^
He goes up.
October 24th, 2009 at 8:15 PM ^
It's also about the Jimmy and Joes. Good defenses will be able to get to Forcier with 4 or 5 thus causing pressure. Also our receivers are very pedestrian and have trouble getting open even when the line does going time. So a defense has a choice, they can bring the pressure, or they can sit in coverage and be successful at both.
Therefore, defenses can be content knowing their secondary will hold up to our recievers and then it is a matter of applying pressure to Forcier and insuring he' is kept in the pocket. PSU was spying a lb today.
He had some bad throws and he had a bunch of drops. I felt myself becoming Henri, the otter of ennui today, about the rest of the season
October 24th, 2009 at 8:17 PM ^
One thing that has changed since the ND game is a lot of zone coverage is being played against Tate and he is not finding soft spots along with his WR's.
Teams are not blitzing as much as ND did and basicly dropping 7 guys into coverage most of the time and this keeps tate in the pocket and you add in the fact that our receivers cant seem to get open and it pretty much limits his options.
I truly believe that the lack of combo routes his hurting the passing game in general. Everything just seems to be real generic routes and that is easy to defend.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:19 PM ^
I'm glad someone said something about the routes. I remember last year Brian had linked to someone criticizing Rich Rod's passing game design. I try to pay attention to it during the game, but don't exactly know what to look for. And I haven't read the UFRs play-by-play, so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned this season.
The lack of pass protection also doesn't help.
October 24th, 2009 at 8:24 PM ^
To answer the question in your topic header, it's obvious:
to a house party, to get some ass.
October 24th, 2009 at 8:25 PM ^
Where do these stairs go?
They go up!
October 24th, 2009 at 8:25 PM ^
Putting in a nice movie quote.
October 24th, 2009 at 8:25 PM ^
deep ball, i see no heart in trying to get back into things....
defense did great at times, but the secondary is garbage and they arent getting better
still have a chance at 9-3 or 5-7
October 24th, 2009 at 8:33 PM ^
I basically agree with your observations about Tate. Defenses know how to defend him, and he is still a freshman. Yes, a very good one, but he is still young and will be inconsistent.
The lack of WR talent is glaring right now, and I think people who complained about the WR-palooza (like myself) may need to reevaluate our complaints a bit. This offense needs guys who can get open in the soft areas of the zone or take the ball deep if the defense sags in. Right now, there isn't a real homerun threat on the offense save maybe Odoms, and even that is a stretch. I think that Forcier will look better the next few weeks against weaker defenses, and I still think it will make strides moving forward.
October 24th, 2009 at 8:38 PM ^
We have lots of young, exciting and talented receivers, but the problem is it's talent that remains unrealized at this point.
October 24th, 2009 at 8:45 PM ^
But at some point, maybe that talent isn't being realized because it is a bit overrated or simply not there. I'm not saying the WRs are horrible, but they lack of separation and the inability to hold onto the ball is pretty bad right now. Sure, Stokes should be good and Hemingway and Odoms will improve as they play more, but at some point they need to show something more than they have thus far.
October 24th, 2009 at 8:35 PM ^
Looking back at the games in which we have played in bad weather, Tate has not looked good in any of them, outside of the end of the MSU game (which I like to attribute more to SPARTY NO! than anything else). He is from Southern California, and has surely never played in games where it is 40 degrees and wet. While I know this is not a valid excuse, it undoubtedly affects the way he throws and handles the ball. He does not seem as comfortable, and when that happens, he cannot get into a rhythm. I have faith that this will change over time, but I have a hard time thinking that anyone could say that they don't feel any worse about our chances in games in which the weather is poor going forward.
What are everyone's thoughts on this? Just a bad excuse, or do you think this holds a bit of water? (no pun intended)
October 24th, 2009 at 8:42 PM ^
I agree that the weather is probably new to him, but he wasn't the one dropping passes, having snaps thrown by him or at his feet, or losing the ball on first contact. I think Forcier has some growing up to do and becoming acclimated to the weather is part of that, but this has offense has struggled across the board in bad weather. I actually think Forcier's bigger problem is that he is injured and simply not capable of playing as well as he did earlier this year.
October 24th, 2009 at 8:46 PM ^
At this point the pocket passing is the problem, primarily due to bad pass protection and Tate's inexperience. Teams know what angles to take at him when he's outside the pocket and he can no longer damage them big like he did early on in the season.
Tate and the OL have a long way to go before we can compete with a caliber DL that Penn St. fronts and will continue to front for years to come. On a good note, you'd only expect our OL and Tate's pocket presence to improve.
Now if we could only get our tight ends to catch the damn ball...
October 24th, 2009 at 9:18 PM ^
For the record, I don't think clock management falls on him. He got them inside the 10 with like 30 seconds left. Why the coaches call for a spike on 3rd down with 15 seconds left is beyond me.....you need exactly 1 second left on 4th down, so calm down and get a play in, run a pass play to the endzone, tell him to throw it away if it isn't there. That's not on Tate.
Of course, as a buddy of mine says, it's a moo point. We didn't exactly lose the game on the last possession of the half.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:38 PM ^
I don't think the coaches called for a spike, from where I was sitting it looked like RR was livid when Tate came off the field.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:58 PM ^
If that's the case, then I retract, and yeah, that's not a great call by Tate. I was watching on TV and it looked like Tate looked to the sideline, and based on the camera on RR he was not worked up after the play that I saw, which led me to believe that that's what the staff called for him to do.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:26 PM ^
On TV it was Minor telling him to spike the ball.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:18 PM ^
I think he was more livid about the fumble just before that. That looked like what Tate was trying to explain to him... why he fumbled... and yeah, he was complaining that the snap was low (which it was... again).
October 25th, 2009 at 1:25 AM ^
That's what RR appeared to be upset about. You could see RR getting on Tate, then Tate doing fumble motions, then RR letting it go.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:40 PM ^
That was the real indication of how the rest of the season is likely to play out. We're good enough to beat clearly inferior teams (if only just) but not good enough to beat good to very good teams without a healthy Forcier and Molk. Until the 4th qtr at Iowa, we didn't play particularly well on offense. Dare I say it, we were pretty much owned.
All of that's immaterial, however. The issue now is where we finish. With 4 games left, 6-6, 7-5, are more likely than 8-4,(I know 9-3 is theoretically possible, but not realistic). Sure, we play the Buckeyes at home, but it appears that Tressell may be letting Pryor play to his strengths. Purdue is showing signs of life, and we have Wisconsin and Illinois on the road.
I'm not sure that 7-5 gets us an automatic bowl bid. There are several teams in the B10 that will probably finish with better records and get the gauranteed invites.
And that would just totally suck.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:40 PM ^
That was the real indication of how the rest of the season is likely to play out. We're good enough to beat clearly inferior teams (if only just) but not good enough to beat good to very good teams without a healthy Forcier and Molk. Until the 4th qtr at Iowa, we didn't play particularly well on offense. Dare I say it, we were pretty much owned.
All of that's immaterial, however. The issue now is where we finish. With 4 games left, 6-6, 7-5, are more likely than 8-4,(I know 9-3 is theoretically possible, but not realistic). Sure, we play the Buckeyes at home, but it appears that Tressell may be letting Pryor play to his strengths. Purdue is showing signs of life, and we have Wisconsin and Illinois on the road.
I'm not sure that 7-5 gets us an automatic bowl bid. There are several teams in the B10 that will probably finish with better records and get the gauranteed invites.
And that would just totally suck.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:57 PM ^
I didn't think he played that badly. Our pass protection was horrendous and Tate was regularly flushed, and even when he did have time, his receivers regularly let him down with drive-killing drops. Yes, he forced some passes into coverage and tried to run when he shouldn't have, but he's done that all season. We just didn't pay as much attention when we were 4-0.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:58 PM ^
“I can say it a thousand times, I think we’re beating ourselves,” Forcier said. “Just reads that I’m not making that I need to be making. A lot of it’s preparation and a lot of that’s on me. I just got to prepare myself better for next week.”
http://www.annarbor.com/sports/penn-state-dominates-reeling-michigan-35…
One game at a time....
October 24th, 2009 at 10:09 PM ^
I thought that Tate played very well in the first half. I might even go so far as to call it "great". He had numerous awesome on target throws such as the bullet to Matthews towards the end of the first half and the pass to Koger that split the coverage and hit him in the hands about 25 yards downfield. I am pretty much ignoring the entire second half. I'm not worried about Tate at all. Long term or short term.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:28 PM ^
I think that we're going to see the ability difference between DRob and Tate get smaller and smaller. Tate is struggling in every game now, same as DRob. If DRob has more upside than Tate, I think the battle for QB next year will be very close.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:06 PM ^
"Where does Tate go from here?"
Illinois.
October 25th, 2009 at 1:40 AM ^
I'd hope that he would go to practice, and maybe some classes before Illinois ;)
October 24th, 2009 at 11:50 PM ^
field of play with no timeouts left,didn't want to get sacked. Tate's play has fallen off a little, has he lost his mojo? or is he playing hurt-I believe he is not 100%. Anyone else notice that they didn't throw down the field? Like a pitcher in baseball, sometimes you have to waste a pitch to set up your better pitch. Michigan never threaten PSU by throwing down field, the corners moved up and played tighter coverage. PSU never felt this threat today. Now the corners start blitzing, linebacker shadows Tate and you see the results. Tate is not getting much help either. A center that still is having a problem snapping the ball, recievers dropping the ball and a sieve for an offensive line. Hey Coach Rod-WTF, get someone that wants to catch the ball on the field. How a guy plays in practice is not always how they play in a game. Fundamentals, fundamentals,fundamentals........with alittle help Tate will find his mojo. Tate might want to simplify his cadence-Mooseman is really struggling with it.
October 25th, 2009 at 6:17 AM ^
I'm worried about the kid's shoulder. I'd actually like to see him sit out and get healthy. Right now, his well being is more important than W/L. We're not contending for a conference championship, so let Tate rest and let's get D.R. some solid reps for a few weeks.
Let's be honest, I don't think anyone reasonably expected us to be world beaters this year and we will finish with a better record than last season. There is no need to run this kid into the ground and risk further, more permanent damage to his body...Sam McGuffie anyone?
The risk outweighs the reward.
Rest Tate, play Denard and let's see if we can't get back on track.
Concerning Tate's future...it looks pretty bright to me. UofM's future looks bright as well.
October 25th, 2009 at 11:02 AM ^
We won't get back on track if we play Denard.
October 25th, 2009 at 11:48 AM ^
he played terrible against two very good defenses. i think you'll see a much better Forcier next week.