When will OSU fans stop...
using the argument "he does all this charity stuff so he must be a good person, therefore he didn't do X"? Jim Tressel might have done lots of charity work, but so does Michael Vick. Does that make him a good person? Absolutely not. He's a bastard, and we all know it. I do charity work with Big Brothers Big Sisters of Kentuckiana, but I'm still a dickhead. Obviously if Jim Tressel were truly a good person he'd have outed those kids the moment he heard about the allegations.
This argument isn't valid. John Simon's dad is now saying that his kid is a good kid and he's on the straight and narrow. Obviously not if he's implicated in this.
I understand that OSU fans aren't bright, but at some point a person has to realize that doing charity work does not equal being a good person. Sometimes people do it to make up for the fact that they aren't good people.
Im not trying to be that guy but this whole subject is getting old.
I disagree. It is something to keep us occupied until the season starts.
Im just waiting till the ncaa rules on it, and lets face it osu fans will never change we can point ouit the obvious all day everyday but they'll never admit it.
...beaten to death on Brian's front pager. My guess is that there won't be anything more enlightening said here that wasn't already said there.
That said, go ahead and give it a shot if you must. You can't make this dead horse any more dead than it already is.
Challenge accepted
TP has 12 Cars, WHHAAATTTT!!!! NOOOOOoOOO!!!!!
Rings and helmets for TATTs, Cash, and Stinky Weed NOOOOOOO!!!!! WHATTTT!!!!
I'm not sure why OSU fans' opinions matter. On this, or any other issue.
Because Ohio is the 7th most populous state with 11.5 million residents?
because they have more votes in the House we should start posting more about what their fanbase is discussing? the opinion of people following a team is not news. the actions of the team is.
Don't hate us because Michigan is just shy of ten million residents. Size matters in matters of State, and economics.
Well actually the trend is pretty reversed in economics at the moment. Small states FTW in the past few years; I'd rather be in the legislature in UT or CO than NY or CA at the moment.
Also, the fifth most populous state is clearly much better than the seventh (although even in good financial times I wouldn't be caught dead near Springfield, I don't have the stomach for jail at this point).
And a guy named Boner is the Speaker of the House?
Leave our Boner out of this! Now that horrible Representative Wiener from NY, he's another story altogether.
Hehe...He said wiener...
"I do charity work with Big Brothers Big Sisters of Kentuckiana, but I'm still a dickhead."
haha I am the same. I do stuff with my church all the time to help teenagers and needy people - and I am dumfounded of how much of an asshole I am (so is my wife - and she verbalizes this very well).
This response wins "MGoPost of the Day" award.
Personally, I think there should be a level of giving that, when surpassed, automatically redefines a--holes and d-ckheads as great people. For example, if you give at least 33% of your time/money to charity, I think all should recognize you as a great person notwithstanding you actually being an a--hole deep down.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who both loved and identified with that line.
huzzah
huzzah
I blame the new phone and it being my first time using the Android app.
I think it has something to do with the grieving process. Given their irrational attachment to the man as a sort of State Father Figure, and given they believed in this guy so damn much, and to have it come out that they all believed a lie would probably be like having someone die. Stage 1? It ain't just a river in Egypt. Stage 2? RAGE!!!!! That's where I've seen most fans in Columbus is somewhere in the scale of those two stages.
that the Israelis and Palestinians decide that they are a lot more alike than they are different and start settling their differences with hummus-making contests.
This will never happen. Ohioans may at some date realize that they are wrong.
Things are getting strange and dark - almost a little bit cult-ish - down here.
Does this qualify as an official "emo whine post?" If so, watch out OP!
To the substance, Tressel violated NCAA laws but its not like he violated any criminal laws. From all accounts, he's a good person and was trying to help his kids, which is admirable in principle (except he screwed the university in so doing). It sounds like his priorities were straight if he cared only about helping his players have a great college experience. That's not to say that his professional priorities were in order . . .
Yeah, that's true, but the most disappointing thing to me (and a lot of other people, from what I've read and heard) is that he claimed to be someone who had high moral values for himself and yet he blatantly turned a blind eye to all of this stuff. And those moral values, if he is really genuine in what he believes, should have held just as much importance in his eyes as NCAA laws, criminal laws, etc. It's just a disappointing example of where someone's actions did not reflect his (claimed) worldview.
That's all true, but I guess the analysis depends on what perspective you have. From the people supporting Tressel's viewpoints, Tressel is an outstanding man. He had their best interests in mind in all that he did. So, if you value making sure that young men succeed above all, then he really is a great man. However, that clearly cannot be the only consideration for a head coach. As a lawyer, I can't believe that I'm saying this, but adherence to NCAA rules is not necessarily "immoral." Its wrong, but I can't say that it is immoral. Maybe that's just semantics, but there it is.
I disagree. He signed a contract that stated he needed to adhere to those rules, and he didn't. That, to me, is when it hits immorality.
In our cases it isn't rying to negate that fact that the person is a cheat, but I have seen people make a huge deal about people doing charity work on this site as well.
I think charity work is great, but I also think people need to keep things in context as well. When we hear about athletes and coaches who get paid millions of dollars per year giving a couple hunder thousand dollars to charity, it is like average joe's who make a normal salary giving a few hundred dollars. Is is great that they gave it to a charity? Of course it is. Does it make them a saint who does more for life on earth than any other human? Not by a long shot.
Anyway, that has always been a pet peeve of mine. Not to mention the fact that giving to charities is a major tax break as well...at least in Canada it is.
Sure, he helped out the economy, but he set back the cause of weird little mustaches by 500 years . . . .
Does doing good things (like donating time and money to a charity) make one a good person? Does simply avowing good ideals and intentions make one a good person?
Jim Tressl may actually want to support some charities and actually believe in them, but that sort of thing is easier than when he was actually confronted with his own ethical problem. Report TP and all of the other members of the team who were in violation (back before the start of the 2010-2011 season) and watch them be suspended and probably the whole season go down the drain even before the first game, or go down the other path...leading to today.
The SI article and other news since that time, suggests Tressl has been facing this choice many times in his coaching career and has chosen the other path... all leading to now.
On the other hand,....John Wayne Gacy also liked to dress up as a clown and entertain children...
I'm doing charity work tomorrow. This is solely done to balance the karmic scales. What's really important to note is taht on Sunday I'll BBQ puppies just for the fun of it. Seriously! I'm not even going to eat the puppies I just want to BBQ them. But its all good because of the charity work I'm doing saturday.
The great thing about facts and evidence is that they can silence deniers and suck a lot of emotion out of a contentious situation.
All of these father's stepping up and saying "my son wouldn never do something like that" and "he's a good boy" have already been duped before they lined up attorneys for a fight. Their son may not have exchange memorabilia for tats. Great deduction. Now what? Uh-oh, he didn't get tats, but maybe he received something else. What else?
SI is standing firmly behind it's story, which means they're not afraid of a libel suit and they've got a little more than some circumstantial phone conversations or ad hoc interviews with drug dealers.
Do these parents seriously think that this was just a reckless smear job? They clearly don't know this SI writer. He doesn't exactly eff around with things and then slap it down on paper. This is not his first scathing investigation and will not be his last.
My suggestion would be for these parents to sit down for a real heart-to-heart with their sons before they blow their retirement money on attorneys fees only to have their son admit months later with a stupid bucktooth grin on their face: "Oops, sorry dad. I forgot to tell ya about that part.....".
The attorneys those parents will be hiring are plaintiff attorneys, who work on a contingency fee of 1/3 of whatever they win or settle, so it shouldn't cost the parents anything, they just wouldn't get to keep all their hopeful winnings, not that they would win.
.....burning down Columbus?
Hold on, why would giving to charity make you a good person? That doesn't make sense to me. Nothing wrong with helping people out, but it isn't virtuous, per se. And also, why is Michael Vick a bad person?!
That's just the way it goes with a fanbase looking to defend one who some might label "indefensible". When the RR battles were in full swing, nearly every defense of RR included a note about his good work with the Mealer family. "He's really a good guy" usually comes in when all else is lost. In the end of the day, fans are going to latch onto whatever positives they can find.
I think the more important question is, when will they stop pooping in coolers?
the day after they stop burning couches . . .
or coaches....
You are on your high
horse. a dead horse that you are
beating. Go Away!
Delusion sauce. OSU fans put it on everyting they eat.
Just read The Doc Saturday piece reporting that several of the players parent's are disputing the SI claims. One of the comments on the article stated "Things aren't looking good for SI right now".
"My little Terrell would never trade stolen helmets and shoulder pads for weed and tattoos. That awful man must have made everything up."
Quite a dispute we have here. I'm sure SI will turn out to be real villains when the smoke clears . . . .
the helmets or shoulder pads were stolen. The athletic department never file a claim that the equipment was stolen .... NEVER. Some may say that this is odd ... but it simply displays that the entire athletic department was "in" on this. This is going to be the new NCAA paradigm defining lack of institutional control !!!
Burn baby burn. Remember they choose to live by the "sword", so now they die from it.
Go Blue !
Taking something that is not yours and selling or trading it is stealing. No way around it. It does not matter if some equipment manager is standing there, turning a blind eye. That does not mean that it is not stolen, it means that there is an accomplice. Unless he took those items rightfully from OSU, the owner, they were stolen. We all know that the proper channels absolutely did not allow for him to take shoulder pads or helmets, thus they were stolen. While the gold pants and similar personal items were rightfully his (though he told not to sell them and he agreed not to sell him), clearly he took OSU property and sold it for his own profit.
Remember, the only other possibility is that Tressel, the compliance department, AD Smith et al, gave him permission to take these items, and I think we can all agree that is unlikely. While it is possible that some low level individuals looked the other way as he took these items, it is incredibly unlikely that they were not stolen, in the traditional sense of the word.
you're missing the point ... which is tsio's equipment manager knew they were missing, but either didn't report it or ignored it. Either way the athletic department had to buy more equipment to replace the items taken. Do you think tsio just orders more helmets for no reason whatsoever ?
Ask yourself, if you know something was taken (stolen) wouldn't you report it ? The point is the athletic department KNEW they were re-ordering helmets and pads, but never ever reported that the missing items were stolen ... ie - they knew they were gone, and they probably knew why.
This entire scheme goes so far past tressel .... and it is becoming more and more obvious with each day that passes.
Go Blue !
If your point was that since OSU had to buy more helmets and shoulder pads than they should have, that somehow that info floated up to Tressel or whoever, no I really wasn't thinking about that. If I get what you mean, you are saying that if Tressel allowed more equipment to be purchased, he was tacitly endorsing the whole business, or at least deliberately turning as blind an eye as possible. But I think we are disagreeing on one thing that is somewhat key - you think (from the sound of it) that whoever watched the equipment go out the door was senior enough to allow it, whereas I think they probably were not. Also, the fact that the stuff wasn't reported stolen does not mean that it was not stolen.
I agree that there was definitely an entire atmosphere of noncompliance, but I don't agree that Pryor's actions were not thievery. I think he just figured that nobody would ever call him on it. We've all had co-workers take more pens than they should from the supply closet, for their personal use. How many of us report that? Most people just let that slide, and though these items were much more expensive, it sounds like everyone there just let it slide. Doesn't mean it isn't stealing though.