When enough is enough and when its not
I really don't think the comparison translates, because Amaker's main problem was an inability to bring in talent. I think as a whole RR brings in and will continue to bring in talent (outside of the short term lack of talent on defense).
I have heard several people say that getting rid of RR will set the program back 5 years, and while I don't agree that RR should be fired at this juncture, he should definitely get a 3rd year. But at what point does this become a situation that just doesn't fit, and instead of spinning the wheels for another 2 or 3 years do you cut bait and start over. And saying that turnarounds can't happen in 2 years is simply incorrect. Saban at Alabama, Meyer at Florida, even Tressel at O$U. Remember that OSU team went 6-6 in 1999 and 9-4 in 2000. They then went 7-5 in his first year with a huge "lack of talent". I think next year is huge for RR, this team has to finish strong and go to a new years day bowl, otherwise its time to consider the possibility that RR might not be the right fit.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:14 PM ^
RR does not wear turtlenecks therefore his is no Amaker.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:16 PM ^
nothing was more annoying than your coach not wearing a tie, when everyone else in the country wears a tie.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:20 PM ^
assuming no "I quit!'s" and assuming D. Warren goes NFL, Michigan probably has:
8 Starters Back on Offense
QB Forcier
SR Odoms
WR Hemingway
TE Koger
RT Huyge
C Molk
LG Schilling
LT Dorrestein (?)
8+ starters on Defense
DL Ryan van Bergen
NT Mike Martin
OLB Craig Roh
MLB Obi Ezeh
WLB Jonas Mouton
CB Troy Woolfolk
SS Jordan Kovacs
FS Michael Williams
Justin Turner, Vlad Emilien and A. Whitty would be nice additions to the secondary next year, but who the hell knows?
The secondary coaching and player development has been a noticeable problem for several years, and that's before we get into the recruiting fiasco.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:23 PM ^
1) Your title makes no sense. "Enough is enough" is a tautology, and it is impossible, by definition, for "enough" ever to be "not enough."
2) 58%
When will people finally get the huge significance of this?
At this point, the talent RR is bringing in is not what's relevant to our losses and poor defense. It's the talent Lloyd didn't bring in and didn't retain.
3) Once again, re. 2 year turnarounds, 58%.
Were Meyer and Tressel facing the dire situation on defense that RR has faced?
RR detractors say that RR supporters can't just continually point at the bare cupboard, but how long will they continue to ignore it? It IS very significant.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:23 PM ^
...have 4 full years to see what they can do with what they have.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:27 PM ^
Especially in this case - totally new system, new personnel requirements. I expect next year to be a little better than this year, and the team to be good in 2011.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:24 PM ^
'cause our D will continue to be a BIG problem for years to come. I used to think that an Offense scoring 30-35 a game should ensure that you win 90% of the time. With our D next year, I'm thinking it will have to be 40-45 a game.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:38 PM ^
Re: Meyer and Tressel.
Those Florida and OSU teams were loaded with talent but lead by incompetent coaches. Lloyd Carr was a much better coach than either Zook or Cooper, but he just failed to bring in top-notch players toward the end of his tenure. That last senior class with Henne, Hart, and Long was the last great haul for him, and you get a sense that this team would have muddled through 7-5, 6-6, 5-7 seasons even if he had stuck around. I still think this team could win one of the next two, and then who knows. 5-7 would certainly be a down year, but it is still an improvement over last year when the team was out of games by the third quarter. And for the first time in RR's tenure, there will be the same OC and DC from the year before. That will be bigger than people think.
November 7th, 2009 at 6:06 PM ^
When is enough enough? When you lose to Navy at home twice in a row after reeling in three straight top-10 recruiting classes.
November 7th, 2009 at 6:56 PM ^
I would say that at this point nobody is wanting to say exactly what the line marked enough is but I would say that right now enough is not here yet. I think we have to give the guy a minimum of 3 years. I think next year will be the year for RR to get it done. I know I am sick and tired of watching my beloved boys in blue get beat by teams that have no business beating us.