Obviously a lot of us, or nearly all of us, lost faith in this bball team midway through the Big Ten slate, so the question is, what game got you back on the bandwagon? For myself, it was the win at the Hall of Horrors as not only was it a decisive double digit win at an unspeakably hard place for us to win at, but it was a potential letdown game after the pummeling gave our main rival the game before
When did this team win you back?
like I've said; John B is one of the greatest coaches in the country. Besides I've made the same mistake too many times in the past.
I've been behind the team from the start. I think however, that this was the point people began to come back to the team.
I was a Fire Be-liner. There was no one moment when I turned. I listened to his comments on WTKA after the games. He seemed genuinely upset that they didn't take the ball to the basket more often. That told me he was trying to change the offense even though it wasn't evident.
Once the defense picked up, it was obvious his hiring of assisstants was paying off. I think it was unrealistic to assume they could turn around a defense immediately just by adding a new coach. That was my mistake.
The other thing that I can't explain is I don't remember seeing that stretch of games where the entire team shoots 28% from 3 while refusing to take the ball inside. This team doesn't just take a lot of 3s, they are consistently making shots. They always had games where they shot well but it never continued this long.
They really started out in that tournament at the start of the season where they beat SMU and the defense looked fantastic. I was surprised when they regressed, but if they hadn't started out with such a complete game it probably wouldn't have been surprising at all.
Put me in the never camp.
John Beilein is probably one of the best coach Michigan has hired in any sport. The idiot fans are fickle and want coaches fired after practically every loss, and I pay no attention to them.
Michigan is lucky to have such a fine gentleman represent ther school.
We were on a semi-roll and playing the Big 10 leaders and their phenomenal 7 footers just spelled out paint dominance and a big L for us. Not a good match up for us. But we finally played a complete game and won by double digits. The team finally felt like it could play with anyone. I was reeled in again after that win. It was huge for our confidence and tournament resume.
Beilein got my attention when he got his kids to play for him. That was during the Sparty blowout and the win at Assembly Hall. He did some of his best work in this Big Ten Tournament. Showed us all what he can do when the program is hitting on all cyclinders. I think this basketball is what was expected from this team and what should be expected from this program. I think the inability to recruit as well as he coaches is what burdens Beilein the most. Michigan should get the pick of the litter and there are holes in the roster. My issue with Beilein has always been our lack of ability to land top tier talent with consistency and our lack of presence in the city of Detroit and Chicago. We are geographically positioned to be a top 10 program. Derrick Walton is all the more reason and the latest example of why we should be recruiting Detroit and the greater area. Kids with "Dog" in them is what drives this program and in a Beilein system...those kids can really thrive. The 3 star settling and shying away city league type players is what frustrates a lot of people. Watching the Trevon Bluits of the world settle at Xavier over Michigan is where a lot of the frustration originated from. The losses on the recruiting front are hard to stomach and head scratching. It begs the Michigan fan the question: "What could we do with top flight talent?" I think this program under Beilein could win it all if we recruited to our potential. And it's not a Michigan thing....because Harbaugh recruits top 5 classes in football.
Beilein will not cheat in order to get top recruits. Simply as that. In football its a little easier to get top talent without literally giving them cash. Although football still loses guys every year becuase they won't match the SEC cash machine. And yes i'm not naive enough to think Michigan has never supplied any athlete with benefits. The differance is many schools are organized from the Head coach down in order to pay players. At Michigan the coaches and staff go out of their way to avoid paying players. It is just not a level playing field. Allowing schools to pay players would help Michigan for sure.
Allowing schools to pay the players would be the great equalizer for us.
But even still, I have a hard time believing that schools like Purdue are out there blatantly cheating. We should be able to recruit at least as well as a program like Purdue.
I have a hard time believing that schools like Purdue are out there blatantly cheating
Why, because Painter has the haircut of an honest man?
Frankly, the way they flipped Swanigan seemed a little fishy.
Caleb played his HS ball here. Learn the story and you will think much different about "the flip".
Well, I'm not from Indiana, but just from reading a Purdue blog recently after we played them, it seems that they've made a few accommodations for Swanigan that seem out of the ordinary, even for an athlete. Apparently, he was allowed to live off-campus as a freshman, and takes only online classes. Those may not be NCAA rules violations but seem a bit sketchy all the same - they aren't things that Michigan does (even under Fisher, guys like Webber had to live in the dorms) - and make me wonder if Painter is willing to bend the rules beyond that.
Takes only online classes? Now I won't judge but give him a literacy test or ask who is actually taking his classes. Oh he lives with a graduate student who just happens to share a computer? I suppose I am judging without knowing but seems like a massive possibility to cheat there.
Yep, MSU probably would have had him play the 5, but he wanted to play the 4. Also, MSU wouldn't allow him to live off campus. He didn't want to live in the dorms because he has eating issues and thought dorm food would be unhealthy for him. At Purdue, he lives alone in a one-bedroom apartment near the arena.
We do recruit as well as Purdue. Swanigan can be considered their McGary, except he's been healthy. Swanigan and Haas are the only top 100 players on their team. In fact we probably recruit better than them as a rule. I know that's not a huge barrier but still.
The key is not so much as recruiting top 30 players consistently, it's not going to happen under Beilein and quite frankly won't happen as easy as some think it will with a new coach either. The key is finding the right players in the top 50-150 range. That's where everyone gets 90% of their roster outside of Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNC. Wagner was 114, Wilson was 122, Walton was 44. Then dip into the top 30 every once in a while for a McGary type and that's how you get another 2013 team.
We are due for another instant difference maker McGary-level recruit.
I think it comes down to more than just flat out paying players in basketball. The one-and-done type talent are not coming in to play school. They are only showing up for their required layover prior to going pro. It is pretty obvious that Beilein has no interest in that. He is going to bring guys in to teach them his system while emphasizing fundamentals. At this stage in his career, I don't see him switching to AAU style, And-1 mixtape type ball with a different roster every year.
Beilein is squeaky clean (one of the reasons I love him), and college basketball, most decidedly, is not.
Basketball at Michigan is not analogous to football. Michigan is, and always will be, a football school, with a storied history, the largest stadium, and probably millions of dedicated supporters.
Michigan basketball, on the other hand, is #2, in every respect. There's just not nearly the same level of emphasis or support. The Crisler Center is now a pretty nice venue, but it's still just 13k and often not close to full. It's probably not an exaggeration to say that Michigan football has 10x the support of basketball.
I've said it before - there's not a single school that is "blue blood" at both football and basketball. Florida had a very brief time at the top of both sports, and Sparty and Wiscy have recently had a brief period of success at both. Those are short-term, fluky events.
The big-time basketball schools, without exception, are not big-time football schools. UCLA, Ohio State, and Michigan probably come as close as anyone to being good at both sports.
All that said, it's fair to say Coach Beilein is not a top recruiter. He is a top developer of talent and a premier offensive strategist.
Beilein has built a winning program here. He's done it without cheating, and represents our school with class. He never lost me.
And it's not a Michigan thing....because Harbaugh recruits top 5 classes in football.
I think it is a Michigan thing, because people also complained about Amaker's recruiting. Post-Ed Martin, we don't want to play the dirty game anymore. It is what it is. I bet people will end up complaining about Beilein's successor's recruiting, too.
Amaker's recruiting was pretty good, he just couldn't develop players as well as Beilein does.
Amaker finished second for a lot of recruits, often in seemingly dodgy circumstances. People grumbled about his recruiting (as well as his player development).
Spring break #gradstudentlife
The "blue collar" game when they wore the away blue unis at home to make a point.
I thought that was a great motivational move.
It won me back because it showed they get it . . . they were playing too soft, they knew it, and they were going to do something about it.
That always frustrated me with Brady Hoke, when he just seemed too complacent with poor results. Where was the urgency?
Well, I felt the sense of urgency during the "blue collar" game. It was the turning point of the season.
For the first time since the 2013-14 season. I had something to believe in about Michigan basketball. Granted, it did flummox me when I saw Northwestern deal that soul crushing defeat live in person, but I knew once this team decided that even after a plane crash, they were playing in the BTT, it was then that this group permanently endeared themselves to me. They could lose Friday and I don't care, 2016-17 Michigan basketball will forever hold a special place in my fandom.
The loss at Wisconsin, actually. Defensive renaissaince started there. Though the Ohio State loss sorely tested my resolve.
Yep the loss at Wisconsin. Ohio St. pissed me off but it just seemd an off night and the ball unfortunately found Ohio St.'s bruisers more often than our guys...and we lost. Then truly coming back and and doing what we did to Sparty was great but going into Assembly Hall and nipping them told me these guys CAN play some truly good basketball.
Ask again Friday about 3pm.
......it started when I was told stories about this guy from Muskegon called Oosterbaan......and found out they were all true.
55-29 at halftime against State...yeah that.
Told me that they understood the situation. Their heart showed up then.
The Nebraska game at the end. I needed to see them come back from a heartbreaker at Northwestern and do it on the road, once that happened I was back on board and never so happy to be wrong, these guys have really gelled and are playing great, Hugely successful season no matter what happens in the tournament.
Michigan State is the most obvious answer. It was nice to finally shut down the "Why can't we be more like Izzo" talk at least for a little while. There were some real low points in the season, and the @Illinois game is the lowest. They completely broke us and that was when our D was playing its worst.
Besides the obvious fun of winning, it's nice to FINALLY hush up some of the Beilein haters. I know that as soon as we lose in the tournament, they'll be back, but honestly it's just fun to have every fan in the same boat at least for a little while. These people are such a fun-suck to this board which really makes the season not as fun sometimes (I always have the option of not reading, of course). I wonder if every fan base is as self-loathing as Michigan fans can be. Sports are supposed to be fun! Not every mistake is a fireable offense. The mindset of "If my team wins then that's awesome, but if they lose I'm just proven right. Sorry for having high expectations!" is exhausting.
Anyway, the answer is Michigan State
I think the lowest point was most definitely the loss to Ohio State. That moved us to 14-9 and put us all on NIT watch. For me, I'd say the turning point was winning at IU after pummeling Michigan State.
I never gave up on Beilein or the team. What changed was the team. Walton became an alpha. Irvin got healthy and started driving more. Moe stopped fouling as much. DJ started playing real defense at the 5. You could say they started believing in themselves and in each other.
I will agree that Beilein struggles to recruit at the highest level. But this year is very special and next year could be too. We MIGHT be able to finish with one great player. And get some recruiting MOJO for 2018.
What a true fan you are
woke me up.
I am an unabashed JB fan. But I have to admit that I lapsed into a semi-catatonic state during the middle of the season. I still watched every game, but was not very excited for tip-off. I live in Madison, and even admitted that I was not paying close attention to the game calendar when UM visited Madison (I normally line up tickets in advance, or at least have the date circled on the calendar).
The State game changed it all. The glimmers of hope the team provided in the midest of the slump finally crystallized. Purdue provided more mojo. Even the Northwestern loss was not devastating - I saw a completely different team than mid-season. Despite the late season rally, I did not see the 4 games in 4 days post plane crash run materlalizing. These dudes played out of their minds. And I love them for it.
The Iowa loss really pissed me off but the loss to OSU made me swear off coach B, as a fan I can't give up on the team but I gave up on the coach
not everyone was jumping off the ledge. i wasn't.
What a joke. This team has always had promise, it was only a matter of time before they started firing together
If at some point you didn't think this season was going to be a failure I'm not sure you're a fan at all, or you at least weren't watching them play.
...watch them in new york, and were basing your assessment *only* on the struggles in january, i'm not sure you're a fan etc.
did i worry that the season might be disappointing? sure. did i think it was going to be a "failure?" absolutely not. they showed too much to me in december for me to give up on the season, or on beilein.
Never missed a game.
To assume that any of us, who can call themselves lifelong Michigan fans, may have been lost enough that we needed to be won back leads me to think that maybe MGoBlog isn't the right place for you.
I was very much in the camp of finding another coach. That doesn't mean I hated the team and wanted them to lose. UM never needs to "win" me back. Hell, Beilein didn't need to win me back. I've always wanted every coach UM has ever had to be the best. I didn't hate the guy, I just erroneously deduced he had passed his prime. I was wrong and happy as hell that I was. I'll never be sorry for wanting UM to be the best.
at the Trohl Center in a game where they were hardly to blame for the loss. I'll admit I wavered slightly after the disappointing loss to OSU though.
When we waxed Purdue in Crisler I could see that we had a team that could compete with anybody when we're engaged on both ends.
Until they figured out how to play better defense. I don't know if it was Maverick's comments or the new defense finally clicking with the team but watching them play defense is tremendously better now than it was early in the B10 season.
I did give up on the Ref's after the Minnesota game at Minnesota. That was the most biased reffing I've seen in college basketball.
I won't lie, after Marquette and SMU I was thinking B1G contender and at least Sweet 16. That was obviously a bit premature, and after that Illinois loss I was not quite a fire Beileiner, but I was starting to wonder if it might be best (for both parties) to part ways.
THen, gradually my expectations started to grow again. The first major jolt fo enthusiasm was the Indiana blowout, but I kept my expectations tempered after the loss to Ohio State. I was confident we'd make the tournament after the State blowout, but I still thought it would be more similar to last year, or one of the Novak teams that pushed a high seed but ultimately fell.
Beating Purdue at home is what told me "When clicking, this team is dangerous enough to beat anybody and they're starting to click a lot more often." That's still where I'm at now.
This is a sad statement. Frankly all you bandwagoners can kick rocks. Was I annoyed with the way this team played at times? Yea, but not once did I think to stop watching and supporting the team. The fact you had to be won back is pathetic.
This again points to the fact so many of you are fans of Michigan just so you can brag. Pick a team and support them when they are shit or good. I remember sitting in Comerica Park with about 100 other fans when the Tigers were on their way to 100+ loses. That's a fan.
I am torn because I agree he has had some really good years. The issue is the kids he recruits are all hit or miss. Which leads to lot of good years, but also opens us up to awful years. If we want more consistent years it is probably better to go with another guy.
To defend Beilein he is doing what he was hired to do. Run a clean program. His bosses hired him because they wanted to clean things up. He has been successful in that and shocked people a couple of years.
Didn't mean I stopped supporting them. So yea nice try. One can make factual statements while still backing the program. My Beilein statement wasn't saying to fire him it was saying if people want a Kentucky or Duke yearly top 10 then Beilein may not be your guy.
As for Irvina dn Walton I was dead on at the time. They both were going through the motions. Walton has just came on in the last 3rd of the year.
Again none of my comments point to me saying FIRE BEILEIN or I am done with this team. Again i watch every game(DVR'd them when not home). So again solid attempt.
Sounds like backtracking to me
Thats the beauty of American. You can think what you want. At days end I know where my head was at and I know I supported this team while many here got all pissy and mad because they couldn't run to their OSU friend and shit talk them at the time.
I watch Michigan football and basketball every year regardless. But after the Illinois I game I was not feeling that great about our chances of making the tournament. After the MSU win I was thinking if we can keep up this defense we could go pretty far.
But you stuck with them right? You are a ligit fan and not a person who needed won over again. I have no issues with being down on them, but how many people came here day in and day out saying Beilein needed fired and they were done. Those are the sad people.
I think the Purdue home win brought me back, but I was still a little on edge. The overall season closing 5 game streak (including tourney) proved that they can compete at a high level.
Watching us dismantle MSU gave me hope we would reach our potential. This team shout have been playing like this most of the season.
It seemed like after the OSU game, Walton told Irvin that he is taking over the team and Irvin took a step back.. That's when they won me back.
They never lost me, but if you mean at what point did this team become a team that I thought was going to be a considerable threat - potentially - in March Madness, then it might have been the Purdue game a while back where we stomped them in a game I don't think many expected we could or should win. The low point in terms of confidence might have been after the OSU loss, and then they slowly began to find that other gear and the Purdue game sealed it for me, the thought that we could go places in the postseason.
That they had to win you back says more about you than it does about the team
I'd say they looked like they were on their way back after winning at IU, which honestly happens maybe as often as Haley's Comet showing up. But what really sold me was beating Wisconsin the first time. That night it looked like everything was really starting to click.
I understand the many that lost faith in this team. They were consistantly inconsistent. But Beileins teams over the years improve as the year goes on. Let's all enjoy the ride. This team can do some damage. Go Blue..
steadfast coach B supporter. Not every year is the greatest, but no matter the scores, he and his kids are easy to root for. The best coaches are able to navigate through adversity and improve the team. His ability to turn rocks into hidden gems is like a magic trick no one else seems to do at his level.
One can be a "true fan" and stick with his team, but still be critical of the coach (recruiting failures, roster issues, etc.) and question whether the team, as then playing, had the abiltiy to turn things around. When the team was 2/3 of the way through the season, and its deffensive efficiency numbers were in the mid 100s, it was quite fair and logical to think that it was more liklely than not that such trend would continue, and that the NIT was calling. JB does not have a history of efficient deffensive teams, and there was little evidence, at the time, to believe the new assistant's methodologies and teachings had sunk in. Can we always rely on the model of a senior point guard with a theretofore middling career (yes, injury riddled, but still) flipping a switch, not at the beginning of his senior year, but rather 2/3 of the way through? I am thrilled for DWJ, but there was little evidence to suggest that he was poised for a border-line All America finishing kick to his career. Be proud of your "I never left" mentality, and the pulled muscles you get from patting yourself on the back, but the anti-Beilien crowd was hardly jumping at shadows.
The tournament run was cool but I'd like to see them make it to the Sweet 16. A couple of wins in the real tournament would mean a little more.
I'm a big supporter of Coach Beilein and I love that his teams always get better as the season wears on. It's like the John Beilein Arc of Improvement. But this year had me frustrated for sure. After that shitty game at home vs Ohio St I reluctantly said that maybe it was time for him to retire. But I always thought the potential was there for this team and I was glad they really took control of their season and turned it around.
The one thing I constantly complained about in January and early February was that this team doesn't play hard and that was the one thing they were missing to be a good team. But I think they've figured that out now. If this team plays hard and believes in itself who knows how good they can be. GO BLUUUUUUE!!!
I watched nearly every game this year. They never "lost" me, so to speak. But this is the first season I harshly criticized Beilein.
I started raising the temp on his seat, personally. A lot of people here did. Many are lying if they say otherwise.
If we can have a thread that doesn't have the people who stuck with Beilein bragging about us who were questioning the program. As though you guys are apparently the much better fans?
If you didn't see this product was struggling and something needed change, I don't know how to help you. Luckily enough, something trigged this great push. And I'm happy that it got done.
But please stop the high and mighty stuff. We are all Michigan fans. Some of us are skeptical, some overly emotional, some don't like change. Stop shitting on the people that don't agree with you.
Anyone who wanted to fire Beilein isn't a very knowledgeable Michigan basketball fan.
The pounding of Indiana at the end of January grabbed my attention, even though we lost the next two games (@MSU and vs. OSU)...they then responded very satisfactorily from there on out.
I even uttered the words that it was maybe time for him to retire. I never actually left, but then they blew out state and the world was right again.
The consensus on MGoBlog at the time was "extremely inconsistent". I've seen "white collar" teams turn it up for a couple games after a snub and for quite a while after Maverick, the games backed up the idea that this team was either dangerous or trash depending on whether or not a fire got going under their asses. You blow out Indiana by 30 and then lose to OSU at home, you're inconsistent. And frankly, I'm skeptical anyone honestly sensed a turnaround any earlier than the OSU game. How do you watch a team fall to 4-6 in conference against a (previously) 3-7 rival at home and think they'd already turned the corner?
I more easily believe those who saw hope somewhere along the three straight wins against MSU, Indiana and Wisconsin, but I needed one more sign. Up to Wiscy the team had gone WLWLLWLWWLLWW. Wiscy was a third quality win in a row, mighty compelling, but this was a LONG rut of inconsistency. Walton had long exonerated himself, but I was under the impression the team was riding him. Then Minnesota happened. It was a loss, but it took 41 free throws in a road game screwjob and they still almost won. Walton went 6-for-15, the team was 9/26 on threes and still almost won. That settled my doubts. If they had any remaining issues with self-motivation they would've lost by 20.
I will say this, though, I was never "Fire Beilein" if only because that's an extremely stupid notion that leads to the question, "Who the hell do you replace him with?" He's a squeaky-clean first-rate offensive mind with a knack for developing players. The only way we could do better is with a pay-for-play coach and anyone who thinks we can copy that model is fooling themselves. The NCAA hates, absolutely seethingly HATES Michigan! And there are people stupid enough to think we of all schools could get away with paying players under the table??
one for a very long time, we tend to see success from our vantage point of how it ought to look. And Beilein teams rarely ever dominate from the start of any season to finish. There isn't a better or straighter shooter in the country. No coach under the Michigan basketball banner in my lifetime has been a straighter shooter in terms of being both a molder of character and strong basketball teams. The fact is, of course, that Beilein isn't perfect. Even when his teams are great, they aren't dominantly great, well, not like the Fab Five, which is the pentultimate team outside the Glen Rice-led championship team of 1989.
I mean I go back to the days when Michigan had Cazzie and battled Indiana tooth and nail during its perfect run.
But Beilein's teams are character-driven. And this team is as close as any Michigan has ever fielded. You can almost feel the chemistry of this team. It's not manufactired. The run to the Finals a few years ago with Spike's heroics in the Louisvile final, a Monday night in infamy, when both our current senior leaders and roomates to be, Derrick Walton and Zak Irvin were on the outside looking in, while we all wondered whether the Fab Five would gather in Atlanta for the big night, and then the following year in a heart-pounding loss to Kentucky in one of the great finishes ever in a losing cause, on a possession that will forever define any Beilein era team, Michigan kept probing the perimeter and keeping it alive until they hit the game-tying shot only to be undone by a better one at the buzzer.
We've been treated to some remarkablke basketball under this regime. And we haven't always appreciated the way it came about, because it wasn't immediate, like other things in life, it happened and evolved, and it was all good. And still we doubted. And maybe now, after what we've seen and experienced, maybe we should let this coach and his team teach us the respect for success that they've learned by playing and learning together. I know I'm all in on a season that is already another remarkable achievement under this coach.
Proud to be a Wolverine fan.
I never stopped watching the games but I was pretty down on and disappointed with the team until we beat Wisconsin or Purdue, whichever one came first.