When Dads away Little Brother will play . . . and recruit
So some may think this is sour grapes after a humiliating loss, but I think this is the mountain top for the MSU progam as the recruiting landscape has, and continues to change dramatically back to a more recognizable view for Michigan fans.
Recruiting is the lifeblood of any program as is often said. In the last several years there has been much made of the recruiting preferences of the last staff, and how they were not successful with recruting the region mostly because they chose not to be. Enter Hoke and staff and his primary recruiting base being the Midwest again. Of our 23 commits right now 18 are from Michigan or Ohio with atleast one more one the way . . . Mr. Dunn. State in past years usually had to settle for the second and often times third best after both OSU and Michigan got the best of the area. This reality led to traditional wins for us, and unbriddled inferiority for our little squirt kid-brother down the hall.
IMO there are multiple guys on MSU's roster that would be elsewhere if we would have gone directly from Carr to Hoke or something similar. Granted this year is a bumper crop year for talent in Ohio and Michigan but do you really think that we would have dipped into Harrison High to grab Funchess, and Ojemudia if we still had RR an the helm? I wanna say RJS somewhere in his recruitment talked about the fact that if RR had still been coach there was no way we would have pulled the Detroit 3 in Stone, Ross, and Richardson. 15 total kids of our 23 had MSU offers and chose us. You can spin that any way you want if you are a Spartan fan, but deep down you know the business thats comin' your way.
A perfect case study ready over diagnosis is the recruitment of Sevon Pittman. He would have been part of the class at OSU save their monetary misappropriations and such. He then moves to trying to commit to Michigan, but alas we are full having taken what we want. He then moves on to his final choice MSU. As we speak the 5-star DT Washington kid from Cinncy area has or will Officially visit MSU. Why you ask, because of the same reason Pittman will sport the green and white . . . and gold and black and green . . . man those were ugly!!
Of the 18 commits from Mich/Ohio how many do you think had MSU offers as well? 14 of those 18 also held MSU offers if Scout is correct, 14!! Lets look at MSU and their 14 commits to date. All are 3 star to Scout accept 2, Pittman and Burbridge who are 4 star recruits. Pittman was talked about earlier, and Burbridge woulda, coulda, shoulda been a part of our class if not for issues with grades. Even saying that, there are still certain people who work at WTKA, write for the DET news and Scout that think there is still an outside chance he still comes to Mich, I did say outside now as did Sam Webb.
Having said all this, MSU has reached the top of their little mountain and I for one think it starts to go down from here. Cousins is the best true QB to come through there in 10 years so him leaving is a big deal. They will still be OK-good because Dantonio isnt a horrible coach. They do a good job with what they have. What they have though is the key, and I think that all changes this year.
October 15th, 2011 at 10:52 PM ^
"Just wait 'till next year."
October 15th, 2011 at 10:56 PM ^
They can keep them. I don't care if they are the best at their position, we don't condone thugery at Michigan and we never will. I want no part of players who take intentional cheap shots with intent to injure. To my immediate memory, not even Ohio State goes for guys like that.
October 15th, 2011 at 10:59 PM ^
The Michigan-Ohio rivalry is definitely bitter but I think it's probably always been cleaner than the games against Sparty. Maybe it's all the LOIC talk surrounding Columbus but I find the OSU fans a lot more subdued and less annoying this year (at least not the ones on the internet.)
October 15th, 2011 at 11:02 PM ^
That's how they've been trained by their idiot coach. I work in Detroit and follow what goes on with the top state prospects. I know there is a perception that if you go to state you can pretty much do whatever you want. That goes for basketball too.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:27 PM ^
Consider your team's sociopathic/life-endangering impulses with respect to opposing teams and fellow students justified.
October 16th, 2011 at 1:02 AM ^
What's funny is you're so obsessed with us that you know every remotely questionable play in our history. Sorry that no one gives enough of a shit about MSU to remember anything you've ever done. Enjoy it while it lasts, buddy.
October 16th, 2011 at 6:59 AM ^
I think it's funny that you have to go back to a game from four years ago to find something. I have to go back about...uhh...17 or 18 hours:
October 16th, 2011 at 9:30 AM ^
October 15th, 2011 at 11:33 PM ^
Acutally, Ohio State DOES go for guys like that. Watch some video of them intentionally injuring Miami's first string QB and RB in their tainted "national championship" game.
Where do you think Dantonio got it from?
October 15th, 2011 at 11:48 PM ^
Jonas Mouton, 2009: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPYueAc5XAE
October 16th, 2011 at 1:06 AM ^
Yup, that's the exact same as endangering someones career/life. And for the record, none of us condone any of that kinda shit. Your fan base, however, seems to embrace it.
October 16th, 2011 at 9:08 AM ^
I believe the thugs in Ohio are part of the fan base.....
October 15th, 2011 at 10:59 PM ^
You forget that they don't want the Midwest kids because the recruit nationally.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:01 PM ^
October 15th, 2011 at 11:04 PM ^
Yes. Let's shelve this type of talk until we actually beat them. Like it or not they've got a team that's really good at football right now, and they don't lose a whole lot to graduation next year. Hopefully there are some freshman QB struggles we can take advantage of, but it's going to take some time to build our lines, especially after losing Molk, Martin, and VanBergen.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:49 PM ^
Alright alright..
a couple things.
1. Worthy is gone. No question.
2. Cousins is gone. I dont care who you are, when you lose a 3-4 year starter you will regress most of the time significantly so (see tSIO)
3. They lose Cunningham and Martin.
I dont think they will ahve the passing game to make us respect it enough to not stack the box. While their D will be good, it will probably be on the field A LOT.
October 16th, 2011 at 8:48 AM ^
I'll believe Worthy's leaving when I see it. I certainly think he's leaving, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he hates Michigan so much that he comes back another year just to play us again.
Losing Cousins, Cunningham, and Martin is big, but their o-line will improve and they'll still have some impressive RBs.
We'll see what happens, and I certainly think we're on the upswing as far as recruiting goes, but I hate pointing to next year's incoming class and saying they're going to turn the tide immediately.
October 16th, 2011 at 9:45 AM ^
but he's a first round selection in April (likely); he's not staying. This is too bad...
October 16th, 2011 at 10:11 AM ^
Having a good running game but no passing game will only go so far. I think we were pretty good evidence of that. I see MSU having major difficulty converting 3rd downs next year.
October 16th, 2011 at 11:23 AM ^
next year. We will be a machine.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:52 PM ^
Well, they lost Worthy, Cousins, Cunningham, and Martin. Those are going to be tough losses to overcome.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:03 PM ^
Kind of funny how Marcus Ray was right about the rivalry.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:21 PM ^
Remind me what did Marcus Ray, the last true ball hawking safety, say?
October 15th, 2011 at 11:03 PM ^
The fact that the countdown clock is still there makes me really angry. Can't do anything about it for a year makes things worse. The only way this can be cured is if we win legends and go for B1G title..
October 15th, 2011 at 11:11 PM ^
This is the kind of game that adds to the rivalry. I'm glad no one was seriously injured today. I'm glad Hoke took the high road in the presser after the game. Make no mistake, the way msu played today will be drilled into our returning players and incoming recruiting class. I would make a video of all the dirty shit msu pulled today and run it non-stop in our weight room or next to those "countdown clocks".
October 15th, 2011 at 11:11 PM ^
aren't stanton and hoyer in the nfl?
October 15th, 2011 at 11:23 PM ^
Brian Hoyer - 3rd stringer, not drafted, Career Passing Yds. 264, TD's - 1
Drew Stanton - 3rd stringer, 43rd pick by Matt Millen (reach) Career stats 780 yards, 4 TD's
Kirk Cousins - Still in college, #2 Sr. QB on Mel Kiper Big Board
Just Sayin
October 15th, 2011 at 11:28 PM ^
Foles is a much better quarterback than Cousins.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:13 PM ^
bottom line is we have to cut them off like this for recruiting by taking the best players instate and in a couple of years they will fade
October 15th, 2011 at 11:14 PM ^
good post,we'll be back. Washington isn't a DT though. Probably will be a rush LB in college if not a DE.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:17 PM ^
I worry about what implications this loss has for the 2013 class. Michigan did a great job recruiting for the 2012 class, but I think there were a lot of 2013 recruits at that game. How much longer can we keep owning in-state recruiting if we keep losing to Michigan State?
October 15th, 2011 at 11:34 PM ^
October 15th, 2011 at 11:57 PM ^
Focus on 2013 will be skilled positions OL and 6-8 D guys..
I think people put altogether too much emphasis on the actual game to not consider this one main fact..
Kids in Michigan are either State or Michigan fans. Very rarely does a kid not have a lean either way.
But if they dont have a lean, we just simply have a better institution than they do. It must be extremely hard to sit there and have to explain to a kid that he will not...
get to play in front of the biggest crowd in sports.
get to learn from some of the finest minds in america
get to open doors in business and life just from being associated with Michigan
get to attend a top 15 undergraduate school
October 16th, 2011 at 12:38 AM ^
'But we have fun'
<br>
<br>'At least I didn't go to school with a bunch of pricks'
<br>
<br>'Our girls are hotter'
<br>
<br>I heard all three this week, I can't argue with them, but Greg Mattison can
October 15th, 2011 at 11:18 PM ^
October 15th, 2011 at 11:34 PM ^
game manager. Put just a little pressure on him and he can't make the throw, that has been true since his freshmen year, which is why I was so disappointed M couldn't put more pressure on him.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:38 PM ^
We definitely need to upgrade our overall talent level. MSU is the school that Perry, Hart, Edwards, Manningham and so many others abused over the years. But during the four-game losing streak, we have not had a single 100-yard rusher or receiver. Over the same time, MSU has had three 100-yard rushers.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:45 PM ^
It's going to take more then one season to reverse the damage done during the RR era. This game should remind us of that fact. This afternoon we shot ourselves in the foot alot and we had chances to truly make it a close game but imploded. Spartys Oline did a good job today of stepping up and playing good for the first time this season, and we learned that we still have issues stopping the power running up the middle. Even though Spartys defense is good there were alot of drives especially in the first half where we just played BAD. That's what makes this hurt more then last year. We were an inferior team last year, but today we let this game go by horrible playcalling and then bad execution from Denard. Just bad bad throws.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:46 PM ^
don't worry about the 2013 guys if we beat MSU next year they won't even remember this game.
October 15th, 2011 at 11:50 PM ^
Chi-Blue, If Cousins is the best MSU qb in ten years, that doesn't help your argument much since he wasn't heavily recruited out of high school. Were it not for the MSU offer, he probably would have ended up at a MAC school. There were at least two or three hs qb's in the state rated higher than he was. Also, RR's recruiting classes were always rated well above State's rating.
It is true that th shift in philosophy and what kind of players fit what kind of system best was a problem RR had and Hoke now has, but there is no alternative reality that would have made Hoke a viable candidate for head coach in 2007. It can be fun to play the "what if" game and use our present knowledge to go back in time to change a decision, but it has nothing to do with reality.
MSU might have hit theri high point last year, but that has more to do with their schedule than the players they recruit. They continue to be ranked about 20th-30th in recruiting nationally--I don't see that slipping.
October 16th, 2011 at 12:55 AM ^
I guess I can see what you say about Cousins, but I was not referring to him when talking about players that we should not see in a Spartan uniform. I was more thinking about Gholston, Lawrence Thomas, Baker, Norman, and Sims all of whom had Mich offers and were 4 or 5 star players. As far as where Cousins is now I leave that to the experts and his stats which indicate NFL.
As far as going from Carr to Hoke I obviously didnt mean Hoke but someone like him in that when RR came it changed everything including out recruiting perspective. What I am saying is that letting MSU take players and establish relationships with high school coaches all while RR was loving him some Florida has consequences.
You are not really seeing reality if you think its ok to get MOST of our players nationally(RR) and let MSU have Most of Michigan the Midwest. In a recruiting sense its process of elimiation in a way. If we take the best locally we dramatically limit MSU's ability to be successful around here. You tellin' me Gholston, Baker, and Norman didnt have a huge impact today?? There has been alot of joking that they recruit nationally. Its obvious they dont nationally recruit. They dont go out to California and take a kid that had offers from UCLA, USC, Oregon, Stanford, Arizona State, Washington, Arizona, Cal like we do ie: Erik Magnuson and thats fine because we have 18 kids from Mich/Ohio. Purdue is a great example of a team like MSU that recruits nationally. They take kids from Texas every year. Of course its after Texas, Texas AM, Baylor, LSU, OK, OKS, Texas Tech, TCU, and SMU take what they want.
They dont recruit nationally because they cant, they have no real national draw, its really that simple. We take 4-star and all around better player from X high school in Mich that we didnt take last year where does MSU go? California? Texas? Louisiana? Florida? No, they go to hich school Z just down the road where 2-3 star and not as good a player ends up being a Spartan. It may take a couple years but eventually that takes a toll.
October 16th, 2011 at 1:23 AM ^
I agree that in hindsight, the RR hire wasn't the greatest idea (and maybe the AD at the time should have been able to foresee some of the fallout--I mean in what world is Mallet going to stick around and try to play in RR's offense?) But I do think a majority of fans were clamoring for a change, for a more exciting and less predictable offense, especially. Remember the days when fans were pissed with an 8 win season?
RR was recruiting in state, though. He was doing what he should have been doing, going after players he wanted and that fit his philosophy and his system. Hoke is doing the same thing, but he is having greater success in Michigan and Ohio. But neither coach was, is, or should be going after athletes just to keep them away from Michigan State. That's one of the things that differentiates us from State: they define their season by their performance against us. The reverse is not true. We need to get the best possible student athletes period and not worry about what Michigan State is doing recruiting wise. You're right, we do have advantages in recruiting, both nationally and locally, but there are some areas that State has advantages, too. There are players that can't be accepted at Michigan academically that can get into State. And some of those players go in with a chip on their shoulder. That's part of the reason the SEC and Big 12 sometimes have recruiting advantages, too. They can and do take players that would never even make it into Michigan State or Penn State.
October 16th, 2011 at 7:22 AM ^
Well done. I think the OP betrays an unhealthy obsession with MSU. I'm reminded of the people who say things like "Izzo took so-and-so just so Beilein couldn't have him." (That was Draymond Green, btw ... hardly a benchwarmer. Izzo knew what he was doing.)
Let's just go after the best players, eh? I'm not sold long-term on Denard as a QB, but he was a RichRod recruit and is arguably the most exciting player UMich has had in several years. To take another example, Lewan was another RichRod recruit from outside the Midwest. Obsessing about keeping recruits away from Sparty might have left those two off the list. See?
October 16th, 2011 at 9:58 AM ^
He's still taking Banner if he wants to come etc. etc. etc.
October 16th, 2011 at 12:00 AM ^
and getting pushed around like we did today, I think the "little Brother" things needs to go away. It was funny in 2007, but now it just sounds stupid. Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, MSU has the better football this year. The whole little brother thing is getting juvenille considering we haven't won since 2007. Let it die.
October 16th, 2011 at 10:53 AM ^
Everyone is kinda on board that MSU played better today, they had like 150 yards of Penalties and we couldn't capitalize. That being said, the way they played and how they have acted off the field and will continue to act on and off the field shows they act like a Little Brother. You would think after 4 years they would learn how to win with some class, but it still hasn't happened and until a massive culture shift goes on up there (I'm talking new attitudes from the AD and Coaches) it will always be that way. That's why we call them Little Brother
October 16th, 2011 at 12:00 AM ^
I'm not really sure the connection you're making makes much sense when Michigan has out-recruited MSU consistently, yet has 4 losses in row.
For the record, I agree with your conclusions about MSU peaking, I just don't see your argument as being very convincing.
October 16th, 2011 at 12:14 AM ^