Am I delusional or have the students been a real dissapointment this this year? I've been attending games since the 80s and I don't recall the students consistently showing up late / leaving early like they have been. Noon games were the norm when I was a student so that should be no excuse. Heard someone state "students who show up late or don't attend are missing life". True words.
What's wrong with the students?
One thing to consider is that a lot of students did not grow up fans of Michigan like most of us. They become fans when they are on campus.
Fair or not, prior to this season the seniors have never even seen a good football team. That's the hangover effect of the last 3 years.
So what you're saying is that a furry sideline mascot that markets the brand to children would end up filling the student section before kickoff in fifteen years?
This. Also to improve the off-field experience we need more piped-in music, especially "In the Big House" so the students know where to go
I think the only way that would be effective is if it could be piped in all over Ann Arbor for about an hour before kickoff. Pop Evil needs to play at the 50 yard line while the players come out of the tunnel, obviously, but you could get Zingermans, Campus Corner, Ashley's, the Jug and other popular pregame spots to simulcast using giant Emmy the M inspired speakers.
of your proposed mechanism of dissemination of the music to the pregaming public at large. Perhaps we could get some artisians to create some sixy-foot granite statues of Sir Charles, Desmond, and Bo, and install them on top of City Hall?
I just went to Wikipedia and learned that OSU has 78 consensus All-Americans. Think 78 is enough to make a Harry Potter-esq throne sculpture with Desmond, Woodson and Denard in the throne?
why does everyone always talk down to the fans who didn't go to Michigan?
I don't think people talk down to people who didn't go to Michigan. The only ones who make a big deal about it are MSU fans.
because just yesterday, I had a discussion with one of my friends who is a Michigan State fan. He, by the way, goes to Oakland.
I know this is flogging a dead horse...but I hate this meme. I don't understand why people care about alumni status making someone a fan. Just as being an alumnus doesn't make one a fan, not being an alumnus should have no bearing on one's "fan quality."
tl;dr lets lose the alumni make the best fans meme
MSU fans making a big deal out of something Michigan fans do? Blasphemy!
They expanded the student section this year. Not only are they showing up late, some don't even show up at all.
I can say thats not true.
Yes, I know a few friends who don't show up to the occaisional games, and for good reasons (generally upcoming tests that must take precedence for them). But the vast majority do show up, albeit occaisionally late. This last game was difficult, as there was a HUGE back up that formed 30 minutes before the game at the North East entrance (the one generally used by students coming from campus). Several friends of mine waited 20 minutes in line to get into the stadium, hence the lack of students in the student section.
Another reason the students tend to get to the game a little later than everyone else (usually right as the game is starting) is that a lot of the students pregame parties and such are located farther away than the (mostly) non-student tailgates and it takes them a little while.
Honestly, this topic really annoys me. Yes, the students do show up later (but I maintain not by much, and the vast majority rarely miss the kickoff). But despite our 'tardiness' we still bring an important aspect of the stadium experience. You don't see me starting a thread saying whats wrong with Section 1 (NTS1). Why aren't they standing, or cheering loudly to distract the opposing offense, or hell even participating in the wave when we're up by 40+ points against the Golden Gophers.
1 filled with old people? I might not remember correctly, but if it is, that might explain the lack of noise.
And it probably was unfair to choose that section in particular. But the point remains that the student section is the one that is standing for the whole game, and the one that is the loudest for the duration. And to call us out for being late, when we do what a lot of the sections will not, is unfair IMO.
And I am man-ing up by defending my fellow students. Maybe you should man up and get the rest of the stadium to man up as well and have them get into the games, rather than just complaining about us for tardiness.
I remember not liking how quiet the rest of the stadium was when I was a student too (2008 alum) but the truth is the student section wasn't impressive then either and it isn't now. You can defend it if you want but I don't know why you would. The "you suck" chant still is horrible. I think the students should always take it upon themselves to bring the energy to these games and get the crowd going.
As a young alumni, I would, but random older gentlemen keep telling me to sit down.
The point is, students will always show up later, that's what happens when tickets are $25 apiece and students tailgate. The rest of the stadium shows up on time because their tickets are 3x that amount, and will always refuse to stand up the majority of the game. This will not change for the forseeable future.
Our students are too different then the ones from the previous years. I have an uncle who was a student during '97, and as a diehard fan he still sold his ticket to the Ohio State game. So students were still doing things like that. Back in my dads day he the drinking age was 18 and they could bring a Keg to the stadium, which eliminated the need for having a preparty outside the big house (if they had that I'm sure tardiness for students would likely decrease). It's not just a new revelation that's 'something wrong with this generation of fans'. I honestly think the people here who say there is something wrong with our student are seeing things through rose tinted glasses.
To make 500 dollars off a ticket, it makes sense. That's a ton of money for a person who is only eating ramen for dinner 5 days a week.
And I'll let myself be the judge of his fandom, not you. And as a person who bleeds maize and blue, I can safely say he does as well, maybe even more than myself—which for the people, with the exception of the MGoBloggers here (although he is an avid user of this site) is saying something.
man, i hate it when people say that about eating ramen 5 nights a week. he did not eat ramen 5 nights a week, neither do you or any of your friends. In fact i honestly doubt any college student is so poor they have to eat $.20 dinners. i get it, some college students are poor, but not that poor.
I think students now are not the same with the previous generations, they or their family were not a fan growing up, and many became a fan after got on campus. So I think we cannot expect what happend 10,15 years ago to happen now, it's just different generations and everything changes. One day we might not be the most wins team in the CFB, we just have to deal with it. Nevertheless, we know we all love Michigan Football, we're there when they needed the most and will always be there.
I'm not trying to say the students aren't important. In fact, I wish more of the stadium acted the way the students do. But the student section used to look filled up in the past years and now it doesn't. Unless it's a weird view from my seat, the student section just doesn't look as filled up as the rest of the stadium.
But it's almost always full by 5 minutes or so into the fourth quarter (with the rare exception of games like Eastern, where a few of the people who are more or less apathetic don't show up). That comment wasn't really directed at you in particular, but at the thread as a whole.
5 minutes or so into the fourth quarter? That is an odd time to be filling up
First quarter First quarter First quarter First quarter First quarter First quarter First quarter First quarter First quarter First quarter First quarter First quarter
dammit. I screwed up that one...
np, got it, just having fun
Use the Northwest entrance:
1. There are less people at the gate
2. There are less people to walk through to get to your section
3. It's closer to your section once you get into the stadium
I don't remember ever entering the stadium through the Northeast entrance. There were always too many people there and I wanted to get into the stadium for the start. There's also the novel idea of leaving the pre-game early, but I understand people's desire to get that last drink in.
and the North entrance. Both have much shorter lines. I never once used the Northeast entrance.
i call BS. back in my day the student section went from the mid endozone around the corner to near the 50; nearly 25% of the seats. nowadays, it seams to wrap around to about the 30 or less, so way less students are attending games.
in fact, i also seem to remember about 10 years ago that students were complaining because they couldn't order a full season of tix; they could only reserve 1/2 season because of demand.
so it's pretty obvious the students aren't into the games nearly as much as years past.
Section 1 prides itself on being where the wave goes to die. If you want to hear section 1 cheer listen after really good punt or kick off coverage or a good blitz pickup. I'll agree we don't cheer very loudly but there are very serious fans that have been going to games for a very long time.
As much as we love football, most of the students don't really get pumped up for the likes of EMU, SDSU, MINN and Purdue. For the not-so-hardcore, which is the majority, those games don't have much pull and they are just happy if they win. They dont mind leaving early or getting late. They don't live and die by every snap.
But yeah, also noon games suck. We need more 3:30 games. And night games. No one wants to start drinking at 10 AM.
Also, as a poster above said, our last 3 years we have sucked. There's better use of our time than to sit in the cold and rain and watch us get smacked by Penn St as we did in 09, my freshman year. Until this year, we all kind of went into the tougher games just hoping to not be embarrassed.
the last couple of falls i've taught i had students who just preferred it if you didn't bring up the football team. sadly, many of them just aren't real fans. personally i find it pathetic, but basketball was the same way when i was an undergrad and it's just now making a comeback in terms of student attendance. but considering that the undergrads who are there this year spend most of their time coming up with clever and classy chants like "fuck the irish" i don't really miss them.
Trolling? Really? It's a fact. We haven't been good recently until this year. I don't see how you can argue otherwise.
As for real fans vs not real fans, does it really make you not a real fan because you don't want to talk about the sad level we were playing at? No. We might have had some nice days in Forcier era, but there was really nothing to talk about because it was embarrassing.
And you're bashing the chants that the students come up with? Not meaning for it to be an excuse but we're 20 year olds. Come on. "Fuck the Irish" is a classic. We don't care that everyone does it. Why should you think that we should be above and beyond any other student population in terms of chants we come up with?
Until the students start seeing a great product on the field consistently, with competitive games against top competition, I think you could excuse them for cutting corners since they have better things to do...They are in fact students
I don't want to get into a pissing contest here, but what are the better things for them to do? I mean, if they think life is hard now, just wait until they graduate and get their first job. I don't even want to consider how exponentially more difficult having kids would be.
Everybody has "things to do". Let's not pretend that students have much, much, better things to do than everybody else.
As I read that post I was thinking "I have quadruplet 3 year olds, a job, a wife who doesn't like me watching a lot of sports, an extreme fondness for hunting etc etc etc and this guy is talking about all the other things students have to do???" Even through the crap of the past three years I have never turned off a game early once. I am from Nova Scotia Canada and have yet to be able to make pilgrimage to AA to see a game in my life. The fact that people are making excuses for students who simply have to roll out of bed to get to the games and pay $25 for a ticket makes me want to be sick. I would give my left testicle for that opportunity and the fact that some don't appreciate it is pretty sad!
Why should you think that we should be above and beyond any other student population in terms of chants we come up with?
Because we're Michigan...we are better
Nothing of the form "fuck _____" is a classic. And you're 20(-ish) year olds who got into Michigan. Presumably you have functioning brains. You should be above and beyond most other student populations in the B1G, not to mention those of MAC schools--once again, you got into Michigan! The whole point of the Michigan Man meme is to encourage people to act in a way that reflects well on their alma mater, their classmates, and eventually their fellow alumni. Accountability isn't just for student-athletes. </rant>
talk about being entitled. you speak of the definition of "fair weather fan". and yes those types are fans but not "great fans". the great fans are loyal through thick and thin. i was lucky enough to attend the nat'l title rose bowl game in 1998. however, i went to more games in 2008 than any other year; missing just one road game.
I didn't realize there were students that were fair weather fans. Thanks for letting me know there are still some of you left.
Why should a student who grew up on the East or West coast with no allegiance to Michigan, automatically become a diehard supporter of a mediocre team? Some do, some don't. Maybe they grew up as Rutgers or USC fans or where ever their parents went to school.
We have posters on the board here who go to Indiana, MSU, Ohio State, and several other schools. They didn't automatically become fans of those schools when they enrolled, they stayed Michigan fans.
As a Purdue student, who attended yesterday's game in my Bo shirt, I totally agree.
I'm not sure if this was meant for me, but I was responding to the person who said the team hasn't been good the past 3 years so it is acceptable to not care about when you get there or when you leave. If you don't like Michigan football enough to show up on time, don't get tickets. I am sure some of the people who are on the 20 year waiting list for season tickets would love to purchase them. If you grew up a fan of a different school, great. This is still no reason to only support Michigan when we have a good team, especially if you are a student buying student tickets. We call those who only support Michigan during good years fair weather fans, even if they are Michigan students.
Not everyone grew up a diehard fan. I'm from Maryland and have no connection to the school or state other than being a student here. As soon as I starting going here, I've loved the football team. I'm just saying what I've noticed since being here and paying attention. The students haven't been as involved as in the past because the team hasn't been good. Simple. If we were National Championship contenders for the past 10 years straight, I would guarantee you that you wouldn't be bitching about the student section.
Starts as a fair weather fan. You rarely just dive into hardcore fandom. Rather it takes a little while for it to build up, and they often have to see a good product, or else you end up like Indiana, where just no students actually go to the game.
But that being said, most of the students are not fairweather fans. The majority are actually quite commited. Hell, go on the Bursley Baits buses anytime at night and it's pretty easy to get a chorus of 'The Victors' started.
The better use of your time is playing beer pong with jappy chicks from new york?
You have your priorities mixed up. Jappy chicks will always pretend to be wasted, being in the student section will not always be there.
Not what I meant...
I meant that going to a game is basically an all-day event. Many people would rather sit and home and watch it because it still gives them time to do whatever the hell they need to do. We're students after all. It doesn't mean we arent fans because we aren't going early or staying late in a blowout.
I don't follow. Even in Rich Rod's first terrible, terrible year we went and saw Northwestern in the sleet storm conditions that inspired the fandom endurance badge III.
There looked to be equivalant crowds for Purdue last weekend.
I'd say this: Is there really a better use of your time? You only get so many Football Saturdays as a student. if anything, the students probably still have some of the least stressful lives of any people in the stadium.
I'm not upset at all that students show up slightly late to games, but "better use of our time"?
fair weather fans miss out on those bad weather games that still get talked about:
- Bob Bergeron's 50 yarder at the buzzer to beat Iowa in 1983 in a rainstorm?
- The big 5-0 win against Mike Alstotts purdue team in 1995? that game was epic. started out in the 40s with drizzle and was sub zero wind chill by games end. me with my windbreaker...
- the NW loss mentioned above in 2008.
- the snow bowl, i wasn't around for that one.
Yeah I was in the student section for the Rocket Man and the last snap. I was in the minority. Also, I have two sets of tickets and it has been hard to find buyers for the second ticket if I have it on game day. The market seems flooded for the non-premier games. Pretty weak if you ask me.
This week though it was worse because of Halloween. Lots of late nights on Friday. I was still able to get up before dawn and start drinking to make the opening kickoff but kids these days are getting soft.
Not everyone cares as much as we do. Everybody here is obsessed with Michigan Football and wouldn't miss the kickoff if they could help it. There are plenty of students who use the game as a social event. Some weeks the preparty is too good to leave. Some weeks you spend the morning watching the mud bowl in the rain and would rather watch the game from your couch. I don't think you're going to find the people you're looking to get a response from on a website for those with a borderline unhealthy obsession with Michigan football.
I have been a Michigan fan all my life, but having my first 3 years as a student be the worst 3 in my lifetime be a long way has been dissapointing. I understand how a student who didn't grow up caring would find it hard to be as die hard as they should be. There is a lot of people who have come to the conclusion that studying so they are free to go out Saturday night is better than going to watch the team lose to Purdue, like they did my sophomre year. I earned my Fandom Endurance Merit Badge, but if at the time I knew how dissapointing those 3 years would be, I might have left and been warm in South Quad instead of frozen in the big house. If the team keeps winning, the students will be back in full force.
There is a reason Michigan can sell out a 100,000 seat stadium every game, year-in and year-out, and Indiana can't give their tickets away. It is called winning. The last three years have been tough all around and a slight drop-off in student interest is unsurprising. The exact opposite is happening with men's basketball (season ticket sales have doubled). If the football program gets back to winning the way it has over the past 40 years, the issue will disappear.
ya, we UM lost that purdue game, but it was a good exciting game that went down to the wire. it took a purdue on side kick to win it. the NW game also went down to the wire. i mean, complain about the PSU game where we were dominated from the first snap, but there have been very few home games where we were not competitive, even the last few years.
as a former out-of-state student, studying and then hanging out Saturday nights was more important than college football games. At the time, I was more interested in the NFL (being from the NY metro area) games than college, so if a big test were coming up, I would skip the football game, study and maybe watch an NFL game on Sunday.
Michigan is an expensive school for out of state kids and so studying to get a good job and repay that tuition becomes important, and hey, you're still a ~20 year old who has friends and wants to party a bit, so studying + partying sometimes = skipping a football game or two.
Party at the game. Hell I knew people who could study at the game (for pysch majors it counted as a field trip). Eat nails and shit real bricks, too. (-:
Most of those alumni are the reason the drinking age went back up to 21 and you can't drink at the game anymore. And don't let them tell you different.
But, you're right. We had no out-of-state students until 2008, or so, so there's that. I blame RichRod for bringing in all those out-of-state kids.
The weather was always perfect. It never rained, sleeted, or snowed in Ann Arbor for several decades, like Texas today only worse. Preparties were banned. And trooping out to watch, say, Michigan beat Navy, or somebody, 70-14 was real exciting. Good thing it was such a short walk from Markley.
Classes? Never had one. Study? In engineering school? Are you kidding me?
Look we know it isn't in your DNA the way it is for those of us who grew up with it and thought The Victors was a lullaby. And still hate O$U for going for two, and always will.
And we were always there before kickoff, even the out-of-state engineering students who lived on North Campus. Because it was Michigan Football. And there was no other place you had to be, wanted to be, or needed to be.
You don't know what your missing.
I've got a couple rolls of Woody Hayes toilet paper for you. If you're interested. And can show up on time for a game.
Most students really don't care about Michigan football to he honest. A lot of them just like football for the tailgating. Also, I don't know if mudbowl went late but that probably didn't help.
...was supposed to start at 9. It started at 10. I left the Mudbowl early, to go to the real game. But it was a comparatively small group of people at SAE; a tiny dent in the Stadium seating. And the empty-seat areas in the student sections were pretty huge. I thought of it after the Rocket Man touched down, and realized all of the people -- students, mostly -- who missed it.
This was the first time in a very long time that I went in the Northeast entrance gate. It sucked. I'm not sure what the problem was -- security, bag checks, not enough ticket-takers, slow scanning devices, all of the above -- but I'm glad I didn't wait until the last minute to enter. I won't use that gate anymore. (I would if I sat in the north endzone.)
I remember showing up right around kick off and leaving early when we played a bad big ten team and were killing them. (94-97) It was just Purdue after all. I would almost take it as a good sign when we can go back to not being concerned with Purdue or Indiana.
Now for Nebraska and Ohio I would expect everyone to be there on time and stay for the whole thing, hopefully to storm the field after a victory over OSU and a trip to the Big Ten championship game.
Also get the hell off my lawn
I for one dearly hope that no field storming commences. This is Michigan Fergodsakes, lets act like we've been there before.
I think ideally we would only storm the field when we beat OSU to go undefeated. Unfortunately with the new big ten championship game set-up we will never win the Big Ten at home again. So winning our division is the best we can do at home. So other than going undefeated and beating OSU, beating OSU and winning is the division (though not undefeated) is the second best we can do at home.
After the last several years I would not fault the students for getting on the field in the win division but not undefeated scenario. I can also see the standard typically being the undefeated scenario.
If you are arguing against ever storming the field, I disagree. I was at two games in which the field was stormed. 1989 OSU (Bo’s last home game, I was 14) and 1997, I was a senior at Michigan. Both were great experiences I will always remember. I don’t think you should storm the field for any big win. But a win over OSU and championship should probably qualify. I hope that in the next few years the current Michigan students will be given a reason to jump the wall. I suspect it is also a cool experience for players after a big win.
BACK IN MY DAY WE HAD 50,000 STUDENTS LINED UP AT THE GATE AT 6 A.M. FOR EVERY GAME. EVEN THE ROAD GAMES.
Can we get a weather report for those six o'clocks? And an indication of the elevation walked in both directions? Footwear?
I think that covers it.
As a student in the late 70's, I am sympathetic to current students on one account; it really does seem to take a lot longer to get in the perimeter gates. I don't know what makes it so slow. They used to tear your ticket; now they scan it. That shouldn't be a big deal. So it is strange to me; maybe they really have reduced the number of ticket-takers, to coincide with the need to have a police officer near them for security-viewing.
are students of racism, then they probably have some deep-seeded anger issues. If they're students of sexism, then they probably have some deep-seeded maternal issues. If they're students of gayism, then they have some deep-seeded internal sexual issues. Students of ageism are probably scared of what the future holds for them. If they're students of bullying, then they're redirecting their anger somewhere else. You should really be more specific when you say students. There are a lot of different types of students.
I think the issue was that it was an early start and a premier party night. This is a non-issue.
I got way more into games before I went to school here. I will never leave a game early, and I have gone on plenty of trips to away games in my time, but I am no longer concerned with missing the kickoff. I think the last three years have probably taken a toll on us.
Why you would post such a thing.?
I would dare say that many (not all, for there may be a fair number of die-hards there) are the thing that we're not - bandwagon, or casual fans. Most of us get analytical and pumped for each game, whereas I imagine many students don't (and probably are more concerned about the headline acts than the undercards of the schedule). Either that, or it is even more of a struggle to be there prompt at noon than it used to be.
I would imagine that, for some, it's a place to hang out, not the sacred place that many people here consider Michigan Stadium to be (myself included). Especially if you arrived on campus during the last few years, it might be difficult to really get into it, or indeed, as I noted when I was a student (1996-2000), some people are there because their friends or dates are there and they could give a shit about football.
Makes me proud I grew up an obsessive Michigan fan. My dates stayed for the whole damn game, although a few left in the middle and I stayed. One of the reasons I married my wife is that she stayed for the whole damn game one time.
generally suck. They are terrible, always have been probably always will be.
The locomotive cheer sucks, its actually embarrassing.
As far as students sucking, lets review our home opponents minus Notre Dame. They were awesome against Notre Dame.
Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan, San Diego State, Minnesota and Purdue. If I were 18-22 again I would be way more interested in drinking than getting excited for any of these opponents.
Locomotive cheer does not suck.
Even during the miracle season of 2006 I don't think half the students made it to the non-marquee games before the end of the first quarter.
I'm a freshman and can tell you the main reason everyone was late was the night before. Friday was a huge party night and almost everyone I knew slept in saturday morning, I'm not just talking normal students either, even most of the Greeks (including myself) who are normally up by 6 slept in until mudbowl started. Also, like everyone has said, not every student is a huge football fan. I'd love it if everyone was, but remember this is an elite academic institution. Sports aren't the first thing on everyone's mind.
Michigan isn't Yale or Harvard.
Pregaming with Pat proves that.
for the OSU game student attendance over Thanksgiving break. It's The Game, obviously and this is the best chance Michigan has had of winning in the since 2007, but it is Thansgiving break. For students that live relatively close, it's not a big deal to go home for a few days and come back for the game and either go back home after or stay in AA, but for students that are farther away and haven't been home since August, it's a bit much to ask them to either stay in AA for Thanksgiving or come back 2 days earlier, when they probably aren't going to have a chance to see family for another month still.
I know, I know, Michigan Football and OSU and This Is Michigan Fergodsakes and all that, but family is probably still going to win out most of the time. It's a really unfair choice to force people to make.
I think it might somewhat of a problem.
I gauge how the student section will be based on several email lists for buying and selling I am on. For example this weeks game people were giving away their tickets for like $10, and for the Notre Dame game it was the opposite as people were asking for tickets not selling them.
Emails about OSU tickets are more in the Purdue department, and by that I mean more selling than buying emails. This especially picked up in recent weeks as people realized that it is Thanksgiving weekend. However, OSU are selling for $100
or have the marcs from novi been real assholes this year
Students have always showed up late, left early, and talked about how they wanted to sleep with Brady Quinn in between. What, I'm not bitter about the experience of having to listen to that for the two hours those girls were actually there. Not at all!
My name is WFBlue, I attended the University of Michigan in the early 80's, and I missed some football games. Wow, I don't feel any better. I was obviously a lame ass back then.
When I attend games now (traveling from NC) I get there at least an hour early or try and time it so we can march to the stadium with the band. I guess its called maturity or old age.
The irony is, there is no shortage of posts that bitch about mature people like you and me and our inadequacy as fans because we don't yell loud enough, we enjoy the wrong kinds of stadium traditions, etc.
Still make more noise than the student who hasn't shown up yet.
Being completely honest, the whole RichRod era did that. A lot of losing - not the best teams, it's not the BIG DEAL on Saturday anymore. Tailgating, partying, etc. is the priority, going to the game is secondary. Once we are a top 10 team year in, year out - that will change.
I think that you'll see the students come on time and stay for Nebraska and OSU. I'm suprirsed that they didn't realize how important a winnable B10 game is, but as was stated above those of us on this board are more obsessed than most of them probably are.
I think people tend to remember the good crowds from years past, and they forget the bodybag game crowds. Everyone remembers the crowd going apeshit during Braylonfest (although, it's worth noting that tens of thousands of people left), or during TOUCHDOWN MANNINGHAM, or during the occasional 38-0 ND ass-whippings. But no one remembers the times we played Southwest Central Indiana Poly and Our Sisters of the Poor and Fumbling, during which the students were as half-hearted as ever.
If the crowd doesn't show up for Ohio State, then we'll talk.
I mean, everyone was their bright and early (figuratibely speaking of course, as it was at night) for the Notre Dame game this year. If the students don't show up to The Game, then i will eat my hat, and it is a large hat. (ala Turd Furguson on celebrity Jeopardy)
In the 90’s you could easily get a flask in. I almost never go to games anymore, living in Colorado, and when I do I don’t need to sneak alcohol in, I’m no longer 20. I was just wondering if the higher level of security makes it more difficult than in the past to sneak drinks in. If that is the case, you could have a fair number of students having one more before the game and heading out early for the post party once the game is in hand.
I seem to remember the amount of partying in the stadium already declining in the mid nineties. As a freshman it was fairly common for people to burn one in the student section. Four years later everyone looked shocked when it happened. Just wondering if that trend has continued.
Snuck stuff in...can you not do that now? Eeek.
i think there are probably more police standing there watching you walk in now, but i've worn plenty of bulky hoodies and coats without getting searched. but i haven't actually tried sneaking anything in since the days when my dad's friends would stick the flask in my pocket because they probably wouldn't search the 6 year old.
It's worse for basketball. So few students had tickets last year I was in the bleachers for every game. They weren't even full after the games had started. The year before that, I think I made it that close 3 or 4 times max.
Well they did make it unable to smoke cigarettes in the stadium. Maybe they come late and leave early because of that.
One, we actually do show up, the reson most people left yesterday is bc it started raining and we were winning big. Yeah no one shows up on time, but not one person that is currently an undergrad has seen real good Michigan Football. It has been pretty sad. The 5th year Seniors have seen a 7-6 team and 8-5 team at best and 2 seaons of high hopes will absolute failures of end of a season. Give it time and people will start getting really pumped up again.
You guys keep whining about the students not showing up early, but what about everybody leaving early? Every single game. And if you live in the Ann Arbor area and don't show up to every game for the sport you're complaining about, then you're just as bad. I go to every single football and basketball game since I've been a student, and yes I am late occassionally. But I have never left a game early and I've been going to games since I was 6. I don't care if the game is a blowout or the weather is, you stick it out at the end. Missing kickoff is a lot better than missing the final plays.
I also have a policy of never leaving early, regardless of the score. I had several friends leave for 2004 msu and 2008 Wisconsin, and never want to have that happen to me.
Of course, now I'm so fanatical I enjoy watching garbage time drives because I want to see how well the backups perform.
Two words: Halloween Weekend.
Dressed as seats.
Hate to say it because it sounds like I am being an asshole, but after being at both (student and non) seats in the last few years I will tell you that even if they come in late they are still the lifeblood of that stadium. They are the loudest, they are the most involved and they make the blue hairs get up and make noise from time to time. I, for one, love the student section every year and wish I could be there forever.
As a Freshman and lifelong diehard fan, I hope I can give some perspective. First of all, I would never miss, be late, or leave early from any game. However, as a student, it is difficult and unnatural to make attending the games a priority. In my case, I have to get up at 6:30 for a noon game to wake up a sorority to start pregaming. When the parties do not end usually until almost kickoff, we are late. I have to find people to go with and leave early. If there are parties the night before, (like haloween parties before the Purdue game), you are especially tired before the game. On top of that, you have several hours of homework, and might want to go out again Saturday night. There is no time to study, so when the score at the half is 22-3, it is very tempting to leave.
That being said, the student section is still full or almost full. it is one of the larger sections in the country, and so it is harder to fill. Every student in that section has a great excuse to not be there, more than most other schools, but we still come in massive numbers.
Keep coming! Good perspective.
Wait till you have a job.
If you can't appreciate the gameday experience enough to make it a priority, then don't buy student tickets in the first place.
I would never miss a game as a student. I've been in the big house for every snap of every game this season. In my life, the gameday experience is irreplacable.
I grew up a die-hard, so I'm always there early, but others aren't as passionate as me or the rest of us who read mgoblog.
Lots of kids pre-game, and they roll in late because of that.
I think the noon start is part of it too. Some students wake up late for the game. Others are hungover from Friday night, and it takes them longer to get out of bed.
Part of it is competition too. WAY more people showed up early for the UTL game. But when it comes to Western, Eastern, Purdue, Minnesota, it's not a big deal to miss a few mintues.
My point is there's no one real reason that the students have been showing up late. I think it's a variety of reasons.
Take it in context. Most of the games where the students were late to arrive were noon games against teams like Eastern and Minnesota, who we kicked the shit out of. We came out strong and the section was full by kickoff for bigger games like Western and Notre Dame. Wait til Ohio State or Nebraska til you bash us
Not bashing. Just disappointed. I attended the UM-MSU game this year. The MSU student section was full an hour before kickoff. I understand that was a different caliber game but it was impressive.
Also, MSU probably has a higher percentage of in-state students and students who grew up as Michigan State fans. Michigan draws from all over the country with a decent percentage who probably didn't grow up as Michigan fans.
If you arrived on campus, as a fan of another school growing up, the product on the field the past 3-4 years was probably not good enough to get you to convert.
MSU has first come first serve seating for the student section. That's why people get there so early. I can guarantee you that if this were the case at UM, the student section would fill wayyy more quickly because none of the upperclassmen would want to have worse seating than the freshman.
I also attended the MSU game. I used a student ticket I bought from a friend of a friend who attends State. So obviously they have their own fair share of apathetic students. Also, I'd like to point out there State's student tickets are wayyy cheaper, and I didn't have to pay a validation fee. This is because if they didn't do those things, their student section would never fill.
Meanwhile, at UM, they can up the price of student tickets, and make validation $40 at the cheapest for non-students, yet the student section still ends fills up for nearly every game.
I really wish we would do this actually. I hate seeing people coming in at the end of the first quarter and trying to make people move because that seat is on their ticket.
Comparing MSU vs. Michigan's student sections are an apples to oranges argument. Seating at Michigan State games are determined by what time you show up (their student section is GA).
I was a student from 2005-2009 and I think the big difference between now and then are little annoyances such as lines for the pisser for our new green waterless urinals vs. the old school and wonderful walls to piss on.
within each section at the big house the seating is basically GA except for the occasional "don't make me get an usher" bluehair in training.
Thats not true at all, I was sitting in the student section for MSU and it wasn't full at the top at any point during the game let alone an hour before.
yea, some of us are crazy fans, I only watch it on tv and I gave my wife a hard time about shopping because I was gonna miss the kick off on tv vs purdue! she wasn't too happy bout that. but this is Michigan "fergodssake!"
Kids these days...
I wish everyone else would show up late. Maybe they might stand and be ya know loud the entire game.
Except for, well, you know, the beginning.
As much as I love UM football, I'm never going to leave my tailgate at hill and state promptly at 11:15 to beat the lines, and get to my section 15 minutes before kickoff. The current student gameday is NOT all about the football. We only get 6-8 times a year when we can wake up at 6am to start drinking, blaring music, and being college students. If blue hairs
I'd take an enthusiastic student who goes to all the games but doesn't know every player over an intelligent, informed blue hair every time. Give us a quality opponent and we set the energy level of the stadium, period. For any blue hairs angry at our minor tardiness, kindly stay off OUR lawns on Saturday mornings.
This is Michigan Fergodsakes.
By the way, what are those weird, foamy rectangular things I see all the non-students carrying with them to the games? Are those like, to give your feet a little bit more cushion when you're standing the whole game?
you can take the time to answer the damn question. what the hell are the weird foamy things?
I remember going to games before I was a student wondering why people would angrily look at my dad ('84) when he yelled too loud and kept asking us to sit down. This is not representative of everybody, but it's frustrating nonetheless. Neither group (students and non-students) are all perfect fans! The gameday is a different tradition for everybody, and not all students live and die by football. Plenty of us do and most of the rest at least bring energy to the crowd. Our goal when going to games is to have fun. It may be shocking to some, but the motive to go for students is to have fun together, while supporting our classmates/program.
Regardless, non-alums have no right to take shots at the students. Michigan is our lives, and memories like UTL mean A LOT to all the students. Staying in the stadium an hour after that was absolutely surreal.
I completely agree with every point.
Everyone experiences Michigan football differently, and both sides have reason to be critical of each other. However, I would like to point out that fractures in the fan base have not been good to Michigan football the past three years...
I agree, it's just difficult to not get frustrated by people calling out the students. It's just a generalization that I can easily make about non-students too. If they wanna sit for the 3 hours and only cheer on scoring plays, go to a baseball game. I hate getting negged by diehards for having the best Michigan experience I can and defending others that do so, while their generic, perspectiveless comments get plussed.
People are also forgetting we kinda expanded the student section by 1,000 this offseason (link below). The market for selling tickets definitely seems more flooded, and it's harder to sell a ticket if you need to. This increase is still encouraging and can only show an increase in student interest. Plus, every week there are freshmen who are too hungover or blackout and don't make it to games. I assume you all remember your first beer too.
If you're not there till the second quarter...and leave at the start of the 4th.
Oh, wait, I get it...standing makes one invisible...
You can wake up any Saturday and drink. You're not seriously telling me you don't party on non-football Saturdays?
Minnesota and Purdue don't provide a compelling reason to get up early on a Saturday morning. Going back to 2006, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary yesterday.
The compelling reason shouldn't be the opponent. It should be the chance to watch Michigan play. Don't waste it.
drinking to much to far away and not waring a watch so that way they show up on time knowing whats going on
No fans get to call out the students period. I was disspaointed with how late people showed up to the game this week (as a student), but this is the first week it really happened after kickoff which is all that matters. The michigan fanbase has been pathetic for years outside of the student section and i've been to other stadiums. Our student section is on par with every student section i've ever been in, the rest of the fanbase not so much. This weekend was bad, i'll admit that but this is also midterm week/hallloween/ who gives a fuck if you aren't a die hard fan its fucking purdue. I don't blame students for leaving early when it starts raining and they have 3 midterms and papers do this week.
It wasn't even completely filled. There were empty patches near the top. That's a little ridiculous for a Big Ten opponent
And surprise surprise, Halloween is kind of big on college campuses... So the Purdue game was obviously somewhat overshadowed. That would explain Saturday's empty student section at the start of the game.
Generally though, I think it's best to avoid sweeping generalizations on trends in student attendance, because you can't base a statement like "the students are so apathetic nowadays!" off of scanty anecdotal evidence and your own personal (Re: biased/innacurate) recollection of the past. Can you show me some statistical data that proves there is a definite trend towards students showing up later/skipping more games in 2011 than in 1981, 1991, or 2001?
As a student and a diehard, I always show up at least 20 minutes before the game (in time to see the band entrance) and often don't leave until after the post-game band show and the alma mater. Do very many of my fellow students join me? No. But I seriously doubt this is all that different from what went on in the past, with the exception that, due to the past three very disappointing years, I'd say it's possible there has been a slight decrease in overall "football enthusiasm" among U-M students.
Too cool, too many BMWs
Hanes Walton Jr., is that you?
This comment is just stupid. If you are upset that there are students who were/are more privileged than you were/are, that's your problem. Correlating those things with football attendance is nonsensical and exposes you as petty and a hater. Yes, there are a lot of dbags who happen to be well-off and think they hit a triple when just born on 3rd. But there are a lot of jackasses who don't have BMWs as well. Also, loving Michigan does not require a love for Michigan football.
I'm sorry I prefer getting pumped for the game with my best friends and utilizing the free beer while I can. It's just the better alternative to waiting in lines for overpriced food and watching a clock tick down. My goal every Saturday is to see Michigan touch the banner, and sometimes I see it, others times I don't. I went early and saw the band before being a student and I will as an alum, but for now I'll see them when I finally sit down at halftime.
As far as bashing us as "too rich, too entitled, too spoiled, too cool, too many BMWs", we ARE Michigan. Without us and the alums before us there would be no Bo, no Des, no Woodson, no Harmon, and no Hoke. Don't bash your institution. You may as well be a Buckeye or Spartan calling us scUM if you're going to generalize about 30,000 people you do not know.
Compared to loud minority of students who drive the BMW's, live in Zaragon (luxary apartments), and party 3-4 nights per week, there are larger masses of students who swipe m-cards into cafiterias, wash dishes, and work really hard to get through college. Step into any class (except for maybe Ross) and you'll see this.
There could have been 0 people in the stands and they would have reported 112,000. It's based on tickets sold not the actual number of people that utilized those tickets.
Also 70% of the stadium left early, this was probably the wrong game to point out. regardless I for one blast the entire michigan fanbase. I am a student and am dissapointed with our students (this is more a reflection of basketball than anything else). The rest of the fanbase isn't really that great. We support our team finnancially and that is obviously very important but i had always heard michigan was the wine and cheese crowd and these two and a half years of football haven't really dispelled that notion for me even though some of my best moments at school are because of sports, its generally because the people I watch with also our passionate. Bashing the students is something people like to do here and I just always find it ironic given the generall apathy and lack of passion for all MICHIGAN sports among the fanbase as a whole. How many bball games has the op been to over the last two years? soccer games? hockey games? Being a MICHIGAN fan isn't all about football and until the rest of the fanbase shows up for other events, there is no ground here for anyone to call out students.
I hope you're not majoring in spelling and grammar.
Cry about it. We students are having fun and are still louder than anyone else in the stadium. Its not that we don't care, it's us enjoying the whole gameday experience. Be a fan in your own way, but don't tell us how to do it.
Lulz.. Alright brah
As a student, this one kind of hits home, but it's true. As a 3rd gen student and die hard fan, I was shocked about how little people tended to care about the game. Some students don't even think about watching the away games. On campus, there are other things to do. Some students only pre-game and party, then skip the game. Some have too much work, and leave early. The problem is that the importance of football isn't a part of the culture at Michigan.
Passionate students like me should try to re-create this culture. Not only should we be at the game early, but we should bring people who would not normally do the same. This is why I refused to let my friends leave with 5 minutes left in the game while it was raining. And some of these friends left after Smith's touchdown vs. ND becaus they thought the game was over. It's all about the culture of the school.
can we all just get along, and try to pull in the same direction for five or six more games?
There's plenty of time in the offseason to debate this topic.
We should get rid of assigned seats in the student section. Nobody uses them anyways, and it would encourage students to get to the stadium earlier. It would also be nice to restart the whole "Be early, Be loud" campaign.
Except for the fact that I'm a Junior and my class would be getting totally hosed. I spent two years with crappy endzone seats and as an engineering student I don't have enough time to compete with all the freshman psych majors who would be lining up at 8am
I feel you. I'm a freshman engineering student. I'm sure your workload exceeds mine. I have enough time on the weekend if I get focused on Thursday and Friday. Be honest: do you really do any work early Saturday morning?
I feel like I'm reading ND Nation with all this whining.
There is just as much, if not more, whining here as ND Nation and RCMB. We even won this weekend.
I am proud of the fact, yet completely surprised, that there weren't 15 threads about Jason Avant not saying "Michigan" during player introductions tonight.
Youth is wasted on the young.
We have a huge stadium. This means that every student who wants a ticket gets a ticket. And there are plenty of students who are fair weather/non-fans who get tickets with the intention of going to the big games and skipping the poor ones.
But its a good problem to have: at Oregon, they have 3,000 student tickets for 20,000 undergrads. At places like Arizona, they sell you a sports pass. Don't show up 2 hours before kickoff? Shit out of luck despite already paying in.
So some students didn't show up for Purdue. Did it really affect the atmosphere that much? I doubt it. It certainly didn't affect performance on the field. And I guarantee that it will be rocking again for the remaining two home games.
Fergodsakes if your gonna go to a football game dont tell the people who want to watch to sit down. Yea it was miserable to go to the msu game to be told by my own fanbase to sit. And also, ever notice how when we start the wave it never makes it on the home sideline. Gee wonder who sits there... The students havnt gotten worse in my 4 years but the alumni have IMO.
If you show up to a football game in skinny jeans, Im hoping you leave early. Skinny Jeans are the most embarrassing thing to see on people.
Students should get to the games on time. But this is an age-old problem. It was true when I was on campus. For the noon games, the student section was always half-empty at kickoff unless it was a really big game. To be fair, I think most students want to get in the stadium on time, but they just don't plan ahead, and all of a sudden it's 11:45 and they've got to hustle to get to the Big House.
This never seems to be an issue for the 3:30 games.
This has been the case for me far too many times. Getting some good drinking going and time sneaks up on you, especially when you live a decent walk from the stadium. For 3:30 games, you basically have to pace yourself to make it to the game, so you're much more aware of what time it is.
Still, I'd take someone who was there for 80% of the game but spent the whole time standing, cheering, and making noise when we're on D over someone who's at the enitre game seated and silent any day of the week.
I wish they would go to general seating in the student section. It would encourage early arrivals and prevent the sorostitues from coming in 5 minutes into the 2nd quarter and demanding their seats, just so they can leave at halftime.
I say make the student section general admission. Some people may not like it and may choose not to buy tickets, but that's fine. Those are the people whose seats usually end up empty anyway.
But I just hope Lloyd Brady can get there early enough to get to his seat!
(although it is nice to get better seats with seniority)
That would make sense if you were gaurenteed better seats with seniority. My best seats were junior year which were barely better than my seats sophomore year.
Were you in a group? Because that probably would explain things.
I think the general seating idea is horrible. In fact, I think it's important that upper classmen are closer to the action. It's sort of a right of passage with Michigan football. As you learn more about the program and have experienced the program more, you get closer to the field. That's how it should be.
If there really is a problem, see if it's going on in the other sports. Are people becoming more apathetic towards athletics? Is Yost worse? Is Crisler going to be worse? Is this specific to football and what's the root cause? Are we complaining about this game or several games this season?
The majority of the games I have been to at the Big House over the years have not been "big" games. I went to 05-Penn State (Henne to Manningham) and 04-MSU (Braylonfest) but the 35 other games I have been to were against the lower Big Ten teams and MAC teams. Despite that, I never remember seeing the student section that empty at the kickoff until this year. Yesterday, it was about 40% full. For the Minnesota game 4 weeks ago, it was about 20% full.
The entire stadium is packed except for that one section. I get the argument that Michigan has not looked like Michigan the last 3 years and that many of the students have not lived and breathed Michigan football like the rest of us have for so many years but damn...no students for the pregame where the marching band forms that block M and plays the greatest fight song in the land is just too weird. It's depressing.
Bottom Line is Students are here at University of Michigan for the EDUCATION. So if a student can't go because of studying, are you blaming him/her for that???? I mean come on, we all got a life.
Yep. Lots of studying happening on South U on Saturday 15 minutes before kick off.
I think the biggest problem with the student section is that we all have assigned seats. You can show up whenever and you always have your same seat. In my 3 years as a student im yet to miss a pregame, but obviously a lot of my fellow students cant say the same. Even for the basketball games, no assigned seats, everyone is there on time trying to get the best seat. We should switch and do like a lot of schools do and make it first come first serve, you would take care of the problem real quick.
When I was a student (graduated Spring 2002)...we didn't have anywhere near that bad of attendance or a stupid "you suck" chant -- mind you these students do the you suck chant when our team was down 5 scores a couple years ago. This has nothing to do with the excuse that many kids come from out of state - our numbers of out of state kids were the same a decade ago. Half of the students I went to the game with were out of state. This has to do with so many kids today being fair weather fans. I have heard plenty of fans and other alumni that do not visit MGoBlog complain about the students.
P.S. I had to walk to the game through 6 miles of snow. But in all seriousness, this student section is a disappointment if it isn't a big game like against Notre Dame.
What else can MGoBoard find to get upset with during a 7-1 start? Jesus, you people are terrible.
The play-calling, the music, the ads, the I-form, the students, the alumni, the "branding", the loathsome former coaches, the quarterback usage..my god, why do some of you even fucking bother if it's so terrible?
Yep, pissing contest, which is sad that Michigan fans have to find this topic to argue. Only thing I noticed, watching this on tv, since I don't live close to A2, is the shots of the stadium right before kick off and that huge block of emptiness in the corner of the endzone. Looks pretty bad, never notice that happening prior to a Penn State, Wisky, or hell even OSU game. May have all the excuses in the world, but it still looks bad.
So blasting Seven Nation Army and Ozzy Osbourne over the loudspeakers isn't creating a more passionate fan base? God, I'm just shocked.
Looks like we need more crazy jerseys and a cute furry mascot.
One of my degrees is from Alabama. When I was there -- Ray Perkins/Bull Curry years, not great teams except for Curry's last one -- the student section was always packed at kick-off, and that was back when half the games were played 60 miles from campus, at Legion Field in B'ham (not a particularly good part fo town, either). Higher percentage of students who grew up passionate Bama fans? Without question, but going to the games is also a bigger part of the culture there. I didn't grow up a passionate Bama fan, hardly cared about Bama at all even when I was a student, but I was in the stadium well before kick-off. The passion for Michigan football lies largely outside the student body, at least these days.
Sad. I've noticed that the last few years, since I started trekking back for a game a year, or so.
If you can't juggle school, football, and partying you don't belong at Michigan.
Unless you're a grad student who went here for undergrad, you have never seen a respectable team until possibly this year. Sorry, but you can show all of the Michigan historic pride you want, but it's difficult to get too amped when your team was losing to Toledo as a freshman, Purdue as a sophomore, and getting absolutely manhandled by any moderately respectable school as a junior, it is tough to really be that passionate. Let Hoke run off a few great seasons, the pride will be filled back with the students, and you will see a better student section.
You can't call them fair weather fans, since they've only been here when it's been shitty.
Under that logic, the freshmen right now (myseld included) will be big fans because of the UTL game and the fact that we're 6-0 at home with a chance for two more huge home wins, there could be a turnaround. Only time will tell.
Honestly, though, I think that most students plan to arrive on time, but lose track of timing and end up getting to the game after kickoff. When we are up big on a team like Purdue and mid-terms are soon, some students are going to leave. It happened when my sister was a student in the Lloyd Carr days.
Make the seats available to people who want to show up by kickoff. If students can't drag their asses to the stadium until the second quarter, then they clearly don't have that much of an interest in attending the games in person.
It was a huge point of pride back 5-6 years ago and all years before. Again, how can kids be this die hard about football when the only thing at their school that has not been superior to their big 10 counterparts is football? I am at every game by kickoff, but I can't blame the people who have sat through three years of the dark ages of michigan football.
If anything, you all should sympathize that every other student in the history of Michigan (after 1900) got to see multiple awesome teams, while these poor souls got to see RR for their first 3 years. Granted, it's a first world problem, but you'd be pretty pissed off too if you came into the debacle that was the RR tenure. I bet you by the time these freshmen become seniors, you will see a much better / more passionate student section.
Folks who are more current with ticket validation can enlighten me if they wish. Back in the day, students could easily dump their tickets if they didn't want to go to the game. Now, it appears they have to give them to other students or force the non-student purchaser to trek over to will-call and pay a hefty validation fee. I recall robust student ticket market in the 80's and 90's. As a result, the NW corner filled relatively quickly before kickoff.
You guys are crazy, everyone here is talking about how awesome the stadium used to be. I wouldn't think I'd have to remind people that during these glory years of fandom you all remember the Michigan fanbase was being called a wine and cheese crowd and the quietest 100k you will ever here. Before I came to school here I routinely heard Michigan stadium was one of the most dissapointing atmospheres in football. Now this year that perception is beginning to change and all I see here is bitching about the crowd, get off your damn high horse it was and has always been the same for every student section in the country for noon games no matter how awesome you remember yourself being
This is Michigan (fergodsakes). There are but 7-8 home games per year, so that's 7-8 chances to see Denard Robinson work his magic. I sure as hell wouldn't take that for granted. You paid money to see these games...why wouldn't you show up on time? You need to study? That's what Sunday's for. You were hungover?Well, maybe you shouldn't party so hard before a noon game...that's what Saturday nights are for. These are all excuses, not valid reasons. Think the football team is afforded the luxury of extra study time or partying? Hell no. Think the Band is ever late to a game? To quote Revelli, "To be early is to be on time, to be on time is to be late, to be late is to be forgotten." So sac up and show up when the game starts, no matter what time it starts. You bought the tickets, so it's your obligation to maximize their entertainment value (or give/sell them to someone else who wants them). You have no idea how awesome of an experience you're missing until you can no longer go every week. I live out of state...I get to come back for maybe one game a year. It makes me more homesick than anything. And I get to pay a lovely price of $200 per ticket to see OSU...on top of a $300+ plane ticket.
So, all's I'm saying is don't take it for granted.
Oh I want to go back...I gotta go back...
I'm a freshman. My seat is near the top of the bowl. I like football too much to sit there. I walk into the stadium, and instantly go down to near the middle of the bowl. As you approach row 30 or 40, the stands get really crowded, there isn't much room to stand. Plenty of other freshmen are like me. This is why the top of the stands sometimes looks empty.
Are some students late? Yes, but it isn't as extreme as you would expect because students congregate lower in the bowl. If you stand you make more room.