At What Point Is Enough, Enough?
First, I am a Rich Rodriguez fan and I really want him to succeed here, at Michigan. But when is it time to pull the plug? Mark Dantonio has as many conference wins in Ann Arbor as RichRod has....and Ron Zook could match that soon.
I think Rich Rod is a great coach and he seems like a good guy. I know he never has gotten a fair shake here from a lot of people. But it is starting to look like he isn't a good fit for Michigan. I don't buy the idea that his offense won't work in the Big Ten, so I am not saying that. I'm sure that I will get neg'd for asking the question, but that is all I am doing.
For the record, I would love to see him succeed here and make a lot of people eat crow. But I am starting to have doubts about the possibility of that happening.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:24 AM ^
Ok, but you still have to explain how some players did develop...
October 17th, 2010 at 2:31 AM ^
That's what 99% of players do when they get older. Not something to celebrate.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:24 PM ^
You guys need to let people have opions other than "Rich Rod is awesome, nothing is his fault."
I like RR too, but we look like a joke out there. We can't even get a FG past the line of scrimmage without getting blocked, we kicked TWICE out of bounds in the fourth quarter, our defense makes me want to leap off a bridge - it's a parade of errors and embarassment. I'm not saying "Fire Rich Rod!," but we look like a joke out there. If you can't realize that you're living in a fantasy world.
There may be excuses for looking like a joke (youth, bad recruiting by Lloyd at the end, etc.), but it doens't change the facts. Back off people who have a different mindset than the Brian Cook party line. This shit is getting old.
I can't wait till you guys neg me even though I personally agree with all of you.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:29 PM ^
It happens after every loss. We moved the ball well against a great D. How did we look like a joke?
I'm personally not angry about dissent, I'm angry that people can't stop beating this horse that is just so epically dead. If we had just lost to Toledo again, fine, but we're 5-2 with losses against two very good teams. We don't need to keep having this conversation. Wait until the end of the season and judge Rodriguez's body of work at that point.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:26 PM ^
At what point is enough, enough?
I don't know but it's not when we're 5-2 with two losses to top 15 teams in the middle of a season where almost all of us predicted they would finish with 7 or 8 wins.
ffs people, IT'S OKAY
October 16th, 2010 at 11:29 PM ^
Our inexperience is definitely showing this season, especially on defense. Yet we are still 5-2 and have a reasonable shot to be 8-4 heading into a bowl game. All the freshmen and sophomores playing this season so extensively will help us in the future. Next season should be even better. Come 2012, when we have to play such a tough schedule, we should have a badass amount of talent and experience ready for that championship run.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:35 PM ^
I literally went from being a big RR supporter to meh! and apathetic about his future during this game today. Here's why:
We are 11 weeks into this season and they have regressed. MSU and Iowa didn't beat, WE BEAT OURSELVES FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME.
Special Teams is a joke. How do you kick the ball out of bounds TWICE? How do you get more blcoked field goals than made field goals in a season? Take the schollies of our placekickers and send them out of here . . . THEY SUCK! They made the defense even worse than they already are. What is RROD and his assisntant doing . . . special teams is worse today than it was at the beginning of the year (except for Hagerup). How does this happen?
Defense. I'm not optmistic at all abou this defense this year or next year. They are slow, out of position, and can't hit. Two solid hits on receivers today . . . just two. They get run over, passed over. And it just doesn't get any better. At least, this D should be able to get to "below average" . . . but the Coaches can't bring the D and that's an indictment on the coaching staff.
Now I like offense as much as the next guy. BUT YOU GOT TO SCORE DAMMIT! Putting 520 yards up on Iowa doesn't win football games. How do you only generate 28 points on 520 yards. This is 2008/2009 all over again. A team can move up and down the field but doesn't get TDs. Why are committing penalties and turning the ball over repeatedly. And the coaches don't do a darn thing about it. What is the coaching staff doing? Pull these guys off the field when they do stupid stuff. Sittem, makem run in practice, carry a freaken ball around campus all day . . . I don't care. But's don't give this BS about young, inexperience players. This offense has a year and half playing together, 19 games together and we don't score TDs on good teams.
So, I'm ticked and I'm pretty darn close to breaking. I don't if these coaches can develop talent. I think this staff and RRod is to stubborn to succeed here. And, we cannot continue to lose home games against good competition where we self destruct. We are the Detroit Lions of the Big 10. And, this has to end, one way or another. If RRod pulls the team together and wins 3. Great. If he only wins one, I want him and his staff issued bus tickets out of town.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:13 AM ^
Lloyd Brady is sad! What have we done? Fire RichRod now!!!
October 16th, 2010 at 11:49 PM ^
Whose fault is it that we can't kick a field goal?
Whose fault is it that we can't return kicks/punts?
Whose fault is it that we can't cover kicks/punts?
Whose fault is it we continue to commit crippling penalties?
I think that ultimately Rich Rod should take at least SOME responsibility for those things. Given our youth on defense, we simply CANNOT win games and make errors in those facets of the game. I guess I'm repeating myself, but can't you be disappointed with coaching without calling for someone's head?
Some of the defenders who are constantly claiming that the detractors aren't realistic also could use a healthy dose of reality. We don't look like a well-coached team out there other than on offense -and even our offense struggles with penalties.
I hate to break it to you, but Iowa is not a top ten defense, despite their stats. They've played two competent offenses (us and Arizona) and both lit them up - the rest of their opponents were pathetic.
I think Rich Rod should get his full five years - the school should honor the contract and he should get a fair shake. But that doesn't mean he should get a pass when it comes to fan critiques.
If this post is so stupid why are there nearly 100 responses?
GO BLUE!
October 17th, 2010 at 3:12 AM ^
that the return game looked better and more aggressive today with Gallon out there.
I don't think our coverage teams are doing too badly (no stats too back this up) when taking the kicking into account.
As for the Kicking....sigh..... kickers are a crap shoot -- I noticed that Anthony Fera - the kicker we recruited prior to Gibbons (they were rated similarly depending on the recruiting site) is now doing the punting for Penn State but apparently is also not good enough after 2 years on campus to do field goal kicking duties.
The ONE penalty (mentioned early in the post) that was irresponsible was the Lewan PF -- really put a monkey wrench in the momentum of the game -- but this is a 19 y.o. kid who needs to grow up but who was lining up against perhaps the best defensive end in the country as a RS Frosh and did a pretty damn fine job when he wasn't losing his senses...
(wow - I feel better now..)
October 17th, 2010 at 4:38 AM ^
Quick response to the penatly/special teams thing:
Coming into today's game, Michigan was one of the least penalized teams in the country, averaging just 4.5/game. That's pretty good for a young team.
Over the last three games, Hagerup has averaged, 48, 47 and 50 yards/punt. For reference, the best punter in the country averages 48.5.
Yeah, the kick returning has been kinda meh, and yeah, we can't find a field goal kicker (which is not uncommon in college football), but the idea that penalties and special teams are KILLING US is a little far fetched. Most of the special teams problems today came from one guy: Broekhuizen.
If you wanna rip RichRod for not putting together a good defense, OK. But blaming him for his kicker inexplicably booting two out of bounds, or for Taylor Lewan getting another personal foul, is a bit much. It's college football. Shit happens. Even to good teams.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:53 PM ^
Iowa averaged 6.38 YPP
Michigan averaged 6.06. Not that 6.06 is bad, but let's not act like we had a better offensive performance just because we ran more plays.
October 17th, 2010 at 12:01 AM ^
People are pointing out that we basically went toe to toe with a very good team (top 10-15 this year after winning the Orange Bowl last year and returning a good portion of that squad) that nobody doing a reasoned analysis of the two rosters should have expected us to beat. When you consider how much damage going -4 in turnover margin does, a ten point loss against Iowa can be a positive sign for a young team that is growing and rebuilding.
No one is saying "This was good." They are saying (rightly) that "This indicates that the future (when we have a starting lineup full of upperclassmen) is going to be awesome."
October 17th, 2010 at 2:41 AM ^
with relying on TO's to explain the score is that these turnovers were forced. Well the three interceptions arguably shouldn't have been thrown. Not exactly a case of a downswing/negative variance.
October 16th, 2010 at 11:59 PM ^
Enough was enough a while ago. He gone.
October 17th, 2010 at 12:12 AM ^
Spending a little too much time on the RCMB, are we?
October 17th, 2010 at 12:17 AM ^
Nah. Figured a little slang might pass on this sh1t show of a MB.
October 17th, 2010 at 12:05 AM ^
It's a little early to write off the entire season. If someone had told us at the beginning of the season that Michigan would definitely start 5-2, I am guessing most of us would have been pretty happy with it.
Wins over PSU, Illinois, and Purdue are very possible, and would give Michigan eight wins going into OSU. Since OSU proved today that they aren't invincible, I would be very happy to see Michigan 8-3 going in.
October 17th, 2010 at 12:18 AM ^
I think a big part of the negative reaction is how we lost. If it had been a close game, where we traded scores with Iowa the whole game and lost by a nose at the end... we all walk away feeling relatively okay. But when your opponent scores 4 straight TDs and you find yourself down 28-7 starting the 4th quarter... well you spend a lot of time yelling at your TV and popping Maalox.
Nonetheless, I like the fight I saw in the 4th quarter. Go Blue!
October 17th, 2010 at 3:15 AM ^
Exactly. Had Michigan lost a close game to a superior team people would be disappointed but more understanding. This season, against superior opponents, Michigan has been blown out (MSU) and averted a blowout but still lost (today against Iowa). In 19 Big Ten games across 2.375 seasons, has Michigan played a superior opponent close from beginning to end?
October 17th, 2010 at 12:21 AM ^
October 17th, 2010 at 12:28 AM ^
What appearance are you talking about exactly?
Trust me, I'd love to be positive, but all of this "we are headed in the right direction" stuff etc. is clueless. There is no evidence to believe that. Did Iowa really look like a top 15 team? no. Come on.
October 17th, 2010 at 10:39 AM ^
Before the season, when you looked at our schedule, did you think to yourself, "Iowa looks like a team we should ABSOLUTELY beat.". If you did, with the current state of our roster, you're kind of a delusional homer. Nothing has changed on our team since then that would make me believe otherwise.
October 17th, 2010 at 12:25 AM ^
RR should get through next season regardless. GERG as well.
October 17th, 2010 at 12:57 AM ^
I agree RR will be sticking around at least another year (unless we lose out and don't make a bowl game). Let's say we finish 7-5 (win 2 of the next 3) which is very realistic and a bit conservative.
This shows tremendous progress over a 5-7 team. As bad as we looked in the first half/part of the 3rd quarter under denard he still rushed for 100+ yards and threw decently efficient.
It's not the offensive scheme at this point, its teaching fundementals like tackling, not getting penalties and holding onto the ball. That being said, Tate really proved himself today in my eyes. He threw a couple bad picks but the one at the end was a losing situation anyways, he had to force the ball. I'm hoping Rich Rod can teach these kids some crazy plays this week with 2 qbs on the field at once. Then we'll see some real exciting football.
October 17th, 2010 at 1:02 AM ^
Right now there is zero progress. I guess you can assume we will win a Big Ten game goin g forward, but I don't think that's a lock.
Do the fundamentals come into the game play year 4, or should I look for them in maybe year 5? I'm looking forward to seeing them, so I don't want to miss out.
I look forward to the 2 QB set as well. That sounds cool! Go Blue! Denard!
October 17th, 2010 at 1:15 AM ^
It's a shame we don't play minnesota this year...
Again, like last week it was just a few plays that cost us this game. The botched field goal, kovacs missing that int (granted i have nothing wrong with kovacs, he is one of our more consistent defensive players), the vincent smith fumble and the fail of a tackle that ended our seemingly destined comeback. I agree they still have a lot to prove before we can say we have improved but the talent on the field is amazing, its just getting it all to mesh for the whole game, not just the 4th quarter when we're desperate.
One position I will say 10000% has made progress, our backup center. Compared to last year when we lost Molk, this game showed that we have some depth there now which is very encouraging.
October 17th, 2010 at 4:30 AM ^
"we don't play minnesota this year"
Totally this. Minny is wretched this season. At least we play them next season, I think they may even get worse since their current QB is a senior. Also yes Khoury , I think he's the backup and he played well. The o-line played well overall, except towards the end when Iowa knew we had to throw and was putting pressure on Tate.
October 17th, 2010 at 4:49 AM ^
I don't know if I'd call 7-5 "tremendous" progress. Not saying it isn't progress or anything, but tremendous is a little strong. Of course it'd be better than 5-7.
The offense is playing much better this year, true. However as everyone knows the D is just plain bad. And last season we had senior kickers, but this year they're a liability.
"2qbs at once"
No.
October 17th, 2010 at 12:37 AM ^
I know you guys aren't the most objective group in the lot, but did that really look like a well coached football team out there the last two weeks when it actually mattered? Have we digressed so much that we accept this stuff? I don't.
October 17th, 2010 at 1:31 AM ^
I don't understand the "fitting in" thing. Either he wins or he doesn't. That kind of determines if he "fits in" at Michigan.
October 17th, 2010 at 3:43 AM ^
I support richrod but FIRE THE MOTHERFUCKING MOTHERFUCKER. Nice train of thought you have there OP.
October 17th, 2010 at 3:52 AM ^
1. I'm sick of seeing the same shit every fucking Saturday when we play. Robinson should not be the starting quarterback because he has PROVEN he CAN NOT HANDLE A BIG TEN DEFENSE! Foricer can put him in too.
2. I am sick of seeing our defensive secondary play like a pop warner team out there with their heads cut off. This defense is a joke and we are going to get our asses kicked come November 27th.
3. Our fans fucking booed us at halftime? It has replaced Go Blue.
4. Receviers don't know how to catch the football worth shit! Too many dropped passes today and it was fucking pathetic watching easy passes dropped.
5. OUR KICKING GAME IS THE BIGGEST FUCKING JOKE IN NCAA DIVISION 1 FOOTBALL! What the hell are we going to do when it's 21-23, were down and have the ball on the 39 with .4 seconds left in the 4th?! On a 4th and 10?! Go for it too?
No, no fuck this. I'm done watching this team for the season. Stop fooling yourselves Rich Rod believers because your not fooling anyone else. All the mods and know it alls on this board are just repressing the issue and the more they do it the more they are going to finally realize sooner or later "man what the fuck was I thinking?" Until Michigan improves and starts to win again I'm done. If you people here believe he's really our answer then please get an MRI ASAP.
4.
October 17th, 2010 at 9:28 AM ^
October 17th, 2010 at 5:55 AM ^
The fact that you appear to believe that the amount of current discontent is equivalent to the amount during Carr's later years should be alarming to you and your doctors.
October 17th, 2010 at 6:05 AM ^
Seems to be an exceedingly large number of injuries to key personnel, especially after the last two games playing stronger teams in the Big Ten. While injuries are part of the game, should M be having this many, especially considering the conditioining program they go through with Barwiss? Seems like in the battle of physicality, M is losing, and this shouldn't be.
Mental errors happen with a young team, was glad to see no quit, and they were in a position to still be in the game in the 4th quarter against a quality team, I won't say better, because I don't think Iowa is that good. Solid players but very vanilla play calling.
October 17th, 2010 at 9:50 AM ^
I am wavering a bit, because I see the the same fundamental and discipline errors week after week like its Groundhog Day. At some point, young roster or not, you need to at least see improvement on the simple things.
I am wavering a bit because RR, or GERG, or a combination of both, seem to be some stubborn ol' cusses. Stephen Hopkins, and Kenny Demens did not play perfect games, but when they are given the opportunity, they make plays more often than they don't. Why Vince seems to be our powerback option is either stubbornness or insanity. Kenny had a couple of nice series, why on earth would you put Obi back in, only to see him get trucked? This stubbornness leaves me to wonder who else is on the roster can make plays if given the opportunity to do so?
The reason why I am just wavering, and not just completely over it at this point, is we are still beat the teams this year that we should beat. Granted, I hate losing to rivals, and I hate getting down but a couple of scores 2 weeks in a row at home. I would have felt a lot better if we were in the whole game, but it is not unforgiveable to me to lose to MSU and Iowa considering how young,thin, and untalented we are at a lot of defensive positions. A couple of our veterans probably wouldn't even be playing under most circumstances.
The next 3 games are critical. I view PSU,Purdue, and Illinois as teams we should beat. We need to beat teams like this to make me think that there was progress made this year.
October 17th, 2010 at 11:20 AM ^
too bad our D sucks on an epic level
October 17th, 2010 at 11:33 AM ^
We are very close to being the team we want to be....1 or 2 plays the last two weeks and who knows how things would shape up. Just off the top for yesterday's games:
1. Lewan penalty on 2nd drive completely kills offensive momentum. Could have gone up 2 scores there.
2. Kovac dropping the pick...don't think he would have scored but we would have gotten the ball back in very good field position
3. 2 kicks going OOB
4. V. Smit just flat out dropping the ball after being barely touched
5. Denard with yet another shitty pick deep when he had an open outlet man short
These are the signs of youth....another year under their belt and we could be incredibly strong Offensively. Defense.....we're fucked there for at least another 2 years unfortunately. I would support a GERG firing if it means we get a better recruiter on that side of the ball.
October 17th, 2010 at 6:10 PM ^
I have a lot of beefs with Greg Robinson, however, Michigan's defensive recruitment the last 2 years has had 1 five star, and 8 four star recruits (and Jibreel Black, who I felt should have been a four star) and that's not terrible. Plus next year's D has at least 2 more 4 star recruits who've verbally committed (Holliwell and Beyer) and recruiting not even close to done yet.
October 19th, 2010 at 8:55 PM ^
So you think there is no room for improvement? No one who could do a better job recruiting even though Brian has repeatedly said that GERG is known for not being active in the recruiting process because he doesn't like it? I would imagine that only having position coaches do the heavy recruiting has to be a detriment to the process in the eyes of a 5* who probably are used to the HC even showing some interest.
October 19th, 2010 at 9:25 PM ^
If you want an example of how long it can take to make a culture change in a program, the best current example is South Carolina. The bottom feeder mentality that was pervasive in that program, institution and fan base is not all that different to the malaise and sense of entitlement to 9 wins that was pervasive in this institution and its fan base. We are supposed to win because we are Michigan. We are talented and smarter than lesser programs. We will just win because of who we are. The malaise had gotten right into the very core of the program.
Change is hard. Culture change is hard. It was hard for Spurrier to convince the team, institution and fan base at Southern Carolina that 6-6 was not a great year and that if they worked hard, recruited well that they could play with anyone and they could build a winning program. It has taken him six years, but Spurrier has done it.
Now for our program, how long till the change happens that people understant that winning year in and year out is hard work, that 9-3 is not good enough, that you have to recruit guys who will work till they puke, who are "all in." How long till you recruit guys who will play fast and hard, who are more teachable than talented (though they will be talented too), guys who are hungry to win, who will compete all the time from the weight room to the classroom to the playing field? I know that RR has done this before, but I also think that this is his hardest turn around project because of the sense of entitlement that was institutionally pervasive. Many still do not believe that we were a turn around project. RR exposed the truth of the program and many hate him for that. I think he will get it done if he has the time. But culture change takes time. If it can take Spurrier six years to make South Carolina into a beast, I am content to endure a few 6-6 seasons if the foundation is being laid for the long term success of the program. I like what I see so far and if the trend continues, in 2-4 years we will be a perenial contender for the national title.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:28 PM ^
I asked a simple question and stated my doubts. Instead of getting an answer to my question, I get neg'd down 50+ points and told in a round about way that I am stupid for worrying about the direction of the program. I would like someone to tell me what was so wrong with what I asked......