I'm assuming you've been in the practices? If so, thanks for the info!
to play football, not to play trumpet
I'm assuming you've been in the practices? If so, thanks for the info!
Thank you for your info, I don't care where you got it, just that it's here.
Nice. It looks like Vincent Smith is our only RB who can catch, which kinda sucks, but I think Toussaint could be really good. I really want DG to redshirt. He could even be a 4 year starter if he does.
That's my exact mindset, I feel we'll get a similar record from Tate, DG, or Denard so why waste a year of DG's eligibility? Plus I feel that with a year under his belt he'll be the bonafide starter next year, and Denard being the best slot guy in the NCAA.
The one thing that sucks about this situation is that RR knows he needs to win, and he'll play DG if he thinks that might even slightly raise our chance to win. Even if his playing helps us win 1 more game, I don't think that's worth it, but RR will. I think RR did a good job of not wasting redshirts last year, except for Vlad.
not only would I disagree with you that that's somehow not "worth it"; I'd freaking DEMAND IT! (I don't have any technical opinion about Devin one way or another.)
You're right, in noting that the team did not waste any redshirts last year, and I'm okay with that too.
But geeze, I don't want our guys to win simply to raise a gigantic middle finger to the anti-Rodriguez media; I want our guys to win, period. I'll be happy to supply a large middle finger later on.
I agree totally, if burning DG's redshirt helps us win one more game this season, I'm for it. RR can't afford to be patient, and neither can we/
Really? For 1 more win? If he reshirted, he would have another season, which could definitely mean a differnce of 3-4 wins. We might not get another high profile QB guy for a couple years because we've got good, young QBs. A 5th year DG could lead us to 10+ wins. A sophomore or junior behind him who has never really played could mean 7.
Someone hasn't heard of Kevin Sousa
I don't want to waste his redshirt year, but we have to win this year. There will always be other QBs. I do doubt he'll be that much better then DR or TF, but I've gone beyond wanting to save it....just win and do it with your best guys. If we win in the next 2 years, the recruits will be back as well...
What if that "one more win" was against Ohio State? Worth it.
No true freshman QB. can be expected to win even one game for a team. There is a long history there, with QB's even more heralded than DG, and very very seldom does their play lead a team to a win. I want him to redshirt because it is entirely unlikely that playing him will be any advantage over playing Tate/Denard.
With Barkley, USC destroyed OSU, and without him the following week they lost to unranked Washington. USC couldn't move the ball in the air with Aaron Corp, a redshirt sophomore, five-star recruit (scout, 4-star rivals) who worked with the 1st team during Spring Camp.
I'm not arguing that Michigan has a comparable situation, just contesting the logic that true freshman QBs can't possibly contribute, even to a team that already has first-rate prospects at the position with more experience. It's clear that they can contribute, and from what we've been hearing, DG is playing well.
They didn't destroy OSU; they won by three points (18-15) in an ugly, defense-dominated game. Barkley did play well on the game-winning drive but otherwise turned in a shaky performance.
In general, when you trot a true freshman out there, you've got to brace yourself for a lot of mistakes. He may make good plays to offset them (Henne certainly did in '04) but not always. After the last two seasons, I've had my fill of freshman QBs for awhile.
Joe McKnight was the key to their final drive, not barkley (who only completed 2 passes and one was to mcknight)
I misremembered the USC-Ohio State game. I still think that it's the case that Barkley played well, both relative to Aaron Corp (who passed for only 110 yards against a Washington team that gave up an average of 241 passing yards/game), and to other Ohio St. opponents (Barkley passed for 195 yards against Ohio State, while Ohio St. opponents averaged 171 passing yards/game)..
A hypothetical situation. Say playing DG is the difference between 6-6 and 7-5. Maybe he steps in for one series and breaks a 75-yard run, or something. Figuring that 7-5 will result in Rodriguez's job being saved, and 6-6 puts him on somewhat of a brink, would you take it? Or would you risk that the next coach will be someone who has no connection to Gardner? What if Gardner transfers? I know it's easy to say, "Well, any coach could use someone like Gardner." But you could say the same thing about Ryan Mallett. It might be worth sacrificing one year so that we can get three more out of him, rather than zero. It's not necessarily a choice between "three years" and "four years." Occam's Razor, though.
Obviously, this isn't something that Rodriguez will encounter; the only way he could pick between those records would be on the day of the Ohio State game, which should not be Gardner's first playing time. Clearly.
"If" he ends up being really good, what if he doesn't stay four years? He could play 3, or redshirt, play 2, and leave. Which gets you more wins then?
(And it's just a reverse hypothetical...I'm not predicting He's going to be better than Vince Young and leave early blah blah blah).
The problem with this thread is there is no way of knowing what the result of his playing will be. Even if he's a great player, great players make mistakes.
Do I agree with this
Try telling that to your seniors.
But a strong four year contributor. I think that the difference in quality between Gardner (Frosh edition) vs. QBs this year == very small, if not Gardner being behind them. The difference between Gardner (5th year senior edition) vs. What ever QBs are on the roster == HUGE. We will be royally kicking ourselves in 4 years if we burn Gardner's RS for any other reason then injury emergency.
Besides, if our defense is being that bad that we are struggling to score with Tate & Denard, Gardner wouldn't win for us either... we would be just flat out screwed.
Suppose Tate or Denard get hurt. Then do you play DG for a little to get experience in case the second one goes down? As long as both can play, you don't burn the redshirt.
Our RBs can't catch? Does that include Vincent Smith? He was a big part of the offense catching the ball last year.
I'm not too worried about Smith because of his knee injury, but the others are another story...
Thank you very much, Coach Rodriguez. Best of luck to you tomorrow with the infractions committee.
... only one of your observations is correct, please let it be:
8. I'd be very very surprised if we did not make it to a bowl this year. I strongly feel that our D will be IMPROVED from last year. A second year in GERG's system and a good chunk of returning starters will be the main reason for this, not to mention there is a small sense of urgency around the team.
Thanks, and +1, for stopping by.
that vince smith can't catch? really...
Take it easy. He edited it.
I thought V. Smith was a good receiver last year. Anyone specific?
Thank you for sharing some insight. I think we are going to surprise people this year. The revenge tour begins Sept. 4.
Coach DiNardo, is that you?
I wish i had a job right now, but no i'm not dinardo
Because this team isn't by far the best he's ever seen. The velocity with which they make plays is not just sensational, and the hitting power is not just a phenomenal, earth shattering force. Our RB's are not lighting the atmosphere on fire as they streak through, and our WRs' hips are not made of swivel and grease.
"4. Odoms and Stonum are also getting long looks at #1 and #2 WR's, roundtree is slot #1."
How is Hemingway looking?
Hemingway is in the mix, but right now it's those two.
So Odoms is getting looks as an outside guy and Roundtree is back to the slot?
The confusion I think comes from people initially speculating that Roundtree could be moved to the outside as it was thought that he's more of a natural at that position than Odoms. That made a lot of sense to me as it would then leave an open position inside for some really talented guys. But, I've subsequently read that the staff wants to keep "their best" guy Roundtree closer to the quarterbacks. As fans we can all have our opnions on what should happen, but I gotta assume the coaches are the best informed. On a related note, I'm excited about the idea that Stonum is in great shape. I hope that this indicates a lot of summer work that hopefully includes working on other parts of his game. A burner on the outside that can stretch the field and put fear in the safeties would be the final piece to the offense.
...and being able to flank him into empty sets w/o substituting--thereby not allowing opponents to identify personnel groups as easily--is a significant part of the offense. If the RB can't catch, that limits the offense, and that's why V. Smith was #3 last year and a strong candidate to start this year. If the other guys could catch better, especially Touissant imo, they'd likely start.
I thought Smith would be a light to non-contributor this year because of his injury. If he ends up being back close to a hundred percent, it will be huge for the team. I like his mental ability or "football instinct" more than any other back on the team. Also, his speed is very deceptive, and that helps him slip by tacklers who misjudge him.
Thanks for posting it. Hopefully the RBs will get over their case of the dropsies. Other than that it sounds like things are going well.
Another question for you: please confirm the existence of an Alumni Assocation chapter plaque on the moon. The rumors have been in flux for far too long.
Please, and thank you!
would you care to elaborate on him a little bit more? Or could you?
When you say Christian is "playing like he should" do you mean, "like an inexperienced kid" or "good enough" or "Wowza" ?
I think you can infer "playing like he should (see the field)". That's how I took it anyway.
I figured it that way, and not to dis Christian at all, but to see the field as a freshman corner on this team doesn't say that much about his skill level at the position. Here's hoping he moves from "is serviceable" to "Warren's freshman year" quickly.
Thanks for the fix!
Nice reference. I'm never brave enough to use this one because I figure no one else will get it. I applaud you for being braver than I (and for making me feel less alone in having sat through 6+ hours of that movie for a let-down ending).
The Book was WAY better M-o-o-n, that spells the book is better.
This is good news. I agree about DG, he likely won't be better than Denard this year. At least not by a noticeable amount. Let him RS, have Denard lead the way, and have it be an all out dog fight next fall. As long as Denard still gets the ball a lot.
Assuming you have actually been going to a lot of these practices and given your username is "FormerWolv", I would guess that you are a former football player.
I doubt you'll tell us who you are, but can you at least tell us what era or position?
or even just offense or defense?
What's the first team Nickel defense look like?
Woodson found a final year of eligibility.
Actually, I'm genuinely curious what the order looks like behind Woolfolk and Floyd. As far as I can tell, that's the single most critical depth area (despite all the talk of QB's). Hence, the question.
Cullen Christian is probably number three, and after that, I don't even want to think about it.
has been getting good reviews too. He will be undersized but he is very smart so that will help him pick up the defense better. It does appear we have 2 true freshman in the two deep at CB though.
At least CB is one of the positions where it is not impossible for a Freshman to contribute.
than 6 games with that lineup. the spur and bandit are not good enough to win with at this level. dock me all you want but it is true. Kovac is a hell of a kid but is does not have the talent/speed to play at this level.
Kovacs had the talent/speed to be a freshman All American last year. He's in a new position that fits his talent very well. And if he doesn't start, it's because someone else came in who's even better.
This team will not live and die by the spur and bandit. If Kovacs is the worst starter on our team, we'll have a good team.
I want you to know that I just spent one of my MGoPoints negging you for this stupid comment, but it was well worth it.
And since you'll be below 20 points very, very soon, I'm not worried about you negging me back. Suck it.
here is an observation from someon with more knowledge than you and me:
I thought he (Jones) did a solid job at Kovacs bandit position. But IMO that is one of UMs biggest problems, too many box safeties, not enough deep safeties or CBs.
This doesn't support your claim that Kovacs is inadequate. It contradicts it. It says that another player may have improved beyond Kovacs but that position isn't a problem anyway. The problem is at deep safety and CB.
The guy makes decent comments from time to time and gives insight into the enemy. Keep your friends close,... and you know the rest. Besides, we're better than those douche canoe's anyway. We just have to be better than them in football now.
Did I imagine Geaux Blue's comment re: how FormerWolv knows this or did it go away?
we tend to make sure "insider info" isn't just some jaded rival fan etc.
this one's legit. feel free to feel fired up.
I was just editing to say that I don't really care how he knows, but if it's legit, thanks for posting. And, I appreciate your skepticism for inside info.
Co-sign the veracity of the poster. He is a name I would recognize.
It was removed, but I still suggest laying off the peyote.
Thanks for sharing...please stop back often.
His handle indicates that he is a former player, and thus was granted access to practice. Thanks for posting!
Besides the ones already covered?
Also, can you speak some more on the secondary. Thanks.
Formerly and Geaux, thank you for the backing!
I would love to write more on each bullet, but I only write what I know.
I can only assume you are Zoltan.
P.S. I hereby grant you an additional 4 years of eligibility at Michigan. I didn't use mine.
Actually, he's currently defeating the klingons and battling the Trade Federation at the same time. Chuck Norris is his next target.
This guy comes on here and gives us would appears to be legit insider info we can't get from the MSM and somebody decides to be a dick and neg him. I bet it was "Not a Blue Fan". That guy is always negging people's diary entries.
It was me! Chuck Norris defies physics! Zoltan relies on Kepplers Laws and Newton's Law of Gravitation. I'm just worried for Zoltan!
There's a reason yoda** now says "Let the Zoltan be with you"
He had a great debut with the Pats last night. And I don't think a single one was returned. [Too lazy to go back and check. Too many posts here to read before Brandon makes his debut. Hmm... So we know OP isn't Brandon...]
anytime Mr. Carr
From a fictional former Wolverine to an actual one, thank you and Go Blue!
-Tim "All The" Waymen, LSA '94
Sorry Magnus, Geaux, BISB, Chitown, Jamiemac, BGH, etc. FormerWolv is now officially my fave poster. More, please!
EDIT: Also, given
11. There is a tight knit family atmosphere around the team, and the guys are really thriving from it.
may I assume you are neither Justin Boren nor Kurt Wermers?
We've actually worked out custody arrangements. I get you every other weekend and the shitty holidays. Don't worry little buddy it will be the best damn Flag Day ever!!!
He's surpassed me on my list of favorite posters as well.
Any thoughts on the LBs?
mondrous is doing well at MLB, Roh and Mouton will flank him.
Is that saying something good about Moundros or something bad about the rest of our MLBs?
Are those your projected starters as of right now?
good about moundros, and yes.
Moundros has over-taken Obi... Wow... I really don't know what to think about that...
I guess we know exactly what Obi can do and if Moundros is better I guess that's a good thing? Right?
He's really playing better?... half full, half full,half full, half full,half full, half full,half full, half full,half full, half full,half full, half full...
dont forget obi was pulled a good number of times in favor of leach...
and hearing coach Rob saying the "Obi has good intentions"...not exactly a glowing review. I'm scared somewhat if a FB moves to LB and starts, but if it improves things then go get 'em Mark!
This does make me think of the assessment of the MLB position in Hail to the Victors that said Casteel had gotten away with ridiculously small or unathletic MLBs in the 3-3-5 because their most important duty was making the NT right and sticking his nose where it was guaranteed to get smushed back at him. If Moundros can get to the right hole and take on blocks better than Obi than that's all he really needs to do to be effective.
It would be weird to think that our Defensive Captain might not even be a starter. It's good to know that he is doing well in his new position.
If you've seen football practice in 2008 and 2009, could you comment on the change in LB coaching? Obviously, depth and experience have improved since then, but is there any particular aspect of LB coaching that you feel was especially lacking under Jay Hopson and accounted heavily for the LBs' struggles?
I'd love to hear the inside view of that.
Wait, how is Odoms getting looks as the #2 (which I assume means the outside receiver) and Roundree is at slot. Odoms is like 5'8. I call BS.
steve smith (carolina) is listed as 5'9, you saying he should also be confined to only the slot?
Touche, but Steve Smith can fly and I don't think we've seen that yet from Odoms.
I've heard that Hemingway has had some mental errors. They might be looking to get the best 3 receivers on the field while keeping Roundtree in the slot where he has excelled.
with the bevy of quick passes and WR screens we do, having odoms with room to work ain't a bad idea.
He did best DRob in the 40 earlier int he year by .01 if I remember correctly. But then again DRob said he was just comming off of being sick. But still, he's not slow by any means.
He won the team's fastest man competition in the spring, sooooo false.
I read that as well, but it seems hard to believe. He doesn't really strike me as a burner - more of a guy who's shifty after the catch.
Odoms was the player that passed Shaw from behind to lay a sick block when Shaw broke free in the Minnesota game two years ago.
Odoms is a burner.
Odoms has struggled with alot of the duties ours slots have such as making something out of the bubble screen/quick pass. Where Tae has excelled is drag routes and deep routes...or anything where he can get open against zone. WR makes sense for Odoms, maybe not every down but I like him outside more.
Many thanks!!! Probably the best porn i've viewed since April - even better than the videos, i guess i've always preferred to read the articles anyway :-)
just like Playboy?
What is it about the defense that has you so optimistic? Does that optimism spread to the whole secondary?
our mascot kills things, your's protects ends of rainbows.
....where there is a pot of gold. GOLD!! =)
Is that what they're calling Lucky Charms now?
Wow I am really glad i clicked on this post.
And that mascot comparison has to be the funniest thing i've heard in a while.
Keep it up FW, it's appreciated.
There's comedic gold at the end of that rainbow. +1 to you, sir.
I, for one, am rooting for fitz to win the starting job. i think he is the most complete back and its good to hear he is getting some looks
For me, it's just that how badly must Obi be playing? No improvement? I just figured he'd have gotten the message last year. But hey, if Moundros is really a better option, then he's really a better option and the coaches will start him.
feels like our site just landed a 5 star poster. Thanks for the info. Stop back as much as you like!
Oh wow. Thank you for the insight sir, it is much appreciated.
You WILL be going to practice every day and reporting back here, right? :)
A. Assuming that our record will be the same regardless of which three QBs start:
B. How have we looked defending the pass, specifically vertical seams and the curl/flat?
C. Outside of the starters (Woolfolk, Floyd, C. Gordon) who looks good in the secondary?
D. Who looks good at spur/bandit? How long before M. Robinson and Furman are ready?
E. Who shot JFK?
I will have a very hard time accepting walk-ons starting in front of scholarship players. We're going into year three of the Rodriguez era; walk-ons should not be starting.
I'm starting to wonder whether RR's choice of starters is based more on the effort a player puts forth in practice than on the talent a player possesses. If that's really the case, RR's costing the team wins and shooting himself in the foot at the same time.
You know how stupid that sounds? Are you saying RR wants to lose? Fail.
Do you seriously think Rodriguez is just giving A's for effort? You don't think he's trying to put his best players on the field? Kovacs isn't a charity case. He's our leading returning tackler, and was a Freshman All-American last year. He was much more effective last year than the 4-star he replaced (Mike WIlliams). Go watch the MSU game, in which he made seventeen tackles, and tell me he was just out there because he was a go-getter who ran hard in practice.
Besides, walk-ons started under Carr (ever heard of Brian Griese?), and under Moehler, and under Bo, and probably under Crisler and Yost.
I suggest you read Misopogon's diary post on Turner's departure for more in depth discussion of the issue.
In any case, I think there is some evidence that RR seems to care more about effort in practice than actual talent on the field. Just look at what he has said about who gets playing time; his quotes have been along the lines of "such and such activity is voluntary...but so is playing time." And ask yourself this: how can a program in its THIRD YEAR under the same coach be starting walk-ons at key positions? How can the same program potentially be starting a walk-on fullback at linebacker? Unless the answer to both questions is that effort is more valued than talent, then It just doesn't make sense.
Apparently you have never been on a football team. The players that play are the ones that are most prepared to play on Saturday. Are you saying that because Mike Williams runs faster than Kovacs that he should play even though (this is strictly an example) he doesn't diagnose plays as well. is not in good as shape, doesn't remember the plays etc...
You really just want RR to get the best talent possible and then coddle them and give them what they want so they don't leave?
Misopogan has done some great work but that wasn't one of them. Saban, Meyer, Carroll and the rest would absolutely not allow anyone on the field that did not show it in practice, workouts, film. Their rosters are filled with 4 and 5 stars on the bench or transferred out, because they didn't put in the work to get on the field. The modern coach is pretty lock step in fostering a sense of competition in practice that does not allow anyone to slack.
This is straight out of the Bo Schembechler book. The story of Jeff George is exactly what you are talking about. George was a punk with a great arm....Bo passed on him to get Harbaugh because he was a leader and had guts. You are saying you want the big arm with no heart over guts. Those teams never win the title.
With the growth of places like scout and rivals, the star rating is overtaking the general fan's view of talent. While scout and rivals are great to point people in the right direction in terms of who COULD succeed on the college level, it is by no means a definite conclusion. Just because a player does not have a favorable star rating (or lack of one) does not mean he's terrible, or a waste of space on the college level; that's why coaches from each school scout players on there own.
BTW: I'm pretty sure Kovacs is on scholarship now.
I have to say you’re right about the star rating not necessarily being a predictor to how an athlete performs on the collegiate level. This is especially true when it comes to Rodriguez and his stint at WVU. After all, he won some big time games with players who proved to outperform their less than stellar rivals/scout ratings.
For example, some of his notable WVU recruits ratings as follows:
Chris Henry 2* WR
Adam Jones 2* DB
Pat White 3* ATH
Steve Slaton 3* ATH
Just to name a few.
I’m sure this has been discussed on this board before, but RR’s record of success with lower rated athletes is undeniable. There is no reason to think he won’t be able to achieve similar results here considering he can get the most out of his players.
From what I’m reading, it seems like he has this team really motivated. I for one am excited to see the product unveiled in 3 weeks. This is truly an exciting time to be a Wolverines fan.
Take a look at Nebraska. A tradition of walk-ons starting.
This is easy to answer, because you set up a straw man and overlook the obvious. You suggest that RR can either value talent or effort.
How about this: Maybe he values football playing ability.
Talent is one component in that, but so is effort, so is intelligence... If a less talented player is a BETTER FOOTBALL PLAYER you better bet he should play, even if he is a "walk-on."
I walked on at Michigan (not football) and beat out scholly guys in my sport. I was less talented, but better. It happens... a lot.
The phrase "some workouts are voluntary, but so is playing time" isn't a RichRod thing. It's one of the most widespread expressions in sports. It expresses the notion that to succeed, even the most talented athletes have to put in the work to be ready.
Talent only goes so far. Obi Ezeh is as physically talented as anyone on the team, but we saw time and again last year that talent only helps if a player knows where to be and what to do when he gets there. Sure there are more physically talented Bandits, but Kovacs is the one who gets himself into position to make plays, so why the hell shouldn't he play? Just because he wasn't recruited? Dude is here now, and made 76 tackles as a freshman... let him hit some people.
A singer can have a glorious voice, but if she skips rehearsal and screws up the song in performance, who cares how pretty the voice is if it's in the wrong place with the wrong notes? Even though a ballerina has the most grace and charisma in her company, if she skips rehearsal and gets the timing wrong on the leap into her prince's arms, she crashes, probably injures herself (and maybe the poor prince), and the ballet comes crashing down around her. And if she skips her practice time at the barre, more chance she'll tear some connective tissue, making her completely useless to the team. Talent is as talent does. And sometimes (often) true talent doesn't come out until the background work has been done to allow it to show.
Sequeing to RR's mentions about simplifying to reduce the need to think. True talent comes out when you can act on instinct. The thinking and working comes in practice, so that once on stage you can react instinctively. He wants his guys to bring the instinct back. He'll add the more complicated stuff gradually, when they have time to thoroughly rehearse, make it subconscious, and then instinctively let loose the passion and speed once the play begins.
EDIT: Meant as reply to Lumberjack way way above. Agree with South Bend right above, though expressed differently.
thanks for the report!
FormerWolv...how crisp is MM's tackling? He should understand things at the ILB spot pretty well from having played a postion directly opposite for several years...so if he's picking up the D and getting to the right spots, my only concern is his tackling.....any problem?
I've posted all what I currently know and feel comfortable with relaying to you. Until next time...
We all look forward to it!
FormerWolv release your ID and I will draw a life like picture of you.
it has happened. Ever hear of Henry Hill? Started with the 1968 team as a fourth-string walk-on at 5-10 and 200 lbs. By the end of his senior year in 1970, he was second-team All-America at middle guard. Recorded thirteen tackles against OSU in the '69 game.
Surely you're not going to tell us that Bo would rather lose with a practice gamer than a more talented guy.
Wanted to get your thoughts on this statement from Brent Yarina in his recap of Michigan's practice
"This defense will struggle against teams like Iowa and Wisconsin," Gerry DiNardo said. "They're better against the spread than they are against down-the-hill teams."
That could be bad news, with strong running teams such as Illinois, Iowa, Ohio State, Penn State and Wisconsin all on the 2010 schedule.
Everything I've read makes it sound like this is a much more physical team and while the depth issue is obvious it sounds like we're better of this year. What are your thoughts on the ability of the 3-3-5 they're playing to stop the run and the D's ability to match up in the B10? Thanks.
hard to form a good opinion when they had their first full pads practice yesterday, but obviously yarina can.
but it doesnt surprise me if they are better against the spread since they scrimmage against one...
I guess I'm just not familiar with the responsibilities in their 3-3-5 (I always played in a 4-3) and thought you might have some info into how it matches against the run. I suppose as long as guys can play downhill they will be fine regardless of the type of D. Anyway, thanks for the info you were able to provide.
How did the placekickers look?
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