but I'll add to the first one. I find it hard to believe that even then that news doesn't leak somehow, but let's roll with it and say he keeps it quiet till after. I agree we don't win. But what then happens is Fisher isn't coach, and we probably get whoever Bobby Knight's first recommendation was. Because he was tight with Bo, and ran a clean program. There was even talk of him coming to Michigan, but he'd have never left Indiana. Considering Bobby's more recent assistants haven't exactly done wonders anywhere, I wonder if we do much better than we have.
What if? Michigan football version
That 1988 season is fairly unique in my mind for how strong the major national powers were and how many times they played each other.
Miami, ND, and Michigan all played each other early in the season and none of them lost to anybody else the rest of the year. USC was undefeated for most of the year, beat one-loss UCLA (with Davey O'Brien winner Troy Aikman) in a top-10 match-up, then played undefeated ND in a 1 vs. 2 matchup (they lost that and then lost to Michigan in the Rose Bowl). That UCLA team then beat SWC champ Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl, a team whose only regular season loss came at season's end against Miami. FSU won the Sugar Bowl over SEC champ Auburn, and their only loss came against Miami as well.
Can't remember another year close to that where the season really turned out to be a super competitive playoff from September to January.
This is unrelated to Michigan but another "what if" to think about from the 1988 season, is what if Cleveland Gary's fumble against ND is ruled the touchdown that it was? Miami didn't lose another game that year.
You are forgetting about the loss to ND week 1 and the tie with iowa.
Here is a what if for you. What if Bo offered Barry Sanders, and Barry came to Michigan? Does Michigan win the national championship?
What if Mike Lantry made the kick in 1973?
I completely botched that question. So I'll try and redeem myself here with another two:
What if the refs in 74 called Lantry's game ending kick correctly?
What if the B1G allowed more than one team to go to Bowl games prior to 1975?
"What if the B1G allowed more than one team to go to Bowl games prior to 1975?"
What if the "no-repeat" rule which accompanied this one had been in effect still rather than abolished two years before?
Michigan would have gone to the Rose Bowl in 1973 despite losing to Ohio in November, I believe. I really never understood what their rationale for the "Rose Bowl or No Bowl" rule was in the first place, and in any event, Michigan was actually the first beneficiary of the change in 1975 with the Orange Bowl appearance, I think.
Oh yeah, I forget about the tie also. I was thinking we finished 10-2 when it was 9-2-1. I guess we wouldn't have won it all regardles.
Everybody else would have had a loss. We also would have had wins over the next closest competitors in Miami and ND. Assuming the bowl matchups are the same (as they probably would have been that year) and WVU still loses, Michigan is still the only undefeated team, even with the tie and ends up with the title after the Rose Bowl win.
would have ended up the head guy. Lloyd probably ends up like Fred Jackson in that scenario.
In other What If's, how about if Slick Rick Pitino's wife thought AA was cool and he decided to coach here? So, instead of 6 more years of Michigan basketball's continued fall into irrelevance, he turns the program around and prevents Izzo from completely taking over the state's recruiting.
If any of those events had turned out differently, it would have caused a disruption in the space-time continuum and Biff Tannen would be our coach.
In all seriousness, the phantom TD in the '79 Rose Bowl burns me the most. If they had gotten that call right, we might have pulled out the win and gotten the vote for the UPI National Championship instead of USC.
The Miami game burns me too, though we can't blame that one on bad officiating. All we needed was an inch here or there somewhere in the last 7 minutes to stop Miami's rally and preserve the win. We didn't get it. But to answer your question, we still wouldn't have won the NC that year because we lost to the team that did win the NC (Notre Dame), and they went undefeated.
Perhaps the most interesting "what if?" is if Moeller hadn't had his meltdown that fateful night at the Excalibur. His offense relied more on the pass than Bo's and even Lloyd's did, so it's interesting tho think about what he would have done with Griese, Brady, Henson, etc. He's also a good five years older than Lloyd and probably would have retired around 2003 or so. Hard to speculate on who we would have hired back then.
To this day I am convinced that Coach Moeller would have won a national title or two. He seemed to be ahead of the curve on where football was heading because he was recruiting a lot of speed to the table.
Oh well though, it is what it is and as far as who would have coached after Moeller is a darn tricky question. I guess it depends on how Moeller's staff would have played out over the years.
Moeller was a good coach, and a great guy, but he wasn't exactly Mr. Popular when he left. Otherwise that never would have been able to push him out. He was coming off two 4 loss seasons (back when that was unthinkable) and if sites like this existed they would have been roasting him and giving '93 and '94 nicknames. And then the next two years after he left were 4 loss seasons too, so if all four had been under one coach, he probably would have been out. (Remember when 4 loss seasons were horrible for Michigan?) For how often people like to bring up "Lloyd did it with Moeller's players" Mo's three best seasons were his first three, with Bo's players. People remember the more aggressive offense, but forget they still lost games. The sidelines always seems a bit more confused when things hit the fan those years too.
Now, he was a good man, a good leader, and I have little doubt if he continued we probably would have had similar success on average to what Michigan has done before and after. I don't think he was going to tank the program. I just don't buy the idea that we were ready to turn the corner to some new level of greatness. After two "mediocre" seasons, a lot of fans were ready to run him out of town (as they are all Michigan coaches). If he had been 11-1 and 10-2 in the Rose Bowl those two previous seasons, he probably would have survived even the tapes coming out.
Oh, I havent forgotten. Mo was a great guy, supported Rich through the hard times. I will always respect that from Mo. He had a great mind for offense. At times his defense lacked a bit. I also remember the Colorado Hail Mary fiasco. We were up by 2 scores late in the game and we lost. He got very conservative. I was hammered that afternoon, and dont remember everything and refuse to look at any replays of the game. I do remember the conservative play calling.
Four loss seasons are still horrible at Michigan.
I wouldn't exactly say that Mo's teams relied on the pass. They always had a great running game. Mo, however, combined that with some innovative playcalling.
With Carr, the frustrating thing was that our running game started to become more inconsistent, while our passing game got better and better, yet our playcalling didn't evolve to reflect this. He was more conservative than Mo yet his personnel was less suited for it.
Ryan Mallett stayed at UM?
Antonio Bass never got hurt?
Dave Brandon decided to try maize jerseys?
Just a few..
If Bass is healthy...RR gets one year with him and 2009 probably goes no differently with a Freshman QB at the helm.
Also, the D still is terrible. But if anything the bowl streak possibly survives through 2008 instead of 2007.
I say that getting rid of Mallet was the downfall of RR. If not for that, they stood a chance of a decent 1st year for him, & perhaps things would not have spiraled out of control????
Love the fact that Hoke & Borges have recognized that Denard gives them a shot at greatness! They have adapted to him. Once he's gone, they implement their offense.
that Mallet was iffy to start with, and the simple act of hiring Rodriguez was the last straw, only to be confirmed by subsequent interaction or lack thereof with Rich.
Furthermore, Mallet made the right choice, he is a prototypical pocket passer with three playing years of eligibility left, and needed to be in pro-style offence to make it to the next level.
By comparison, Denard had two seasons of playing eligibility left, and needed to move more towards a pro-style offense to make it to the next level.
i.e., the shift to a spread coach early in his career made leaving the best career choice for Mallet, and the shift to a West Coast (we'll call it pro-style) coaching staff with two years to go made staying the best career choice for Denard.
And while we're at it, Borges had the dial too far to the West Coast side until after the Iowa game. Only then did they fully adapt to Denard's abilities.
I say no! He left unappreciated. Yes, he may have been a Diva, but had he not been forced out, they could have had 1 decent year with him.
I know they were salivating over DR, but the shake up cost them many games.
& Yes, his leaving for Arkansas was a good move for him, no question!
Can you imagine him playing for John L.?????
No one forced Ryan Mallett to leave. He headed to Arkansas two weeks after his last game of the season at Michigan (up until which point Lloyd Carr was still the head coach). He didn't attend a single practice or even look at a playbook with the new coaching staff, and left at a time when the ability to even meet with players is extremely limited. Rodriguez also repeatedly talked about the ability to adapt his WVU offense to be more pass happy depending on the talent available (something he had done with great success at Tulane with Shaun King).
Mallett wanted to be at Arkansas in the first place (only came to Michigan because they landed Mitch Mustain, who then bailed after Malzahn got fired) and left the second his first season ended. Assuming a hypotethetical world where he could have been persuaded to stay in that two week window (after already having countless run-ins with the previous staff) is a pretty silly exercise. Acting like he was booted out the door is completely ridiculous.
I don't want to get into a Rodriguez debate here and hijack the thread, but I'm not sure why people are so quick to assume Mallett didn't want to be here. He committed as a high school junior and helped recruit many of his classmates. Also, even after transferring, he actually came back to participate in Mock Rock. That doesn't seem to jibe with the whole "Mallett had no friends on the team" narrative people are advancing. I don't think he was either forced out or definitely leaving, regardless of the coach. But again, this is a debate for another place.
There's a big difference between being driven out, and made to feel unwanted. I should have clarified.
Does anyone want to tell me that RR welcomed Mallet with open arms??? Hell no, he had DR.
I'm sure there is mutual dispute about the outcome, but can you disagree that keeping Mallet would have been a plus????
Denard Robinson verbally committed to Michigan more than a year after Mallett left. He arrived on campus another six months after that, and didn't win the starting job for yet another year. We were attempting to recruit Pryor and presumably other quarterbacks at the time, but I don't know of any coach who would stop trying to fill future recruiting classes simply to make a player feel "welcome" at the school he is already enrolled at.
Obviously a sophomore Ryan Mallett would have been a better player than a freshman Steve Threet. But what should have been done to keep Mallett at Michigan (mind you, it would have to be done in a two week window)? Throw him a parade? Seek Mallett approval for all future formations and playcalls? Excuse him from future practices? Guarantee the starting position for the next three years without question before ever conducting a single practice?
If you have any actual evidence of how Rich Rodriguez drove Mallett away I would love to hear it. You would be the first person to provide any such evidence, though.
Both RR and everyone around the situation have stated that he tried numerous times to get Mallet to stay. If it was half-hearted, the evidence may point to Lloyd's animosity to Mallet due to his drug use, immaturity and general bad attitude. But anyway, show me your evidence that RR "ran off" or "unwelcomed" Mallet . . . I'm waiting. Is it the similar to the way he "ran off" Justin Boren? No new coach is going to try and run off/alienate players, regardless of what system they run. And by the way, RR didn't have DR, he was still chasing Pryor.
I swear this has been rehashed 5000 times on this blog since the actual events were unfolding (now 5 years ago!) and I'm getting pretty damn sick of it. I might have been interested in your viewpoint way back then, but now not so much
Maybe it's all the new MGomembers that have joined within the past year, because we have had nothing but bitter rehashing of the RR era, PSU apologists, and generally clueless redundant posts for the past two weeks.
Season starts soon, thank God.
It is no panacea re bad threads though...
Tater was tating the next year.
Where do you go with this salivating over DR business vs. R. Mallett's future?
What if denard tied his shoes?
We know the answer.
Shoelaces : Denard : : Kryptonite: Superman
What if you were turned on by this video?
What if two married Ohio State fans get divorced? Are they still brother and sister?
And even I must say you've gone too far! It is clearly stated in the State of Ohio laws that marriage dissolution shall have no impact on your biological relationship.
that being said, don't ever mention it to an Ohio Trooper!!!! That'll surely cost you an extra $100!
These posts always make me sad and bad memories surface, therefore what if Justin King was opposite Leon Hall in 2006? Did I mention these posts make me sad.
What if Ted Ginn gets an offer to play WR at Michigan (assuming the Pierre Woods situation hadn't made it a moot point that he wasn't coming to Ann Arbor anyway) and isn't on that OSU team?
Oh jesus this is going to blow up quickly, but I'm reading that book too curently. Small world. ESPN did a segment similar to this a couple of summer agos to fill during the off season. I kid you not when I say one of them ended with Nick Saban winning a championship at Michigan.
1. Crable late hit in 06
2. Forcier int in OT at MSU
3. We score from the 1 yd line at ILL in 09 instead of being stuffed 4 times. Bowl eligble instead of losing 6(?) in a row.
4. What if that kick in the game that must not be named in 07 wasn't blocked?
I haz sads now.
Ha. 3 of your 4 were the same as in my post. Hurts to look back doesn't it?
What if the cubs won the 2003 NLCS?
What if the value of pi was 3.141592643589793.... and not 3.141592653589793....?
I guess circles would be less circley
In 2000, what if we don't lose three road games by a total of seven points to UCLA, Northwestern, and Purdue?
In 2001, what if "Clockgate" never occurs?
It hurts to dwell on the past...
What if Chad Henne's shoulder had taken a cortisone shot correctly against Wisconsin in 07, instead of hitting a nerve, messing it up for a week, and still causing him to suffer painful effects against OSU the following week?
I don't think Henne's shoulder would have mattered in The Game, between the horrible weather and a line that allowed this:
I have consistently said that DR cannot get better if he doesn't pass the ball!!! I was laughed off CGD for suggesting that one of the best QB's in history had the highest interception rating, and one of the top completion ratings. Of course I mean Brett Farve.
What if we didn't put so much pressure on DR?
We might allow him to achieve greatness without fear!!!
Brett can throw the ball, and completed passes. Denard's throwing is terrible and off target. He can't afford to throw jump balls and be inaccurate. Brett threw jump balls and was accurate, which is a huge difference. Every ball Denard throws has a chance to be picked. Brett knew when his had a chance to be picked, but he made the choice.
Just ask GB fans how they feel about your comment!!!
Bottom line, DR knows he can struggle by throwing off of his back foot, he's too short, and he's a questionable leader, but I'll take him @ his age over Farve any day!!! One of a kind!!!!
Are you guys misspelling his name in purpose? Is it a thing on mgoblog I'm not aware of?
We worried about the future?
1989- What if Michigan had 11 guys on the field to tackle the Rocket on one of his two kickoff returns, instead of 7 guys? What if the "phantom holding call" wasn't created by the annual "we hate The Big 10" referees? Bo would have gone out like he deserved.
Oh man you just brought back up a memory I had managed to repress for almost 13 years. Here's a couple of interesting tidbits about the holding call you reference which wiped out a brilliantly called fake punt that put the ball inside the Trojan 10 yard line with time winding down.
1. The ref who called it was a Pac 10 ref
2. The number of the player he said was holding wasnt on the field for the play
3. When shown the replay of the game and asked who the holding call was on two days later he was unable (or unwilling) to say who exactly he saw hold
That was easily one of the most blatant examples of a "fuck you Bo - you are NOT going to win this game no matter what " call ever. Argueably as bad as the 79 Rose Bowl TD referenced.
I forgot all those specifics!!! I just want to thank you for refreshing my resentment towards the PAC-10 for their obvious thievery in Rose Bowl games of my childhood. I remember Bo wouldn't give any interviews after the game. I also remember my head about to explode and wondering how my dad remained so calm about it. He stated matter of factly, "They do it every year."