what if ??? ?MBB
What if Harris had come back for his senior year ? I've been thinking about this and im not sure if he would have put it all together and mesh with this young team or if he would have been a problem. Personally I think the Europe trip would have brought him loser to this team and we might have had a better season. Possible even a 4 or 5 see and a final 4 run. What do you guys think ?
March 21st, 2011 at 10:35 AM ^
It is hard to tell. Team chemistry is huge and that seemed to be lacking last year. It is impossible to predict how things would have turned out. Manny always made me nervous as I thought his head was sometimes not in the game. With this team, although they went through cold streaks, I never felt that way.
March 21st, 2011 at 10:35 AM ^
Clean up that post before anyone reads it. Braught? That is going to be problematic.
And for what its worth, I liked Manny Harris, but I think his departure was more of a meeting of the minds between coach and player than a unilateral decision. Manny was not a good fit, and was becoming little more than clutter. It was not fair to him, not fair to the coach, not fair to the team. He made the only move left.
March 21st, 2011 at 10:40 AM ^
Presented by http://www.braught.com/
...actually just start clicking on stuff, they are just links to pics that are kind of funny. Who would have known?
March 21st, 2011 at 10:36 AM ^
March 21st, 2011 at 12:05 PM ^
I agree with this 100%
March 21st, 2011 at 10:38 AM ^
If Manny came back this year, the team would have never come together like they did. As mentioned above, Chemistry was huge. Also big, was this was the first team with 100% of Beilien's guys. LLP and Ant Wright had time left, but were not asked to come back. Not too sure of the reasons.
You could see even in November and December that this Michigan team had less talent that last years - but we more of a team. I think by the time Michigan played Duke yesterday thought, this team had as much talent as last year.
The future is bright!
GO BLUE!
Ant Wright did not renew his fifth year of eligibility and LLP was kicked off of the team for violating team rules.
March 21st, 2011 at 10:39 AM ^
Man, that's a big what if. I thought you were going for something like, "what if DMo had dished it off for a 3 instead of trying the runner in the lane?"
March 21st, 2011 at 10:43 AM ^
would not have called a ticky tack over the back on us with 1 second left on the clock in the first half when Duke got the rebound anyway and was just going to run into the locker room.
The rest of the game I had no problem with in terms of officiating. That one was absolutely silly and indefensible.
March 21st, 2011 at 11:13 AM ^
We only lost 1 point on that so I'm not sure what it ultimately would have changed. That being said, the call was completely absurd.
March 21st, 2011 at 11:49 AM ^
when the refs did not call the over the back on Singler when Novak grabbed the rebound on the last missed FT.
March 21st, 2011 at 10:50 AM ^
I thought that immediately after the missed runner, but in hindsight I still like DMo's decision to take it to the hoop. With such little time left, we had to be certain to get a shot off and he got a clean look. Just didn't go in. That's basketball... unfortunately, this magnificent season is over. Just more motivation for next year. F*** Duke. Go Blue!
March 21st, 2011 at 11:19 AM ^
but my personal preference would be to try to win it in regulation.
Great season by a great group of guys. Bright days ahead.
March 21st, 2011 at 10:39 AM ^
We were lacking in Leadership last year after CJ Lee left and it seemed like neither Manny or Deshawn wanted to step up. This year, Darius Morris has done a GREAT job of being a leader which is one reason I think they did so well. I dont think manny being on the team would have necessarily made us any better.
Although I do agree with you I'd say Novak was more of leader than Morris
March 21st, 2011 at 10:41 AM ^
A big problem last year was the lack of leadership. The team knew Harris should be the leader so underclassman like Stu and Novak didn't want to step up over him when the team needed leadership. Manny who was having a few off the field issues with Beilein didn't assume this role. I feel like this partially explains why last year didn't achieve as much as it could have. Harris leaving allowed Zach to step up as a leader and I believe that this had a lot to do with the improvement.
March 21st, 2011 at 10:42 AM ^
I agree with those that are saying we are better off without him. He is a talented kid, but never bought in to JB's system. We are much better off with Novak and Stu being the upperclassmen and team leaders. Plus the success this team had will carry over more next year since they already have been realying on eachother instead of relying on Manny.
March 21st, 2011 at 10:42 AM ^
From an outsider's perspective -- seems like the reason for the lackluster season last year was that Harris tried too often to put the team on his shoulders and do entirely too much out there. This year's squad was much more balanced and played well together.
March 21st, 2011 at 10:47 AM ^
Very difficult to say. No doubt having Harris increases the overall talent level. However the question you have to answer is whose minutes he would have taken. I think Morris is the full time PG either way so it probably comes from some combination of Hardaway, Novak and Douglas, and possibly Smotrych. Development of the freshman is almost certainly slower.
Are we better? Maybe we win a few more games but I'm not convinced we are better in yesterday's game. As it is we were one shot away from a possible run to the final four.
March 21st, 2011 at 10:46 AM ^
what if Beezer was one of us?
Just a slob like some of us?
Just a stranger on the bus?
trying to make his way home
no one calling on the phone
cept for Brandon from his home
March 21st, 2011 at 10:57 AM ^
I don't see how having Harris on this team would've made us that much better than we already were. Plus, us being better with Harris hinges on him putting aside his ego a bit and playing better team basketball. Were he able to do that, you could envision Michigan not starting 1-6 in the Big 10, but maybe only starting out 3-4...and maybe we pull out the Wisconsin game. All that might have earned us a 5 or 6 seed rather than an 8 and maybe we make the Sweet 16, but that's probably as far as we go. Even with Harris, I just don't see these guys at Elite Eight or Final Four material yet.....yet.
March 21st, 2011 at 11:03 AM ^
sounds like most people think we might have been a little better this year, but for the future we will be better off. I agree
March 21st, 2011 at 11:26 AM ^
Only one person thinks we might have maybe been a little better with Manny this year.
March 21st, 2011 at 11:44 AM ^
maybe only one person clearly said it, but everyones thinking it
March 21st, 2011 at 12:03 PM ^
Yeah, I think it's just you.
Can you imagine this team at 10-9 with Manny on it? Granted, I liked the kid but he wasn't uplifting to this squad (see 2010-11).
They would have tanked not turned it around. Secretly, Beilein was happy (though he'd never say it) that Manny left. Shoot, he might have encouraged it. Going 21-14 with a tourney win is way beyond were we expected them to be, and well beyond where they would have been with Manny. My unscientific prediction on wins this season with Harris is about 15.
We were a tourney team with Manny two years ago, let's not forget. And I doubt we'd have ever started 11-9 this season, with losses to IU and Northwestern, if he'd been on the team. At that point in the season, Morris was having to carry the load by himself. I don't like all this retroactive blaming of Harris. It wasn't his fault that Morris wasn't ready to start at PG last season, or that Novak and Douglass shot like crap, or that Morgan tore up his knee and had to redshirt.
I think we'd have been a similar team to what we were. Hardaway obviously wouldn't have played as much. Manny was a terrific defensive rebounder, which would have helped us some there. But our lack of size still would have done us in against the elite teams.
I am what iffing about a healthy Cronin or if we had signed Ziegler instead of Christian. Cronin is just as long as the Plumlee's and could have been a real difference maker on both ends
Ziegler could have made a huge difference also. Too many times yesterday, Vogrich, Stu, and Zack had drives towards the basket, but they just didn't have the wherewithal to get to the basket and really break down the defense. Ziegler might have been the right combination of size, skill and athleticism to get it done. Having Ziegler at the 2 and Hardaway at the 3 could have been lethal
Ziegler and Hardaway are essentially the same kind of player. If they had both come, one would have played and one would have sat. While that might have given us better depth, it's possible that neither would have developed as much as Hardaway did, as he had the freedom to play through his mistakes.
They are not at all "essentially" the same type of player and in fact would have complimented each other well. At this point Hardaway is not great at getting to the rim and is mostly a jump shooter, if Tim develops some ball handling skills, it's all over. Whereas Ziegler's forte is getting to the rim and making things happen. They are similar in stature but play the game quite differently.
They play the same position. It's very hard to imagine them playing together on the floor at once, because in that case one of Morris/Novak/Douglass would be sitting. Having both of them around would have essentially been zero-sum, especially with both in the same class.
You can believe your delusion if you want, but Belien begs to differ with you
I highly doubt Beilein is shedding any tears over losing Ziegler right now. If he had known how good Hardaway would turn out to be this year, he probably wouldn't have even bothered with Ziegler when his recruitment kept dragging on. I think he's pretty happy with how things turned out. There's such a thing as having too much talent in one class.
your last sentence. fab 5 anyone?
The Fab Five had one player for each position. Perfect. Now imagine if we'd also brought in Voshon Leonard, Jalen's high school teammate. Then we'd have had a logjam at one position, in one class. That would have been too much. Someone in the class would have been unhappy. Having both Hardaway and Ziegler in the same class could have meant likewise.
Kinda like Isaiah, Joe and Vinny that would never work.
I have never seen a team with a good guard and a good small forward, unheard of shit we talkin' bout here.
Jordan and Pippen? No shot hell that would ever work. They should've teamed Jordan up with Mike Griffin then the Bulls would have had something.
Funny, I was unaware that the Bad Boy Pistons and Chicago Bulls were college basketball teams. You come off the bench in the pros, and you're still making six or seven figures. You come off the bench in college and your whole future earnings can come into jeopardy. Leonard was wise to pick Minnesota.
(BTW, I'm fairly certain that both Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen started for Chicago.)
yeah ok
I don't think hardaway would have emerged like he has.
Having Manny back would have made this great team even better. Everyone appears to want to ignore everything Manny was good at and instead focus on his "attitude issues" for which there is little evidence to support.
- You don't think THJ would have developed better slashing skills learning from Manny?
- You don't think having Manny out there over Stu is an upgrade?
- You don't think having another person with decent ball-handling skills and excellent quickness would help the team?
- You don't think having another person as a threat to drive and get to the rim helps the team?
- You don't think Manny's quickness and length would have been great in zone defense?
- Are you forgetting Manny's ability to hit clutch 3s?
- Did you forget his drive and dish skills?
- How about his ability to draw fouls and cash in at the line?
- Do you really think it would have been detrimental to have a, you know, senior on our basketball team? I understand that he wasn't an outspoken leader but his senior presence would not have been a problem for the team.