What does it take to forge a begrudging truce among the (keep RR / Fire RR) factions?
It is looking more and more like the end of this season could end with the fanbase even more divided then it was at RR's hire. Whichever way David Brandon goes, half of us are going to be pissed. My question is this? Does a move like firing the DC (or preferably the whole defensive staff) and bringing in someone well liked forge a slight truce? I am pissed about the way things are going, but am obviously more pissed about the defense than anything. My other issues with RR are easier to look passed when the other option is changing coaches and systems again. The 'RR is not a Michigan Man' people and the 'stay the course' people will probably never be satisfied, but maybe the majority of us can at least be calmed for one more year with a good DC move. It is hard to argue that the offense won't be as good or better next year. If the defense can just become respectable we might be able to start building some positive momentum.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:14 AM ^
Wins, it will take wins. Nothing less. People who want Rodriguez gone will want blood for sure, but it will never be enough unless the head coach is part of the bloodletting. The only way he can avoid that is to win and if that happens, people may not like him, but they will accept him.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:14 AM ^
GERG's head must be shaved as a sacrifice.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:15 AM ^
hookers
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:10 AM ^
Men laying their trick-money down. Twenty dollars to pay the rent? Maybe not. Maybe instead I'll spend it on the whore.
November 2nd, 2010 at 10:24 AM ^
ONCE during the war I visited a prostitute and my life has been a living HELL ever since!
November 2nd, 2010 at 10:26 AM ^
Oh for Christ's sake, I visit a prostitute one time during the war and my life is a living hell ever since.
November 2nd, 2010 at 10:32 AM ^
Beat ya!
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:26 PM ^
I kind of like HER idea.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 AM ^
Wins are the only cure. It's really been that way from the beginning, but Rich Rodriguez is at the point where it comes down to beating the team across the line of scrimmage. It doesn't matter who it is, or what the final margin is. Just win. If that happens the rest of this year, then I think RR will come back next season.
If the wins don't come, then not only is no truce forthcoming regardless of what RR does, but his supporters will start falling away rapidly, at an ever-increasing rate, and that may very likely include David Brandon.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:56 AM ^
There were people who didn't want him here from the beginning. We are fans of Michigan and should be cheering and supporting anyone playing or coaching for the Maize and Blue. It made me sick to see some of the signs out before the Iowa after one single loss.
Not only did schemes change when RR got here, but so did entitlement. Players now had to earn their position on a daily basis and this pissed off some players (Snowplow boy for one). Then the Freep went on a witch hunt of which most was proven wrong or to have little truth and our fan base turned some more. Every program has had down years, but I never remember one that has had so many players with 2 or more years eligibility starting. It's not an excuse it's a fact. This should not happen at Michigan as the naysayers would point out. Yet, it has, and this must surely be RR's fault too despite only having only two full recruiting classes. Must be a coincidence, because Michigan is the best and there should be Jrs. and Srs. starting everywhere.
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:21 AM ^
I'm inclined to accept (in advance) whatever decision Brandon ends up making at the season's end. But, I'll likely never forgive some people (Boren, Freep, etc.) for the way they've treated Rodriguez.
It's simple. He's been blamed for *everything* that has gone wrong, including problems that he didn't cause.
- - -
You'll see this again, but here's the closest thing I currently have to a litmus test for Michigan fans:
Did Rodriguez take a potential BCS bowl team in '08 and steer it to a 3-9 season? Y/N?
November 2nd, 2010 at 11:43 AM ^
because there are kind of two parallel processes at play here. On the one hand is the unfair treatment of RR from day one for aesthetic reasons. These people are the ones who have had the "Fire RR" signs in the car every gameday, waiting for a chance to throw fuel on the fire (see: Rosenberg). He has absolutely received an unfair reception from a good portion of the base since his arrival.
On the other hand is the team's actual performance under his tenure. The record speaks for itself. And while RR's performance is likely affected to some degree by Process 1 above, it doesn't really matter what the reason is at this point--three years is three years, and after too much losing, indelible damage starts to be done to the brand. This is point that the ardent RR supporters fail to realize, in my opinion. I think some people have dug in so deep in response to the unfair treatment toward RR (which has truly been unfair during these first two years) that they have forgotten what realistic accountability looks like for an HC at a major program. There are very logical arguments being made for why RR shouldn't come back, but the apologists don't distinguish between criticisms of RR. Everything is just part of the mass noise of unfair missives that have been launched at him since his arrival.
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:33 PM ^
Good post ... as the guy with the Angry Mike Martin avatar noted recently, the amount of negative energy is, by itself, reason to consider making a change. Painful and too bad for Rodriguez, but understandable ...
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:42 PM ^
Did Rodriguez take a potential BCS bowl team in '08 and steer it to a 3-9 season? Y/N?
This is a straw man. No one ever believed that we had championship talent in 2008. We all expected it to be a rebuilding year, even before Lloyd retired. The bigger questions are these:
1. Did it have to be that bad in 2008?
2. Was the program really in such a hole in December 2007 that three years later we should still be struggling to finish above .500?
3. Is the coach who has presided during this difficult stretch the right guy for the program, going forward?
November 2nd, 2010 at 3:30 PM ^
My fellow reader, I assure you that it is far from a straw man. I can count ten friends and acquaintances (all alums, for what that's worth) who truly believe that Lloyd could have gone bowling (in Florida) with the '08 team.
I agree with your bigger questions, btw.
November 2nd, 2010 at 4:09 PM ^
They're out to lunch on that one. And if that is representative of the fanbase as a whole, then RR certainly was behind the eight ball early on. But still . . . I don't think it had to be this bad. I think if RR could go back in time, he wouldn't have blown up Carr's coaching staff. I think that decision is at the root of a lot of our problems.
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:35 AM ^
Players now had to earn their position on a daily basis and this pissed off some players
Really? Do we really know that to be the case? It could just as likely be the case that RR holds personal grudges leading to the departure of players. We just don't know the answer to that because we aren't on the field. What we do know is that we were an NFL factory before RR. So, while it seems that your comment is dropping some negatives on Carr/Moeller/Bo, those guys produced a never-ending list of NFL football players (not to mention wins, Bowl games, etc.) that we get to watch every Sunday. Were they "entitled" or just good?
November 2nd, 2010 at 3:21 PM ^
I'm trying to figure out with the length of time spanned during the Bo?Mo/Lloyd era there should be some coaches out there other than recycling the same ones. I'm talking about former players.
I'm in PA and see that PSU also sends out coaches besides players. Many on the staff there are former players. Temple is now PSU south and after talking to the fans last week I'm more convinced that the HC of Temple is the next coach for PSU.
What coaches does Michigan have out there besides Harbaugh?
Note: Really depressing to read the accomplishments of Al Golden at Temple. 4-8, 5-7, 9-4 and bowling in his first 3 years AT TEMPLE!
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:26 AM ^
Wins. Lots of them. In bunches. rivals included. I'm an RR supporter and I'm starting to wane on my confidence given the lack of results. Just sayin'....I'm not all about this "THIS IS MICHIGAN THIS SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN" scene that has flowed over the fan base the past few years but seriously...we have to start turning the corner or it will be time to move on.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:29 AM ^
But the consensus on Twitter yesterday was an MGoTherapy session with Kit Kats, Butterfingers, chocolate chip macadamia nut cookies and Captain Morgan.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:29 AM ^
In order to "end" the family feud, 2-3 wins in the final four games and a blowout win in a bowl game. At least the "fire RR" crowd will be minimalized during the offseason.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:32 AM ^
If we finish strong, all the background noise will disappear.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:56 AM ^
will have frozen over.
November 2nd, 2010 at 10:41 AM ^
I'm so okay with this that I can't even express it in words.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:35 AM ^
Ok this is where I sit
At this point, I think it's best that he moves on. I no longer believe that it's possible for RR to put together a competent defense. Now, if there are wholesale changes on the defense and he stays on, will I be pissed? Not to the point where I will run naked through the streets howling at the moon, but I will be skeptical. I will sit back and cheer like hell on Saturday but I will be skeptical and the leash will be even shorter next year with me.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:35 AM ^
is not the cure, he is being used as a scapegoat, by fans at least, not necessarily by Rich Rod. The defensive issues have a lot to do with personnel as much as scheme, and those are not Greg Robinson's problems, those pre-date both he, and Rich Rod to some degree. I don't expect GERG to be fired as much as I expect him to say "to hell with this" at some point. Most of what is being said about him now is in defense of Rich Rod, not due to anything that he has or has not done, and that is not fair to him. The guy has had a very accomplished career, he did not come to Michigan and forget how to coach a defense.
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:52 AM ^
the common denominator is Robinson's defenses have been among the worst for 4 years now, only 2 of those at Michigan.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:43 AM ^
No way ... UNLESS ... he beats Ohio State and / or wins all three of the other three games (for a .500 Big Ten season with a quality win against Wisconsin) and there is visible improvement in the subsequent bowl game. Even then I think the fire RR side is too dug in.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:41 AM ^
Mass Hysteria!!
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:45 AM ^
No Truce. We will not negotiate with the Skeptics! Trying to takeover the Big House by means of skepticism. The Big House has belonged to the Apologists and will continue to belong to the Apologists. Praise be to Yost.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:49 AM ^
November 2nd, 2010 at 10:26 AM ^
Assuming this is the watershed year for RR and assuming, for the sake of argument, things go south in a sufficiently dramatic way to mark the end of RR's time here, there will be peace until the hiring phase begins. I dwelled more on rivals than I did here in '07 and that was not a fun process if you like M fan harmony. (fwiw, I wanted to make a play for Ferentz, who was habitually shot down by the Pro-Miles, Pro whoever else factions).
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:55 AM ^
who wanted Lloyd Carr fired after 1998.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:59 AM ^
Due to his Callahanian-scale mismanagement of this once great program, I am quite skeptical whether I can ever support RR again. Winning will not cure all - it goes deeper than that now. If I respected him as a leader and manager of our program, of men, I could find a way to support him, even if he was still somehow losing (which is an unlikely outcome). But he has lost all of my respect by blaming the defensive players, ridiculing the kickers, engaging in unhealthy nepotism, failing to swallow his pride and convince players to stay, recruiting unwisely, hogtying DCs, and so on.
I will always root for this team, but wins and losses don't matter anymore in terms of my support for RR.
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:01 AM ^
There are three factions -- passionate RichRod haters, fed-up RichRod doubters, and fed-up M fans who hope that things will improve if RichRod stays. Sweeping the final four games and a bowl wouldn't win over the haters at this point/
November 2nd, 2010 at 10:46 AM ^
Count me as a member of a fourth faction, the faction of supporters that believe Rodriguez can/will still get it done if given at least another year. I may be a faction of one and, if so, so be it. But I think a lot of Michigan fans got lulled into complacency and a sense of entitlement over the years (I know I sure did, after knowing bowl games for my entire 30+ years). College football is different today than it was 10 years ago and Michigan failed to adapt. I loved the teams of the 90s and early 00s and I love Michigan football. But lets face facts - when teams like Boise, TCU, and Utah are ranked in the Top 10 its clear that times have changed. And Michigan took steps to change with it in hiring Rodriguez. I'm not ready to give up yet, at least not until Rodriguez has a recruiting class graduate.
November 2nd, 2010 at 11:23 AM ^
I am in your faction as well. I don't support Rodriguez unconditionally but I do want him to get another year at least. For reasons that need not be re-hashed on this board, I think that a lot of things that are out of his control have conspired to keep the team in the place it's in (which, let's remember, is a place that many of us thought they would be in at the beginning of this year).
November 2nd, 2010 at 11:59 AM ^
Make it three. I fully support Rich. He just needs to get it done on the D. Yes, there are things he could have done better. However, there also things that have gone wrong that is not his fault. We are extremely young on the defense and I am certain with a good defensive staff (all chosen by the D coord like at Oregon) we could have a really D.
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^
Can we retire the word entitlement? It has gone the way of the politicians shouting about wallstreet and mainstreet. Even when posters use it correctly and intelligently, as I think it was a couple of posts above this, I still just assume they are regurgiating phrases.
November 2nd, 2010 at 4:57 PM ^
You, sir, are a man after my own heart. There are several words/phrases constantly tossed around here at work that I wish would be retired and/or shot and buried. Cases in point: the "optics" of a situation and a "robust" system. I will stop using the word "entitlement" simply because I feel your pain.
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:13 AM ^
I would suggest to stop taking everything so seriously.
Everyone on both sides. I know I've rattled some people with my sit back, relax and see what happens approach, but honestly, it's the only way to go.
I'm sad we lost on Saturday and hurt like heck for kids busting their asses for us. But considering the rhetoric--and foolishness--from both sides (fer gawd's sake even a mod flipped out and lost privledges), that I have seen since the game ended, I'll take my approach any day. Why? Because I am not angry. Being angry is for unhappy people and bad radio personalities. I've seen this board flame up more and more since the MSU game. Yet, I'm enjoying football season more and more. What's the difference? I dont make it life or death. It's just life.
So, what would heal the divide? Stop taking this so fucking seriously. He's either fired or not fired, but we have four games left, and I'd rather happily and blissfully cheer for the kids than circle jerk to death on this board with either side of this issue.
I honestly feel if we show the kids some love and support over the next month and let them know we want them here, then it wont matter what happens on the coaching front.
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:21 AM ^
To that end, I have gone so far as to fast forward my DVR through all of the plays where Michigan is on defense. Its the only way to stay sane. I hate having to do it, but I'm sticking to your approach of trying to relax and not ruin the games for myself. Michigan football is one of my true loves and I can't let a few bad seasons ruin a lifetime of great enjoyment!
November 2nd, 2010 at 10:14 AM ^
I like profitgoblue's idea
November 2nd, 2010 at 3:56 PM ^
I can mow my lawn in shifts so I never catch up to real time. Not too shabby mr profit, not too shabby at all.
November 2nd, 2010 at 4:59 PM ^
I suggest definitely incorporating my strategy during the Wisconsin and OSU games. You unfortunately may reall need that >> button to keep your sanity on those two Saturdays . . .
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:48 AM ^
I take it too seriously. I don't sleep well when they lose, and it takes me a good part of Sunday to shake out of it. But I'm having a ball this season, every game. I look forward to these 12 days all year. There are only 4 left.
<br>We need to show progress, we need to win, or we need to make changes that get us there. But right now RR is the coach, and I love this team.
<br>I will scream myself voiceless on Saturday for the entire team, including the coach. I'll stay to the end, win or lose.
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:22 AM ^
and a fanatical devotion to BO
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:24 AM ^
I like it on my side, where a coach is given at least three seasons to be evaluated. On the other side, people believe that the returns are in after 2.75 seasons. Fuck them, they're filing out early, which is not how I roll. I feel the same level of connection to M fans as I do to my fellow right handed people. People are going to look absolutely ridiculous when we win 3 more games this year, and I look forward to it.
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:26 AM ^
doesn't act as a suggestion to bring about a truce or anything in that regard, but I am of the opinion that Coach Rod may be out already, he may truly be a lame duck at this point. Brandon stated a while back that it is not all about wins and losses, there are many variables that go into the equation. It was assumed at the time that this was a vote of support for RR, but the statement actually does cut both ways, and I think the other things were cutting against RR at the time the statement was made and that certainly have not improved.
Coach Rod has been reckless, he has been reckless with institution control, he has been reckless in terms of managing the roster (cutting bait with Tate Forcier included), he was reckless with a particular recruit, and he is consistently being reckless with the media (to a peculiar level).
Opening day at the Big House was important this year, the completion of the renovations was a momentus occassion, and there was the need for at least the appearance of a united front at that time, but it may not have been legitimate.
It is possible that Coach Rod is trying to preserve a career and that the University of Michigan is trying to preserve its football program, and that the two are not one in the same. It is not only possible, but appears to be likely right now.
Whatever the case may be, I am not going to stop watching. Strike up the Victors, football season is too short to begin with, I am not about to cash in my chips yet. Saturday at noon can't come soon enough.