What do you do when your kid goes to a rival school?
Two separate articles today got me thinking about rooting interests, especially for parents.
First, tomorrow, the Michigan basketball team faces Bradley tomorrow. As many of you know, John Beilein's son Patrick is on the coaching staff at Bradley. There's an article on the family dynamic at the Freep (Link: http://www.freep.com/article/20111221/SPORTS06/112210390/Beilein-family-to-face-off-on-basketball-court-this-week)
The article ends with this:
Kathleen (edit: John Beilein's wife) still knows what got this family through the years and eventually to Ann Arbor. She plans to root for the Wolverines.
There also was a post from mgouser macdaddy this morning with good news. He wrote,
Little macdaddy got into Michigan last Friday. I haz happy. Would NOT have been psyched to write checks to Little Brother U.
This got me to thinking about the dilemma faced by mgoparents. Who do you root for when your child attends, or even worse, plays for, a rival team? I know of at least one mgouser who has a daughter attending Ohio in Columbus. My own daughter visited Illinois and worse, MSU. (fortunately for me, she liked neither.)
mgoblogger mgoshoe has gotten us some inside info from his son, on the sports info staff as a student at Virginia Tech. In one of the thread's, his son said he rooted for Michigan all the time EXCEPT for this one upcoming bowl game.
Some of you root for Michigan, but went to school elsewhere (MAC schools, one of you went to Pitt, etc.) I'm curious who you root for when your own school plays Michigan.
But the real questions are for mgoparents:
- Do any of you let your progeny's school of choice affect your rooting interest?
- Does your children's school of choice ever cause you to root against Michigan?
- Do any of you have children attending MSU, OSU, or ND? If so, how do the dynamics work out when Michigan plays against those teams?
- Do any of you have children who actually played on teams for rivals? (perhaps the hardest dynamic of all.)
Siblings, parents, nephews and nieces, aunts and uncles, even spouses, let alone friends, I can deal with the friendly rivalry. My sister went to Illinois, I have in-laws and nephews who went to Ohio State, and I have no problem with the rivalry.
Kids are harder. If my daughter ends up attending a rival school, I would still root for Michigan, and might rib her a bit, but it would be pretty gentle.
But man, if my son (currently playing as a kid on a DL) ever had the opportunity to play ball collegiately, and ever played against Michigan, man, I would have to root for him, as much as I love Michigan. However, no matter who he was playing for, I would only root for them against Michigan while he was a student, and would revert back to Michigan the minute he graduated.
I'm curious how those of you who have lived this have dealt with it. Especially those cursed with children choosing to go to MSU or OSU. (Did they do this to spite you? Because you were a terrible parent?)
December 21st, 2011 at 5:38 PM ^
I was thinking of you and your girl. Glad you had such a great time at the game, that's a great story, and the thing of good memories.
December 21st, 2011 at 2:32 PM ^
Honestly, when the fat letter of acceptance to Michigan came for my oldest daughter, I sang The Victors as she walked into the house from school, and handed her the envelope.
She looked at me and said, "This is my backup. I'm not going there."
I was crushed. For a moment. I got over it. She went to U of California. Not a rival, but I'm not sure that would have mattered.
However, except for that first few moments, all I really cared about was for her to be happy and have a great college experience being where she wanted to be. I think that's all most parents care about.
After all, it's your kid's life to live, and they have to do it on their terms. It doesn't matter all that much if their terms are different from your terms.
My other two went to Michigan. But if they'd gone to State or somewhere else of their choosing, I'd have been supportive and happy, and rooted for their teams (unless they were playing Michigan).
As far as rivalries go, however, my kids would NEVER have gone to OSU. But not because of football; because it's not a very good school.
December 21st, 2011 at 2:50 PM ^
Ranked 55 in US News and World report.....Not the best, but above Purdue, Minnesota, MSU, the SEC, Iowa, Indiana......The school has been moving up the boards and improving and getting more selective about who they let in to their Columbus campus, as they force many of the lesser qualified students to attend one of the feeder campuses.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:05 PM ^
Yeah, but 55 isn't as good as UM where two of my 3 went, or UC where my oldest went, so...
December 21st, 2011 at 2:36 PM ^
hope your kid does well, but I'd still root for Michigan.
December 21st, 2011 at 2:42 PM ^
My little brother and I went to rival high schools; he was a starting guard for Seaholm and I went to Groves and played, uh, guitar. I saw more of his games than my school's and I rooted for him. When he played Groves I rooted for Groves to win but when Seaholm was on offense I found I had more interest in seeing Ben make a killer block (or recover his fumbly RB's fumbles) than our defense getting the stop.
Sports is just sports. If my brother had gone on to play for State instead of just going there, I'd still be a Michigan fan and want Michigan to beat them, but I'd also want that win to have come despite the outstanding play of the Spartans' right guard.
That's for a brother. I never have to worry about this because there isn't a single athletic allele between me and Misopogal but let's say I did have a son whose best opportunity was to play for Michigan State -- I think I would root for MSU while he was there. Mostly I would root for my kid to be successful.
This of course presumes by then that I respect the coaches there.
I've never had a problem rooting for State as a secondary team anyway. I only want them to lose now because Dantonio is a bad person whose lessons are an embarassment to his school and the Big Ten, and because a lot of MSU fans are very proximal and very intolerable. If I had a kid with an offer from Dantonio and then just MAC schools, I would still recommend he go elsewhere because coaches can have a big effect on this person you've been trying to parent for 18 years and I would have very strong reservations about a person such as Dantonio having influence on my kid.
But still, if that's what my kid wanted to do, then fine, I'd let him do it, and I would support him and his teammates, except I'd be secretly rooting for everyone ahead of him on the depth chart to get Mono. I would record the Michigan game, put on a green sweatshirt, and be the proudest dad of a Spartan in the world. Nothing will ever change the fact that I'm a Michigan fan -- hell it'd probably be a gazillion times harder on my kid that his dad has a Michigan blog than it would be for me to be proud of my flesh and blood playing Big Ten football.
Again, I don't have to worry about it, but I've played with the hypothetical anyway in case my job ever leads me to meeting athletes' parents, so I can understand them. When you're a parent, it's 100% about what's right for your kid. If MSU had a coaching staff I trusted more than the staff at Michigan, my blue-colored glasses wouldn't mean diddly.
I have met a few athletes' parents (never a big sport) and discussed recruiting with them to try to gain perspective on that whole thing. It's different when there aren't national media types all over it. Also in the non-revenue sports the rules governing revenue sports still apply and constitute a major, ludicrous burden on the recruits. For example the good schools will fill their classes/scholarship alottments long before the recruits are even allowed to take official visits, so the parents end up having to foot the entire bill for visits and paying the schools themselves to get their kids into the camps, and even the top kids are pressured to make their school decisions as sophomores. 15-year-olds!
The best advice you can give parents of kids going through the recruiting process is to get to know the coaches and support staff and also the other players and other parents. This is for any sport. When your kid goes to camps or "unofficial" visits and like, make sure your kid comes back with phone numbers of as many parents from current students as possible. You also should try to get in touch with parents of kids who left the program, since those parents will have a different viewpoint.
I don't think the decision of what college you attend is really "the most important decision in your life" or anywhere close. Differences between programs are not negligible, but collegiate programs are still all collegiate programs. As a parent, your rooting interests have to be sublimated by your interest in seeing your child enters a program that will respect your kid, honor your kid's scholarship, give your kid good role models and life lessons, and provide your kid the educational opportunities that best fit your kid's abilities.
Obviously I've thought a lot about this. Despite all the words here, it is pretty simple: I'll root for Michigan to my dying day, but if I ever have to put on green and white or scarlet and gray and bird poop stickers to support my kid, I'd do so without thinking twice.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:54 AM ^
at Misopogal!
December 21st, 2011 at 2:48 PM ^
If my kids are playing my alma mater, I'll want them to get crushed.
December 21st, 2011 at 2:48 PM ^
1. Because of previous family connections to Wisconsin, I've rooted for the Badgers since I was a kid as long as they weren't playing UM, and having a kid there solidified that.
2. Never. Will never root against UM in any sport at any time, regardless of circumstance.
3. She's now in grad school at BG, so I'll root for BG, except when they play UM like last season. When she was at Madison, I still rooted for Michigan against the Badgers when they played.
4. N/A.
December 21st, 2011 at 2:49 PM ^
i havent read all the comments, but I think you root for your kid for 4 years (or five) and then go from there...or do what Spielman's dad did and tell him where he was going. If my son is talented enough to play D1 ball, I would support his decision. But if he chose Ohio or little brother, i think he would be doing it to spite me, so..who knows!
December 21st, 2011 at 2:57 PM ^
December 21st, 2011 at 3:03 PM ^
My son is a huge M an has been attending games for years.
When applying for colleges my son refused to consider MSU or OSU and tore up all their mailings sent to him. I would have had no problem with MSU, but would have had a difficult time sending checks to Ohio.
He did not get into M on the first go around (yes from Illinois, Case Western and Marquette) and is trying to transfer to M.
It did not matter to me where he went, but I did create the fandom that killed any interest in MSU
December 21st, 2011 at 3:47 PM ^
As a father and UM grad:
I would root for whom ever my son played for, even against UM. However, if he just went to a different school and didn't play on the team, I would always root for UM but but would like to see what ever team he rooted for do well in all other games.
Blood > athletic rivalries
December 21st, 2011 at 3:49 PM ^
The only way I would root for a rival over Michigan would be if one of my daughters played for that rival. For instance, if one of my daughters played soccer for MSU, I would root for them to beat UM, but only in women's soccer.
I live in Michigan and am Irish, so I could see something happening with them. Or maybe Duke, if you consider them a rival in basketball. But no one in my house is going to OSU.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:55 PM ^
December 21st, 2011 at 4:23 PM ^
It might be a reasonable compromise to suggest to your wife that your child not be dressed in the garb of either school. Then, while he's is an infant, both of you can do your best to indoctrinate him without the presence of either school's name on his body, and let your child make his own choice when he's old enough. Whoever loves their alma mater the most will win, and that will be fair. Personally, I can't bring myself to wear clothing with any other college's name on it, even if it's not a rival of ours. I apply the same policy to my 2 year-old (luckily, my wife and I are both Michigan alums).
Congrats, BTW.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:47 PM ^
December 21st, 2011 at 4:49 PM ^
I have an unwritten policy of not wearing gear from any other B1G school or Michigan rival such as ND or even Texas (for all-time win reasons) but I always get T-shirts from other schools. The catch is I have to get the shirt from the campus bookstore. I only make a purchase if I'm on site. No online shopping allowed. Makes it a cool souvenir from the trip. I have Stanford, Berkeley, Boise State, McGill, Fordham, Columbia, Georgetown among others.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:31 PM ^
Since I don't live in the B1G footprint, this isn't too much of an issue for me. Theoretically though, I would think that my love for my children is one of the few things that trumps my love for Michigan. So if my son were to visit Ohio/MSU/ND and feel that one of those places is the best school for him, I wouldn't stand in his way. I would make my preference known and lobby hard for Michigan if that's an option, but I won't forbid him from attending a certain school if he thinks that's where he would be happiest.
If he actually played a sport for that school, then I would root for his team only in that sport and only for as long as he went there. Head-to-head against Michigan would be tough, but I would have to cheer for my son's team. But again, as soon as he graduated, I would revert back to cheering for Michigan against my son's alma mater. And probably even harder than before. If he didn't play a sport there, though, then my rooting interests would be unaffected. If anything, I would be even more annoying about my Michigan fandom in front of him, just to needle him and make him pay for his unfortunate decision.
If I had to pay his tuition though, I would transfer the money to my wife's account and make my wife write the check. I can't bring myself to sign over money to a rival school.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:17 PM ^
December 21st, 2011 at 4:31 PM ^
and if the two schools ever met I would 100% go with Michigan.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:47 PM ^
I have a family friend who had a son that decided to go to MSU and the Dad refused to write the checks to the school out of principle.
I figure that you have to appreciate someone who has such an unwavering moral compass that he is able to stand up for what he believes in regardless of the circumstances.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:54 PM ^
Um no thats just stupid and bitter, nothing to respect about that. There are many things more important than sports in this world, education is one of them.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:16 PM ^
Agree - any parent who refuses to help support his or her child's education due to a sports rivalry is simply a jerk.
My kids grew up in Ann Arbor as Michigan fans. But when it came time to apply for college, they all said that it was time to leave town and live somewhere else. I respected and supported their desire for independence. One son chose to go to MSU, is getting a fine education there, and has become a die-hard Sparty. I appreciate that - I have never respected fans who didn't root for the school they attended. He roots for MSU, I root for UM and we get along just fine.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:17 PM ^
Yes, and that education can be gotten at literally thousands of other schools. If the kid wanted that badly to go to MSU, that's his choice. But nobody has a right to their parents' money.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:29 PM ^
Its not so much a matter of a right to a parents money but the reason the parent refusing it being childish and pathetic. What if the family only had the money for in state and the kid wanted to be a vet? best choice is msu, I believe msu has a bettter musical, I mean to say no to a kids college decision because of sports is childish at best and I know personally I would have no respect for that parent as a person.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:08 PM ^
Well, I guess I'd better keep you away from my folks then because that's exactly what they told me, and I never had the slightest problem with it either.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:26 PM ^
December 21st, 2011 at 4:57 PM ^
From 91-96. I was born and raised Michigan fan. That has never changed. I grew up in NW Ohio and applied to Toledo, Michigan, and Ohio. I was accepted to each but just couldn't afford the out of state tuition. I was so depressed. So I went to the better engineering school, Ohio it was...
I wore my Michigan shirts around campus. I was looked at and maybe swore at behind my back, but no one ever jumped me or anything. My friends could only shake their heads and tell me they hate me because that was back in the day when we were 9-1-1 against Ohio. They had nothing on me. Oh the good ol' days.
What's funny is now I get more crap than ever about going to Ohio. Everywhere I go, Buckeye fans are amazed that I went to Ohio while being a Michigan fan. They all believe just because I went to that school, I should have changed allegences. When I say I hate Ohio and everything it stands for and explain myself, that's when the Buckeye fans really tear into me. 90% of which never attended the school and have no basis to defend it. Oh well. I know I'm right.
I am a proud Michigan fan will never change. Never. Go Blue!
December 21st, 2011 at 5:14 PM ^
then I want him to go to Michigan, unless he becomes a great golfer with PGA Tour talent(uh, no), then I say go south.
I went to Kenyon College, a very good Div. III school in Ohio, with a population under 2,000. They play Ohio Wesleyan in sports, who Michigan played back when there weren't many schools playing football.
As one mgoblogger said above, if Michigan played Kenyon in anything except Swimming, I would root for Michigan. In swimming, Kenyon College holds the NCAA record for most consecutive Nat'l Championsips (at least 28). Kenyon has a phenominal swimming program and they swim against bigger stronger programs every year.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:26 PM ^
I go to Toledo and if and In 09 I can honestly say I was for Michigan. Still to this day, kids wear the " Toledo takes over the big house" shirt. It drives me bonkers but I love the rockets outside of that. No I never applied for u of m but wish I had. Was tied to a girl out of hs and we both made the decision to go to school together. Broke up with her freshman yeah. Go figure.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:26 PM ^
is that their "fan" bias rubs off on their kids at an early age. Then when it comes time for their kid to pick a college, it is hard for them to not follow that "fandom." This makes no sense to me. Whether you were\are an athlete or not, you must pick the school that gives you the greatest opportunity to succeed and be happy down the road.
To turn down that school which fits that paradigm because you rooted for this football or that bball team makes no sense to me.
And yes, unfortunately for the kids I've seen, their parents are MSU fans, and their kids are turning down a Michigan education or another smaller school opportunity because together with their parents they always rooted for MSU. To me that is wrong in so many ways.
Not sure if I'm on point with the OP, but for goodness sake promote your kid in whatever way necessry so that they can follow whichtever path is best for them and not just feel compelled to go to a school that mom and pop root for on Saturdays.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:55 PM ^
When it comes to "success and happiness" why would you expect that kids who grow up as huge fans would find that at a school they hate? Like it or not, choosing a school is a very subjective, rarely objective process. People choose schools for all kinds of reasons, many of which have little to do with the educational quality of the place; why can't sports fandom be among them?
December 21st, 2011 at 6:31 PM ^
Granted, my kids are over a decade away from making college decisions, and as much as I will joke about having someone else sign checks to certain schools, I really want them to simply follow theirs dreams. If it happened to be the case that the best program for what one wanted to do was in Columbus, and they became an Ohio fan, I can accept that. I'll be as proud of them for following their aspirations as I am of my alma mater and I won't love them any less on the week of "The Game".
December 21st, 2011 at 6:52 PM ^
If i had a kid that attended OSU, ND or MSU, I'd still just root for Michigan and not care what those other teams did unless we played them (except in ND's case, I hope they lose every game).
Now if they played at a rival school, I'd probably root for their team except when they played Michigan. I just don't think I could ever root against us.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:00 PM ^
I've told my kids that they can go to any school they want, but that they have to have a good reason for going (no following a boyfriend/girlfriend, or because it's near a beach, or anything like that).
So that means that there are actually some schools that I look down my nose at, like Miami FL, that may be a better choice for them than Michigan if they want some specialty area.
Fortunately, there is no good reason whatsoever for them to pick MSU or Ohio State. There is nothing at those schools that they can't get better somewhere else.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:31 PM ^
The whole rivalry thing is what I'm dealing with right now. I've been accepted to Michigan but my mom, dad, and twin brother are all Sparties. I've dreamed of going to UM for a few years now and honestly feel that I'll probably be happier in Ann Arbor than East Lansing, but it will be a little weird to cheer against State. My parents are being supportive of whatever I decide to do (James Madison at MSU is attractive I have to admit) but it's definetely difficult for them, which I can respect.
I've been cheering for UM except for when they played MSU for a few years no. It was just too hard to cheer for a school that I wasn't sure I was going to get into. =) Now I'm kind of in limbo but leaning towards the Wolverines. Thank goodness my parents respect me enough to let me make these decisions, though.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:49 PM ^
Ann Arbor is a wonderful town, and you won't regret your choice.
And enjoy cheering for the Wolverines in every context from this point forward, perhaps especially against Spartie!
December 21st, 2011 at 8:06 PM ^
Given that I went to MSU myself and still cheer for Michigan, where my (currently hypothetical) kids go wouldn't change my fandom in the slightest. I'd hope they have the same good sense I do an would never root for somewhere like OSU or MSU. Should they end up playing for some rival school, I would root for their particular sport during their time on the team but no other sports and would stop altogether once they graduated.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:21 PM ^
This is an interesting thread.
Being a native Michigander, received two degrees from Michigan, did residency at the Medical Center, I bleed Maize and Blue.
Now that I live out of state, though, my kid better have a damn good reason for wanting to goto Michigan as an out-of-state school. Currently, from the website, it almost $19000 per term.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:17 PM ^
earned four varsity letters...I'm Blue to the death...my daughter has a vested interest in vet medicine and has already discussed the idea of little brother as a college of choice.. I'm still a number of years from realizing the financial burden of this process...however I'll support her to do as she wants. My son I believe dreams in Maize and Blue technicolor so I have that going for me...he wants more than anything to streak down the sidelines in the winged helmet as a receiver...so he's in the bank =). Athletics was a great experience I wouldn't trade for the world in Ann Arbor, but in the end it's only a small piece of life. My dad once explained that every executive in his company was a B1G grad...and it didn't matter where...so whatever works for them I'll support THEM...but I'll ALWAYS be BLUE...and if they choose other universities based on academic match, so be it...they'll shed a tear when we beat their asses... and we'll have a good laugh about it some day.
**side note..also knew a guy who had several kids, he was as diehard a UM fan as I've probably ever known...introduced me to the Wistert brothers long ago, and showed me around campus when his youngest (favorite) son was on campus in Ann Arbor...ALL the other boys went to Ohio or Indiana out of spite...says a lot for their character...amazing..as many have said, go to a University to better yourself and create opportunity and be happy. For me UM provided both/all...hope my kids do the same...be happy, make something better of themself.
December 22nd, 2011 at 12:57 AM ^
As a UM grad living out of state, only one of my three children had a real shot of attending UM because of the cost. My oldest daughter was a National Merit Scholar so could use scholarship money. She chose MSU, and I did not stand in her way. She's not a super gung-ho football fan, so that makes it a bit easier. We do some ribbing when it comes to the UM-MSU football game, and I do tone down some of my language when in contact with her. We share a mutual dislike for OSU, though, and she is intelligent and logical, so she can be persuaded to my point of view on some of the UM-MSU rivalry issues. She's currently working on a Ph.D. at North Carolina State, so I started teasing her before the season began that Russell Wilson was going to break her heart.
If she played sports or were really into supporting the Spartans, it would be a bit more difficult. And, I must say, she sometimes influences me as well when she comes up with good arguments to support her point of view. We are planning to go together to a local eatery/bar where the local MSU alumni congregate to watch MSU's bowl game, and yes, I will cheer on the Spartans and hope that they win, maybe not with the gusto that she will. Even had she never attended MSU, I would still hope for a Spartan victory. In most cases, whatever advances the conference as a whole helps UM too. I would never seek out an MSU watch party, though, were it not for her.
Btw, my father was an MSU grad. He never was a huge sports fan though, and he never tried to influence me to attend MSU. I became a Wolverine fan on my own, growing up watching football on tv during the Bo years. The most my father ever mentioned Spartan sports was to talk up Earl Morrall as a great football player. So maybe in my family school loyalty skips a generation and my grandchildren will be Wolverines.