What Is The Best Offensive Line You Have Seen During Your Michigan Fandom?
During the WTKA show this morning, the offensive line was brought up in a slightly negative way. I started to think back to when Michigan having a great offensive line was an afterthought, and was basically asumed before any given season started. So my question to the board is, what was the best offensive line you have seen during your time as Michigan fan?
Picture of Steve Hutchinson just for the hell of it:
December 2nd, 2016 at 6:39 PM ^
This isn't really even a question as your image hints at. It's the '99/'00 lines.
December 2nd, 2016 at 6:41 PM ^
This.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:00 PM ^
Seriously. Gee idk maybe the year we had 4 guys who all had at least 10 year nfl careers?
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:19 PM ^
Agree, believe they all went pro and some of the back ups
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:25 PM ^
For as good as they were, what the hell happened against MSU in '99? SIX rushing yards!
Not ragging on that pick, but seriously what the hell happened??
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December 2nd, 2016 at 7:34 PM ^
Secret: The OL wasn't that good that year. For the season they averaged 3.2 yards per carry, 118 rushing yards per game. That's not great. They weren't able to run particularly well against Alabama, either, but certain other members of the team managed to come back and make up for it.
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:12 PM ^
It doesn't speak too well of Mike DeBord that his offense struggled often to run the ball with that kind of talent. Even more so when you consider the amount of talent we had in the passing game back then, too.
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:29 PM ^
Agree 100%.
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:53 PM ^
That guy sucks.
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December 2nd, 2016 at 9:02 PM ^
I remember Bearman during the draft asking how the hell we had lost a game that year with all that talent.
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December 2nd, 2016 at 7:44 PM ^
but i really like everett; he's the best OL i've seen at UM.
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:10 PM ^
The lines during the five straight Big Ten titles (1988-92) were also really good.
By and large we had excellent lines from Bo's arrival until some point in the second half of Carr's tenure.
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:29 PM ^
Was a hell of an oline coach.
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:52 PM ^
That's it exactly. Something went amiss shortly after the turn of the century. There were still some individual players that were good after that point, but the overall lines generally weren't up to earlier standards.
December 2nd, 2016 at 9:39 PM ^
This is correct, at least in my time watching M since mid-80s. Probably more NFL talent on the 2000 line but for college play the 91-92 lines were the best. Despite getting destroyed by Emtman in the Rose Bowl.
December 2nd, 2016 at 6:40 PM ^
The lines during my tenure at U-M, '87-'90 seasons, were all pretty good.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:17 PM ^
Steve Everitt playing with a broken jaw. that was truly bad ass.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:25 PM ^
For some reason (and I'm too lazy to look it up), the Everitt jaw thing was after I was done. But yeah, Cocozzo, Vitale, Jumbo Elliott, Skrep, Dean Dingman, Tom Dohring...some monsters
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:25 PM ^
That 90 OL won the MVP award of the Gator Bowl as a group. That's a pretty strong vote there.
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:00 PM ^
My time was 1990 to 1994. As I recall those lines were pretty darn good. I don't remember many TFLs.
December 2nd, 2016 at 6:44 PM ^
It's obviously the 2013 team.
December 2nd, 2016 at 6:44 PM ^
I would say the 1999 team would be right up there. Some of the late 1990's as well.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:26 PM ^
Thats my pick. 1999.
December 2nd, 2016 at 6:50 PM ^
Kurt Becker.....Ed Muransky.....Tom Dixon......Stephan Humphries
Unlike officials in the game, I admit my bias.
December 2nd, 2016 at 6:49 PM ^
This is more of a "Are you old or not old?" thread.
December 2nd, 2016 at 6:52 PM ^
Hutch, Backus, and Jansen. Two 1st rders and all three selected top 37.
Not to totally derail the thread, but I often wonder who was Michigan's best receiving corp? A lot of great duos, but was there ever a better trio in terms of versatility than Braylon, Avant, and Breaston in 04? You literally had everything and all went on to have some success at the next level.
December 2nd, 2016 at 6:55 PM ^
Anthony Carter.........don't need three, when you got theeee ONE.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:28 PM ^
That was a good corps, as was the '06 group.
In 1990 we had Desmond Howard and Derrick Alexander. In 1992 Alexander was joined by young Amani Toomer. 1999 had David Terrell, Marcus Knight, and young Marquise Walker.
Lots to pick from. I would probably take '04 or '06, with Breaston as an excellent third option putting a good crew over the top.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:41 PM ^
were the same age. i believe they were the #1 and #2 ranked WRs in that class.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:50 PM ^
True. I tend to think of Terrell maturing sooner, while Walker really didn't emerge as a top threat until 2001 when he was the entire offense.
But a quick check of the stats reveals that both Knight and Walker cleared 30 catches that season, while Terrell had 61. So Terrell was indeed the alpha dog, but Walker was a bigger contributor than my memory recalls. Burnishes the reputation of the group as a whole.
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:56 PM ^
Toomer came in with Mercury Hayes, can't forget him. When Greg MacMurtry (from Brockton, Mass) and Chip Calloway were together, they were sometimes described as the best receiver combo in the nation. Calloway had a pretty good NFL career.
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December 2nd, 2016 at 11:12 PM ^
McMurtry and Chris Calloway. Yeah, great players. I checked their stats today, they were... less impressive than I remember.
Which is not a knock on them. It is entirely a function of the changing state of the game, especially the contrast between Bo and the modern era. Their stats don't look impressive because we are used to seeing stats from teams that pass 40 times a game. In their era, they were very good.
December 2nd, 2016 at 6:54 PM ^
97 was good. It didn't matter who ran the ball -- Howard, A-Train, Williams, Floyd -- they all ran well. That's always a sign of a great offensive line.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:32 PM ^
Averaged 43 carries for 171 yards per game, 4 yards per carry. Good, not great. The line was better in later years.
Our memory tends to overrate that offense because it won a title; it was not one of Lloyd's better offenses. Other phases of the game obviously made the difference.
December 2nd, 2016 at 10:12 PM ^
I also think they ran at teams who knew they were running. There wasn't much mystery what that offense was doing, especially when they realized A-Train could play. It was either a run or playaction to a TE/FB most the time.
December 2nd, 2016 at 11:13 PM ^
That was true every year of the Lloyd Carr era. They still had much more impressive running attacks in other years. And Thomas was good, but not great that year, as you would expect from a freshman playing behind a polished senior.
December 2nd, 2016 at 6:55 PM ^
actually think 2006 has an argument.
December 2nd, 2016 at 8:55 PM ^
I disagree. It had a once-in-a-generation talent (Jake Long) and a bunch of guys similar to what we have this year (beneficiaries of what amount to lifetime achievement awards from coaches and writers). IIRC no one else got beyond the practice squad level in the NFL. Compare that to the Hutchinson-Backus-Williams-Brandt line.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:02 PM ^
Any from 90-95
Honestly, those lines paved the way for BIG numbers from Vaughn, Powers, Wheatley and Biakabutuka among others.
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December 2nd, 2016 at 7:35 PM ^
I watched my first football game on Nov 22, 1969. I had no idea who was on the offensive line, or any other position for that matter. With that being the beginining of my love of Michigan football it didn't take me long to find out. Deirdorf, Mandich, McKennzie, Brandstetter, etc., was a damn fine line with a couple being in the NFL and College Halls of Fame and the others winning conference honors.
1997,in Lloyd's opinion, wast the best he ever had and inasmuch as the majority came from the defensive line and I think most were drafted he might have a point. DL are generally more athletic than their offensive counterparts so if you have that athletic ability, coupled with the ability to handle the complexity of offensive line assignments, with the pure strength needed, etc., you're going to get a good bunch: Backus, Jansen, Ziemann, Brandt, Frazier. Think they were all drafted. Not sure.
The one with Cocozzo, Dingman, Dohring, Ellito, Everitt certainly has to be up there. Just too damn many during that almost 40 year period, but Bo's first is certainly not a bad place to start if you can't think of other units.
Then, of course, with Bubba Parris being the anchor, whoever surrounded him probably comprised a damn good unit. Just too damn many to declaritively state The Best.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:09 PM ^
Also, can someone explain what happened...
...the past 10 years or so with regards to our OL. If we were so committed to having these beastly lines in the past, then what happened? Was it recruiting acumen, changes in the way the game was played, etc?
It seemed RR liked smaller more agile/athletic lineman, but maybe that's because he couldn't recruit well in that area. I dunno, I'm at novice so If anyone can educate me on the philosophy of OL, I would be greatly appreciated.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:14 PM ^
Or, Rodriguez liked to recruit only ONE lineman for an entire recruiting class.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:16 PM ^
Lloyd kind of fell of the recruiting mountain, slowly. Rodriguez went another direction, and didn't realize he was at Michigan and could get the top recruits. Hoke didn't develop who he brought in. That's pretty much it, one thing leading to another.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:23 PM ^
Combination of a few factors. The last couple years of Carr's tenure weren't great for the OL. Then, as you mentioned, Rich Rod came in with a completely different philosophy. He favored the smaller, more athletic lineman to fit the zone blocking required by the zone read spread offense. Then it took him a while to get players to fit that scheme.
After that you had Hoke who wanted to go back to a traditional manball OL, and the staff did an okay job recruiting, but those type of players don't just come in as freshman and dominate. It takes time and getting coached up. When you go from RR to Hoke with Borges and then Nussmeier, then Harbaugh comes in with Drevno, it's tough to have the consistency needed for the long term development of a unit like the OL.
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December 2nd, 2016 at 7:10 PM ^
Sometimes we look at offensive lines in hind sight after NFL drafts and careers validate what we thought was a good OL. But for performance purposes, the early 90's lines with Steve Everitt and Greg skrepnak were outstanding. The Hutchinson and Backus line was good. I always wonder how great we would have looked if we didn't run offenses coordinated by average offensive coordinators in those early Carr years.
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December 2nd, 2016 at 7:19 PM ^
Everitt Rules.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:26 PM ^
Absolutely Everitt deserves kudos.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:17 PM ^
years for me. Biakabutuka/Wheatley I think. I was a kid but I remember them making huge holes.
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:24 PM ^
I dont really see why people are predicting a regression based on our o line graduating 3 players. They were a very mediocre unit, not bad, but definitely not special. It's akin to our linebacking corp last year graduating 3 mediocre players--and that unit was better this year
December 2nd, 2016 at 7:36 PM ^
It's also about who will replace them, and depth. Right now it's very hard to predict how they will do.