Yeah, but, they lost so... I'm happy.
[West] Standings- Thanks a lot, Brutus.
Yeah, but, MSU and Nebraska losing is more helpful to Michigan.
Which is more important to you, Michigan succeeding or Ohio not succeeding?
I disagree with the notion that Nebraska or MSU losing was more beneficial to Michigan. I will agree that for this specific season, it probably increases our odds to win the Big Ten, however, in the long-term, Ohio losing is FAR more beneficial to Michigan.
If Ohio struggles, their recruiting is likely to fall off, making it easier for Michigan to beat them on a yearly basis. This is important not only because it likely improves Michigan's recruiting, but also because think about if Hoke begins to beat up on Ohio for a while? It will solidify him at Michigan and put an end to the theory of Michigan struggling, etc.
Also, let's not act as if those teams losing would have helped us THAT much. If we end up losing to MSU and Nebraska, it will probably not make any difference. If Michigan wins they will help themselves.
I will ALWAYS root against Ohio no matter who they face
Or, you know, we could do it the old fashion way and BEAT MSU AND NEBRASKA OURSELVES. Yes, I was yelling. I am not worried about somebody else beating them, since we play them this year. Its our job. If we lose we don't deserve to be ahead of them i the division. Seriously.
1 loss should elimante us...If we lose to MSU this week just cancel the rest of the season ecause were not doing it the old fashioned way.
That's not what he said jerk off
Yes it is more helpful if MSU and Nebraska lose. But, remember: Michigan has a chance to take care of business on the field with both of them. So, we can have our cake and eat it too.
I want to see OSU lose. Every. Single. Week.
what the answer is in Cbus. Pathetic.
if they lose to Michigan. If they win every other game then lose to us then it helps Michigan, if they lose every single game including against Michigan then it helps us not at all. Understand?
UM succeeding. We're not MSU/Dantonio ("two victories in one day . . .").
I can't help but to get excited when I see that. How all of the teams in our division have faltered is beyond me...
If we deserve to the divison, then great, but I will root for an 0-12 season for the Buckeyes every year.
As much as I hate Ohio, if they were 0-12 every year then the rivalry would be diminished because Michigan would walk all over them each year. That does not mean I root for Ohio, but I wouldn't want them 0-12 every year
I wouldn't worry about degrading the rivalry. It didn't happen the last 3 years while we were down, and it ain't happening next 10 years while Ohio struggles to find a decent coach
I wouldn't get too far ahead of yourself by saying the the rivalry hasn't diminished over the last couple of years. Although it will always mean plenty to those intimately involved, it has certainly diminished on a national level. I have lived in south carolina and florida over the last 5 years. SEC fans used to pay a lot of attention to THE GAME, now it's just another game to watch on a saturday. Don't be fooled into thinking this rivalry will always be nationally relevant; both teams need to be relevant in order for anyone outside of big ten country to care.
will never diminish with those who find it important, namely the people of Michigan and Ohio. This rivalry has been going on since 1835 when the Toldeo war broke out. I doubt those that have revelled in this storied rivalry like Yost, Crisler and Schembechler would give a rip what the SEC thinks about their Rivalry game with tsio or what people think on a national level.
Yeah but it would also mean our status in conference and nationally would be that much more elevated, we would continue to recruit well in Ohio, someone else would pick up the slack and be better and we'd have a bigger game against them...I'm sure there are negatives about the goose egg for Brutus but as far as I'm concerned I'm down with them going 0-12, sorry rivalry...
results from some combo of a team's wins and its opponents' losses, so. . . "deserving". . . hmmm.
but theres something very right about Michigan and Ohio State meeting in November with matching 11-0 records. That sort of tradition is why Michigan and Ohio State is the greatest rivalry in sports.
People around here act like this is baseball or something. Michigan needs to win the conference by besting their opponents on the field. If I have to root for OSU for us to win our division, they we don't deserve it. If OSU was playing Satan's own army, I'd root for Satan.
Well put. UM doesn't need to worry about what OSU or any other team from the Leaders division does against Legends division teams. UM only needs to focus on winning each of its games. If UM beats MSU and Nebraska head-to-head it won't matter what OSU did or didn't do against them.
In summary: F*ck OSU. Go Blue!
You want to take care of your own business first, then think about what happens to the other guy. If Michigan wins, then they will be atop the standings. I may root for OSU sometimes (rare though they are) but I am not shedding any tears over their 0-2 start.
OSU was playing Satan's own army
Isn't that called in intrasquad scrimage?
yes they wear the scarlet.
.....intellectually, everyone is well-aware as to why we need OSU to at least show up at the game, but on an emotional level, it is a terrible lowering of personal barriers to even consider cheering on OSU.
If OSU loses every game and we win every game, does it matter? No...so I want us to do our job and not care what others do, especially tOSU
Beating MSU puts us in the drivers seat for the division. Really hoping Nebraska and MSU lose next weekend.
Why anyone would root for Nebraska over OSU is completely beyond my understanding.
You obviously have not experienced the pain of taking classes while surrounded by idiots. A crowd of idiots wearing OSU hats and Salty Dog Cafe T-shirts while Facebooking in the middle of lecture. It's those guys that drive me crazy, even more than the guys who make it on the TV at gametime.
next weekend, plays Minny the week after that. OSU has a chance to help us by beating the Illini in Champaign.
OSU v Illinois is in the other division and has no effect on us.
AKA, Go Illini!
It does to the extent of answering the question: who will we face in the B1G championship if we make it there?
How does that help us?
I'm really, really hoping MSU loses next weekend too.
Also, although we should root for OSU, I'm totally okay with them being a tire fire for a couple of years.
They are THE Ohio State University. I rest my case.
We will really be in the drivers seat if we beat MSU, because they have the "privilege" of playing Wisconsin. If they lose that too, then they'll have two B1G losses and we'd have to lose three to finish behind them because of the tiebreak that we would hold in that situation.
After an M victory over MSU, we will obviously be in the drivers seat wrt to MSU. Further, the Nebraska loss to Wisky gives us an edge over the Cornhuskers, but we still have to beat the them.
You should try getting it more
Don't you think I've had this chat with my spouse?
Justingoblue, if you don't understand why anyone would root for Nebraska over OSU, then you don't understand the rivalry.
What is this? I don't even understand.
It's fun to hate your rival but they aren't your rival if you can't respect them. I don't actively root for them but I would rather we beat them in a good year for them than in a bad year for them. The only day it really matters is that last game in November. That's when it's important that they lose. Other than that, I see them as an instrument of our benefit. Ideally, they would beat the people in our division and lose to the ones in their own.
No, you don't understand.
I commend your courage and agree. There is a strong likelihood that the M-OSU rivalry is dimished over time under the current division structure. The goal is to win Big Ten championships. In order to win those you first need to win your division and beating folks in your division (MSU and Nebraska) is more important to winning the division than is beating OSU. Because, when you beat MSU and Nebraska you not only improve your record, you worsen a division foes record and you gain the tie breaker. Of those, beating OSU only improves your record.
Hoke does though. He gets it, amirite?????
If we're going to start making judgements, I could just as easily say that you don't understand what it means to support Michigan football if you root for Legends teams to beat Leaders teams in crossover games.
Winning the division helps Michigan, Nebraska losing increases the odds of Michigan doing that. There is no room for interpretation here, it's fact.
I thought I may have been getting a little too personal questioning anyone's understanding of the rivalry, but don't try to make me out as the bad guy "start(ing) to make judgments.". You did that in your original comment.
I said that I didn't understand why anyone would, I didn't make a personal judgement about anyone's fandom.
If you want to give me a concrete reason to root for a divisional opponent to beat a non-divisional opponent (that's also a better reason than increasing the odds of a BTCG berth), I will admit that I'm wrong. Until then, I will continue to not understand this thinking.
I don't know of any Michigan fans who are fond of OSU. I hope they lose every game in their division in embarrassing fashion and we pants them on November 26. I also want to eliminate every divisional opponent from contention as soon as possible, which means hoping OSU beats Nebraska and MSU. Maybe a better way to put it is saying I hope those teams lose, would that be better with everyone?
But , but, but we shouldn't "back-'in", we should win it for ourselves! In fact, it is painfully clear that we should absolutely refuse an invitation to the Big Ten championship game in any year in which we lose any divisional game. Why turn an invite down in those circumstances? Because, obviously in any year that you lose a divisional game the only way that you could get a chance to go the the championship game is someone else helped you. And obviously, that is below us!
In all seriousness, I don't get the logic that an OSU loss > than increasing M chances of going to the championship game. Whether or not those chances are increased via "backing-in"".
You are crossing the line Isaac. What Justin said wasn't the least bit offensive. He simply stated that he didn't understand why anyone wouldn't root for Ohio in these games. You went on to question the fandom of those that disagreed with your sentiment.
Furthermore, i think it's fair to say that you are the one that doesn't "get it". Obviously every person that is reading this wants Michigan to take care of their own business. However I, and I can only speak for myself, don't mind hedging my bets by hoping that the teams that are in our division lose to whomever they're playing.
Red Sox fans were cheering their hearts out for the Yankees in their final regular season series against the Rays. Does that make them any less of a Red Sox fan? Me thinks not.
because i effing hate tsio and we will take care of nebraska anyway. also, i guess i don't yet really accept the legitimacy of the divisions. we're clearly the best team in our division and will not need any help from anyone, at least this season.
it won't matter. If we don't win, then we shouldn't be ahead of the teams we lose to anyway. If OSU loses, I smile and dance and laugh and sing gleefully.
Therefore, I want OSU to lose. Today. Tomorrow. Forever. I want Troy Smith's great grandchildren to never guess correctly when flipping a coin, and wonder why it is they have such bad luck.
Yes! Yes! Yes!
I want OSU to lose. Today. Tomorrow. Forever.
This should be emblazoned on a gold plaque and proudly displayed over the door to the "mancave" of every Michigan fan in the world.
Thank you for getting it
I'll gladly take a tougher division race to see buckeye nation get dong punched every week
As a Umich fan growing up in that state cheering against OSU is pure instinct; however as a sooner, I have hated on Nebraska for nearly as long. In the end, I still go back to that state -- the rents still live there -- so I ended up cheering for the cornf$&@ers.
Yes that was my inner sooner coming out again.
I don't care. I love seeing OSU lose. Unless I knew for a fact that Michigan would win the division if Ohio State won a particular game, I could never root for OSU. At this point, it is way too speculative and Michigan has way to many games in front of them to start thinking about winning the division. None bigger than the one coming up.
It also really helps from a recruiting stand point. We are finally starting to have success against OSU head-to-head in their state. If they have a couple rough years, we could potentially take over Ohio recruiting.
Meh. If we take care of business we're fine.
This is a chance to break the prison team's back. To put a hurt on them that it will take years to get over. They get beat week after week, then we destroy them on the last game, I'm a very happy man. I want to watch them crawl out of the Big House, humilated and bowl-less; then get hammered by the NCAA.
Would serve them, and their corrupt administration, right.
We will have to beat the teams on the schedule any way you look at it. I WILL NEVER ROOT FOR OSU. This is implicit among Michigan fans and does not need to be spelled out or justified.
I asked my uncle if he hoped tsio would lose even if it meant nebraska starting the conference 0-2. He said "Ya. I hope they'd lose to nazi germany if they played em too."
It doesn't matter what happens in the other games if we win all of ours.
Fuck Ohio. You know what helps us win our division? Winning our division games. I'm not going to cheer for the Buckeyes to beat MSU or Nebraska, because I plan on Michigan beating them. If that doesn't happen, we don't deserve to go to Indy. Period.
Champaign problems. If you had told me before the season that we were having trouble winning our division because all of the other teams were racking up wins against OSU, who was experiencing excruciating losses week after week, I would not have complained.
at first i thought you meant the game against illinois...
I will Never root for those bastards. Thats like asking them for a favor. We need to earn it. If we need to root for Ohio to gain something, im out.
M will just has to beat the crap out of State and Nebraska then.
I don't care what the win means to them or to us, just....no. Never.
My head understands exactly what you mean. It totally helps Michigan if OSU wins games against teams in our division. That is a simple and plain fact.
My heart, however, sees that it is OSU and tells my head to STFU. Last night, my poor brain was already loosing a battle with pre- during and post-NW game beer consumption. It had no defense to my OSU-hate filled heart. So, I watched and laughed as OSU continues to get exactly what it deserves.
There is no logic to it. It just is.
I'll root for OSU if their win would definitely help Michigan's chances of making it to the B1G championship game. As in the week before The Game, Michigan is 5-2 and OSU is playing Nebraska who is 4-2 with a win over Michigan and plays Indiana the following week. In that scenario OSU has to beat Nebraska and then we get to curb stomp OSU to make it to the championship game.
Looks like scoring in the B1G games, and wasn't updated for the night games.
Cumulative scoring for their two B1G games.
58-0 (against UM) and 45-17 (against Purdue) == 103 allowed and 17 forced
because if we would have rooted for OH*, it might have had an impact on the game!!!
Down with Ohio*!
rooting for OSU in any event for any reason. I have gotten over my absolute hatred of Miami (YTM) and nowthere is no school on any day or night, game or match where I would even consider rooting for Ohio.
In my lifetime, it will not happen. I understand The Rivalry needs OSU and Michigan to be good. The problem is that if Michigan and OSU have identical records, the media will see OSU as better and they will considered to to be "better."
Michigan does not cheat or lie or deceive to get an advantage. We recruit and play by the rules. OSU is a 'win-at-all-costs' program. If they became India or Minnesota for the next decade I'm OK with that. I see Nebraska becoming a strong rival with the divisions set up as they are.
And as much as I hate to says it, Dantonio is building a decent program in EL and they will not be a pushover as long as he is there it seems.
I know at least a half dozen fans from my college days. That was during the Cooper years, and even in those years, when we owned them, the Ohio fans were insufferable. I detest Ohio because of the their fans. I will never root for Ohio fans to be able to say their team won.
With all the crap they have going on this season, I had to listen to them brag wildly during the first half of their game with Nebraska. Being able to tell them to shut the hell up after the game, was almost better than Michigan's win this week over Northwestern.
Like people have already noted. If Michigan deserves to win their division they will. Michigan has to handle its own business. That way we don't have to worry about what Ohio is doing.
Root foe tuos???? No way...I want week ater week after week of this unfolding debacle.
for Michigan to control. The only time Michigan can control the outcome of an Ohio game is when they play. The rest of the time I root against them, just as I do against MSU and ND.
I know you're supposed to root for the conference to do well, but when it comes to osu I cannot. I do root for MSU in bowl games and in the basketball tournament when Michigan is not playing them, but other than they can always lose. If ND lost every game they play in every sport for eternity I would be happy, the same with OSU. I can't tru;y justify it, that is just the way I see it.
the other teams in our division lose games within the division, losing to the Leaders helps, but is not as meraningful as losing within the division. If osu wins all their divison games and is tied in overal league record then they would represent the Leaders Division in the championship game. The losses to msu and Neb. wouldn't mean as much. OSU losing to Nebraska ia a double "good". They lose in the division and they...well...lose.
If Michgan takes care of it's business, like we all hope then rooting for osu and msu to always lose is perfectly fine.
There's a thread on their message board titled "Bauserman quit the team or die!". Then there's another thread with the title "How stupid is the ohio state fanbase?" and in that he goes on to tell of some of the embarssing things he heard on the radio today and mentions the bauserman thread.
Someone else tries to defend their stupidity by saying "It's because we are the biggest and most passionate fanbases in college football..."
Brutus says, "What a conference! We can beat Michigan by losing!
I know that this has been touched on before, but Michigan competes with Ohio State for recruits. If they lose, we're in their state, stealin their doodz. Also, Ohio State losing usually means that Ohio State is not a very good team, also a good thing for Michigan Michigan desperately, desperately needs a win over Ohio State. The last time that we won was before the existence of MGoBlog! So I root against Ohio State. It's a lot more important to me that Michigan beat Ohio State than win the legends title. I'm a senior at Michigan and I've never had a chance to see Ann Arbor when the good guys win. I don't want to miss it when it happens. So I welcome every crushing defeat of Ohio State as a sign of hope, as a possible way for Michigan to do what it hasn't been able to do in eight long years.
Also, the more OSU loses, the more Hoke will change the tide of the rivalry and sell Michigan jerseys in Ohio.
"The last time that we won was before the existence of MGoBlog!"
Wow, that's quite a perspective. There have never been Ohio State Muppets.
That can not stand. Ohio State Muppets must be a moral imperative for Hoke, Borges, and Mattison.
There have been years in the past where I have rooted for OSU for tactical reasons to beat a team that was ahead of us in the Big Ten. There will be years in the future where I will need to do it again.
But this year, my focus is strategic. The OSU program is a breath away from total implosion. Every loss gets closer to the balloon poping. In the meantime, Michigan is ascending back to elite status.
We need Ohio State to get to such a state of hopeless disarray that recruits like Dunn don't even think twice.
why people get happier and happier as OSU implodes more and more. Don't get me wrong, Oh how I HATE, Ohio State... but a good OSU program helps out the Mich program, as well as the entire B1G. I wish none of this crap ever happened to Ohio. I would still hate em just as much whether they did everything perfectly behind the scenes or not. I want to see them be powerful program... that gets overpowered by Michigan :P I'd rather beat them vs Pryor & Co. as a dog this year then beat an anemic, depleated Ohio squad.
neg me if you want... but the Buckeyes being a doormat combined with continual off the field probs is not what a Mich fan should want.
Some of the sweetest victories in the Cooper era were when Ohio was highly ranked, came into the game as favorites and we took it to them. It is not good for the conference, the rivalry or ultimately us if they stink for long. I still hurt from the '06 loss, but that circumstances going into that game were epic. It wouldn't have been nearly as much fun if Ohio was 3-8 coming in. Admittedly, In the short run watching Ohio flounder is fun.
As far as the "it helps us in recruiting if they are bad" argument. That again, is short term. If they are bad long term, either the conference is weakeened and premier recruits will be more likely to go to more competive conferences or another team rises in the conference. If another team rises, then we are battling that new team for the recruits. That is, from a recruiting standpoint, you trade Ohio for someone else.
It's early in the Big Ten season, there are plenty of opportunities to hope for Sparty and New Corney defeats. But the pure joy of watching the nuts' collective head exploding is just too much fun -- throw in some NCAA sanctions and a poor coaching hire, and we could be looking at at least a half decade of dominance on the field and in recruiting. This will lead to our long-term, sustained success.
Yep, we may very well lose 2 Big Ten games this year (see first half of most games against serious opponents this year), and while we also have a chance to win this thing on the field, we may need some help. So, cheer for Wisky against Sparty and expect a classic Sparty collapse at Iowa or Northwestern. If we beat Nebraska, then they have two loses and we've got the tiebraker. So, we can trip up against an Iowa or Illinois.
I always cheer for OSU to lose. By a lot. As in, if they lost 100-0, I would wonder why the opposing coach didn't run up the score more. They can never be embarrassed enough after the hypocrisy of the last few months and the cheating coming out from down South.
We can probably let this go now - tsio has 5 divisional games, which don't affect us and 3 crossovers - us and the last two weeks which are in the past now - we all can now move on to routing for them to lose the rest of their games - we can then restart the should we rout for tsio in about 50 weeks from now.
But let's see how October shakes out. Nothing worse than beating teams like Minnesota and Northwestern and then thinking about bowl games and division titles. The easiest part of Michigan's schedule is in the rearview mirror. Now things get interesting.
Other than Purdue at home, none of these upcoming games strike me as a walk in the park.
But the splitting of the league doesn't change anything. If you keep winning in Big Ten play, then you control your own destiny.
Does it really matter who I "root" for? As I sit on my couch and enjoy the feeling I get as I watch Ohio lose for the second week in a row, am I sending some cosmic force thru my tv, lifting Nebraska to victory? Are my good vibes pushing them over the top? Don't think so. My friends from Ohio and the few of my relatives that are sparties are some of the most annoying fans in the world. When they win, I have to hear about how amazing they are ad nauseum. My life is much better and less annoying when they lose. Besides, I didn't expect Michigan to be competing for a division, let alone a B1G title this year, so as long as they keep winning and the rival's schadenfreude continues, the rest is just gravy.
Michigan controls its fate. Beat MSU and the division goes through AA.
Technically, at this point anybody in our division with less than two conference losses controls their own fate. That includes, M, MSU, UNL and Iowa. As you point out, the winner of the M-MSU tilt continues to control its own fate, but UNL and Iowa will also continue to control their own fate until they lose again in conference.
These "you should/shouldn't be rooting for OSU" threads are ridiculous and tiresome. It matters not who/what you root for. It has no effect on anything. If you prefer that OSU loses, fine. If you prefer they win, fine. There are logical reasons for both situations. At the end of the day, Michigan should be deciding their own fate. If we back into a title game, I'll be happy but not satisfied. I'd rather be that than unhappy, sure, but I'd really rather be satisfied that Michigan took care of its own business.
You can cheer for Brutus all you want, but I won't until it is absolutely neccessary. The "reasons" people are giving right now are conjecture and dependent upon a lot of "ifs" that may or may not happen.
I want to see their program collapse into a black hole and get lost for at least five years. That requires them losing. And that will benefit Michigan much more than maybe getting to the B1G Championship Game a year early.
you never root for tsio. the divisions be damned. if you noticed, we are alone atop the division without their unwanted help. we are succeeding just fine, we don't need help from them.
Take Ohio out of the equation and what do folks think? After M beats MSU, do you want MSU to beat Nebraska? At this point, MSU is probably more a rival than Nebraska. But, under that scenario, having MSU beat Nebraska is good for M. It opens up some breathing room and means that M could drop a conference game against anybody (including Nebraska) and still be assured of going to the championship game (based on the highly likely assumption that Iowa loses another game in conference).
I get the just take care of business and you don't have to "back-in" sentiment, but backing in would be better than being shut out.