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We Shouldn't Fire RR

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:30 PM
#1
maizenbluedevil
maizenbluedevil's picture
Joined: 09/12/2008
MGoPoints: 6885
We Shouldn't Fire RR

Note/Disclaimer: I am most definitely *not* in the Fire RR camp. This post will contain some questions/food-for-thought for the tidal wave of Fire RR posters that will no doubt amp up their rantings.

1) Do you actually read this blog or just post rants? The cupboard is absolutely bare on defense. How much can you expect from the coaching staff in light of this?

2) It's the players who execute, not the coaches. Example: 4 run plays from the 1 yard line, one of those should get in.

3) And this perhaps is the biggest one: The only reason to fire a coach is if you can reasonably get a better one who will improve the situation.

News flash: LES MILES ISN'T COMING.

Two years ago, he might have. He's not now. Get over it.

Why? He's a smart man. He's not going to step into this shitstorm. He no doubt realizes all the things that the Fire RR camp are overlooking.

RR is a very good, highly regarded coach. We fire him, there are a dozen other schools waiting to snatch him up. We fire him, we create more discontunuity, completely screwing ourselves over recruiting wise. We fire him, it will set the football program back 5 years.

So, before you react solely out of emotion and irrationality, flooding the board with totally valueless content, think on these things.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:32 PM
#2
cpt20
Joined: 11/02/2008
MGoPoints: 377
Please no, don't start doing

Please no, don't start doing this. I know i know but please no threads like this. Give RR next year, please.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:34 PM
(Reply to #2) #3
maizenbluedevil
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Joined: 09/12/2008
MGoPoints: 6885
Did you actually read my

Did you actually read my post?

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:38 PM
(Reply to #4) #4
cpt20
Joined: 11/02/2008
MGoPoints: 377
Sorry, I read the title and

Sorry, I read the title and it it said Fire RR, so I just said that. I deserve the negs.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM
(Reply to #9) #5
maizenbluedevil
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Joined: 09/12/2008
MGoPoints: 6885
Actually, it said "Fire RR?"

Actually, it said "Fire RR?" As in, a question, posed to the Fire RR posters, which was unpacked in the actual post.

A mod most have changed it to the current headline, which is more informative and if nothing else more straightforward, I reckon.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM
(Reply to #15) #6
cpt20
Joined: 11/02/2008
MGoPoints: 377
Yeah, I'm sorry. People are

Yeah, I'm sorry. People are just freaking out and when I read the title I just said that. Good post btw.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:39 PM
(Reply to #2) #7
HartAttack20
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Joined: 06/08/2009
MGoPoints: 1964
Um......

Did you read the thread title at least?

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:34 PM
#8
bouje
bouje's picture
Joined: 09/30/2008
MGoPoints: 4703
+1,000,000,000,000

There are not enough points in the universe. As the other Brian put it: "I hate Michigan fans sometimes". This month has been one huge hate storm for me.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:38 PM
(Reply to #3) #9
los barcos
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Joined: 03/27/2009
MGoPoints: 792
shut up bouje

95% of this mgocommunity hates you.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:40 PM
(Reply to #8) #10
HartAttack20
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Joined: 06/08/2009
MGoPoints: 1964
Why?

Personally, I have no reason to hate anybody on here. Don't really know anybody, so I can't pass judgements to people I've never even met. So count me out of that 95%.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM
(Reply to #8) #11
octal9
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Joined: 11/11/2008
MGoPoints: 5775
You are most certainly

not 95% of the community.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:49 PM
(Reply to #8) #12
Tim
Joined: 07/08/2008
MGoPoints: 12887
It must be really awkward for

It must be really awkward for people to agree with Bouje against you. No big.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:24 PM
(Reply to #33) #13
los barcos
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Joined: 03/27/2009
MGoPoints: 792
oh

SNAP

edit being facetious on the previous post

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October 31st, 2009 at 9:30 PM
(Reply to #3) #14
clarkiefromcanada
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Joined: 11/21/2008
MGoPoints: 37504
September everything is wine and Rose Bowls...

October gets you a couple tight losses MSU and Iowa (both could have realistically gone either way) and some laid eggs of late.

Cue the ongoing talk of regression etc...

You're preaching to the choir bouje.

Best wishes

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:35 PM
#15
I Wrote a 4 Wor...
I Wrote a 4 Word Letter's picture
Joined: 08/25/2009
MGoPoints: 1836
Thank you.

Thank you.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:36 PM
#16
blueheron
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Joined: 03/26/2009
MGoPoints: 2579
Thank you.

There's only one reason this wasn't a complete disaster. Illinois does honestly have some good players, and Juice didn't pile up those numbers by being incompetent for three years. It's not much of a reach to say that they had one good game in them this year. UM just happened to be the victim.

I realize that sounds like sugarcoating. Don't get me wrong -- this loss still hugely $ucks. As well, from a distance I have to wonder about matters like composure, etc.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:45 PM
(Reply to #6) #17
mrjblock24
Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 51
We don't "just happen" to be

We don't "just happen" to be the victims. We happen to be a team that fumbles a lot, can't run with anyone on D, don't have the coaching wherewithall to know that Carlos Brown is not our best goalline option, or that if you need 3 scores and one can be a field goal that you should kick the field goal to give your team a chance. We're not victims, we dug our own grave.

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October 31st, 2009 at 9:25 PM
(Reply to #6) #18
fatbastard
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Joined: 01/03/2009
MGoPoints: 792
You are right about Illinois having talent,

but it was, in fact, a total and complete unmitigated disaster, period. Illinois had given up after Roundtree's touchdown. We make really really bad offensive calls with the wrong personnel in the game (until 4th down), and Illinois drives to score, and it looked to me like the team gave up for about 10 minutes. I don't know if that's a reflection on the staff's attitudes during that time, but I don't know what else to attribute it to. But, bottom line, the perpetual fumbling, bad calls, bad clock management, and downright poor playcalling today leaves this undoubtedly as a 100% Complete Disaster. Personally, I think this is worse than the loss to Appy State. We knew who Illinois was. We had them beat and demoralized. And, as quick as that, it's over with the help of some indefensible coaching decisions.

I hope Rod looks in the mirror, goes back to review the tape and learns something about HIS approach to the game today, not just the lack of execution from his players.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM
#19
gtanman15
Joined: 07/27/2009
MGoPoints: 0
we shouldn't fire him

but the excitement of bringing in slot ninjas and 'dude, totally owning the big ten' is over.

I don't think he's a great coach. He's certainly not the coach we all made him out to be. He's made questionable decisions this game, last game, last year, this year.

Plus, we're playing Illinois man. This is the worst team in the Big Ten. They're last in most ofeensive and defensive categories.

The team DOES NOT take care of the ball and fumbles all the time. It's not all on the players. They don't tuck the ball in. Punt returners are lined up too far from the kick. Stupid, sloppy, CORRECTABLE things that just don't get corrected.

Turnovers are random and all that blah blah blah, so judging by being 110th and 100th in turnover margin last year and this year, they should be fucking #1 in turnover margin next year right?

EDIT: I'm not saying he should be fired at all. I realize firing him would be terrible for the program. I guess I'm saying that instead of winning a NC in the next 5 years, I think our ceiling is much lower than I originally thought when he was hired.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:51 PM
(Reply to #7) #20
CaliFan
CaliFan's picture
Joined: 11/20/2008
MGoPoints: 86
Actually...

Illinois is not the worst team in the Big Ten....unfortunately we are.

Please don't neg just because you don't like what I say...I am still with this team, but we have shown that but for a last minute win against Indiana..we would 0-5 in the Big Ten.

That is not me being negative, that is a cold, hard fact.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:56 PM
(Reply to #37) #21
gtanman15
Joined: 07/27/2009
MGoPoints: 0
Not negging you

This is the retort to your argument: If we are the worst team in the big ten, then we made zero improvement since last year.

To me, that looks just as bad. You can't even say the conference is better this year than last year.

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October 31st, 2009 at 8:29 PM
(Reply to #47) #22
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 51882
And how long is the "cupboard" being bare not RR's fault

I hope Marvin Robinson can play every position on the defense because that is about all we have coming in. Two years, three conference wins, Penn State 80 - Michigan 27, back to back losses to MSU, countless transfers, three consecutive less than recruiting classes, a pending NCAA investigation. Hey, let's re-up with him for ten years... he's doing a great job. Good thing Purdue looked a lot worse than I thought, bowl eligibility (albeit the "Pizza Pizza Bowl) not out of the question.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:39 PM
#23
Magnum P.I.
Magnum P.I.'s picture
Joined: 07/16/2009
MGoPoints: 11281
Good points

but I'm not as worried about whether or not his system is good but rather if the players can still believe in it after so much failure, which is the same thing. We'll see how the team rebounds, but let's be real here: two losing seasons in a row should mean the door for any coach at the University of Michigan.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:44 PM
(Reply to #11) #24
LongLiveBo
LongLiveBo's picture
Joined: 08/05/2009
MGoPoints: 33140
Three years with what they

Three years with what they decided to take on. If we don't see a dramatic improvement next year RR and staff hit the road.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:12 PM
(Reply to #22) #25
Magnum P.I.
Magnum P.I.'s picture
Joined: 07/16/2009
MGoPoints: 11281
All's fair in love and

football coaching. If we lose out, then all bets on RR getting a third year are off. You'll see that already strong anti-RR faction get a whole lot more swelled up if we tack on another losing season.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:40 PM
(Reply to #59) #26
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56299
He's safe. Bill Martin will

He's safe. Bill Martin will allow his successor to make any personnel changes.

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October 31st, 2009 at 9:15 PM
(Reply to #22) #27
fatbastard
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Joined: 01/03/2009
MGoPoints: 792
As frustrated as I am

I don't think even 3 years is enough. I'm pissed. I'm upset. I saddened that there is some really really bad game management gonig on, which I attribute to the head coach. I also attribute playcalling to this head coach -- he seems to calling or supervising every call.

BUT, he changed systems completely. "His" players were not here, in terms of the type of player to play his offense. Talent was here, no doubt. But, I don't fault Rod for the transfers or early depatures. So, at least offensively, he was starting anew last year. This year he's working with two freshman quarterbacks (well, one really).

By year four, if we're not a 8-9 win team, he's gotta go.

If next year we play like we have this year in conference, there's gonna be a lot of reasonable people calling for his head. I hope he gets it turned around because I'm all in for Michigan, regardless of who's coaching.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:39 PM
#28
KBLOW
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Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 9759
Composure and wins will come

Composure and wins will come with age and experience. It will also come with the kids on the team having the same OC and DC for a few years a row.

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October 31st, 2009 at 9:36 PM
(Reply to #12) #29
clarkiefromcanada
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Joined: 11/21/2008
MGoPoints: 37504
good point

3 DCs and 3 systems in 3 years

potentially unhelpful in relation to winning.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:39 PM
#30
MGoDance
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Joined: 06/30/2009
MGoPoints: 376
Screw this....

He's absolutely the wrong answer for this team. This team has NO HEART. NO PASSION. They were not ready to play. I was disgusted with this team last year and I honestly think nothing has changed.

5-7.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:45 PM
(Reply to #13) #31
bacon
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Joined: 01/04/2009
MGoPoints: 18534
I also worry about the lack

I also worry about the lack of passion and heart that seems to come from many of the guys on the team. But there were some guys who are trying. Warren was trying to run that RB down on the last TD and Graham blocked a kick at a meaningless point in the game.

I also think the team was ready to play today, but they folded when there was adversity. It's like they expected to lose after the big play. I hope that they can get over that. Hopefully we can win another game this year and go to a bowl game. I kinda doubt it though after today.

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October 31st, 2009 at 9:08 PM
(Reply to #26) #32
fatbastard
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Joined: 01/03/2009
MGoPoints: 792
You make a good point:

"I also think the team was ready to play today, but they folded when there was adversity. It's like they expected to lose after the big play."

But, in my opinion, and in watching coaching staff I come to the conclusion that the problem stems directly from the staff, not the players. For one, this NEVER happened when Lloyd was coach, EVER. Second, I think the head coach can make extraordinarily poor game management decisions when he gets worked up. Playing Drob the last drive of Iowa is one. Whatever the hell playcalling happened on the goalline today is another. Not kicking a field goal to cut the lead to two touchdowns, on and on and on . . .

This is the most disturbing aspect of these losses. It's really unbelievable to me. I would never have imagined this happening to a Michigan team.

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October 31st, 2009 at 10:30 PM
(Reply to #83) #33
bacon
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Joined: 01/04/2009
MGoPoints: 18534
I agree on the FG. I think

I agree on the FG. I think that this game is on RR and the coaching staff in many ways. It sucks and I think that it's going to happen. This isn't the type of team that can overcome mistakes from coaches or players. And there are a lot of both.

After last year, I thought tackling and ball control would be the #1 and 2 emphases for the team. They did both at the beginning of the year, now both have gone to shit. That's got to be on both players and coaches. These basic things have to get fixed or we'll never get better. That's what I find disturbing.

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October 31st, 2009 at 10:58 PM
(Reply to #83) #34
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56299
For one, this NEVER happened

For one, this NEVER happened when Lloyd was coach, EVER.

So when we played Syracuse in '98, Tennessee in '01, Iowa in '02, Oregon '07, this didn't happen? I think someone's romanticizing the past a bit.

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November 1st, 2009 at 8:14 AM
(Reply to #95) #35
Thorin
Joined: 04/07/2009
MGoPoints: 15192
Those were all good teams.


Those were all good teams. Illinois is not good and this is this is the first time they beat us twice in a row since the 1950s.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:49 PM
(Reply to #13) #36
Michael
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1541
You sir, are a parody of

You sir, are a parody of yourself.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:41 PM
#37
Muttley
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Joined: 07/07/2009
MGoPoints: -74931
If someone w/ the success RR had gets sacked after two years

I think most potential coaches would take that into consideration when courted by Michigan.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:45 PM
(Reply to #16) #38
maizenbluedevil
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Joined: 09/12/2008
MGoPoints: 6885
Exactly.Not only that, but

Exactly.

Not only that, but we have *no one* on defense, and this year's recruiting class would be destroyed. I.e., no one in their right mind would take this job if RR got the boot after this season because coaches can only do so much and we don't have the players right now.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:49 PM
(Reply to #16) #39
mrjblock24
Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 51
Agreed. He needs AT LEAST a

Agreed. He needs AT LEAST a third year, and after that the new AD will have to seriously evaluate where the program is headed. I'm not one for predictions, but with 5 scholarship players in the secondary this defense won't be getting much better. What, are freshman going to come in and save the day? With the 5-6 3-star guys Rich Rod is getting it doesn't look good.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM
#40
enlightenedbum
enlightenedbum's picture
Joined: 06/06/2009
MGoPoints: 19822
I'm with you, but I had two

I'm with you, but I had two problems today:

1) Where was Minor on 1st and goal from 1. Carlos is fine in the middle of the field, but when there are a ton of bodies stuffed somewhere, he's just not the guy. Minor should be the starter, and if he's available to play at all he needs to be the short yardage back. Similarly, the QB sweep call hasn't worked all year and on that drive after Illinois scored when we needed to grab momentum back I hated that on 3rd and 3.

2) I honestly feel like outside of Graham they quit after the second or third Illinois TD in the second half. That long run just to punch us in the stomach was just the last example, but the fundamental stuff was awful. Couldn't block or tackle.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:44 PM
(Reply to #17) #41
MGoDance
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Joined: 06/30/2009
MGoPoints: 376
100% agree

This team is learning to QUIT awfully early these days....I dont think any amount of experience could overcome what ails this team. We'll be lucky to get to 6-6 NEXT YEAR.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:55 PM
(Reply to #17) #42
maizenbluedevil
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Joined: 09/12/2008
MGoPoints: 6885
Very good points... what you

Very good points... what you mention is indeed problematic.

Re. Minor, yeah, that probly would have been the better option. But, my point still stands that with 4 cracks at it from the 1 yard line, we absolutely should get in. That's totally on the players, IMO.

Re. motivation, that is a problem. It did seem like some of the team gave up.

And as for the fundamental stuff, that falls on the position coaches... Who of course are hired/fired by RR, so, at the end of the day he is responsible - although somewhat indirectly - for that.... since he himself (likely) doesn't coach fundamentals but does choose the people who do.

Those are legit criticisms. I'm not saying RR is totally without blame. But, a lot of people (not the poster I'm replying to, but a lot of people) are making a major leap from criticisms to calling for RR's head. And not only is that not warranted, but, per my point #3 above, would not improve the situation, but would only make things worse.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:09 PM
(Reply to #45) #43
enlightenedbum
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Joined: 06/06/2009
MGoPoints: 19822
Yeah

For sure we should still score with four cracks from the one. But give the kids the best chance to succeed, and unless Minor's leg is actually falling off, giving him four carries to power it in is the most likely way. Or give Tate a run pass option on the outside on either first or second. Pounding and Carlos Brown don't go together.

I want to give him at least one, probably two more recruiting classes to clean up the talent deficiencies, but we HAVE to beat Purdue next week for the extra practice time to hopefully start fixing some of the fundamentals problems. And obviously no Molk hurts as he's not just our best lineman, he's the leader of that unit too.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:17 PM
(Reply to #45) #44
Tha Stunna
Tha Stunna's picture
Joined: 10/13/2008
MGoPoints: 988
Totally on the players? You

Totally on the players? You just said Minor would be a better option. Also, "absolutely should" means "should"; it's not a guarantee, and it's up to RR to put his players in the best position to succeed.

I think RR needs a third year, but he can be the embattled Michigan coach from now until he proves his worth.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:43 PM
#45
tomhagan
tomhagan's picture
Joined: 08/30/2008
MGoPoints: 105
In 21 games under Rich

In 21 games under Rich Rod...this team has never resembled a well coached team. Not even close.

Add the NCAA possible sanctions, off field distractions etc.

well...what is there left to say...

Michigan Football as we knew it is DEAD. RIP.

Let's start over!

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:47 PM
(Reply to #20) #46
I Wrote a 4 Wor...
I Wrote a 4 Word Letter's picture
Joined: 08/25/2009
MGoPoints: 1836
Wow

From "WHAT SANCTIONS? ROSENBERG PUNCHES DOLPHINS!!!" to "Add the NCAA possible sanctions"

Most the shit surrounding RichRod was not and is not is fault.

Everybody needs to take a motherfucking step back.

Let's make a list of all the idiots saying "Fire Rod" now so that next year and beyond we can't tell them to shut the fuck up when they start pretending to be fans again.

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October 31st, 2009 at 9:43 PM
(Reply to #29) #47
clarkiefromcanada
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Joined: 11/21/2008
MGoPoints: 37504
thanks a lot

...make the list

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:48 PM
(Reply to #20) #48
Michael
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1541
So then why were those WVU

So then why were those WVU teams regarded as some of the best-coached teams in the country? It must have been all of those stellar recruits.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:51 PM
(Reply to #31) #49
mrjblock24
Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 51
The Big East. Pat White.

The Big East. Pat White. Steve Slaton.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:02 PM
(Reply to #39) #50
Michael
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1541
So PW and SS as freshmen, or

So you're saying that PW and SS were omglol amazing when they joined the WVU team as true freshman? No. They were obviously talented, but only gained notoriety once they were sophomores.

You do realize there is a fourth dimension, don't you? Players improve over time. PW and SS stepped onto a team which had a well-established system with experienced players surrounding them.

There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that what we are experiencing right now is any different than previous teams RR has coached. We are still a young team with an obvious lack of talent on defense; a situation which CANNOT be blamed on RR, who really only has 1 real recruiting class to his name. We have walk-ons starting at MLB and safety, over a converted fullback and a true freshman.

Does reason play no part in your existence?

NOTE: edited for clarity

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:24 PM
(Reply to #48) #51
mrjblock24
Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 51
Got it. We're young. But

Got it. We're young. But Pat White and Steve Slaton went 11-1 and beat Georgia in the sugar bowl their freshman year. Granted they had some established players around them. I think you might be right, but I think we'll find out for real next year. You can only be young for so long.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:58 PM
(Reply to #20) #52
willywill9
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Joined: 09/22/2008
MGoPoints: 12910
Are you serious or is this

Are you serious or is this /sarcasm?

Please, just enjoy the process, Michigan will improve. It's unsettling that Michigan hasn't played well over the last few games, but keep in mind they held tight but fell short against an undefeated Iowa on the road, despite turnovers. Michigan almost came back to beat Michigan State.

Our worst two performances thus far have been against Penn State and Illinois. Michigan looks horrible, I'll concede that; but, it's way too early to write off Rich Rodriguez.

Michigan isn't winning the big ten, they're not going to the rose bowl; this team is young, and will make a lot of mistakes. Be patient.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:21 PM
(Reply to #49) #53
BlueGoM
BlueGoM's picture
Joined: 08/25/2009
MGoPoints: 6062
But that's just it - it's

But that's just it - it's late in the year and they are playing worse.

It's not the fact that they lost, for me it's the way they are losing. They're getting whipped. OK, they played a very good PSU last week, fine. But they should not have played this poorly this week, not against a bad Illinois squad.

Purdue is a must-win, not just for this season, but for the program direction as a whole.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:45 PM
#54
jcgold
jcgold's picture
Joined: 07/27/2009
MGoPoints: 2985
The problems from last year

The problems from last year are still here: fumbles and poor tackling.

I can't chalk up this loss to gameplan: It's all on execution. But it's the position coaches' job to ensure those fundamentals are in place. At the end of the day, this loss is on the position coaches.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:47 PM
(Reply to #25) #55
MGoDance
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Joined: 06/30/2009
MGoPoints: 376
Trusted Staff????

But who's trusted staff is this? It all falls on the head coach. Recruiting, staff member performance....it all falls on Rich Rod. Hard to argue that.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:53 PM
(Reply to #25) #56
Fresh Meat
Fresh Meat's picture
Joined: 09/07/2009
MGoPoints: 1758
To be fair

The tackling has been bad for the last 5 or 6 years. It has been our biggest problem on D for a while.

Second, I am super disappointed. I just don't get how Michigan is at the point where they are starting two safeties who would not even see the field on any top 25 team. How did we get to that?

I also don't get some of Rich Rod's decisions. To try Carlos Brown for 3 straight from the 1 is almost inexcusable to me. Why not QB sneak, why not Minor, why not Grady? Why not kick a FG and only be down two scores? Because if you don't get it on 4th and 6, the game is OVER. That just isn't a wise choice. I know he was thinking his team needed momentum, but you literally are putting the whole game on ONE play with 9 minutes left.

I don't think we should fire RR, but this team has been a huge let down after the good start. I just don't get the complete lack of improvement in many phases. If we don't win 8 or 9 next year and beat OSU at least once in the next two years, then I'm off the band wagon for RR.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:28 PM
(Reply to #42) #57
Gus_possessivea...
Joined: 03/07/2009
MGoPoints: 245
You're right. Tackling has

You're right. Tackling has been bad for many years.

I also wonder how such incompetent secondary guys get on the field. The outside linebacker or pressing safeties who were supposed to SEAL Juice to the inside regularly failed to do so, e.g. Mouton (I think?) on Juice's TD run near the end of the 3rd quarter. That over-pursuit is a blown assignment in my book. There were many blown assignments. There were even more times when Greg Robinson failed to put his players in a situation to make a play. He is a loser. He loses football games. The only time he's won was with the Denver Broncos, when all he did was miraculously managed NOT to blow the game for a methodical and awesome offense. How the hell did Gerg get hired with his resume in the first place?? Please tell me. I HOPE we are looking at our 4th DC in 4 years next year. I can't offer a better alternative off the top of my head, but how much worse can you get than GERG??

Carlos had 2 tries and Grady did have 1 on the first-and-goal from the 1. But I generally agree. Brandon should have had all 3 (or 4, if need be).

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:33 PM
(Reply to #68) #58
gtanman15
Joined: 07/27/2009
MGoPoints: 0
No Grady did not carry the ball

That is all.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:41 PM
(Reply to #70) #59
Gus_possessivea...
Joined: 03/07/2009
MGoPoints: 245
You are correct.

That is all. (+1 for you)

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:47 PM
#60
Lumpers
Lumpers's picture
Joined: 10/28/2008
MGoPoints: 374
Flip over to the NW/PSU game.....

tell me honestly, who has better talent, NW or UofM? Seriously, tell me. They are playing the Nittany Lions toe to toe.....they are a well coached team and are playing with heart and definitely have a talent deficiency vs PSU....they are still competitive....Coach Rod is not even able to field a fucking competitive team on the field vs God awful Illinois.....we will be there FIRST FUCKING FBS VICTORY OF THE YEAR.

Apologize all you want, but he lost a considerable portion of the fan base today and there is no way to sugarcoat this fact. Its reality, deal with it.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:48 PM
#61
TATEisGREATyo
TATEisGREATyo's picture
Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 556
(No subject)

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:59 PM
(Reply to #30) #62
The Shredder
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Joined: 07/01/2009
MGoPoints: 4384
I do not support this paint.

I do not support this paint.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:22 PM
(Reply to #51) #63
BlockM
BlockM's picture
Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 28426
Brian should put in a rule

Brian should put in a rule that you're the only one who can post paints. I tried it one time as well, and it did not end as gloriously as all of yours do.

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October 31st, 2009 at 9:54 PM
(Reply to #30) #64
clarkiefromcanada
clarkiefromcanada's picture
Joined: 11/21/2008
MGoPoints: 37504
tUoOS...enjoy

Hello friends,

That is just ridiculous. I am sad I can't neg that x1000.

Dude, if your level of hate is so great to do artwork...move on like Boren.

I read post after post and I think character stays during adversity.

See you later; maybe it's time for you to go TateisGreatyo because you clearly lack it.

Best wishes everyone else and long suffering such as myself.

Raises his Upper Canada Dark to all of you.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:50 PM
#65
ChiliDog
Joined: 09/17/2009
MGoPoints: 1025
Very level headed.

I'm glad you can see through the red and look at reality. I could possibly give him another 2 years, with the idea of Devin Gardner coming in and a few other prospects. This(game)is a huge kick in the balls for the team and the fans. I really could give two shits about our rivals talking smack right now. I'm now trying to prepair myself for a tsunami of pissed off RR "I told you so", negitive nancy's. Here we go with the speculitive coaching prospect craze...

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:00 PM
(Reply to #34) #66
maizenbluedevil
maizenbluedevil's picture
Joined: 09/12/2008
MGoPoints: 6885
Agree that he needs to get 4

Agree that he needs to get 4 years.

The problems we're seeing are problems that have been in the making for several years. RR to a large degree is a victim of circumstance. These things take time to turn around and we're seeing progress after hitting rock bottom last year. This will take time but we'll get there. He who laughs last laughs best, and we (the RR supporters) will laugh last.

Still ALL IN!

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:49 PM
#67
MaizeZee
MaizeZee's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 0
I don't want RR fired.. I

I don't want RR fired.. I still like the guy he just needs to figure out what the hell happened to our team from the beginning of the season to now. We're playing like a different team altogether and it's getting pretty hard to watch. I really wasn't worried about losing to ILL today even after they took the lead back from us, but now I'm starting to wonder what other games we can win this year after this loss today. Definitely not looking good, but maybe things will come together for us (preferably right before OSU).

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:00 PM
(Reply to #40) #68
willywill9
willywill9's picture
Joined: 09/22/2008
MGoPoints: 12910
Just curious, what ever

Just curious, what ever happened to the fade?

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October 31st, 2009 at 8:30 PM
(Reply to #40) #69
BlueTimesTwo
BlueTimesTwo's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 3439
You mean the 3rd and 3 where

You mean the 3rd and 3 where the IL defense had 13 players on the field at the snap of the ball? I am really sick of the commentators talking about how every play is reviewed, but for the second week in a row our opponent's defense had too many men on the field at a critical time and it went uncalled. Is that not a reviewable play? If not, why the fuck not?

Our young team seems really vulnerable to momentum swings, and getting a first down by penalty there could have had a huge impact on the game. Instead of continuing a drive to try to get our offense back in rhythm, we ended up giving them the ball right back, after which they scored and we imploded. What good is replay if it is unable to identify the most obvious violation in the game?

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:53 PM
#70
Michael
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1541
For those who think RR should

For those who think RR should be gone, I implore you to present an alternative which meets both of these criteria:

1) The coach is CLEARLY superior;

2) It is a realistic possibility to have them as our coach.

Otherwise, nothing you say can be taken seriously.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:55 PM
(Reply to #41) #71
[email protected]
Joined: 10/17/2008
MGoPoints: 43
Brian Kelly

If RR biffs it next year too, you'd think we would have to consider it.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:20 PM
(Reply to #43) #72
Scott Dreisbach...
Scott Dreisbachs Broken Hand's picture
Joined: 10/03/2009
MGoPoints: 0
Ya, but my question is, will Kelly be available next year?

I think there is a good chance a good program makes a push for him this year.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:58 PM
(Reply to #41) #73
KBLOW
KBLOW's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 9759
3) The coach will bring all

3) The coach will bring all of his current Jr's and Sr's with him

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:16 PM
(Reply to #41) #74
Scott Dreisbach...
Scott Dreisbachs Broken Hand's picture
Joined: 10/03/2009
MGoPoints: 0
I'm not saying he should be fired...

But Brian Kelly comes to mind as someone who may fit your criteria. RR should absolutely get another year to show that he belongs here and deserves the job, but it's getting hard to keep defending him.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:55 PM
#75
BlueGoM
BlueGoM's picture
Joined: 08/25/2009
MGoPoints: 6062
No, I won't join the fire RR camp just yet

OK, fine, young team, no depth on D (and my my my, how that shows) and a second year with a freshman QB as a starter.

But the mistakes, the secondary that looks completely lost half the time, turnovers, etc., they have to stop. Otherwise, there's just no defending RichRod.

We have a shot at Purdue, hopefully, but Wiscy and OSU are going to crush this squad.

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October 31st, 2009 at 6:55 PM
#76
TATEisGREATyo
TATEisGREATyo's picture
Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 556
How the fuck is Gardner

How the fuck is Gardner supposed to make up for this joke of a defense we have had 2 years under RR. Explain that to me.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:01 PM
(Reply to #46) #77
KBLOW
KBLOW's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 9759
This joke of a defense was

This joke of a defense was mostly recruited under Carr. (or not recruited if you include the safeties that Carr should have brought in)

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:08 PM
(Reply to #54) #78
maizenbluedevil
maizenbluedevil's picture
Joined: 09/12/2008
MGoPoints: 6885
Exactly. NO coach would be

Exactly.

NO coach would be able to make something great out of our defense given the lack of viable players we have.

This post:

http://mgoblog.com/diaries/decimated-defense

is one of the best diaries in the history of MGoBlog.

It should be required reading for anyone that wants to diss RR. My guess is most people passed it over due to its length, but it's worth the read... People really need to understand the dire situation we have in regards to defensive personnel.

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October 31st, 2009 at 8:08 PM
(Reply to #56) #79
maizenbluedevil
maizenbluedevil's picture
Joined: 09/12/2008
MGoPoints: 6885
YESSS!!!!!!! I LOVE that I

YESSS!!!!!!!

I LOVE that I hit the 666 mark on Halloween!! :-D

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:03 PM
(Reply to #46) #80
BlueGoM
BlueGoM's picture
Joined: 08/25/2009
MGoPoints: 6062
Can he play safety?

Can he play safety?

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:11 PM
#81
b-diddy
b-diddy's picture
Joined: 08/29/2009
MGoPoints: 56
right now i see RR as a guy

right now i see RR as a guy who overly relies on one play, doesnt pay attention to details. the best thing about him was hope, but he has yet to justify any of that optimism.

he's not getting fired, even if he loses out. but i doubt the new AD will put up with a 3rd year of this. and right now, next year looks like more of the same is possible, losing graham, probably warren, and the likelihood that devin gardner plays as a true frosh.

there will be good candidates that would take over for RR. i have no doubt in that.

ps im rooting for rodriguez, i really hope he works this thing out. but right now, he's been more trouble than a positive. by far.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:53 PM
(Reply to #58) #82
Gus_possessivea...
Joined: 03/07/2009
MGoPoints: 245
"the best thing about him was

"the best thing about him was hope, but he has yet to justify any of that optimism."

Like our president!

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October 31st, 2009 at 8:35 PM
(Reply to #75) #83
ShockFX
ShockFX's picture
Joined: 07/16/2008
MGoPoints: 4069
I lol'ed.

I lol'ed.

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October 31st, 2009 at 8:39 PM
(Reply to #75) #84
Snowden
Snowden's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 85
BOOOOO

BOOOOO POLITICS BOOOOOOOO BEN KONOP BOOOOO.

BOO.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:15 PM
#85
BlueinLansing
BlueinLansing's picture
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 16425
Imagine

if the NCAA comes back with 'findings' and Michigan just finished the year 1-7 in its last 8 games looking terrible in every one of them.

...there may be no stopping that trainwreck.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:26 PM
#86
brad
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2802
Definitely not, its too early

However, at some point in the very near future, someone needs to emerge from within or join the team that will somehow compel them to become fundamentally sound.

I believe continuity at the head coach and coordinators will allow this to happen. But RR needs to find someone (position coaches?) to teach tackling, kick catching and non-fumbling. Can it all possibly be solved by just having experienced players on the field next year or the year after? I hope so, because coaching doesn't seem to be working.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:29 PM
#87
tomhagan
tomhagan's picture
Joined: 08/30/2008
MGoPoints: 105
Dont accept mediocrity. Dont

Dont accept mediocrity.

Dont accept below mediocrity.

2 years in a row with 25 pt. losses to Illinois.

Illi-freaking-noise.

Another Rich Rod Special Streak.

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:35 PM
(Reply to #69) #88
BlueinLansing
BlueinLansing's picture
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 16425
1957 and 1958

last time Illinois won back to back games vs Michigan

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October 31st, 2009 at 7:44 PM
#89
AMazinBlue
AMazinBlue's picture
Joined: 10/12/2008
MGoPoints: 4805
Firing head coaches usually extends bad times.

Things are tough and we're struggling at every phase of the game, including coaching, but starting over won't cure anything.

Maybe a change at LB coach might help and some super recruits, but those players are tought to get when you're losing.

We just have to wait out the youth and inexperience.

It's tough, but it will get better.

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October 31st, 2009 at 8:03 PM
(Reply to #74) #90
Gus_possessivea...
Joined: 03/07/2009
MGoPoints: 245
Agreed. Firing RR would be a

Agreed. Firing RR would be a terrible decision. My grandpa and his brother coached football and they always said that EVERY college coach deserved at least 3 years to prove themselves; and that hasty firings almost always backfire. I still think RR can lead us to the promised land. At the least, he can get us on the right track.

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October 31st, 2009 at 9:11 PM
(Reply to #76) #91
Ty Butterfield
Joined: 09/07/2009
MGoPoints: -84417
Agreed

At this point I don't know what to think. Losing this game was just bad. Awful. HOWEVA, I don't think firing RR after this season is the answer. It could start Michigan on a downward spiral that none of us would be able to even imagine. After 2006 when Michigan lost to OSU and USC in the last two games, one of my friends asked me if I thought UM should fire Carr. I said why? I mean who else are they going to bring in? It is not like UM is going to land Pete Carol or Urban Meyer. Who are we going to get that will be leaps and bounds better than Lloyd? I do support RR and want him to do well. It is just hard after a bad loss like this. I understand people starting to question the direction that this team is headed. So, if Michigan were to fire RR after this season, who would they bring in? Brian Kelly? Okay, maybe. But, who really knows if he would want to take the job. At this point, we are better off just hoping RR can hold on to the recruits for next year and pray he does better. Seriously, if you don't pray it might be time to start. I was supposed to go to a Halloween party tonight but I don't know if I can do it. I just want to go buy a fifth of Jack and drink the whole thing and not leave my house. That is all.

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October 31st, 2009 at 9:06 PM
#92
VAGenius
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Joined: 10/26/2009
MGoPoints: 204
Would never say we should fire him right now...

... but it's hard for me to think positively about next year, let alone the rest of this year.

I agree the team is young and the D is untalented, but the recruiting class coming in doesn't make us an older and it's unclear there's such new talent on Defense coming in to make a huge difference.

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October 31st, 2009 at 9:38 PM
#93
maizenbluedevil
maizenbluedevil's picture
Joined: 09/12/2008
MGoPoints: 6885
Another reason the criticisms

Another reason the criticisms of RR are unwarranted, and this in regards to play calling and the perception that RRs spread is not as innovative as hyped to be, or is a one trick pony:

We have 2 freshman QBs.

In addition to the obvious perils this brings, RR can't exactly open up the playbook completely w/ these guys because they're still learning.

I'm watching the USC-Oregon game right now. Oregon is looking great on offense, and Musberger mentioned that Oregon's coach learned a lot from RR in developing Oregon's offense. Oregon, in addition to the zone read stuff we run is also throwing some pitch option and other stuff in the mix. IIRC, RR did the same type of stuff at WVU.

Now, did RR suddenly have a bout of amnesia and forget major chunks of the offense he developed, and which many of the most successful teams in the nation run? HELL NO!!

The reason the current incarnation of RRs spread we're seeing at Michigan is so comparatively vanilla is because we have 2 frosh QBs. Let's not forget that.

Furthermore, I think there's a chance we would have seen more of the innovative spread-type stuff if we weren't running so much of the power-I type stuff that we're running - and which we're very successful with! There's only so much time they can spend practicing things, and so if it comes down to a choice between them running more advanced spread plays, or incorporating the power-I stuff, what they're doing now is the way to go because right now we have great tools to run it (Grady, Minor, Brown) which we won't have next year, *and* running that type of game minimizes the risks that would be involved with running the more advanced spread option stuff with freshmen QBs.

In fact, if RR hadn't run the power-I stuff, then people would criticize him for not utilizing his personnel (Grady, Minor, Brown) to the greatest effectiveness. And that would be a legitimate criticism, but, to his credit, he has in fact adapted.

By next year, the QBs will have a year under their belts and almost all of the skill players will be RR recruits, and we'll see more of the innovative spread-type stuff that brought RR to national prominence.

Right now, the QBs are basically running a combinations of 2 systems: spread, and traditional power-I running. This means, esp. given the inexperience, they're not going to get into real advanced stuff in either strategy, just basics. This is good because it maximizes our usage of the other talent at skill positions, and also actually minimizes the risk involved w/ having freshman QBs.... after all, given what we have seen over the past few weeks, do we really want Tate and Denard having a pitch option, for example, in addition to all the stuff they have to manage now? That's not a knock on either of them, it's just acknowledging the reality that they're freshmen.

So, before bashing the playcalling or saying the spread is a one-trick pony, or that RR is no longer an innovator, let's take that into account.

Next year we'll see the really cool spread-stuff, the innovation, and that - rather than now - will be the right time for it.

So, in conclusion, while many criticize the play calling, its really symptomatic of working w/ very basic packages due to having freshman QBs, which is better than the alternative, and is indicative of a good, higher-level strategic decision that was made by RR.

The man is a great coach. That's the consensus among many other great coaches, and what his track record says. I'm thrilled to have him, and this is all going to work out fine... A couple years from now, at some point we'll all reminisce and say, "Man, do you remember after tha Illinois game, when eveyone was calling for RR's head? How ridiculous was that!" and then breathe a huge sigh of relief that the knee-jerk rantings of a few fans without perspective didn't materialze into coaching personnel decisions.

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October 31st, 2009 at 9:44 PM
(Reply to #89) #94
Ty Butterfield
Joined: 09/07/2009
MGoPoints: -84417
yes

I agree with your e-pinion. Well thought out and much better then I would be able to do at this point. +1

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October 31st, 2009 at 10:03 PM
(Reply to #89) #95
fatbastard
fatbastard's picture
Joined: 01/03/2009
MGoPoints: 792
Good comment.

And I hope you're right. I do think he's very innovative.

But, some of the game time decisions. are, well, infuriating. I'm with you though, that in two or three years, we'll have an outstanding product on the field.

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November 1st, 2009 at 7:43 AM
(Reply to #89) #96
VAGenius
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Joined: 10/26/2009
MGoPoints: 204
Power I

+1 for the perspective

But it would be nice if the Power-I that's been so successful worked on the 1 yard line

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