Compare your average fan and what they do and how much free time they have to a medical/dental student. It is a lot more. I'm not saying all students have less free time than all non-students, matter of fact it doesn't matter. What does matter is that when a student has 6 exams in a 2 day span they are not going to be making it out to the South Carolina State game...How can you not understand that?
We Out: A student view of the new ticket policies
It isn't that I don't understand that; it's that we aren't talking about the same thing. I'm not talking about the average student versus the average fan. I'm talking about the average student versus what they will admit about themselves and their perception of how busy they thought they were as a student compared to how busy they are now. Yes, that average dental student is busier than the average fan, but that average dental student has more time now then he will when he is balancing a dental practice, a family, and trying to maintain a semblance of a "social life". That average dental student, 5 years removed from school will (and I do say "will", not "may") look back on how much time they had in school and laugh at how busy they thought they were. It really doesn't matter what school they are in, as it's not a comparison between individuals, but rather a statement about an individual.
Wait, let me get this straight. People are generally bad at assessing how busy they are (tending to overestimate). So our perceptions about how busy we are are unreliable. Therefore, we should rely on the perceptions of older-us about how busy they are ? What makes older-us better at assessing how busy they are? Perhaps hindsight makes us better evaluators, but only about things in the past! So of course you'd think you were busier in the present compared to the past.
"So of course you'd think you were busier in the present compared to the past."
That's not necessarily accurate, or even really relevant. For example, it isn't that someone is busier now than they have been at all points in the past, but rather that they thought (at the time) that they were unbearably busy in school only to find that significant periods after school (although not necessary all periods after school, which is what makes your statement inaccurate) were far busier. It's not really (or even, at all) about past v. present; it's about differentiating between different periods in the past.
I thought you meant that medical/dental/etc students should be at every game because they should "be good fans" , which is what pretty much everyone is saying in this thread. I didn't realize that you weren't trying to apply it to the athletic events, but said it more as a separate statement.
You actually think a medical student has less free time than a resident?
No. I'm including residencies in with medical school. It's obviously not m1-m4 year, but its still part of the formal training process.
Being the ever-busy professional that you are, I'm sure you understand that things come up (even for us lowly students). I'm not going to tell a group that we can't meet to do something because I have to go watch Coppin State in order to attend the games that I actually want to go to.
Of course they do; that's never going to change, and will only get worse. Here's the deal. I wasn't saying that I (or any other graduate/professional) is busier than you, or any other individual student. What I was saying is that most likely YOU will look back at YOURSELF and have the realization that you weren't nearly as busy as you thought you were and will wish that you would have done the things that you thought you were to busy to do. This was never intended as a "a you're just a student, and I'm a working professional, so I'm so much busier than you" thing. The fact is, a lot of students are almost certainly busier than me. That doesn't mean, though, that they won't be busier as professionals than they were as students. They almost certainly will be. Obviously, I could have articulated my point far better initially.
You explain yourself much better here. Initially it seems like you are attacking students by saying you are much busier(along with all other graduates) than the students are which means they should go to the games, which you really aren't saying at all. Your just comparing them to their future selves.
I had less time as a student than I do now that I am a graduate. I skipped a few Saturdays to work in lab, and now I have time to watch games every Saturday (if they're not blacked out, thanks ESPN). I think a lot of PhD grads share this sentiment.
sorry to let you know...
but when I opened the article I laughed and thought, " This guy doesn't know what 'Totalitarian' means." The second thought was, "Oh, to be in undergrad again."
This is my senior year at U of M and have attended nearly every game since I arrived on campus. My freshman year I was one of the few people in the whole arena (not just student section) at tipoff every game. The number of games I have missed through my first 3 years can easily be counted on one hand, and the games I missed were due to reasons that were more important than sports. I am in the bleachers early for every game, sat in the front 2 rows at the final four and national championship, and am a big time Michigan sports fan. The main problem I have with this is the athletic department needs to understand that sometimes it's not possible to attend every game. What if one of the most dedicated student fans gets really ill, or has some form of family emergency where they miss two games in one week and has to miss the Indiana game this year? Or get shitty seats to the state game? My point is some things in life are bigger than sports, and having to miss games in the past due to these things myself, I will feel terrible for myself and others if they have to miss out on Michigan sporting events because the athletic department screws us over.
To all of you bitching and complaining, and saying students can stop whining and need to just show up, need to tell that to the students who aren't the dedicated fans. The dedicated ones are there every night cheering on the maize and blue that we all have grown to love, and now we have the possibility of getting screwed out of tickets because other students don't care as much as we do. How would you feel as a michigan football season ticket holder who has attended nearly every game for 30 years if the athletic department gave your ticket to a game to somebody else because you couldn't show up the previous week? I bet not very well.
For most games there will be more than 1500 students not showing up. So just what exactly is so bad about giving Michigan State tickets to the most loyal fans??
If you want to attend 3 games a year, just buy tickets on stubhub. Don't take up a student ticket and then not attend 85% of the games.
There is a culture of being fashionably late to football games, especially amongst the greek crowd (I was often guilty of this when I was a student). If you want to create more memories then start tailgating 30 minutes earlier and show up on time. Or do what I did and continue tailgating after the games. Partying 14 hours every Saturday vs partying 14 hours and 30 minutes won't affect the quality of your "memories" with your friends. I promise you.
This weak schedule crap is total BS. Students don't show up in good numbers or on time for non-marquee B10 games either.
This attitude of being needed to be "courted" by the athletic department in order to be loyal fans or future donors is pathetic.
It's funny to me that you have a great deal of crotchety alums bitching about the students with regard to this change in policy, because if the AD started jerking around the alums' season tickets in the manner they're doing it to the students...
Oh. My. God.
The bitching and whining and outrage and complaining would be endless.
Every resident of the state of Michigan would be able to hear a low murmur.
The whining would be so relentless that the AD would immediately revert back to the old policies faster than you can grab a seat cushion.
I say all of this as an alum.
I seem to remember the alums being able to show up on time and put forth the necessary effort to make it a Michigan game, FERGODSAKES.
You have any numbers to back that up? I don't think 53.9% of alumni ticketholders failed to show up last year.
No way. If 53.9% of the entire arena had been empty, we'd have had 6,000 people present for an average game - over the entire season. You think that's all we had?
I have been to Crisler during games where if the students hadn't of shown up that place would've been empty.
He lost me at his jam of the week. When will the kids realize that Drake sucks?
Students are lucky enough to be students at one of the best public universities in the country. You are also lucky enough to get discounted tickets to sporting events that non-students would kill to get. I have absolutely no remorse for any students bitching about the new policies. When our student section is HALF as loud and rowdy as the likes of Ohio, LSU, Wisconsin, and PSU (amongst others of course), then maybe we can have a little bit more of an intimidating stadium. Until then, STFU, get the great education that Michigan will provide you with, accept your discounted tickets, come to the games on time, and quit whining.
It's like some people here would be perfectly happy if only there wasn't some pesky University interfering with their favorite semi-pro football team.
Except he's right. Our student section does not live up to the 18,000 people it seats. It should be louder. Just like the rest of the stadium. But at least the rest of the stadium isn't empty.
It's a pretty weak student section, but to be fair, the stadium atmosphere at the stadium is weak overall. We have the largest stadium in the country and it's not very loud. Don't give me the "it's too wide open" bull shit argument because that is a minimal factor in the crowd noise. The problem lies with the fans. Instead of yelling "down in front," people should be yelling "GO BLUE" and cheering for their team. Dave Brandon should take away the bleachers and make it a standing room only (I kid obviously...kind of).
No, I never said that. It's just when they start bitching about something so unimportant as a new ticket policy, that's when they annoy me. I'm a college graduate (Kent State) and could have gone to Michigan if I wanted to, but was uncomfortable dropping $30,000+ a year for that (out-of-state obviously). Many Michigan students are so spoiled and complain about stupid shit like this that it annoys me.
Please don't comment on the students unless you know what you're talking about. From your posts, it doesn't sound like you do.
Also, why did you feel the need to clarify that you graduated college? Especially the bit about "could have gone to Michigan?"
If you read the post I replied to, you can figure it out, but just in case you can't, I will explain. He made it sound like I don't get it or that I was never a student myself, at least that is what I got from it.
Looking at his comment, I don't read it that way at all.
You were uncomfortable dropping $30,000+ a year. Fair. However, maybe these same students who are doing exactly that have some strong opinions about something that affects their student life. I don't see how that makes them spoiled? I don't necessarily agree with the OP blogpost which I found to be too whiny; however, I am getting annoyed of the posts telling the students to stop being spoiled for being upset at a last minute change of policy to a product they already purchased under different pretenses.
Well, the AD has a right to amend policies. It's not like the students signed a contract with clauses that stated, "As long as I'm a student at Michigan, the ticket policy won't change." This analogy is a little over the top, but it's like the Constitution and its amendments. I'm sure there were people upset over some of the amendments, but guess what, they had to deal with them.
Students are "lucky enough" to be students at Michigan? I'm pretty sure every student that attends this great university works his/her tail off before and during their time on campus to earn that education they are "provided". And pays large sums of money to the university to do so.
And I'm sure the best way to make the student section "half as loud and rowdy" as other schools is to piss them all off and tell them to shut up and enjoy it.
Stop talking about "discounted" tickets!!! The students are paying $30,000 for the right to buy "discounted" tickets. It is college sports forgodsake! Your lack of "remorse" for a legitimate complaints to a bait and switch scheme pulled by the athletic department on the students is mystifying. Students are the good fans for basketball! Maybe you are letting your football attendance frustrations color your perception of the basketball issue?
So if 30k is for student discount on tix, the degree is free? Boy those kids in the ivy leagues and private schools sure are suckers.
Stop making this argument. It's beyond dumb
Wow. Your first post on a 300 message thread is to look me up and call me dumb. I must have really pissed you off the other day. You must be a very insignificant person.
But I will play -
So your argument is that being a student should not give you access to reduced tickets? Wow. I don't think many people would support you on that one.
But I am glad you advanced the thought process on this thread by pointing that out.
"So your argument is that being a student should not give you access to reduced tickets?"
I think being a student should give you the privilege of reduced tickets.
I have no problem with certain responsibilities being associated with that privilege.
If students don't wish to adhere to the responsibilities which accompany that privilege, they're welcome to purchase tickets on the open market which do not have attached responsibilities.
Businesses use loss leaders all the time to hook customers for the long haul.
Televisions ratings are skewed to more heavily account for young people because they're more valuable consumers to acquire.
And you're supporting bad buisness decisions/shady moral ones and being a jerk to other posters. Maybe you should get some perspective or just sit this one out.
This guy nailed it on the head. The tickets should be damn near free for students.
does not goes toward Michigan Athletic Department. Their budget is completely separate from the university money. You don't pay for the right for the discounted tickets. You paid to be the student at the University of Michigan.
If both budgets are linked, it's a different story. Since it's not, it's not a right because it's up to the Athletic Department to charge the prices of the tickets. They can charge you for the same price as the regular season tickets.
You want some frenchcries and a wamburger? You damn kids with your CD players, pagers, gameboys and fax machines are so freakin' spoiled. Just go to the game and quit obstructing my view with your mohawks, ski goggles and tech-vests.
So, as an alumn in his 40s, I came here ready to go all "in my day we showed up for games at noon" and "you may be the future, but stop acting like you are the now." I certainly think a lot of this pov is justified. The posts from many students and the linked article do suggest a sense of entitlement. its not enough to claim to be the future and make demands while you decide to stay in bed.
However, a number of points made by the author and student-supportive commenters do register. ND aside, the non-conference games listed in the aticle are pure crap. In my day (sorry) we played ND each year, plus got the likes of UCLA and Flordia State. Heck, Boston College used to be decent (top 30), and that was worst game on the schedule. This created at atmosphere where students got in the habit of going to the games on time, because the games were awesome. The best memories were to be made watching the game, not at the tailgate. I now get that this changes if the oppoent is sub-par week after week.
I am also struck by the fact that many of the compliants from the student side of things mirroed my own. The level of competition is already addressed. Also, I too sense that the AD sees me not as a loyal alumn, but a resource to be squeezed and then tossed aside as soon as someone else is willing to pay $1 more. The adversitiing grates. Worse, the stub-hub deal means that we end up with 1/3 of the section filled with OSU fans every two years. That sucks for the rest of us, but the AD is cool with it since he gets paid twice off of the same ticket (Yes, there is a way to stop this. SEC schools allow other fans to report you if opposing fans are in your seats. You get a warning or two and then loose your tickets.) The fact that the University runs this system that spoils the game experience for so many of us is telling.
The students do view the football experience differently that I did because it is different from what it was 20 years ago. This is really sad. Many of their concerns also mirror those of the broader fan base. Perhaps the students could make a bit more an effort during the conference schedule, and the rest of us should support them in their efforts to get through to the AD on the issues we have in common
The scheduling of crap games in the OP blogpost is a problem at many schools not just Michigan (did anyone see the stands 30 minutes to kickoff at Georgia, Ohio State, etc. this weekend?). I tend to think this is due to the BCS era of pts and scheduling. I am hoping at least that this playoff model may encourage a better SOS as opposed to the current model where 1 loss may take you out of the picture for good. Of course we're still years away with contracts made years in advance.
Showing up on time isn't just a student problem. Maybe the AD should implement the GA policy for all football tickets? Lets make 115,000 people arrive early and be handed a seat assignment based on where they are in line.
this article is the exact reason why i'm happy with general admission
I was a student from 2005-2009. I don't think I ever sat lower than like row 55, no idea why but I kind of got screwed my senior year. Still, when I was a senior, I went to that northwestern game and sat, soaked, until the end, and watched that 08 team lose from my mediocre seats. I would have killed to have watched a team as good as we have now, from anywhere in that stadium. And anyone who is complaining about dealing with the current status of the basketball team doesn't remember Tommy Amaker. Christ, you guys got to watch Trey Burke! You actually got to watch us beat OSU and MSU on a regular basis! If I could trade my sports experience with current students I would do it in a goddamn heartbeat.