Brian's word was gospel and he was a genius when he agreed with me, but now that he might be changing his mind, he's an emotional, reactionary boob like all the rest.
We are becoming Notre Dame
Wow. Listen man, stop blaming the fans or the people on this board. We've won four freaking Big Ten games in 3 years, 2 against Indiana, 1 against Minnesota, and 1 lucky ass win against Wisconsin. Ironically, half of our Big Ten win total in the past 3 years has come from the 2008 season. We don't expect more b/c we're "entitled." We expect more because, frankly speaking, that's a shitty record after three years.
Most of the (former) Rich Rod supporters were not even calling for his head until this weekend. I'm in that group. I didn't call for his head after Toledo '08 or Purdue '08 or Illinois '09. The first time I've ever said that I hope Rich Rod gets fired in almost 3 freaking years was after this weekend.
Most of us thought and realized the following: two years, we'd have to be patient and put up with a shitty record, that in year 3, we would have to put up with being a middling Big Ten team, and that hopefully in year 4, we'd be competing for the Big Ten championship. The reality (if Rich Rod stays) is: for two years, we dealt with a shitty record, in year 3, we'll (likely) deal with a shitty record, in years 4 and 5 we'll be a middling Big Ten team, and that in year 6, we'll have a new coach.
Trust me, it hurts to say that. I defended Rich Rod at all costs against a lot of my friends. I kept on telling them that they'd see, that once we get it going, they'll jump back on board. It sucks to realize that you were wrong for 2.5 years, and that's where the frustration is coming from. But we were wrong, this Rich Rod experiment just isn't working, and even though the defense is mainly to blame, that falls on Rich Rod. I'm sorry.
Were the Lion's fans who wanted Matt Millen fired as bad as ND fans? I just don't see anything wrong with holding the boss accountable for results.
And we aren't the Lions. I've said it before; analogies are a terrible way to argue more often than not.
So college coaches shouldn't be held accountable for their team's record? I guess I'm missing why college vs. pros matters. This isn't some academic issue, in fact the things that are important in college off the field, like not getting NCAA violations haven't gone that well either.
I'm missing how me comparing Michigan's success under RR to the Lions success under Millen, is any worse of an analogy than your comparing our fans to ND fans b/c we're upset with recent results.
Who says we're becoming like Notre Dame....?
I think the analogy to UW under Ty Willingham is a better one.
I was angry, yelling and generally looking for something to punch or shoot in the face. And that was very uncharacteristic for me.
Normally, I remain relatively calm during games, applauding big plays and cursing to myself when we give up points. Sometimes I let a "GD" or "fuck" slip.
But Saturday's loss hurt. I don't know why. I haven't figured it out. I want RR as our coach, but that game was the first time I really thought there's a chance this whole thing was not meant to be. And that made me sad.
I'm just trying to understand how MGoBlog just changed so fast after this game... it was like a "That's the final straw" moment. For what? This Defense isn't playing well... but, we knew this.
Is it sad that we're all just "hoping" for 1 more win to be bowl eligible? Yes. But I don't see that in the not-to-distant future for M football. Respect the process, be patient. At the season's end let's debate what needs to be done (outside of schemes, practice, personnel, coaching etc.)
I guess what frustrates me, is that I KNOW Rich Rodriguez is the right coach for Michigan. This offense is great, even in the Big 10. The defense will come together with time.
that predicted a 52-24 Michigan win. Along with a lot of the local MSM that picked Michigan to win on Saturday. It raised everyone's hopes to what turned out to be unrealistic levels and when the first half crushed any and all hope for the defense this year, well ...
If beating a bad PSU team is an unrealistic expectation, that really speaks volumes about the lack of progress we've made. Saturday's game was a tipping point because it forced a lot of us to give us the idea that this year was different, that we were ready to take a big step forward.
I think it was the last straw for a significant number of people. They understood the Iowa and MSU games to an extent, because they were better than us. I've never favored being so reactionary as to call for a coach's head mid-season and won't be now. I agree with you. I too think Rich Rod is the right coach for this team, despite the mistakes he's made with the defense.
But... that Penn State game was just gut wrenching. I haven't suffered like that from watching a Michigan game in a long time. Being at the Northwestern game last year in a half-empty Big House, soaking wet and frozen was awful, but I really thought that was going to be the low point of these growing pains. It wasn't.
I still have hope that we can make a bowl and win it, at least eke out a 7-6 record. But, I understand the pain and anger everyone is feeling. What I can't understand is the unwillingness to see this through to at least the end of the season.
What really saved Saturday for me was twofold: that the offense caught a spark and started scoring at will again and the way Rich Rod ignited a fire in the defense. Watching him rush into the huddle, push Gerg aside and raise them up was amazing. Unfortunately it didn't matter much in the end.
I just hope that the next guy doesn't make some of the same mistakes that RichRod did. Specifically, terrible assistant decisions. Rodriguez kicked Vance Bedford and Erik Campbell to the curb. Vance Bedford is one of the best assistants in the program's history and I would take over Tony Gibson any day. He was the DBs coach for Florida's smothering defense in '08 and '09, and now he is the DC for Louisville, Louisville, by the way, just shut out UConn and they allow about 130 ypg less than Michigan. Erik Campbell is busy coaching the best pair of wide receivers in Iowa history. Shafer is coaching a competent, at worst, defense at Syracuse. I would love to see another head coach retain all of the offensive staff (except maybe Dews, but I guess we could do worse) and just focus on defense for the offseason.
Also, we might have had fewer transfers if RR had kept aboard more of Lloyd's assistants. It's one thing to have a new HC, but when you also have new coordinators and position coaches, all of a sudden the program is completely different. I understand that RR was loyal to his WVU assistants, but in hindsight, this may have been a mistake.
we are glad DeBord is gone, people ignored that there were some great, highly respected coaches on the staff too. I can understand why a great pro-style QB coach might not fit in, but a lot of the other positions could be upgrades. People in the know think Bedford is/was a GREAT, not good, assistant coach. Ask Charles Woodson. And that's not to slight Soups who you mentioned or some others, who would probably be upgrades on some Rich's buddies, or even more, his outside hires. I wonder where the D would be with Bedford as DC now, coaching the secondary.
Hold on. What exactly have ND fans been wrong about?
They gave up on Davie who was in over is head and never had another coaching job. What was wrong about that?
ND fans gave up on Willingham because he was a worthless coach and recruiter, and then he proceeded to prove ND fans wrong by taking Washington in year 4 to its first 0-12 season in 100 something years of football.
And ND gave up on Weis because he crafted a potent offense but his defense looked clueless year after year. Sound familar?
Just because ND fans are often insane doesn't mean they are always wrong.
I am tired of hearing that as if it pertains to our downfall from the college football elite. All the schools at the top would like to refute that. Texas, Florida, USC(a team with dire problems that still seems to pull off ridiculous recruiting), Alabama, OSU aren't suffering a bit. If you win and you are coaching at these programs parity doesn't matter because the next level still puts you a head above the rest.
Notre Dame has been held down for years because of a lack of good decision making over and over again.
Hopefully Michigan makes some very very good choices in the coming months.
Texas is 4-4. USC is 5-3 just like we are. So is Florida.
Fact: Texas, USC and Florida have played in multiple national championship games since 2004.
The OP listed them as powerhouses that were "not suffering a bit." Half of the programs he listed are in as bad of shape as we are despite coaching continuity and an unimpeded string of top-5 recruiting classes.
Are we only supposed to compare ourselves to the namebrand programs that are having good years?
The guy's point was that it is misguided to use parity as an excuse for not being able to have sustained success. He pointed to Texas, USC and Florida as teams that have been able to sustain success despite alleged increased parity. His point is absolutely right, and while it's true that they are down in the 2010 season, the fact that those teams have gone to multiple BCS championship games in recent years proves that it's possible to have long term consistent success and that "parity" doesn't prevent that. Also, see Michigan from 2001-2007.
Sorry, didn't catch everything in the OP.
But yeah, we don't suck on defense because of parity. We suck on defense because we have basically zero experienced talent (same reason we sucked on offense in 2008). The freshmen/sophomore classes have remedied that (in my view) and things will only get better going forward.
I get small programs such as App St. aren't the same as before and teams cannot take anyone lightly anymore, but at the same time, these teams on the top of the food-chain aren't going to stop being elite just because the rest of college football is getting better. I think Michigan not winning is going to make us suffer more than anything if this doesn't change. Thats why I said that I hope the program makes very calculated smart decisions in the coming months because they are going to have ripple effects for years to come.
If we start winning parity isn't going to have anything to do with our return to being a powerful football program. I gotta believe this is going to change and in the end we will see positive results. Im practically begging for it. I had no intentions of going to AA this Saturday, I was just going to watch at home. But after the loss on Saturday and a good nights sleep I awoke on Sunday with this feeling like I need to be there for my football team. I just bought 2 tickets off ebay for $85.00 in sec 33 row 2. Please lets get over this hump..
That Texas and Florida bounce back better and faster than us next year?
(USC is more your wheelhouse...you can better say how destitute they are).
I definitely think we'll be better than Texas next year (we are already better than they are and have nowhere to go but up). I don't follow Florida closely but I doubt they go any better than 10-2 (and I think next year's U-M team will do that or better next year).
Feel free to create stakes as humorous as you wish and I am in betting that neither Texas or Florida will have a better regular season record than U-M next year.
The strange state of USC football has me far more perplexed than the situation in Ann Arbor so I have no idea what the hell is going to happen there.
Then I can see how you believe it. I don't need to bet then. I mean, I think 10-2 even with this defense a little improved is crazy. But if you're right, it certainly could be better than Florida or Texas. I may not agree, but I don't need to "bet" to challenge your sincere beliefs.
Though if I think of something REALLY funny to bet, it's on like Donkey Kong!
Put your thinking cap on and we can put on a show for everyone if I can make it back for OSU next year (possible) or Bama in 2012 (I'll definitely be at that one).
It's entitlement; the same thing that has kept Notre Dame down for years. We aren't going to win just because we are Michigan. Parity has come to college football and a large chunk of our fanbase remains unaware.
They were awesome, then crappy (Mike Shula comes to mind) and now awesome after hiring Saban.
There is a reason Francione left after winning 10 games. He knew what he was in for if he stayed. People also forget that we were operating at a severe scholarship deficit last year and are just now coming out of that hole, especially on the defensive side of the ball.
People screaming from both sides of the argument are making MGoBlog (as well as every other Michigan blog/message board) hard to read. I come here for info and solid discussion about Michigan football. Both sides need to calm down. How about we just wait until the end of the season for the Rich Rod and/or new coach talk? No one is going to be fired before the next 4 games. It's embarrassing as a Michigan fan to read all this garbage the past few weeks.
From what i remember reading at the start of the season, just about 90% of the threads or posts i read people predicted michigan at 7 wins..
We won't lose to purdue, and ILL is a toss up if we can execute on offense..
if we can execute on offense..
Yes. We need the offense to score on 100% of its possessions if we want a chance to win, so they better be executin'... Seriously though it's silly to think games hinge on our offense's ability to execute.
E pluribus unum
I was down for the game on Saturday. If Irish is still around these parts, he can give a better summary than me, but generally:
The O is pass only, BK never runs. Christ went down on the first drive and he had his freshman QB pass 50+ times. The kid did well, he'll be good, but there's no balance and no creativity in the run game. We're light years ahead. The D is just as bad but they have Te'o. Already discussed, but Kelly made one of the worst play calls I've ever seen to end the game.
The crowd energy was terrible. M stadium is 4 times as loud as ND. I know it's only Tulsa and they had the terrible tragedy, but that mostly ends when the game starts. It was close throughout, the fans should have been engaged and they weren't. It's an old stadium and it looks old. It is in desperate need of an upgrade (scoreboards are tiny and do not have video, the pressbox is a slightly larger version of our previous). I don't think the donors will be in the mood for an upgrade anytime soon.
It's much worse to be an ND fan right now.
They really don't like Brian Cook (or Kelly for that matter).
Did they crucify him? That would be in pretty poor taste at ND.
Are we becoming Notre Dame? I have no idea.
The most frustrating thing about this season for me is I have no idea how to judge this team or the coaching staff due to the ridiculous youth. Especially on the D. I want to hate Gerg and the job he's done. But the other side of me has to wonder what DC in the country could possibly field a passable D with this combo of ragtag youth.
ND has had the talent (according to Rivals) for years now and can't win. I think we're losing for different reasons than they have been. But on the other hand, Gerg may just suck and RR might have forgotten how to coach.
I'd hate to be Brandon right now.
Denard is elite....the rest of the offense is still questionable. The running backs are averaging 2.9 yards a carry and our receivers/tight ends drop a shit ton of passes. The offense has gone long stretches without scoring and that has been a trend in all 3 losses.
The offensive line has been lights out....they deserve a ton of credit.
I could have sworn the QB and the offensive line were part of the offense.
And the reason is because we will never tolerate mediocracy for a long period. Maybe RR is the gonna turn us around, maybe not. But at the end of the season when all is said and done, he will be evaluated for what he has accomplished. Furthermore, if his team has not reached an adequate level by the end of the season I have every confidence in our athletic department to do the right thing. We will not tolerate a Charlie Weis here! GO BLUE!!
you are the weird one. The outcry you here is not because anybody expects an irrational amount of immediate success, it is because the product on the field is not competitive, in this era of equality that you cite, we are not equal. There are deficiencies on our team unbecomming of a competitive team, much less a championship contending one.
Those 115,000 seats in the Big House don't fill themselves, neither do those new shiny luxury boxes. This is not a team that can be outclassed to that degree by an unranked opponent. If you were OK with Saturday and had fun watching that game, you don't understand Michigan football and what this team means to the University and the state. It is not life or death, your right, but it isn't "oh well I had fun either."
However you are becoming Nebraska, Alabama, USC, Oklahoma, Georgia, Texas, and all the other top tier programs going through a bad spell during a transition while replacing great coaching. Michigan wont become ND unless you washout on several coaches and teams over a few decades. I don't think that will happen.
Coaching is just as important as talent in CFB. All the programs I mentioned still had good talent coming in, just couldn't harness it. I am NOT bagging on RR, maybe he needs more time, maybe not, that's for Michigan fans and admin to decide. Every program is different. At Nebraska, supposedly Bill Callahan needed more time to recruit his players, yet after he left Bo Pellini won immediately, same with Lou Sabin at Alabama. There might be examples of programs that needed 4-5 years with the new coach before he made them great again.
Whether its RR or somebody after him, Michigan won't be bad forever. It'll just seem that way until it gets better. Words of wisdom from your new division rival. :)
I couldn't agree more with your line of thinking my fellow Michigan fan. You remind me that there are still plenty of rational Michigan fans out there so I very much appreciate this post. Too many people are bailing on the season and the coaches despite the enormous challenges we knew this team faced before the year even started.
I think what happens is that people see a few games that they weren't sure Michigan would win become victories and all of a sudden their expectations go through the roof. Add to that the fact that Michigan has been a top tier football program for years and the expectations get to highly unreasonable levels. Its sad because this is the time to embrace the team like no other. Believe it or not there is still great fun and excitement watching this team perform.
We are rebuilding and it's ok to admit that. I just pray that Dave Brandon has a level headed approach to this situation and sees that successful programs such as Notre Dame that hire and fire coaches at every turn just continue to drag on the rebuilding process. If Dave Brandon starts panicking like some of the people on these boards the past few days, Michigan football is in serious trouble.
Rich Rod has an incredible resume including taking West Virginia to heights never before reached by West Virginia football and yet we have fans talking about firing the guy before he even has a senior class of his own players. It's scary indeed to imagine that our fan base has so many irrational fans a la Notre Dame. It would be even more scary if the administration gives into these fans, alumni, or media and fires Rich Rodriguez (proven winner with BCS bowl victories and conference championships) in less time than Weis (no college experience) was fired at Chicken Little University.
We're not Notre Dame until we lose to Navy and Tulsa in the same season haha