We are becoming Notre Dame

Submitted by Captain Obvious on

MGoBoard-the last bastion of civilized thought in the sports message board world-finally hit a brick wall and has turned into every other sports message board.  Even Brian is calling for certain coaches' heads in the middle of the season, without regard to whether this would actually hurt or help the team.  Where did the patience go?  Where did the rationality go?  Where did the radical idea that coaches and teams should be judged on their body of work rather than a single game go?  When did we stop looking at extenuating circumstances like critical injuries and just start flailing around instead?  When did we start giving up on coaches and players before all the games have been played?

It's entitlement; the same thing that has kept Notre Dame down for years.  We aren't going to win just because we are Michigan.  Parity has come to college football and a large chunk of our fanbase remains unaware.  There's no quick fix.  If we go searching for one soon then our transformation into ND will be nearly complete, needing only another decade of constant rebuilding and unmet expectations to make it official.

I guess I'm the weird one.  I had fun watching the PSU game and didn't get upset when we lost.  I like cheering on the team and my weekend isn't affected by the outcome of the game.  I think there's more to measure a team and its coaches by than wins and losses.  If a college football game makes you genuinely sad and depressed then you probably should find another team or another hobby.  This team will probably make you mad or upset for a few more games this year and many years to come.

To those that have already mentally dismissed the coaches for this year - what if we improve?  Anything can happen in college football and there are still 4 games left to play.  Won't you feel a little silly if we manage to overperform and show signs of improvement?  How about we wait until all the games are played before we give up on the team and coaches?

I know there's at least a few people that think like I do left on the board.  We turned from a majority to a tiny minority overnight.  I wonder what it will take to satisfy this new majority of angry fans?

jmblue

November 1st, 2010 at 4:49 PM ^

No, Brian - or anyone else in the fanbase - is not the problem.  Losing is the problem.  Literally no fanbase in the country would be happy to go 4-16 in conference play over the past three years. 

As for Harbaugh, his trajectory at Stanford has somehow been considerably more upward than RR's at Michigan, despite 1) inheriting a 1-11 team and 2) having more stringent academic standards.  He's gone 4-8, 5-7, 8-5 and 7-1.  And he's done this after going 29-6 at his previous destination.  I have reservations about him as a person, but not as a coach.  He may well be the hottest coaching name in the country.

aawolve

November 1st, 2010 at 5:13 PM ^

I just don't think that it warrants the ugliness that many fans have displayed. The D's performance was very disappointing, but I still enjoyed watching the game, and  I was really excited and dishing out a variety of different high fives when we clawed back to make it a one score game. A lot of people seem to hate the process of watching a game, and only put themselves through it, because it might pay off with a win for their team. If we beat Illinois and Purdue, we still have a chance to have a very successful season. I'm not confident that will happen, I'm just happy to watch and willing to see what happens.

Johnnybee123

November 1st, 2010 at 5:07 PM ^

Wow.      Listen man, stop blaming the fans or the people on this board.  We've won four freaking Big Ten games in 3 years, 2 against Indiana, 1 against Minnesota, and 1 lucky ass win against Wisconsin.  Ironically, half of our Big Ten win total in the past 3 years has come from the 2008 season.  We don't expect more b/c we're "entitled."  We expect more because, frankly speaking, that's a shitty record after three years.

Most of the (former) Rich Rod supporters were not even calling for his head until this weekend.  I'm in that group.  I didn't call for his head after Toledo '08 or Purdue '08 or Illinois '09.  The first time I've ever said that I hope Rich Rod gets fired in almost 3 freaking years was after this weekend.

Most of us thought and realized the following: two years, we'd have to be patient and put up with a shitty record, that in year 3, we would have to put up with being a middling Big Ten team, and that hopefully in year 4, we'd be competing for the Big Ten championship.  The reality (if Rich Rod stays) is:  for two years, we dealt with a shitty record, in year 3, we'll (likely) deal with a shitty record, in years 4 and 5 we'll be a middling Big Ten team, and that in year 6, we'll have a new coach.

Trust me, it hurts to say that.  I defended Rich Rod at all costs against a lot of my friends.  I kept on telling them that they'd see, that once we get it going, they'll jump back on board.  It sucks to realize that you were wrong for 2.5 years, and that's where the frustration is coming from.  But we were wrong, this Rich Rod experiment just isn't working, and even though the defense is mainly to blame, that falls on Rich Rod.  I'm sorry.

Mitch Cumstein

November 1st, 2010 at 5:01 PM ^

So college coaches shouldn't be held accountable for their team's record?  I guess I'm missing why college vs. pros matters.  This isn't some academic issue, in fact the things that are important in college off the field, like not getting NCAA violations haven't gone that well either.

I'm missing how me comparing Michigan's success under RR to the Lions success under Millen, is any worse of an analogy than your comparing our fans to ND fans b/c we're upset with recent results.

Crime Reporter

November 1st, 2010 at 4:39 PM ^

I was angry, yelling and generally looking for something to punch or shoot in the face. And that was very uncharacteristic for me.

Normally, I remain relatively calm during games, applauding big plays and cursing to myself when we give up points. Sometimes I let a "GD" or "fuck" slip.

But Saturday's loss hurt. I don't know why. I haven't figured it out. I want RR as our coach, but that game was the first time I really thought there's a chance this whole thing was not meant to be. And that made me sad.

willywill9

November 1st, 2010 at 4:40 PM ^

I'm just trying to understand how MGoBlog just changed so fast after this game... it was like a "That's the final straw" moment.  For what?  This Defense isn't playing well... but, we knew this.

Is it sad that we're all just "hoping" for 1 more win to be bowl eligible? Yes.  But I don't see that in the not-to-distant future for M football.  Respect the process, be patient.  At the season's end let's debate what needs to be done (outside of schemes, practice, personnel, coaching etc.)

I guess what frustrates me, is that I KNOW Rich Rodriguez is the right coach for Michigan.  This offense is great, even in the Big 10.  The defense will come together with time.

jmblue

November 1st, 2010 at 5:52 PM ^

If beating a bad PSU team is an unrealistic expectation, that really speaks volumes about the lack of progress we've made.  Saturday's game was a tipping point because it forced a lot of us to give us the idea that this year was different, that we were ready to take a big step forward. 

Maximinus Thrax

November 1st, 2010 at 6:42 PM ^

Also, given that we could not stop McGloin, just what is it that makes us think we can stop Illinois or Purdue.  We might beat Purdue because their defense is weak, and their offense is weaker.  But Illinois has one of the better defenses in the conference, albeit a weak offense.  However, after making McGloin look like Kurt Warner I am pretty sure we can make Scheelhaase look like Juice Williams.  Don't even talk about Wisky and OSU.  The only absolute that I will deal in at this point is that if we don't get at least to 6-6 (at the minimum that most likely means a win over Purdue), then it is time to start over.

Syyk

November 1st, 2010 at 9:33 PM ^

I think it was the last straw for a significant number of people.  They understood the Iowa and MSU games to an extent, because they were better than us.  I've never favored being so reactionary as to call for a coach's head mid-season and won't be now.  I agree with you.  I too think Rich Rod is the right coach for this team, despite the mistakes he's made with the defense.

But... that Penn State game was just gut wrenching.  I haven't suffered like that from watching a Michigan game in a long time.  Being at the Northwestern game last year in a half-empty Big House, soaking wet and frozen was awful, but I really thought that was going to be the low point of these growing pains.  It wasn't.

I still have hope that we can make a bowl and win it, at least eke out a 7-6 record.  But, I understand the pain and anger everyone is feeling.  What I can't understand is the unwillingness to see this through to at least the end of the season.

What really saved Saturday for me was twofold: that the offense caught a spark and started scoring at will again and the way Rich Rod ignited a fire in the defense.  Watching him rush into the huddle, push Gerg aside and raise them up was amazing.  Unfortunately it didn't matter much in the end.

Hannibal.

November 1st, 2010 at 4:41 PM ^

I just hope that the next guy doesn't make some of the same mistakes that RichRod did.  Specifically, terrible assistant decisions.  Rodriguez kicked Vance Bedford and Erik Campbell to the curb.  Vance Bedford is one of the best assistants in the program's history and I would take over Tony Gibson any day.  He was the DBs coach for Florida's smothering defense in '08 and '09, and now he is the DC for Louisville,  Louisville, by the way, just shut out UConn and they allow about 130 ypg less than Michigan.  Erik Campbell is busy coaching the best pair of wide receivers in Iowa history.  Shafer is coaching a competent, at worst, defense at Syracuse.  I would love to see another head coach retain all of the offensive staff (except maybe Dews, but I guess we could do worse) and just focus on defense for the offseason. 

jmblue

November 1st, 2010 at 6:44 PM ^

Also, we might have had fewer transfers if RR had kept aboard more of Lloyd's assistants.  It's one thing to have a new HC, but when you also have new coordinators and position coaches, all of a sudden the program is completely different.  I understand that RR was loyal to his WVU assistants, but in hindsight, this may have been a mistake. 

M-Wolverine

November 1st, 2010 at 8:01 PM ^

we are glad DeBord is gone, people ignored that there were some great, highly respected coaches on the staff too. I can understand why a great pro-style QB coach might not fit in, but a lot of the other positions could be upgrades. People in the know think Bedford is/was a GREAT, not good, assistant coach. Ask Charles Woodson. And that's not to slight Soups who you mentioned or some others, who would probably be upgrades on some Rich's buddies, or even more, his outside hires. I wonder where the D would be with Bedford as DC now, coaching the secondary.

blue note

November 1st, 2010 at 4:42 PM ^

Hold on. What exactly have ND fans been wrong about?

They gave up on Davie who was in over is head and never had another coaching job. What was wrong about that?

ND fans gave up on Willingham because he was a worthless coach and recruiter, and then he proceeded to prove ND fans wrong by taking Washington in year 4 to its first 0-12 season in 100 something years of football.

And ND gave up on Weis because he crafted a potent offense but his defense looked clueless year after year. Sound familar?

Just because ND fans are often insane doesn't mean they are always wrong.

EZMIKEP

November 1st, 2010 at 4:44 PM ^

I am tired of hearing that as if it pertains to our downfall from the college football elite. All the schools at the top would like to refute that. Texas, Florida, USC(a team with dire problems that still seems to pull off ridiculous recruiting), Alabama, OSU aren't suffering a bit. If you win and you are coaching at these programs parity doesn't matter because the next level still puts you a head above the rest. 

 

Notre Dame has been held down for years because of a lack of good decision making over and over again. 

Hopefully Michigan makes some very very good choices in the coming months. 

PurpleStuff

November 1st, 2010 at 4:57 PM ^

The OP listed them as powerhouses that were "not suffering a bit."  Half of the programs he listed are in as bad of shape as we are despite coaching continuity and an unimpeded string of top-5 recruiting classes.

Are we only supposed to compare ourselves to the namebrand programs that are having good years?

Johnnybee123

November 1st, 2010 at 5:04 PM ^

The guy's point was that it is misguided to use parity as an excuse for not being able to have sustained success.  He pointed to Texas, USC and Florida as teams that have been able to sustain success despite alleged increased parity.  His point is absolutely right, and while it's true that they are down in the 2010 season, the fact that those teams have gone to multiple BCS championship games in recent years proves that it's possible to have long term consistent success and that "parity" doesn't prevent that.  Also, see Michigan from 2001-2007. 

PurpleStuff

November 1st, 2010 at 5:24 PM ^

Sorry, didn't catch everything in the OP.

But yeah, we don't suck on defense because of parity.  We suck on defense because we have basically zero experienced talent (same reason we sucked on offense in 2008).  The freshmen/sophomore classes have remedied that (in my view) and things will only get better going forward. 

EZMIKEP

November 1st, 2010 at 5:45 PM ^

I get small programs such as App St. aren't the same as before and teams cannot take anyone lightly anymore, but at the same time, these teams on the top of the food-chain aren't going to stop being elite just because the rest of college football is getting better. I think Michigan not winning is going to make us suffer more than anything if this doesn't change. Thats why I said that I hope the program makes very calculated smart decisions in the coming months because they are going to have ripple effects for years to come. 

If we start winning parity isn't going to have anything to do with our return to being a powerful football program. I gotta believe this is going to change and in the end we will see positive results. Im practically begging for it. I had no intentions of going to AA this Saturday, I was just going to watch at home. But after the loss on Saturday and a good nights sleep I awoke on Sunday with this feeling like I need to be there for my football team. I just bought 2 tickets off ebay for $85.00 in sec 33 row 2. Please lets get over this hump..

M-Wolverine

November 1st, 2010 at 8:05 PM ^

That Texas and Florida bounce back better and faster than us next year?
<br>
<br>(USC is more your wheelhouse...you can better say how destitute they are).

PurpleStuff

November 1st, 2010 at 9:53 PM ^

I definitely think we'll be better than Texas next year (we are already better than they are and have nowhere to go but up).  I don't follow Florida closely but I doubt they go any better than 10-2 (and I think next year's U-M team will do that or better next year).

Feel free to create stakes as humorous as you wish and I am in betting that neither Texas or Florida will have a better regular season record than U-M next year.

The strange state of USC football has me far more perplexed than the situation in Ann Arbor so I have no idea what the hell is going to happen there.

M-Wolverine

November 2nd, 2010 at 3:23 PM ^

Then I can see how you believe it.  I don't need to bet then. I mean, I think 10-2 even with this defense a little improved is crazy.   But if you're right, it certainly could be better than Florida or Texas.  I may not agree, but I don't need to "bet" to challenge your sincere beliefs.

Though if I think of something REALLY funny to bet, it's on like Donkey Kong!

jblaze

November 1st, 2010 at 4:49 PM ^

It's entitlement; the same thing that has kept Notre Dame down for years.  We aren't going to win just because we are Michigan.  Parity has come to college football and a large chunk of our fanbase remains unaware.

They were awesome, then crappy (Mike Shula comes to mind) and now awesome after hiring Saban.

PurpleStuff

November 1st, 2010 at 4:55 PM ^

There is a reason Francione left after winning 10 games.  He knew what he was in for if he stayed.  People also forget that we were operating at a severe scholarship deficit last year and are just now coming out of that hole, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

WilliSC48

November 1st, 2010 at 5:08 PM ^

People screaming from both sides of the argument are making MGoBlog (as well as every other Michigan blog/message board) hard to read. I come here for info and solid discussion about Michigan football. Both sides need to calm down. How about we just wait until the end of the season for the Rich Rod and/or new coach talk? No one is going to be fired before the next 4 games. It's embarrassing as a Michigan fan to read all this garbage the past few weeks. 

switch26

November 1st, 2010 at 5:34 PM ^

From what i remember reading at the start of the season, just about 90% of the threads or posts i read people predicted michigan at 7 wins..

We won't lose to purdue, and ILL is a toss up if we can execute on offense..

Bodogblog

November 1st, 2010 at 5:51 PM ^

I was down for the game on Saturday.  If Irish is still around these parts, he can give a better summary than me, but generally:

The O is pass only, BK never runs.  Christ went down on the first drive and he had his freshman QB pass 50+ times.  The kid did well, he'll be good, but there's no balance and no creativity in the run game.  We're light years ahead.  The D is just as bad but they have Te'o.  Already discussed, but Kelly made one of the worst play calls I've ever seen to end the game. 

The crowd energy was terrible.  M stadium is 4 times as loud as ND.  I know it's only Tulsa and they had the terrible tragedy, but that mostly ends when the game starts.  It was close throughout, the fans should have been engaged and they weren't.  It's an old stadium and it looks old.  It is in desperate need of an upgrade (scoreboards are tiny and do not have video, the pressbox is a slightly larger version of our previous).  I don't think the donors will be in the mood for an upgrade anytime soon.

It's much worse to be an ND fan right now. 

2014

November 1st, 2010 at 6:01 PM ^

Are we becoming Notre Dame? I have no idea.

The most frustrating thing about this season for me is I have no idea how to judge this team or the coaching staff due to the ridiculous youth. Especially on the D. I want to hate Gerg and the job he's done. But the other side of me has to wonder what DC in the country could possibly field a passable D with this combo of ragtag youth.

ND has had the talent (according to Rivals) for years now and can't win. I think we're losing for different reasons than they have been. But on the other hand, Gerg may just suck and RR might have forgotten how to coach.

I'd hate to be Brandon right now.

gnarles woodson

November 1st, 2010 at 8:02 PM ^

Denard is elite....the rest of the offense is still questionable.  The running backs are averaging 2.9 yards a carry and our receivers/tight ends drop a shit ton of passes.  The offense has gone long stretches without scoring and that has been a trend in all 3 losses.  

The offensive line has been lights out....they deserve a ton of credit.

diehardalum

November 1st, 2010 at 8:08 PM ^

And the reason is because we will never tolerate mediocracy for a long period.  Maybe RR is the gonna turn us around, maybe not.  But at the end of the season when all is said and done, he will be evaluated for what he has accomplished.  Furthermore, if his team has not reached an adequate level by the end of the season I have every confidence in our athletic department to do the right thing.  We will not tolerate a Charlie Weis here!   GO BLUE!!

ijohnb

November 1st, 2010 at 8:15 PM ^

you are the weird one.  The outcry you here is not because anybody expects an irrational amount of immediate success, it is because the product on the field is not competitive, in this era of equality that you cite, we are not equal.  There are deficiencies on our team unbecomming of a competitive team, much less a championship contending one.

Those 115,000 seats in the Big House don't fill themselves, neither do those new shiny luxury boxes.  This is not a team that can be outclassed to that degree by an unranked opponent.  If you were OK with Saturday and had fun watching that game, you don't understand Michigan football and what this team means to the University and the state.  It is not life or death, your right, but it isn't "oh well I had fun either."

Ben from SF

November 1st, 2010 at 9:01 PM ^

We will have to fire three different coaches and replace them with candidates who perform worse than their predecessors to be comparable to ND.