Way too Early Preview: 2014 OL
I really couldn't decide if I should name this thread "way too early preview" or "what everyone will be bitching about next fall," but as you can tell, I went with the former.
It is evident, as pointed out in the offense optimism thread, that we have the great skill at the skill position. We have a 5th year Senior at Quarterback (and a backup who won't scare the bejesus out of us), with a year and a half of starting experience. 2 really young, high potential RBs, and some legit WRs who, for the first time since Manningham, have the ability to dust off the old #1. And the TE's. Oh my those TE's.
But, as we saw this year, one position group can derail the entire offense. That is why the OL will have the biggest impact on the 2014 football season, probably Hoke & Co.'s job security, and most importantly, our SANITY! So let's get to what we have. (I am leaving off all incoming Freshman because "is OL, will RS")
Tackles
Eric Magnuson (6 starts @ Guard, 11 app)
Ben Braden (RS So.)
Chris Fox (RS Fr.) (Raw)
L. Tuley-Tillman (RS Fr.) (Raw)
Guards
Chris Bryant (2 starts @ LG, 3 app)
Kyle Kalis (7 starts @ RG, 11 app, All-Fr. B1G)
Kyle Bosch (3 starts @ LG, 5 app)
Blake Bars (RS So.)(Raw?)
David Dawson (RS Fr.)(Raw)
Dan Samuelson (RS Fr.)(Raw)
Center
Graham Glasgow (12 starts @ G/C, 17 app)(Kovacs-don't-refer-to-him-as-a-walk-on award winner)
Joey Burzynski (1 start, 16 app)(was walk-on)
Jack Miller (4 starts, 10 app)[small :( ]
Patrick Kugler (RS Fr.)
One thing to be sure of, there are a heck of a lot of bodies to sacrifice to the meat god. So that is good. The bad, these guys are YOUNG. Again. 35 starts between 7 guys. And remember, we can only start 5 of them!
Anyways. To the discussion!
But first. Cat picture:
Okay really, discussion time. Kugler or Bryant NEED to step up and start. Period. If both do, then even better. And I don't mean "start because they have to start" I mean, take that job in the spring and never let it go guys. Here is my line.
LT - Magnuson
LG - G. Glasgow
C - Kugler
RG - Kalis
RT - Braden
If it is Bryant instead of Kugler, Glasgow back to C, Bryant at LG.
Dream Scenario:
LT - Mags
LG - Bryant
C - Kugler
RG - Cat Sweater
RT - Kalis
What do you want/dream/think the OL will be next year? And are we screwed? I say I hope not...
January 3rd, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^
Do you think the shuffling of the lineup contributed to that at all? Just curious. If I want to be optimistic, I say yes, if I don't I say the coaches did not put our offensive line in a position to succeed given their youth.
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:30 AM ^
So much inexperience and question marks. Once again another season of it may work, it may not.
Couldn't Dawson also compete for one of the Tackle spots?
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:42 AM ^
maybe Samuelson gets kicked to tackle. recruiting reports said possible tackle
January 3rd, 2014 at 3:24 PM ^
really hoping dawson has the balance and hands to potentially compete at OT bc theyre very very light at OT right now. the guys they do have penciled in as maybes obviously have zero experience at OT at this level and the younger guys like fox and tuley-tilman both will likely struggle next year (fox coming off injury and tuley-tilman project type along lines of bushell-beatty) although wed all be thrilled if 1 or both magically transform their bodies and refine tenchnique before fall. bottom line with inexperience across the board, it tough when guys like bryant and miller and kalis offer very little versatility. magnuson and braden obviously very far from sure things next year so it would be outstanding if guys like dawson or glasgow or samuelson could potentially prove versatile enough to log some reps at OT. the prototypical body type guys they recruited at OT like magnuson and braden and bushell-beaty and fox and tulley-tillman are obviously question marks, several of whom need to transform their bodies big time before thinking about playing. dude like dawson or samuelson may not be 6'6" - 6'7" but theyre also not 6'2" with stubby little arms....hopefully someone emerges with feet and solid hands to compete at OT position along with names mentioned by OP
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^
There is 0% chance of that. Your assessment isn't even optimistic with that idea; just impossible. He doesn't have that type of skill set.
The two deep (IMO) is
LT - Mags, LTT
LG - Bosh, Bryant
C - Glasgow, Kugler/Miller
RG - Kalis, Bosh
RT - Braden, Fox
Better O-line than this year but not Stanford or Bama good but I'm hoping around 50th best in nation.
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:45 AM ^
They had him split in the recruiting rankings. Which is why I suggest it. IMO his road grating style would be perfect as a tackle for running plays. Pass pro is probably iffy. The thing is, if Braden can't cut it, one of the inside guys is his only competition. So anyone is going to be out of position if one of the guards is going to move outside. I out just feel most comfortable with Kalis there.
rated as a five-star recruit, the No. 1 prospect from Ohio and the No. 4-ranked offensive tackle in the nation by Rivals.com ... rated a five-star recruit and the No. 6 offensive tackle in the country by Scout.com ... rated as a four-star recruit, No. 132 nationally, No. 10 offensive guard and the No. 4 prospect from Ohio by ESPN.com.
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:46 AM ^
Sad isn't it? To hope for a 50th best o-line in the country considering how good, how highly touted and highly rated those 10+ players were coming out of high school.
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^
While I can't imagine a worse line than 2013, this is really depressing because it can totally stall our offense in a heartbeat. I'd really like not to ever have to see more than one guy in his first or second year in the program starting on the line, but at the same time all the talent are gonna be 2nd and 3rd year kids. I wonder if Bosch or Dawson is capable of playing RT if Braden can't? I think most of us see Mags, Bosch, Kalis, and Glasgow as starters, but just not sure at what positions. The big question is who plays RT and how that affects the guards. I'd rather have a second year guy playing RT than guard based off what happened this year. So, I'd rather see a kid like Dawson play RT if that allows Glasgow, Kalis, and Bosch stay in the middle and continue to gain chemistry. Ultimately I just hope we can get enough of a running game going to have balance and actually be able to run the ball against average B1G teams.
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:38 AM ^
Is it possible that having two senior tackles and such a young middle group just could not mesh? On paper, the OL is supposed to get worse with those losses, but I remember the mid 1990s OL fluctuating between being really good and not so good for no real obvious reason; e.g., a red shirt DL was moved to OL and we ended up having one of the top OLs in the country. Of course, not everyone is Steve Hutchinson.
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:44 AM ^
I'm just glad there's options. Yeah for depth even if it is very young!
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:51 AM ^
I'm a little optimistic I guess. I actually think the pass protection was improved at the end of the year. I also think alot of the lineman have a way to go in the strength and conditioning program. After watching Alabama/Oklahoma (probably the grass is greener syndrome), but some of Alabama's offensive lineman look like they could eat ours.
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:51 AM ^
I wish my maize and blue glasses could help me see otherwise, but I cannot squint hard enough to find a functional O-line next year.
Chemistry, competition, and hunger are all fluff words. It doesn't make you able to run block better. The O-line has been terrible for two years, no reason to suggest it will magically change this summer.
January 3rd, 2014 at 11:00 AM ^
...it is. That line is going to be so young that it's hard to imagine it doing very well. It's not good that our best-case scenario involves three first-time starters.
January 3rd, 2014 at 1:40 PM ^
Meanwhile, due to injuries, UCLA is forced to start three pure freshmen OL on their way to a 10-3 season and beatdowns of USC, NEB, and Va Tech. Not to mention redshirt freshman Alex Kozan starting on Auburn's OL.
Nonetheless, it's hard to imagine young OL doing anything very well.
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:52 AM ^
One thing I've been thinking about is what we consider "young." There are a few possibilities:
1) 18-19 years old. I think everyone would say this is young.
2) Less than a full season's worth of starts. This one is debatable.
3) Less than 3 years in the program.
In 2014, our offensive line should hopefully feature no starters who are 1) 18-19 years old; or 2) on campus less than 2-3 years. To me, that makes this offensive line not that "young" anymore, even without the game experience. They've had time to build strength, learn technique, and endure a full season's schedule.
Even without Lewan and Schoefield, I think we could be looking at addition by subtraction. They were certainly NFL-caliber players, but they were not very good leaders for the young guys to follow. Perhaps now all FIVE of the O-Linemen will realize they have to step up, especially since competition for playing time will be so wide open.
January 3rd, 2014 at 11:06 AM ^
According to Brian's 2014 Offense Preview, the OL is Mags-Bosch-Glasgow-Kalis-Braden.
I am going with "young" meaning (for OL) No Seniors, 1 RS Junior, 3 RS Soph & a Soph., with 28 starts between them all, and basically no carry over chemistry.
Compared to last year when the consensus was that our line was young even though we had two 5th yr seniors as the book ends. (2 RS Sr., 2 RS So. & a RS Fr. started the yr.)
January 3rd, 2014 at 12:06 PM ^
that since Hoke took over the program our running game has been primarily DR running the ball. We have not had a running back gaining substantial yardage behind a blocking line.
Regarding 2014 OL it will depend on whether the same coaching staff is in place. No coaching changes will occur until after signing day in February.
If everything remains the same, there should be improvement but it will not be significant. A year older with experience will count for something. But if the past is any indicator, the OL could remain stagnant.
If there is a coaching change i.e. offensive line coach or OC there could be dramatic improvement in the line play. Infusion of new a coach/coaches often changes attitudes and confidence.
January 3rd, 2014 at 4:50 PM ^
Didn't Fitz rush for over 1000 yds in Hoke's first year?
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:53 AM ^
My guess is starters will be
Magnuson, Kalis, Glasgow, Bosch, Braden
....which is, surprisingly, actually not that terrifying. All have starts except Braden. Magnuson has to slide to a new position, but it's the one he's supposedly more naturally suited to so there's room for optimism. Braden is a huge question mark... I thought he looked damn good in spring and fall camps, I wonder if we'll ever get the story on that other than "he's not a guard." (Even though he looked fine as a guard and it's not like we had that many quality options).
I don't like putting another RS FR in at center, especially now that Glasgow seems to have cleaned up his snapping issues a bit. Kugler getting on the field gives you some flexibility with the guards, but center is just way too complex of a position to risk pulling a guy who seemed to be doing ok for a shot that someone new who might be better at this point.
Whatever they do, I hope they decide at the end of spring camp and roll with it so they can get some chemistry established.
January 3rd, 2014 at 12:11 PM ^
January 3rd, 2014 at 10:57 AM ^
I think David Dawson needs to step up and grab the LG spot. In the alternatiove Glasgow moves to LG and Kugler takes over at Ceneter. Not sure how the RT spot plays out. Is it a stretch to see Kalis at that spot?
January 3rd, 2014 at 11:18 AM ^
I recall he was one of the most highly-touted OL recruits in his class, then injured his knee his senior season in HS and needed surgery. Then I read he was carrying extra weight and out of shape after the surgery. Is he fully recovered? Back in shape? How is he doing? He certainly seemed like a first-rate tackle prospect before the injury.
January 3rd, 2014 at 11:20 AM ^
January 3rd, 2014 at 11:31 AM ^
I honestly think the line will be better next year. A lot of these young guys came in together and will be trying to kill each other to win that starting spot, whichever it is. Yes, there will be mistakes, but that's only natural with guys who have less than optimal experience. I think a lot of us will be blown away by the announced weight gains next fall as well. Kugler was 287 this year. You gotta figure he's coming in at around 300+ next year. Dawson was 297. He should be sitting at 305+. Glasgow is a walk on and already has himself up to 303. He should be pushing 310+. Bosch as a true freshman was listed at a solid 302. He could be pushing 315+ next year. The list goes on for the young guys. They now have a ton of time to increase weight and strength before next year. With most of our guys being young, this could lead to some explosive strength and skill increases. Even the guys who didn't play much or at all this year got to see what it takes to move Big 10 defensive lineman around. The future is bright.
January 3rd, 2014 at 11:32 AM ^
Wasn't AJ Williams thought to potentially be an OT? Could he slide in and compete for a spot there?
January 3rd, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
He hasn't blocked well as a TE and you want to make him an OT?
January 3rd, 2014 at 12:04 PM ^
Williams seems like he is what he is...a 2nd or 3rd TE that can block and catch short passes.
Which is okay, you need that. But I don't expect him to be ahead of Butt or Bunting as a pure TE.
Which again, I like, those are your two pure TEs, you bring Williams in for a 7th or 8th blocker who's pass eligible.
Hill and Shallman are your H-Backs will share/steal time from Williams and Bunting.
January 3rd, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^
Isn't it possible that he is not comfortable as a TE and might perform better as an OT. And I didn't say annoint him as the starter, I only asked if he could compete for a spot there to backup Braden. All the other backups seem like a reach too.
January 3rd, 2014 at 6:16 PM ^
But I still would say "no." He's just not that good of a blocker.
I mean Kalis, Magnuson, Braden, Schofield, and Lewan all took snaps this year as a "TE"...the blocking can't be THAT much different then blocking at OT.
I think your best bet is that he's still young and he's going to get better and hopefully he'll be an elite blocking TE.
January 3rd, 2014 at 12:51 PM ^
The S&C staff has had him losing weight to play TE. Given his current size and lack of reps, it's hard to see him as a viable option at OT in 2014. I think it would be much easier for one of the guards to slide over, if need be.
January 3rd, 2014 at 4:20 PM ^
No. He's a tight end.
January 3rd, 2014 at 11:52 AM ^
January 3rd, 2014 at 1:12 PM ^
January 3rd, 2014 at 4:57 PM ^
By the time the first bye week came along, just about everyone was clamoring for a shake up on the oline. One of the new starters due to this shake up was Bryant, who unfortunately got hurt and thus needed to be replaced. Kalis also got hurt during the year and was pulled.
It's easy to look back in hindsight and say something the coaches did didn't work/they shouldn't have done that. But with how poorly the line was performing early in the year, if you have 2 guys competing at a very close level in practice and one isn't getting it done in games, I think you gotta give the second guy a shot in the game.
January 3rd, 2014 at 7:45 PM ^
I'm on record as saying it's easy to look back and say M should've stuck with the first 5 but despite everyone (including myself) clamoring for change, seemingly for the sake of it, the coaches should've known that OL is the ultimate continuity position and thus making changes would've set everyone back, especially considering they ditched the stretch after a few games.
January 3rd, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
I just want them to be good.
I'm sick of a pile of less than medicore. It's time to dominate on the OL like we have in years past. It's time to have multiple 1st and 2nd round draft picks on the OL. It's time to have an OL where 4, if not all 5 guys are drafted.
I don't care if that's Hayes-Norfleet-Wile-Godin-Bellomy. Just give me 5 guys who can play and dominate as a unit.
If we can do that, we have a QB that can take us to the promise land. It all starts with the OL.
January 3rd, 2014 at 12:19 PM ^
Norfleet has the speed to be able to pull.
January 3rd, 2014 at 12:13 PM ^
January 3rd, 2014 at 12:19 PM ^
They must figure out a way to not be ranked 123rd in negative plays.
January 3rd, 2014 at 12:47 PM ^
January 3rd, 2014 at 1:18 PM ^
I'm just not getting my hopes up too much for next year as far as O-Line progression goes. There's a lot of talent there, but a lot of it is raw and hasn't had much, if any, game experience. The ones that have experience have gotten shuffled around so much they haven't had time to gel with one another. Want to know part of why OSU's line was so good this year? They'd been playing together at the same positions for years.
I know that comes with time, but we can't keep shuffling guys around and expect regular progression.
