He is not, he pretty much hates Michigan and the city of Detroit.
well that's just, like, your opinion, man
He is not, he pretty much hates Michigan and the city of Detroit.
Jack hates Detroit so much that he has spent the past several years releasing the music of several Detroit artists/bands that haven't so much as gotten a lick of notice from the rest of the music industry (the Thornbills, Duane the Teenage Weirdo, Black Milk, etc.), with several of the artists surprised he'd even heard of them. And held the lucrative tri-color record releases for all of them in local Detroit record stores. He has showcased them, and several others at shows at the TMR venue in Nashville, and has included them in tours and shows nationwide. He isn't doing that for Nashville groups.
Jack hates Detroit so much that when the split-color releases of the first three Stripes records came out last year, one of the three locations picked for the sale was a street corner in Southwest Detroit. Then he gave the proceeds to a neighborhood Catholic parish's renovation fund.
Jack hates Detroit so much that he went so far as to clarify the comments he made, in frustration, after he moved to Nashville in 2004. He has consistently said nothing but positive things about his time in Detroit since then, and in many quiet ways has done a lot of good things for the local music scene beyond what you see coming out of TMR. It was tough for Jack to literally be the heart and soul of the Detroit music scene, for his every move to be hung on by an entire city, and he decided to go do something new. People do that in life. And he was unfairly villified for it.
Jack did so much for this city and its music, and continues to do so, that it's hard to say with a straight face he hates this place. Because it simply isn't true. Can't wait for the show at the Masonic on the 24th.
I just want to point out that Jack White was not literally the heart and soul of the Detroit music scene. Kid Rock, Eminem, Big Sean, Mike Posner, Royce, Obie Trice, Uncle Kracker, and Electric Six. You might not like anyone listed, but Jack White wasn't carrying Detroit on his back.
Jack White carried the rock n roll scene, there's no question about that. The rest of those guys you mentioned have nothing to do with that with the exception of the Electric Six, which were good, but never even close to the level of the Stripes.
to have gotten tickets to that show. Ticketmaster dicked me over and then I looked at StubHub twenty minutes after the sale started and people were listing them for $189. That crap pisses me off.
Legitimate question from someone not from Michigan or even the Midwest. What is with people from Michigan (about Detroit)? I hear people all the time make comments like “I believe in Detroit,” and they seem to get legitimately offended when people speak negatively about the city. And this is behavior being exhibited by people from all over Michigan, not confined to the Metro area. I’m not trying to upset anyone, I am genuinely curious because I’ve never seen anything like this in other areas.
Because Detroit is our city. And we're sick of people telling us it sucks.
I suppose it’s the notion of it being your city that I don’t understand. That kind of loyalty to a city isn’t something I’ve seen elsewhere (other than by the actual inhabitants of the city). I typically try to avoid speaking negatively about it because I’ve noticed it upsets people. I’m just interested by the dynamic.
Loyalty is one of the most endearing qualities of a Michigander.
The pilot of the Hindenburg was extremely loyal to his blimp and its abilities. And the captain of the Titanic strongly believed that his boat could avoid icebergs. Just saying . . . at some point its time to jump ship (so to speak).
And I'm sure there are hundreds of other examples in which loyalty paid off.
Detroit is OUR city. Sure it's fallen on some hard times, but it has such strong tradition and history. People from Michigan are loyal, tough, and have a lot of pride in the state.
I'm a non-detroiter also and I never thought it sucked. It's a pretty cool place.
Just my opinion and take it for what it's worth; people like to rip on Detroit all the time, sometimes justified, but the people that do it are the same people who have never visited Detroit, have never been near it, and have never faced hardship like some Detroit citizens have.
Detroit's an easy target people think, "Oh it's just a city that rioted and screwed itself over" when in fact that is not the case. Detroit has been lead by corrupt politicians for years and with the economic downswing in the automotive industry it only became worse. Many of us from the metro area enjoy downtown and don't think it's similar to Hiroshima (thanks Glenn Beck). I love living near Detroit, and I'll defend it from people who denigrate the city and its citizens from unfair ridicule. It's still a ways away, but I believe in Detroit.
I understand your question MJF, hopefully this sheds a little light.
“the people that do it are the same people who have never visited Detroit, have never been near it, and have never faced hardship like some Detroit citizens have.”
This makes sense. I can appreciate this, I guess. Thank you for taking my question seriously. It was something I was surprised by when I first came here, and I just wanted to educate myself. For the most part, the in state students I’ve met here are very passionate about the subject, for whatever that’s worth.
but my impression was that they'd claim Green Bay before they'd claim Detroit. Was my sample size too small? Or does the long distance tend to make the bond more tenuous?
You bring up an interesting point, though. It's tough to think of any other state that sticks up for one city like so many Michiganders do for Detroit (even if not all of them do). It's likely due in some part that Detroit has meaning beyond just the city - Motor City, Motown. I wonder if New Orleans has a similar position in Louisiana?
The affinity to Green Bay is, imo, mostly Packers based but a lot of Yoopers look to Wisconsin generally rather than "down state." What's interesting is the percentage that does look to Detroit. They're more vehement than most Michiganders on the subject, and they generally hold a hatred for Wisconsin (and especially the Packers) that warms my heart.
In my experience, Yoopers will often cite the distance. They grow up taking weekend shopping trips or whatever to Green Bay, Appleton, Milwaukee or even Chicago rather than going to Detroit. They almost always cite distance to explain their Packer fandom, but many of those will also be a non-alumnus fan of UM or be big fans of the Tigers and Red Wings. Lotta traitors round these parts if you ask me.
Definitely disagree on this one. I have family in the U.P. and while some of them root for the Packers, they do not identify with the state of Wisconsin at all. They cheer for all the other Detroit teams and usually one of Michigan or MSU.
Sports is the glue holding the city together. Without the professional sports teams, Detroit wouldn't be any different than Flint right now. Detroit would still have some cool little places to eat and see. I'm sure Flint does too, but I don't hear people saying "I believe in Flint". Detroit will be back. I agree that it's going to take a while.
but for real, the place is a dump and nothing is going to change it.
that their is nothing you enjoy to do in Detroit?
Detroit has some great bars, concert venues and festivals. It's your loss for never taking advantage of them.
That is precisely where I didn’t want this discussion to go. Feel free to be an unpleasant human being, but please do so somewhere else.
You didn't do anything wrong, written above is the reason most of us try to defend Detroit.
In that case, you're a bad person and you deserve whatever hardships you endure.
EXACTLY this. We get upset and defend our city because the majority of people ripping on it haven't even been to Detroit, or stepped foot in the state of Michigan.
We know that Detroit isn't the greatest city in the world, and it does have more problems then pretty much every big city in the US, but it definitely doesn't deserve the rep it gets. St. Louis and Atlanta had higher crime rates last year, yet you don't hear anything bad about those cities. Philly had the highest murder rate per capita last year, yet you don't hear anything bad about that city.
People come here and just see a lot of run down buildings and think it's an industrial wasteland. The city has a ton of heart, and entrepreneurs are starting to migrate to Detroit because they see it's potential. I honestly think that if/when Detroit gets cleaned up, it would/will be one of the best cities to live in. The downtown area is gorgeous and has a ton of potential.
I highly reccomend you watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMysMDHdb4 Johnny Knoxville came to Detroit and did a mini documentary of sorts.
probably the same reason I was, am, and will remain a Detroit Lions fan.
If he is not the coolest, he's definitely in the conversation. One of my friends recently said that John Mayer was a better guitar player than Jack White. I just about wrecked my truck when I heard it.
Edit - I thought we were talking music. Truly, I do not know his feelings on all things Michigan. I do know that he is an exceptionally talented musician.
But don't mind if others get side-tracked as I'll learn even more that way.
his music certainly, but John Mayer is a phenomenal guitar player when he's not doing pop songs.
I was gonna mention Mayer but was worried about the backlash. I completely agree...he's a phenomenal guitarist even if his albums aren't great.
Mayer maybe the most frustrating musician around today. He has all the talent in the world. Look up some of his performances at the Crossroads guitar festival or his appearances at other people's shows or when he's playing blues. He does some ridiculous things with a guitar...unfortunately his records end up being 'easy rockin romantic pop songs' and it makes him look like a giant vagina.
I'm proud to say that I've never listened to a John Mayer album.
I do think White is a better guitarist than Mayer, as I think White is a phenomenal guitarist. However, I don't Mayer gets as much credit as he deserves as a musician. He's pretty a pretty damn good guitarist.
John Meyer is by far a better guitarist than Jack White. He is also way more diverse.
Jack White or Dave Grohl? I am taking Dave Grohl but the Stripes aren't bad.
And Dave Grohl maybe ups Jack White by singing, playing guitar AND chewing gum all at the same time.
I've always liked Grohl more as a drummer. He can't even compete with Jack White on the guitar.
Grohl can do it all. On the first Foo Fighters Album he played every instrument since he recorded it before he put the band together.
Does that make him a better guitarist somehow?
Jack White is pretty cool, but he's no Jonny Greenwood. And Dave Grohl?
Smoked it in Nirvana, plays guitar, sings well. Jack is not even close.
No. Jack Nicholson is.
Jack White also done a TON of complete money grabs. His song with the Insane Clown Posse, for instance. I can't consider him one of the best because of this crap. I've got a lot more respect for Jeff Tweedy, Dave Grohl, and Thom Yorke.
OK, name another one.
Yeah, the ICP thing was lame, but I think with the TMR Blue Series releases (and especially the Green Series), it's clear Jack likes to have fun with it. He picks artists he likes, songs and projects he thinks are fun or interesting, and doesn't really seem to adhere to a lot of conventions or rules about it. I'll admit, I hate ICP, and it's one of the few TMR releases I've flat-out refused to buy. But I get it. It fits with the bigger picture.
The whole vision of TMR is so cool because it has such a wide spectrum of things, and I think that's what makes Jack so unique in the music industry right now. It's clear he's just having fun with it, hence the whole phenomenon of the Jack-as-Willy-Wonka deal over at TMR. It's an aesthetic, a line of products, with a complexity and energy behind all of it that just continues to boggle the mind. You don't release a record full of liquid, or release 1000 flexi-discs on biodegradable balloons, or encase a record inside another record unless you have a certain sense of humor or daring about what you're doing.
And, really, I don't know how much he makes off the non-JW/White Stripes/Dead Weather/Racs releases in the long run. The bigger-name products, like Stripes reissues, solo singles, etc. are what funds the rest of the madness.
What you see as edgy and humorous I see as cheap propoganda. How is the TMR aesthetic approach any different then ICP lunch boxes and action figures? To me it's just a way for White to squeeze every nickel out of his fan base while producing as little quality music as possible. Honestly, I've got way more respect for Ryan Adams then I do Jack White anymore. Sure Adams is boring, but at least he keeps churning out work and putting himself out there.
Didn't know he did garbage music with ICP. Respect lost. I think ICP is worst thing in music in the last 50 years
Do you even know what it's like being a lat guy in an abs guy world?
ICP is from Michigan as well. Maybe he was throwing them a bone or something.
ICP is awful. I'd never willfully listen to them. Jack White is alright, I guess, but to be honest, the whole of the Michigan music scene isn't really that impressive. There are exactly 0 artists from Michigan that I listen to on an even semi-regular basis.
He wins coolest hands down. But Jack White does his thing pretty well too.
Jim James FTW!
Dude is not a great guitar player at all. I love their music, but very weak on the guitar. A high school kid can play their shit in 5 minutes with tableture.
He is def. not one of the best guitar players. His playing skill is comical, and I always become completely confused how he seems to make it on some lists.
If Dave Grohl didn't have the fortune of drumming for Kurt Cobain nobody would have ever heard of him. If you like middling rawk songs with a vocal style that always ends up in him screaming the chorus over and over at the end then he's your man. He is a far better drummer than guitar player and even then he's just "good".
Foo Fighters > Nickelback but not by a lot
Foo Fighters aren't the greatest rock band around, but they're miles and miles ahead of Nickelback. And Dave Grohl has some range as a singer/songwriter. I don't know how much of their stuff you've listened to, but if you listen to the albums instead of the singles, you'll see some impressive versatility.
Do you know how many of these stories there are in rock history?
I feel the same way.
"IS SOMEONE GETTING THE BEST? THE BEST? THE BEST? THE BEST? THE BEST? THE BEST? THE BEST? THE BEST? THE BEST? THE BEST OF YOU?"
"I NEVER WANNA DIE! I NEVER WANNA DIE! I NEVER WANNA DIE! I NEVER.."
Sure there's worse, but the accolades they receive just boggle the mind. Appreciation for all the foo they fight I guess. Someone has to do it.
So all the success he's had since Cobain offed himself is because he drummed for Nirvana? Please.
By your logic then, is the only reason ice cube and dre are successful is because they were in NWA?
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. Without the Nirvana aura it is unlikely the music he created for his Foo Fighters project would have ever gotten picked up by a major label and you would have never heard of him.
That being said, he did make Nirvana much better after he joined with his drumming. I respect his drumming quite a bit. But not his songwriting, guitar playing, lyrical or vocal ability. There are a million dudes knocking around bars in North America who can sing/guitarsling as well as he can.
Doesn't suck. Just not great.
You stole my thunder, ppToilet.
I'm still waiting to hear how that Bright Eyes concert was!
It was a great concert, but it was on their "People's Key" tour...and I'm not a big fan of the album. Also, Conor Oberst isn't the alcoholic he was when he was younger, so the show was a little more subdued. That's a good thing for him, of course, but it's just different.
I would've thought that would have been a great show...
Lot of talk about Detroit rock on here and no mention of Sponge? I saw them play in front of about 50 people at a bar in Worcester a couple years ago and they rocked the place. Like Detroit, they've seen better times but they keep plugging away.
I had no idea sponge was from Detroit. I've enjoyed what I've heard from them, but I haven't listened to all of their stuff... mostly just the stuff that made it on the radio.
Wait, what exactly is wrong with Ms. Upton?
Jack's very, very good and i'm not even close to being a White Stripes fan, but "best guitarist of a generation" is too subjective to ever reach consensus on. I'd say that Tim Sult (Clutch) has better chops than White or Grohl, see: The Bakerton Group for more technical work than with Clutch.
On Detroit, i'm of the relatively small group of white people under 40 who can say that i was born in the Shitty and actually lived there as a child. We moved out (to the little shitty of Ypsi) when i was in elemntary school, but my grandfather was a scion of the Polish-American community in Detroit so i spent huge amounts of time in it even after moving away. High school in Livonia brought me closer again. Then i turned down my UM acceptance and went to Wayne, living in the city in the early-mid 90's...before the Ilitch turnaround on Woodward really took hold. So yeah, drive-bys happened in my college neighborhood and crack heads wandered into classes.
It may be a shit-hole, but it's my shit-hole and nobody not from it has any right to speak ill of Detroit. As far as i'm concerned, the rest of America still owes Detroit a huge debt for all the city gave 20th Century America.
I may be an outlier. During my six years living abroad, people would say that i was from Detroit or Michigan rather than being an American. I never argued.
I was in Geneva in for a few days the summer of '99 and I saw a handbill on a bulletin board promoting a techno show announcing the "best DJs from Detroit, USA." I don't really like techno at all but I thought about going to the show just to represent.
Now if that isn't a sign of the end of times I don't know what is...
And being really really really good at guitar is overrated. I prefer guitarist like kurdt cobain, dimebag darrell, and jack white who may not be crazy good but write very good songs.. I prefer them over john mayer and a million other 'talented' guys who write uninspired songs... but that is just me.
Dime WAS crazy good. How many metal guitar players could wank with the feel he had?
The ardent defense of and loyalty to Detroit in this thread is PURE MICHIGAN.
Love it. Jack White is my favorite musician that still currently produces music. I think he's one of the best. But I'm also incredibly biased having lived in Michigan my whole life.
The Courage of Detroit - by Mitch Albom. Without a doubt, the greatest article ever written about Michigan and the city of Detroit. Hit's the nail on the head.
A couple great quotes from the article.
"It's not that we watch more, or pay more, or cheer louder than other cities. But I will bet you my last dollar that, when it comes to sports, nobody cares as much as Detroit cares."
"People in Detroit can still tell you where they were when they heard about that limo smashing into a tree in suburban Birmingham six days after the Cup win of '97, forever changing the lives of Vladimir Konstantinov, Slava Fetisov and Sergei Mnatsakanov. Vigils were held outside the hospital.
Remember, these were two hockey players and a masseur, Russians to boot; none of them did much talking in English. Didn't matter. They were ours, and they were wounded. It felt as if there was no other news for weeks in Detroit. "You hear anything?" people would say. "Any updates?"
"Enough. We're not gum on the bottom of America's shoe. We're not grime to be wiped off with a towel. Detroit and Michigan are part of the backbone of this country, the manufacturing spine, the heart of the middle class -- heck, we invented the middle class, we invented the idea that a factory worker can put in 40 hours a week and actually buy a house and send a kid to college. What? You have a problem with that? You think only lawyers and hedge-fund kings deserve to live decently?"
"Maybe because when our kids finish college and take that first job in some sexy faraway city and a year later we see them back home and we ask what happened, they say, "I missed my friends and family." And we nod and say we understand."
He is an awful writer who is completely disingenuous.
I'm not sure why, but Jack White has never done it for me. I recognize that be is talented and he has a unique flair to him bit I've never enjoyed a single piece of music he has put out
Never did it for me either. As for guitarist, I could list 20 of them before JW even entered the conversation.
Jimi Hendrix. Eric Clapton. Peter Frampton. Dave Grohl. Jack White.
Best gutarist of this generation eh...not so much. IMO that title belongs to Derek Trucks. If you have never heard of him, and like the blues check him out.
The board is getting clogged up with useless topics. The actual on-topic posts these days get lost and fall way down the list because of stuff like this. This is an insult to Brian and the site by clogging up the board with this garbage.
Wow how do you really feel lol
You can leave if you prefer.
I'm sure Brian would prefer that in the off-season, we just stop visiting his site. Right?
Josh Homme would melt jack whites face off
Just my $0.02 but he is my favorite. He was up there in technical proficiency, had a certain flair in his work, and died way too young to fufill his potential.
Wish we could have heard more from him. What he left behind was amazing but it feels incomplete.