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Way OT: Frontline Documentary on Financial Crisis

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April 26th, 2012 at 7:40 PM
#1
jcorqian
jcorqian's picture
Joined: 10/18/2010
MGoPoints: 387
Way OT: Frontline Documentary on Financial Crisis

For those of you interested in finance, Frontline has done a tremendous documentary on the recent financial crisis.  It is a four part series (currently parts one and two are out) with tremendous detail.  You can watch it here.  I have written a blog post on it, Inside Job, and some of my quick thoughts on the financial crisis here.

I would highly recommend watching this for those of you still in school and are thinking about working in finance.  At least when I was interviewing, there were definitely questions on the crisis (although that was about two years ago).  However, you should definintely watch it regardless of just interview preperation to gain a broader understanding of the industry and the recent turmoil.

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April 26th, 2012 at 7:49 PM
#2
a2_electricboogaloo
a2_electricboogaloo's picture
Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 9219
Well, there's no way that

Well, there's no way that this could get political.

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April 26th, 2012 at 7:56 PM
#3
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 44839
Okay, folks

Like Charlie Brown trying to be Brendan Gibbons (Lucy was a brunette girl, after all.), I'm gonna leave this up to see if we can have this discussion without delving into politics.

Please be good, or I'll artificially inflate the number of MGoPoints on this blog, divide this blog into traunches, sell derivatives of those traunches as securities, and make a fortune until the whole thing collapses. Then won't you feel bad?

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:04 PM
(Reply to #3) #4
a2_electricboogaloo
a2_electricboogaloo's picture
Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 9219
OMG THAT WOULD BE JUST LIKE

OMG THAT WOULD BE JUST LIKE [INSERT POLITICAL FIGURE THAT I IDEOLOGICALLY DISAGREE WITH HERE]

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:14 PM
(Reply to #6) #5
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 44839
Last warning

STOP BRINGING UP BENJAMIN HARRISON. His handling of the admission of North Dakota to the Union is off limits on this blog.

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:39 PM
(Reply to #12) #6
a2_electricboogaloo
a2_electricboogaloo's picture
Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 9219
HARRISON WAS THE WORST

HARRISON WAS THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER.  HIS STANCE ON SILVER COINAGE IS RUINING THE COUNTRY.

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:40 PM
(Reply to #15) #7
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 44839
THAT'S IT

Bolivian. One hour.

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:59 PM
(Reply to #20) #8
a2_electricboogaloo
a2_electricboogaloo's picture
Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 9219
THIS ISN'T OVER BISB!

THIS ISN'T OVER BISB!

Edit: Apparently this is over...oh well.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:12 PM
(Reply to #23) #9
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 44839
Hehehe

Edit: Apparently this is over...oh well.

Oh, you'd like to believe that, wouldn't you...

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:33 PM
(Reply to #35) #10
a2_electricboogaloo
a2_electricboogaloo's picture
Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 9219
FIRST YOU TAKE TWO PARTS OF

FIRST YOU TAKE TWO PARTS OF MY MGOTRIFORCE AND NOW THIS?!?

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:50 PM
(Reply to #44) #11
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 44839
Okay, okay

White flag. Points restored.

Our long blog nightmare is over. Now is a time for healing"

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:42 PM
(Reply to #15) #12
LSAClassOf2000
LSAClassOf2000's picture
Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 81351
To Be Absolutely Fair...

You have to give Harrison credit for solidifying American fishing rights around the Aleutians, as well as being the first President whose voice is actually preserved on a phonograph cylinder. 

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:45 PM
(Reply to #15) #13
SalvatoreQuattro
SalvatoreQuattro's picture
Joined: 11/30/2010
MGoPoints: 39920
HEY, DON’T CRUCIFY HIM ON THE CROSS OF GOLD!

HARRISON WAS NO CLEVELAND OR ARTHUR, BUT HE WAS BETTER THAN HAYES!

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:52 PM
(Reply to #24) #14
a2_electricboogaloo
a2_electricboogaloo's picture
Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 9219
THAT'S NOT SAYING MUCH. MY

THAT'S NOT SAYING MUCH. MY TOASTER WOULD BE A BETTER COMMANDER IN CHIEF THAN HAYES.

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April 27th, 2012 at 1:45 AM
(Reply to #26) #15
PatrickBateman
PatrickBateman's picture
Joined: 02/16/2012
MGoPoints: 199
I appraciate this type of

I appraciate this type of comedy of MGo because it would pass oveer the heads of any other board.  Even though I'm inebriated I  love MGo.

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April 27th, 2012 at 5:10 PM
(Reply to #26) #16
Seth
Seth's picture
Joined: 10/14/2008
MGoPoints: 94411
YOUR TOASTER WAS A FALSE

YOUR TOASTER WAS A FALSE PRESIDENT! CONGRESS JUST HANDED HIM THE 1820 ELECTION AFTER IT WAS CLEAR MY HOOSIER CABINET HAD FAR MORE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES, NOT TO MENTION MY CABINET WON THE DECISIVE BATTLE OF THE WAR OF 1812* WHILE YOUR TOASTER WAS OFF IN RUSSIA BEING A DANDY!

* So decisive in fact it ended the war before the battle even happened!

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April 27th, 2012 at 7:45 AM
(Reply to #24) #17
saveferris
saveferris's picture
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 15693
Better than Hayes?

Considering both came from Ohio, that's not saying much. Hayes was from Delaware, which is just north of Columbus, so that should be enough to make a distinction.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:23 PM
(Reply to #15) #18
wigeon
wigeon's picture
Joined: 07/05/2008
MGoPoints: 6729
he was a visionary

opened up the best duckhunting state EVER. 

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:09 PM
(Reply to #3) #19
ppToilet
ppToilet's picture
Joined: 04/18/2011
MGoPoints: 3011
Don't forget

to insure yourself in case the whole thing collapses.

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:10 PM
(Reply to #3) #20
hart20
hart20's picture
Joined: 05/25/2011
MGoPoints: 5692
Wait, so you're gonna take

Away everyone's MGoPoints and give them to me? I mean, it'd really help my MGoSelf-Esteem....

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:43 PM
(Reply to #3) #21
mgobleu
mgobleu's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 23830
See, this is how the system

See, this is how the system screws you. This system only benefits those with the most mgopoints. Hell, people with less than 100 points can't even post! How the hell is that fair? Meanwhile, those the ruling class like Brian and BISB get fat off of us in the mgomiddle class; I don't know about the rest of you, but I smell an uprising on the way...

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:54 PM
(Reply to #22) #22
Maize n Blue
Maize n Blue's picture
Joined: 09/09/2009
MGoPoints: 675
Points trickle down though...

Points trickle down though... if the people with less than 100 points want to post their own content then they just need to post more quality content. Without those who have a large amount of points starting board topics and diaries, those with less points wouldn't be able to comment and earn points of their own.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:04 PM
(Reply to #22) #23
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 42199
Looking at your Avatar.

You look like a 1%er.

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:10 PM
(Reply to #32) #24
jcorqian
jcorqian's picture
Joined: 10/18/2010
MGoPoints: 387
I'm definitely well within

I'm definitely well within the 99%.  I just like quality products.  I don't own that watch.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:10 PM
(Reply to #22) #25
LB
LB's picture
Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 10448
The key is to find the posts that will be deleted and make sure

to hit all of them. It's like free money! Yes, it does require work, so it won't be popular with everyone.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:36 PM
(Reply to #34) #26
hillbillyblue
hillbillyblue's picture
Joined: 03/17/2012
MGoPoints: 1099
That's like owning a home

That's like owning a home where you owe a lot more than the house is actually worth and then buying a new house below market value and letting the first house go back to the bank.  Great idea, count me in.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:22 PM
(Reply to #22) #27
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 44839
I tire of your blasphemies

BACK TO YOUR TURNIPS!!!

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:49 PM
(Reply to #22) #28
M-Dog
M-Dog's picture
Joined: 07/06/2008
MGoPoints: 147117
Occupy MGoBlog!!!

Occupy MGoBlog!!!

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:13 PM
(Reply to #50) #29
Sopwith
Sopwith's picture
Joined: 06/29/2010
MGoPoints: 21289
I more or less do Occupy MGoBlog

like, all day when I'm supposed to be, you know, "working".

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:01 PM
(Reply to #3) #30
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 42199
That is SO WRONG.

Charlie Brown liked the little red-haired girl.

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:00 PM
#31
SalvatoreQuattro
SalvatoreQuattro's picture
Joined: 11/30/2010
MGoPoints: 39920
Oh, yeah, I was waiting to hear from you on the financial crisis

Wait, who the hell are you?

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:02 PM
#32
BlueRude
BlueRude's picture
Joined: 11/17/2011
MGoPoints: 324
Help with this problem

Mr. A goes to buy a $100 lamp for his home to Mr. B.  Mr. B then pays Mr. C $100 on a loan. Mr. C then pays Mr. D on a stock buy to Mr. E. Now here comes the fun, Mr. A's wife says the lamp sucks and tells her husband to take it back. Who got fucked?

Thanks

 

 

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:05 PM
(Reply to #5) #33
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 44839
Well...

...if he doesn't keep his wife happy by returning the lamp, Mr. A certainly won't be fucked for a while.

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:07 PM
#34
MGoneBlue
Joined: 05/30/2011
MGoPoints: 1819
This can't end well.

This can't end well.

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:09 PM
(Reply to #8) #35
SalvatoreQuattro
SalvatoreQuattro's picture
Joined: 11/30/2010
MGoPoints: 39920
It certainly has not started well.*

bla

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:17 PM
#36
wlubd
wlubd's picture
Joined: 02/26/2009
MGoPoints: 7189
You know that there's 2 game

You know that there's 2 game 7's and the NFL draft on tonight right?

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:22 PM
#37
Bodogblog
Bodogblog's picture
Joined: 06/08/2010
MGoPoints: 21190
everyone was greedy

everyone in the country, of every political persuasion. It built a ridiculous bubble we all should have seen coming.

The only thing that politics dictates is who you blame.

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:25 PM
#38
Darker Blue
Darker Blue's picture
Joined: 10/30/2011
MGoPoints: 23318
Who the fuck cares???????

Who the fuck cares???????

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April 27th, 2012 at 12:40 AM
(Reply to #42) #39
Darker Blue
Darker Blue's picture
Joined: 10/30/2011
MGoPoints: 23318
Negative on the living with

Negative on the living with Mommy and Daddy sunshine. I was just one of the few who was smart enough not to tie all of my money up in some huge corporate bullshit. 

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April 27th, 2012 at 11:05 AM
(Reply to #74) #40
jcorqian
jcorqian's picture
Joined: 10/18/2010
MGoPoints: 387
So what about all the people

So what about all the people who lost their retirement/pension money?  They don't really control what those funds invest in.  Were they just not smart enough, unlike you?  Should they just have left their money in a savings account in the bank?

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April 27th, 2012 at 11:45 AM
(Reply to #86) #41
Darker Blue
Darker Blue's picture
Joined: 10/30/2011
MGoPoints: 23318
I don't have any idea about

I don't have any idea about what they should do. I was thinking about finally inventing the suicide booth today. Maybe they could test out the prototype

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:26 PM
#42
03 Blue 07
03 Blue 07's picture
Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 3494
I'll steer clear of politics,

I'll steer clear of politics, and add only this: If you want a more in-depth look at the same subject matter, read "Confidence Men," by WSJ reporter Ron Suskind. I just finished it. Without giving away my political leanings, I will say this: it skewers everyone. And the fundamental problems (Glass-Steagal's repeal, for example, is still in place; it was repealed in '99 and knocked down the walls between investment banks and commercial banks) are still largely there, despite the disaster of 2008.

But yeah, I don't know how we can have this discussion without a lot of uneducated conjecture and, well, I fear that it will get political. . .

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:29 PM
#43
TheThief
Joined: 09/17/2011
MGoPoints: 273
I saw the first part of that

I saw the first part of that documentary and it was well worth watching, I never thought a Frontline doc on the economic crisis could be riveting, but I could not change the channel once I started watching. As far as politics, there is plenty of blame to go around, people on both sides of the hall turned their back on middle America. What stuck with me most was the analyst who said "It was the savers that were being penalized." As a hard worker and a saver that made me want to go through the roof.

That being said, I will be watching the draft and the Lions tonight.

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:38 PM
#44
yzerman19
yzerman19's picture
Joined: 02/03/2012
MGoPoints: 1809
i am a UM JD/MBA

i am a UM JD/MBA '98 and i lived through that shit and think that miniseries should be required viewing for life.  if i were to channel my inner JJ White he would agree with me.  i liked your post too; didn't agree with all of it but will concede you are much brighter than me.  I.  whichever.

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April 27th, 2012 at 8:48 AM
(Reply to #19) #45
indi_blue
Joined: 10/04/2010
MGoPoints: 126
I remember one JD/MBA

I remember one JD/MBA graduate from 1998 joining Goldman "Gaint Squid" Sachs I-banking.  You might be that person.

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:49 PM
#46
m1jjb00
Joined: 11/21/2009
MGoPoints: 5350
I look forward to watching

I look forward to watching it. Thanks. But trust me when i say that i know of no book, movie or special that adequately got the breadth and complexity of what happened. The problem is that there isnt a clean narrative because too many are to blame

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:54 PM
(Reply to #25) #47
jcorqian
jcorqian's picture
Joined: 10/18/2010
MGoPoints: 387
I totally agree with that.

I totally agree with that.  I'm still trying to understand it fully myself, despite being somewhat immersed in that world here in NYC and surrounded by people who witnessed it firsthand.  I think this documentary does the best job of condensing everything into a narrative that can easily be understood by most people.

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April 26th, 2012 at 8:54 PM
#48
buddhafrog
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Thanks for the link.

Thanks for the link.  FRONTLINE is such a fantastic show.  I live overseas and didn't know this was the recent documentary topic.  I'll be watching today.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:02 PM
#49
bluebones
Joined: 10/31/2011
MGoPoints: 38
This thread reminds me

This thread reminds me of why I miss college football so much.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:41 PM
(Reply to #31) #50
hillbillyblue
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Joined: 03/17/2012
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Oh no an intellectual

Oh no an intellectual thread!  Run for the hills.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:54 PM
(Reply to #48) #51
Huma
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Ignorance is bliss until you

Ignorance is bliss until you realize your in the matrix.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:56 PM
(Reply to #52) #52
Huma
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Joined: 08/05/2008
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Grammar police

"you're"

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:11 PM
(Reply to #48) #53
Sopwith
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No need to run.

The Hills can come to you.  Available on Netflix.

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April 27th, 2012 at 9:27 AM
(Reply to #57) #54
El Jeffe
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I missed The Hills when it

I missed The Hills when it first came out. It was on BET, right?

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:17 PM
(Reply to #31) #55
SteelBrad
Joined: 04/27/2011
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Agreed

Agreed

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:15 PM
#56
Sopwith
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Joined: 06/29/2010
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This is an amazing documentary.

Speaking of Frontline documentaries on man-made disasters, their 2-part treatment on the first 4 years or so of the war in Iraq was still the best and most even-handed explanation of what happened as anything I've seen.  Their Madoff Ponzi scheme episode is up there as well.   The other financial shenangian documentary I love is "The Smartest Guys in the Room."  When I saw the 30-for-30 doc "Pony Exce$$" last year, it really reminded me in many ways of the Enron story for sheer brazeness. 

As far as the financial crisis, ProPublica put a radio broadcast on Magnetar's dealing that is still my "favorite" story about the financial crisis; it's straight out of "The Producers" in the sense that these guys figured out they could get rich by deliberately selling junk and betting against their own product on a truly grand scale.  It's amazing.  And it was perfectly legal.  Quite a story.  I did a quick search for the broadcast and didn't see the link, but here's the written story: http://www.propublica.org/article/the-magnetar-trade-how-one-hedge-fund-helped-keep-the-housing-bubble-going

 

 

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:15 PM
(Reply to #33) #57
reshp1
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I listened to a This American

I listened to a This American Life episode in npr about them ("inside job" episode). I don't think I've been that mad in a long time. This American Life also does some good episodes on the meltdown in general too. (Episode "giant pool of money" for example)

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:08 PM
(Reply to #36) #58
Sopwith
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That's the one I was thinking of.

Here's the link.  http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/405/inside-job

Incredible story.  

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:30 PM
(Reply to #33) #59
03 Blue 07
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Frontline

I've watched, I believe, every Frontline episode since 2003. In my opinion, it is the best television journalism in existence in the U.S. And, subjectively, I think it's the best show on TV of the last 10 years, along with The Wire, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, and Lost. I love Frontline. I even thought really hard about donating once.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:33 PM
(Reply to #33) #60
03 Blue 07
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Wow

Double post. Derp.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:33 PM
(Reply to #33) #61
03 Blue 07
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Epic. . .

Epic. Triple. Post. First ever.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:35 PM
#62
His Dudeness
Joined: 11/24/2008
MGoPoints: -104
I am no finance expert, but I

I am no finance expert, but I am amazed that with all of the liquid capital influxed into the system that there hasn't been much inflation. That was a BIG fear at one point and it hasn't really come on yet.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:40 PM
(Reply to #45) #63
m1jjb00
Joined: 11/21/2009
MGoPoints: 5350
Banks have parked all of that

Banks have parked all of that liquidity back at the fed. Is it just because they have nothing better to do with the cash or beacause their balance sheets still constrain them in some way. If the former and it turns can/will thefed sop it up in time? Time will tell.

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April 26th, 2012 at 9:46 PM
(Reply to #45) #64
BiSB
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Not terribly surprised

The capital influx was really only a partia stop-gap. Regular market capital is still really not flowing anywhere near the extent it was in the past.

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:37 PM
(Reply to #49) #65
Club2230
Joined: 01/13/2011
MGoPoints: 649
Popular solutions are doomed to fail.

Like you said, regular market capital is not flowing anywhere.  That is precisely because of the lack of savings.  Market capital is savings, and if we want to get that flowing again then we need to be more frugal and bank our paychecks to rebuild our capital and urge liquidation and recovery.  

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April 26th, 2012 at 11:02 PM
(Reply to #65) #66
BlueMan80
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Joined: 01/21/2011
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As it was explained to me by

As it was explained to me by my financial advisor who I trust, because he saved my bacon through all the trauma.... Banks are rebuilding their balance sheets with the help of the Fed and most of those "toxic assets" still have to be taken off the books. That's going to take time.

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:32 PM
(Reply to #45) #67
BlueRude
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Rumors for higher gas prices

Just rumors, the $ has been watered down causing higher prices. Please don't water down my scotch.

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:03 PM
#68
seksdesk
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Saw it the other day

Gut-wrenchingly frustrating. 

I blame calculus and its greedy spawn derivative. 

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:17 PM
(Reply to #54) #69
BiSB
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Indeed

That was an Integral part of the crisis.

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April 27th, 2012 at 10:33 AM
(Reply to #59) #70
UMGooch
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Joined: 12/16/2009
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Is there a Limit to all of

Is there a Limit to all of this madness?

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April 27th, 2012 at 10:23 AM
(Reply to #54) #71
M-Wolverine
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Joined: 10/04/2009
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Math is Evil.

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:34 PM
#72
NSaad23
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Joined: 11/20/2008
MGoPoints: 164
How different is this from

How different is this from inside the meltdown? Or is it basically the same thing?

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:40 PM
#73
ommeethatsees
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Joined: 08/08/2009
MGoPoints: 739
I love Frontline.  With the

I love Frontline.  With the dumbing down and biased viewpoints of American journalism it is very refreshing.  I think this subject was especially appealing. 

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April 26th, 2012 at 10:47 PM
#74
bigpapa.KG
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Joined: 02/19/2011
MGoPoints: 98
Liberal bias drive me crazy...

Its refreshing to see good reporting these days.

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April 26th, 2012 at 11:00 PM
#75
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 59124
Why is it I always miss the

Why is it I always miss the awesome faux arguments we have here at MGoBlog regarding points?  I mean, I'm old MGoPoints, seeing as how my grandfather founded Unverified Voracity and my father was an original Blockham.  So all of you nouveau MGoPointers are simply the scum of the MGoEarth to me and my kind.

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April 26th, 2012 at 11:10 PM
#76
aiglick
Joined: 11/27/2010
MGoPoints: 7860
Check out Too Big to Fail.

Check out Too Big to Fail. Also shows how everyone shares the blame. Couldn't put the book down.

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April 26th, 2012 at 11:12 PM
#77
BlockM
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Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 28426
Now that I'm a productive and

Now that I'm a productive and self-supporting member of society (or will be, once I pay off my student loans...), this subject has become 100x more fascinating to me. Thanks for the link.

It's highly disconcerting that the only constant theme throughout the videos is that no one really had any idea what was going on. Scares the crap out of me.

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April 26th, 2012 at 11:51 PM
#78
rob f
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Joined: 11/11/2010
MGoPoints: 76744
Frontline works very well

on my dogs.  I highly recommend it!

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April 27th, 2012 at 7:16 AM
#79
Callahan
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Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 3390
FACT: December 2007, Rich

FACT: December 2007, Rich Rodriguez hired by Michigan.

FACT: Summer 2008, economy breaks down.

Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

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April 27th, 2012 at 8:52 AM
#80
ChicagoB1GRed
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Joined: 06/10/2010
MGoPoints: 1168
Posts like this are one reason I visit this board as a rival fan

thanks for posting, I'm not in school or interviewing in the financial sector but like high quality stuff like this on current events.

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April 27th, 2012 at 10:42 AM
#81
Mitch Cumstein
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Joined: 10/02/2009
MGoPoints: 12905
Questions

I'm an engineer and  admittedly don't know much about finance or Wall Street, but I would like to learn a lot more as I manage my savings.  A lot of times I get lost in some of the vocabulary associated with information like this documentary, but the more I read and learn from shows like this, the faster I can make sense of new information.

 I watched the 1st hour of the special and have some general questions for people that are in the field.  My main question is this:  it sounded like this all started from one entity selling their risk to another entity.  What I don't understand is why the second entity (in this case, as the documentary described, the banks in Europe) would buy the risk.  It seems like they would have to be getting less benefit than the seller (otherwise the seller wouldn't sell) and obviously a higher probability of loss.  

One guy said in the documentary that "risk will flow to the dumbest person".  Is that really what this was all about?  Basically shoveling risk to people that didn't understand what they were getting into?  For me its just hard to understand why there would have been buyers to start.  It wasn't really clear from the show what there was to gain on the other side of things.  Thanks to anyone that can help me out on this.  

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April 27th, 2012 at 2:16 PM
(Reply to #84) #82
Blue4U
Joined: 09/13/2011
MGoPoints: 3491
The ball really started

The ball really started rolling in 99 when provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act were repealled.  At that time there were 2 types of bank:  investment banks (Bear Stearns, Goldman-Sacs, Lehman and so on) and commercial banks (Washington Mutual, Capital One and so on).  When provisions of the GS act were repealled, it allowed commecial banks to proprietary trade and it allowed investment banks the ability to deal with mortgages.  This created a huge conflict in interest.

As far as buying risk, these companies were niave to think the housing market would continue to go up.  This is exactly what happended with the tech bubble in the 90's. No one ever thought the market would correct itself and drop.  And it did in a big way.  The reason for buying this risk is there is reward on the other side of the trade.  When you trade/invest, you can't have one without the other.  The greater the risk, the greater the reward.  And it was working until the bubble became to big, and then pop.  It all comes down.

I know this subject matter well because I'm a day trader.  I've been trading since 2000.  I've traded anything from stocks to futures and now I trade the forex market.  All this volitility has been good for day traders, not so good for investors.  Hope I've help make some sense of this for you.  A good book to read or movie to watch explaining all of this is To Big To Fail by Andrew Sorkin, currently on CNBC in the mornings.

    

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April 27th, 2012 at 10:51 AM
#83
sandiego
Joined: 12/15/2008
MGoPoints: -565
theseshows arent the half of it

These shows are great at the broad strokes. I have been involved in two federal securities class action cases against the worst offenders and the really, really egregious specific acts never see tne light of day because everyone settles and the settlements and all discovery is confidential.

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April 27th, 2012 at 12:55 PM
#84
markusr2007
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Joined: 10/21/2008
MGoPoints: 15662
It was a great documentary. Highly recommended.

I'm amazed that Frontline got the interviews they did because some of the actors should have been frog marched back in 2009 or otherwise under indictment for fraud.

I live in southern California. For those of you in Michigan or the Midwest, the HELOC abuse that took place out here would probably put you into a coma. It's was that pervasive. Everyone did it - from school bus drivers to corporate CEOs.

Except we're now all reading about how foreclosure is "destroying families". Actually foreclosure is the one solution that's going to get us (and many underwater Americans) out of this mess, into a better place in 2-3 years, and normalize markets.  As for banks, they are not in the clear yet. It's now 2012 and the Texas Ratios of hundreds are shocking.

And just think, government intervention and the Fed caused it all.

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April 27th, 2012 at 2:54 PM
#85
sambora114
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Joined: 02/18/2012
MGoPoints: 674
IMO a very underappreciated cause of the crisis was

...normal people.

 

Interest rates / inflation have been kept very low for a long time due to a variety of forces.

 

1. Globalization

a.) lots of new workers, mature economies can afford to not raise wages as they can make the same products with the same quality with cheaper labor

2. Low inflation no need to increase interest rates

3. With low interest rates, it's very difficult to meet pension obligations.

a.) pensions generally can only invest in lower risk securities, but these securities don't return very much

With US treasuries and corporate debt yielding very little, people needed another way to meet their pension obligations. Think huge funds like CALPERS or various other "sophisticated" investors. They bought a lot of junk assets that was yielding a lot more than traditional securities yet had AAA ratings by credit ratings. Residential mortgage backed securities seemingly defied all concepts of finance; here was something that was as risky as a US treasury but yielding 5% higher. That wasn't accurate.

Lots of investors didn't do the diligence or appreciate the risks they were taking.  But these people were chasing yield to a certain extent to meet their defined benefit obligation. So my parents and grandparents were in some way to blame for achieving unaffordable retirement benefits that their former employers had to pay for.

This is very superficial analysis but the basic gist is that in the show of 2007 - 2009 lots of very smart and not so smart people made a lot of bad decisions and the world-wide financial system was very close to collapse. My first day in investment banking was July 7, 2007. Market highs were October 2007, lows in March 2009. It's been pretty interesting see it all go down.

My advice, find someone you can trust who loves the markets and have them take care of it. Ideally a hedge fund manager, but if you are a few million short look to keep your assets diversified---no jargon if you need the money soon (cash, investment grade debt) if you need in 50 years to retire (stocks, commodities, risky volatile stuff). If you really like getting weird, let's do some derivatives.

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April 27th, 2012 at 4:21 PM
(Reply to #90) #86
markusr2007
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Joined: 10/21/2008
MGoPoints: 15662
Biggest mistake was stripping out food and fuel

from the CPI.

Low inflation is a lie.

Just ask anyone 75 years or older righ nowon a fixed income. They'll happily show you their grocery bills from 2000 and compare it to 2012.

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April 27th, 2012 at 3:17 PM
#87
markusr2007
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Joined: 10/21/2008
MGoPoints: 15662
Next big bubble to pop: Govt backed student loans

Book it.

Also, this is a great free book on the housing crash:

http://www.thegreathousingbubble.com/images/uploads/book/The%20Great%20Housing%20Bubble%20ebook%20(printable).pdf

 

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April 27th, 2012 at 9:53 PM
#88
Mitch Cumstein
Mitch Cumstein's picture
Joined: 10/02/2009
MGoPoints: 12905
As a side note

After watching the 2nd episode I decided to read your blog.  While I still don't know much about finance, and I'll have to "take your word for it" for now with regards to the crisis, I also read some of your other posts and enjoyed reading them.  Especially the one about the Cap1  bowl.   That was the year after I graduated and despite the first 2 games of the season, I really enjoyed watching that team, and that last win for Lloyd was as rewarding for me as a fan than any win I can remember (Ohio this year and some other ones while I was a kid as well).

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