Wasted Redshirts and Terrence Talbott

okay, neg away BUT...

Talbott was never going to be first team All B1G and he wasn't ever going to be someone we relied on heavily to be a contributor. He was a depth player and might get some starts this year. I think in a perfect world he's your third or fourth corner. I don't say that to be mean or disrespectful. I appreciate all these kids who do so much for our university and give their all for our football team. But sometimes a kid is 'just a guy' and whether he's here for four years or five doesn't make any difference. It doesn't seem incredibly likely that the 'light goes on' in year 5 because he was able to red shirt as a freshman or a sophmore. I'm sure the coaches respect and love him but I don't think he'd be the hardest guy in the world to replace with a new recruit in a couple years. 

I never understand all the obsession with failure to redshirt, especially with Hoke and Co. doing the recruiting.  From this point forward there are always going to be capable players in the pipeline.  Let the young man graduate and get on with his life.

If he can't make an impact in 4 years why makes you think the 5th would be different. Burning the redshirt to see what he can do is fine with me. These coaches know what they are doing.

I bet the OP and others like him will not miind Talbott leaving after 4 years if it means bringing in a 4-5 star player in his place during that recruiting cycle. I dont think many people are crying that Terrance Robinson isnt coming back because we all would like to see that scholarship go to a guy on NSD like Cravens, Mathis, Levenberry, or some one like them.

If a player works hard and you don't let him play, he might transfer to somewhere else where he can play.  Then you will have invested a redshirt year developing him for another program.

Being on special teams doesn't mean he didn't contribute to the team.We can still get maybe 3 productive years from the kid.

Your comment also seems to assume that the coaches know in advance that he is only going to be on special teams and play in two games.  Maybe the guy goes out and forces two fumbles in the first game and earns some more playing time.  It's easy to look back and say, "Oh, they should have redshirted him" when you know the outcome of the season.

In almost all redshirt cases, players agree that the idea is best for them or even request the redshirt if they don't think they're going to get to play.  You really have no idea whether or not Talbott wanted to be redshirted.  If he had asked the coached to redshirt him so he could have an extra year of eligibility, don't you think they would have done it?

I think you're forgetting that Talbott got hurt and that's why his action was limited.

Remember that guy who pulled up with a hamstring injury as a punt gunner against Notre Dame (one of those plays where you thought WHY ISN'T THE NOTRE DAME GUY RETURNING THE BALL until we looked back at the end of the year and realized Kelly doesn't trust his players and that's why they had 4 punt return yards all year)?

That was Talbott. Maybe he'll get a fifth-year due to injury. Maybe not. Who cares about 2014 - at that point someone else will be here ready to play.

With the way we're currently recruiting, I'm not too worried about anyone "wasting" a redshirt. This was only an issue to me during the RR years, when CBs were much better as prospects than they were when they actually saw the field.

You're acting like you're looking at the decision in hindsight.  In this case, you can't even call it hindsight yet. You're actually trying to predict the future.

Talbott may be showing signs of promise and may be able to contribute, but it will be several years before we can really look back on this and tell whether not having another year of Talbott was harmful. 

If you didn't like the coaches decision to not redshirt Talbott, get ready to be very dissappointed over the next few years.  I don't think Hoke & Staff can afford to RS many players.  The pressure is on to win and win now.  Perhaps in a few years when he's had four or more recruiting classes and plenty of depth he will have the luxury of RSing players?

Maybe he doesn't WANT to red-shirt.

What 2 games did he play?  Maybe he made a difference.  Take him off special teams and maybe the walk-on replacing him makes a mistake...and, given that we won several close games and 'game of inches'.... maybe one of those mistakes happens then.  Maybe it costs us ND, OSU or the Sugar Bowl.

It's impossible to know what impact he had, but last season worked out fabulously well and Talbott played a role in that, even if it was tiny.  No regrets.

I think people need to understand this is not about them it is about that team.  I agree that burning redshirts is often a waste, but that coaching staff has an obligation to that team to put the best players on that field to help that team win. 

Let's look at it this way.  Imagine you were a senior back in 1989 and you have busted your ass all year to get ready to make a run at a Big Ten and National Championship.  You know that there are some talented freshmen playing special teams that are making your special teams a great unit.   Right before the season Bo told the freshmen we don't want to waste your redshirt so you are off the kickoff coverage unit and we're replacing you with a couple of walk ons. This leads to some breakdowns and 2 Rocket Ismail touchdowns that cost Michigan the game and their NC hopes.   

Was it still the right call to you?  Maybe    Do you think the seniors thought it was the right call?   Doubt it.    Do you think the freshmen thought it was the right call?  Doubt it but maybe.

You don't know what will happen during a season and you need to have players ready.   Not having players ready that might have to contribute could cost you games.  Are you ready to potentially sacrifice a game to not burn a few redshirts.   I don't think I would see a thread started saying "yeah we lost today because we were forced to play some guys not capable of winning but it's ok we saved a couple of redshirts today we'll get Iowa next year."

Burning a 4th string qb's redshirt so he can play in a meaning less game would be stupid  because it's doubtful he'll be pressed into action, but the decisions are rarely that clear cut. 

generally speaking I do not see why redshirts are not utilized more... 

using Talbot's example:  in one hand you have a true freshman playing special teams for a couple of games, and in the other hand a fifth-year senior fully developed and trained, which one is ultimately more valuable to the team?

I guess it is because you want to have a bit quicker of a cycle, to bring in recruits?  Perhaps administration is putting the squeeze on due to the free tuition?  I don't know.  But to me it comes down to that simple concept noted above, true freshman on special teams, or vetted trained and developed fifth year senior...

Where do all the posters saying let the kids play stand on a guy like BWC then? How many people complain that RR wasted a year of BWC's eligibility by letting him play his freshman year?

Could anyone explain to me why their opinion differs from player to player on this issue?

Maybe they expected to play him more but then didnt get the opportunity.  Who is to say he wasn't second on the depth chart but just never got in the game?  Maybe his performance in practice got worse as the year went on, or didn't improve as much as his teammates so he would up buried on the depth chart.  Its terribly easy to look back and say it was wasted for 2 games of special teams appearances only when real life is much more complicated.

Not to mention, what makes you think that an extra year would be more valuable?  Maybe after 2 years he already hit his ceiling.   Being one year older does not automatically equal better

I'm sorry, but you're either being dishonest or inexcusably lazy. You say Talbott played in only two games, without mentioning that they were the first two. You question the coach's decision to play him rather than redshirt him. That would be valid if they decided to burn a potential redshirt by playing him a little in two late season games. Under the actual circumstances it's obvious they envisioned Talbott playing a bigger role than he ultimately did.

The interesting question is why Talbott didn't see the field again after playing in the first two games. If it was due to injury then he should get that redshirt.