Fitting end to the rich rod era. Worst hiring. Worst record. Worst bowl loss. Worst defense. Worst firing.
alternate headline: man does job
Fitting end to the rich rod era. Worst hiring. Worst record. Worst bowl loss. Worst defense. Worst firing.
No this is the worst firing ever
that's the BEST firing ever.
At least to watch.
I think DB handles himself and represents his university better than 99% of AD's out there. Straight up gansgta'...
Here's hoping our crazy and ignorant fan base doesn't hate him for no reason like they do our coaches.
I hope he's "straight up gangsta" enough to "make it rain" some "cheddar" all up in JH's "hizzle".
I hope he's straight-up gangsta enough to find us an effing head coach in the next week and fill out the recruiting class.
I don't hate RR, but I'm pretty close to jumping on the Dave Brandon hatewagon.
Of course, we probably wouldn't be here if RR had managed to beat that pesky team from East Lansing once or twice.
Yeesh. This is a real mess.
"Posted from fetal position" maybe be the best intro I've ever read. That made me lmaof.
Thanks for that.
At this point I wouldn't be to shocked if in a week DB announces that the head coach is Rich Rodriguez. That's how ridiculous the program looks at this point.
I think all of our heads will asplode if that happens.
...that this is all a grand conspiracy.
Pissed off that fans were unhappy he was averaging 8-9 wins a year, starting the season in the top 10 but finishing it in the 20s, constantly losing to The University of Ohio State University of the State of Ohio and getting blown out every time he went up against USC in the Rose Bowl, Lloyd Carr worked it out with Bill Martin that he, Lloyd, would retire, Martin would hire a coach from some hick town, also retire, they would work from behind the scenes with Braylon Edwards to undermine the new coach by making a kerfuffle about the #1 jersey, slow down the staff’s watches and clocks around Schembechler hall so that they would unknowingly let stretching go a few minutes too long every day, get Greg Robinson fired at ‘Cuse and, while he was down in the dumps, tell him the secret to great defence was rubbing random stuffed animals on players’ faces, convince Mary Sue Coleman to hire a replacement AD with ties to Bo who would perpetuate the Michigan Man Mafia, rely on the fact that the team’s 3 worst defensive seasons would be insurmountable, have the MMM AD fire the hick coach and then hire as the replacement coach...Lloyd Carr.
Maybe you won the Internet today?
Good attempt at "uniting" the fanbase. (sarcasm)
i completely agree
Lots of good football coaches out there who can manage better than 6-18 in the Big 10 over the next 3 years. Guessing we have a coach in place by Jan 17th.
Oh, sure, January 17th.....that's definitely not too goddamn long. I mean, that leaves a whole two and a half weeks to Signing Day, plenty of time to get two, maybe three recruits to replace the five that leave and the five more that transfer.
If it takes that fucking long I'm gonna leave a flaming bag of shit on DB's doorstep. If it takes that fucking long and we hire Brady Hoke, I'm torching Schembechler Hall.
Rich Rod is gone please support the process, what other living person would you rather have in Dave Brandon's position? He's played for UM, he's been a successful businessman, this is a tough decision and I'm glad he's not listening to irrational and angry fans like you.
Which of those two characteristics necessarily means he'll make a good decision?
Being successful in business does not mean you'll be successful as an AD. Being a former athlete doesn't do it either.
I hope he makes a good hire, but how he's handled it so far does not leave me hopeful. Telling people to simply support the process is just sticking your head in the sand.
In the end, I think a "good hire" this go around is someone that will run an offense that suits our personnel, and someone who can instill a good defensive staff. Those things happen and I think we can avoid steps backward.
All I'm saying is he has the right background to make this decision. I shouldn't be the first person to tell you that nothing is a guarantee in life. But if you're a scientific minded person like me (2008 Chemistry Alum)....you would agree that Brandon has the right credentials.
I am a scientific minded person. I also understand that athletic departments, especially very public athletic departments, are far different to run than corporations. And being a former player really means nothing, as Matt Millen has proven.
Brandon has never made a single high profile hire as Athletic Director. I don't know that he's ever actually been involved with a hiring process. Somebody who had risen up through big athletic departments would have better credentials to lead us through the process, not that the end result would necessarily be better.
Ok so Brandon has yet to make you believe in him, I'm not blindly supporting him like I believe many bloggers on here blindly supported richrod, but I'm willing to give him a chance just like I gave richrod a chance (three years). I think DB should have a chance to make this hire before we start evaluating him. If we lose a couple recruits because of it, it's not ideal, but is shows me he's making this decision carefully. Quicker the better but he knows his first priority is finding the right guy because that is the long-term solution.
By the sentiment of statements, I think it's clear what I mean, but I'll spell it out for you: I don't know that he's ever actually been involved with a hiring process in an athletics administrator capacity, specifically a coach of a high profile sport.
Being a skilled CEO does not automatically make you a good athletic director. As CEO of Dominos, the percent of the population that cared who he hired as CFO was miniscule. Not getting the guy he wanted would probably only be known by a handful of people. Obviously hiring the head football coach at the University of Michigan is a bit different.
and 10% Madman and that's one reason why his saying almost nothing of value at the presser doesn't bother me.
Especially, continuing the corporate analogy, the way a lot of people invest these days as evidenced by things like the "Cramer Effect". Most Michigan fans, good or bad, know way more about Michigan Football than lot of people know about the companies they buy shares in and fans definitely care more about coach hirings than investors care about execs.
This. Shareholders care, but outside the institutional investors, not many of them are following the day to day operations of the corporation. And even fewer could tell you if a CFO hire was a good one or a bad one. The corporate world is far murkier to the average citizen than college football.
Let me put it to you this way, how many CFO's of fortune 500 companies can you name? How many college football coaches can you name?
I think listening to irrational, angry people - or at least agreeing with them - is what got RR fired in the first place.
It pains me to say this as an M fan, but I think the fanbase here has to be a major drawback for any coach (except maybe Harbaugh) considering taking the job. The seemingly dominant faction is spoiled, stuck in the past, hostile to outsiders, and has no patience or perspective.
Here's what I suspect will happen: The toxic environment here will scare all the A-listers off, we'll hire Hoke, he'll do a decent job with what he has left after a bunch of RR's recruits bail and go 7-6, 8-5, 7-5, this won't be enough to satisfy the fans, he'll be fired before the bowl game in 2013, and we'll be right back in this same spot.
I think it was based partly on the knowledge that certain fans, keeping in mind that it's the fans who pay the bills, had decided that nothing RR could do would satisfy them and wanted him gone without thinking about the future, only about the past. This is an angry and irrational viewpoint.
Anecdotal evidence being what it is, I will still say that my own uncle has been anti-RR from the start. I had this argument with him over Christmas (and short discussions in prior months) and it's like talking to a Michael Rosenberg article. Or a Sparty (which he definitely is not.) RR's a sleaze, buyout, practice-gate, offense doesn't work in the Big Ten, chased off Ryan Mallett....I mean, every canned soundbite there ever was about RR, I heard it. Maybe that colors my viewpoint about how many fans exist in that segment of the fanbase. I love my uncle to death, absolutely, but that talk was like listening to a Buckeye.
It doesn't translate to running an athletic department. To me, a "process" implies a "plan" ... so far the process/plan seems to be "figure that part out later". If the process is to start looking for a coach today, I hope the Freep runs an expose about DB's flatulence. I'm reduced to poop and fart jokes.
On a more productive note ... Jeff Tedford, bud foster, Bo's corpse.
I'll bring the pitchforks.....let's meet at Pizza Bob's.
If we don't have a coach by January 7th, then we failed. Forget about 2 weeks from now...
Prophets of Doom
But, well, you know...
But good call!
Dave Brandon will undoubtably make a better choice than Bill Martin....If for no other reason than having learned from the RichRod years.
I feel terrible for the players, for the recuiting class, for RichRod, his coaches, and their families.
Let's set the bar on hiring coaches above what martin or Goss did for football or basketball!
What exactly is there to learn from the RR years? That's a serious question, not a fuck-you question. What is the lesson? Don't hire a bright, youngish coach with a revolutionary mind on one particular side of the ball who can shake up a program clearly on a downslide and get it back to prominence, having achieved fantastic success in having done so once already?
I sure hope the lesson isn't "hire from within" either. I mean, what mistake, exactly, was made in hiring Rich Rodriguez that could have been clearly foreseen before the hire?
The system won't seem to let me pos-bang you. So let me put it into words. Like, uh yeah.
Rich Rod wasn't a "Michigan Man"? So we get a Michigan Man like Chris Peterson or Gary Patterson?!?
There's no chance of a bad or mistaken "hire from within" now. There is no "within." The only people available to talk to the student-athletes on our football team right now are functionaries from Weidenbach Hall.
I think what people learned is the AD should not hire someone that the over 60s with lots of money do not like. Those this would affect would be any coaches that run an offense other than the pro-set and any coaches that do not have ties to Michigan. That leaves . . . Brady Hoke.
. . . and he is us.
And don't forget that the hire should meet with Drew Sharp's approval as well...
I'm 25.....but are you blaming the over 60s for richrods struggles?
Yeah, unfortunately that seems to be the case. RR greatest shift in support was in that demographic. Although I suspect if the defense had been fundamentally sound (assuming that would have resulted in more competitive losses, if not more wins), even traditionalists might have been OK with RR for another year.
And I mentioned this in a comment on another thread, but given the size of Michigan's alumni compared to the size of Michigan's student body, Michigan will never be able to get away from needing to accomodate traditionalists' perspectives.
Large B1G players, smash-mouth football, winning B1G titles, playing in the Rose Bowl, recruiting the Midwest, etc. I can't wait until he institutes the new "Down in front" policy at Michigan stadium. I thought he was a visionary and we would win national titles. I suspect he has more in common with your septuagenarian donors and a return to winning the 4th best conference but losing the world.
I want us to win the B1G, but I want us to transcend the B1G and win it all. I want to be the best in the B1G because we are the best everywhere.
But don't tear it down and start from scratch. Make sure you have a FULL proper staff in place. Don't just be wow's by one side of the ball, but make sure both sides are covered. Don't come in and be my way or the highway with the current players. Integrate. Don't be arrogant enough to completely discount the past. Don't leave you coach to fail and learn on the job, but give him some guidance, help educate him, and help and support him. And if you have all that, then you can put up a stronger front to everyone who complains, because then you've crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's.
Generally good ideas (mostly for the new coach rather than for the hiring of one), but I already see one that Brandon risks running afoul of, with his comments about defense.
DB should probably understand what the new coach plans to do with the program before hiring. You know, instead of arriving home from a sailing trip to an irate fanbase after the ship sailed (pun intended) on the number 1 (and number 2) choice, then panicking and hiring a guy that seemed like he was leaving is his current job for petty reasons and was just looking for the place that would pay the most. Let's hire a guy that wants to be here.
But my reasons maybe not exactly answering your questions were because hiring Rich wasn't a mistake. How everything was handled by EVERYONE after was.
Yes. The only think I might add is that there were many influential people who believed hiring Rodriguez was a mistake (in their opinion) and did not go out of their way to support him. Unfortunately, money talks in big-time college football programs (it doesn't necessarily rule, but it definitely sways) and the "blue-bloods" have way too much say over the direction of a program, in my opinion. That said, soon (25 years) I will be one of those blue-bloods and I'll relish weighing in on the issues of the day. Its like hazing - we're being hazed by the upperclassmen right now and soon it will be our turn to haze.
Guys that are very good on one side of the ball are better as coordinators, not necessarily head coaches.
I think the lesson is also that the coach should have shown success with multiple coordinators and turnover in the personnel. Rich Rod was never great at WVU without both Pat White and Jeff Casteel. It appears now that his defensive success was entirely dependent on his DC and that he wasn't even very good at selecting a good DC. It'll be very interesting to see how RR does elsewhere. There's nothing to prove that his defenses will be competent or talent-laden without an elite DC.
Also, knowledge of the local recruiting landscape is vital. I don't buy the argument that it doesn't matter where you get talent. If we don't recruit Michigan and the Midwest well, those guys will go to teams that we play. If we don't get a four star in Michigan, we're going to see him down the road on another sideline. If we miss out on a guy in Florida, at least we probably won't have to face him later. We obviously need to do well nationally but we have to dominate recruiting in Michigan and get guys from Ohio and Illinois, etc.
As long as they realize it. Rich probably would have been fine with Casteel. But you don't need to concentrate on your offense if you can spin gold out of thread there. Recruit talent on D, and make sure you're highest paid assistant is your DC (or OC if you're a defense guy), and then let him do his work. Don't have buddies on the other side of the ball, have killers. No one remembers the name of the coach of the Giants in the 50's...but they remember his coordinators, Lombardi and Landry.
I wish I could neg you right now because this is the exact type of shit RichRod has had to put up with the past 3 years. RichRod won a Big East title, 9 games in 02 and 8 games in 03 without Pat White. I thought this stupid shit died a while ago along with the "RichRod doesn't like local talent" meme. We have 3 out of the top 7 kids from Michigan and it would be 4 of 9 if Conway could qualify. I have said it before....I am really starting to dislike a large portion of our fanbase.
A new coach does not need to show success with numerous coordinators. That's silly. And they don't need to show success with more than one full recruiting class. If you take that position, Harbaugh should not be considered since he's only gained national attention with Andrew Luck. Using your reasoning, he's nothing without Luck.
It does not matter where you get talent. In the beginning, if you're pulling major talent from out of state and succeeding then the local kids will come eventually. Your argument is circular . . . if Michigan passes on an out-of-state kid because they don't want to see a good local kid on another team, they'll just see the out-of-state kid on the other team. Good players are good players, regardless of where they are from.
As other posters have summarized very well. The man (Rod) was a one trick pony, albiet a damn fine trick whan applied effectively, still its just not enough for Michigan.
I'd take him tomorrow as my O.C. but in order to "run the show" you 've got to run the whole show.
I think Brandon actually disqualifed Hoke somewhat today, expressing that we need to spend some $$$, Get an established high profile name who's known as a great rectruiter. I wouldnt put Hoke in that catagory.
Exactly. Hiring Harbaugh is not really any different than hiring RR. Just like RR, Harbaugh runs a solid offense, but one that is not suited to Michigan's personnel at the moment. He's young. He's had success in lesser leagues (yep, I said it), but arguably less than RR had. He has had success while working with recruiting limitations and mostly recruiting in different portions of the country. Harbaugh's resume is surely no better than RR's was.
The only thing Harbaugh has going for him is that pretty much everyone will be behind him... until he fails to get to a bowl game in the first two years.
But the point is that he shouldn't fail to get to a bowl game for the first two years, IF he can prevent too many transfers from happening. I would have expected this team to go to bowls the next 2 yrs with RR, I would expect the same with JH.
No, the point is we don't know. You make my exact point in your last sentence. You wouldn't have expected RR to fail as he did, but he did. You don't expect Harbaugh to fail, but he might.
What if Harbaugh comes in. Say Denard transfers, Tate transfers, and just to pick a couple more "spread" type guys out of a hat, Roundtree and Odoms transfer. We'd still be slightly better on offense than 2008 running Harbaugh's system, because the O-Line would at least be solid, but I'd be surprised if we'd be 3 games better. And the defense is probably not getting up to 2008 levels, either. I see a missed bowl game. Now look at the 2012 schedule: Alabama, at ND, at Neb., at OSU, we really improving with a rebuilt offensive line and young skill position players? Is missing two straight bowl games not at least a possibility?
Tate may not have any other choice but to move on. Not finishings classes will do that for you
It certainly is a possibility given your scenario. That was why I wrote "IF he can prevent too many transfers from happening." If a large number of transfers do occur, or even a few, but all at QB, I agree that we will likely miss two straight bowl game.
That is my only point. Would you really be surprised if Denard transfers if Harbaugh is hired? Tate's academic problems may lead him out the door as well. That leaves DG, with no real backup. While I think Gardner could eventually excel in a pro-style offense, I can't see it happening next year, or even his RS-Soph. year.
Harbaugh is no guarantee at being more successful than RR. You sound like, gulp, a Notre Dame fan who had an excuse for why Willingham would be different than Davie, and Weis would be different than Willingham, etc. There are no guarantees that the next guy will be "the guy."
" You sound like, gulp, a Notre Dame fan who had an excuse for why Willingham would be different than Davie, and Weis would be different than Willingham, etc. "
Yipes! I must have written my previous posts very poorly to get that. I wasn't even ready to let RR go. I do understand why DB did though, given the "Har-Baugh" chants BEFORE the Gator Bowl, and the near fist-fights between Michigan fans by the 4th quarter (which my 14 and 12 year olds are still bringing up as "sad"). I doubt DB saw those particular incidents, but they probably weren't that isolated.
If key players transfer and Michigan does NOTget to another bowl game for two years, sales of pitchforks and torches in Ann Arbor will go through the roof. The average fan 1) does not read this site and 2) will expect any coach to come in and win immediately. The 2011 schedule sets up nicely for a 9/10 win season with the existing offense in place and a new defensive coordinator making some improvement on D.
If we don't go to another bowl until 2013 say good bye to new coach and Brandon. We will still sell 110,000 tickets per game but it will be very obvious that 100,000 people will not be in the seats for each game at that point.
That's why my guess is for a new coach who runs an offense similar to what exists now.
Sorry, transfers are 100% on the coach. It doesn't matter what the situation is, if he can't keep the kids here and we miss bowl games, he gets fired. I am pretty sure that is the precedent we have set here.
Gerhart and Luck (albeit, 2 different years). I think that the biggest difference from Harbaugh '09 to Harbaugh '10 was a change in DC.
"IF he can prevent too many transfers..."
I'm guessing RR would've been to a bowl game next year...because he was returning 20 starters (Woolfolk included in that number), his 6-7 freshmen defenders would all be 20 pounds heavier, and he'd be playing with what we could finally call a veteran offense (answer this: how many of RR's years did we play with QBs that had never played college ball before?). Who knows if he would've brought in a defensive coordinator strong enough to tell him to scrap the 3-3-5. But, I had hope.
The new guy's going to have to do it with half of this years' starters and with Jack Kennedy as his starting QB. Good luck! I think we're looking at another mass exodus, and a 3-9, 5-7, 7-6 run. See ya back here again in three years to argue whether or not the new guy should get a fourth year.
Just like RR, Harbaugh runs a solid offense, but one that is not suited to Michigan's personnel at the moment.
The offense Harbaugh runs at Stanford is not the one he ran at USD, when he had a dual-threat QB (Josh Johnson). Don't assume he'd run the Stanford offense here - at least not in 2011. I hope we get the chance to find out.
A key quote from Brandon at the press conference addressed this very issue (and I was very pleased to hear it):
"One of the things that I look for is a coach who can modify their approach and their attack based on the personnel that they have."
Aargh, I miss being able to vote. The only lesson that I can think of would be that offensive scheme transitions are bad and will take some time to work. While the RR hire was bad, it was bad only in retrospect.
Hopefully the offensive scheme change aspect will work against Hoke being hired. I don't hate him, I just hate that he's supposed to be our guy at the moment.
Wishing I could plus you here. Agree 100%. We're going to get Hoke, I freakin know it...
...that DB, had he been here, would have even considered RR. We'll see what kind of a rabbit he's able to pull out of the hat. He'd better not wait too long, though.
though the process (and delay) scares the crap out of me. Clearly we are behind the eight ball, but DB made some points which give me some comfort:
1. Salary for the new coach will be no object.
2. Focus on winning the B1G is key; win that, and everything else will come.
3. Even the ball boys should be focused on defense.
4. The process will be fast, but wants to get it right. Well too late for fast, but at least at this point I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on getting it right.
5. Uniting the fan base: hopefully his selection will do that, and the back-bench sniping can be quashed (thought I am not against legitimate criticism).
Plus the fact that landing JH in December would be easier then right now given the compitition from the NFL that is now upon us.
Doubtful. JH was already a hot commodity in NFL circles by then. Also that would have required dumping Stanford before the bowl. A solid theory on why Brandon waited until after the bowls to "evaluate" is that JH was refusing to talk until then.
I don't share the assumption that Brandon wasn't trying to land Harbaugh in December. It's equally consistent with all the evidence, and IME more plausible, that he was trying and thought he had a shot but Harbaugh wasn't going to decide anything for certain until after his bowl. I also read that into the substance and tenor of his comments today about Harbaugh, but I freely concede we are all reading tea leaves here since he played it so close to the vest the last 45 days. (Which is, again, consistent with him playing out a back channel communication as so many thought.)
I didn't think the press conference was bad. This whole thing could end up blowing up in DB's face, but for the time being, it hasn't. Brandon has done enough positive things in his short tenure to incline me to trust him on this. Unless things do go poorly, I'm willing to put a hold on all criticism.
Yeah I was really worried about the focus on winning the big ten. We should make that crystal clear.
I hope the new defensive coach can make kovacs and vinopal... you know, talented. And avoid injuries.
1 and 5 are promising just because I think everyone's sick of the divided fan base. It's nice that we're willing to pay somebody in a year with no awesome candidates.
that there wasn't a coach being introduced. Took the time to watch it online, and I feel a bit better. I'm a bit jumpy about the recruiting class and next year, but I now think DB has the right long-term view that's going to serve us very well.
Funny how I've gone from exuberance on Monday night (HARBAUGH!) to fear yesterday, to hope today, but that's what's happened.
Still rooting for JIMMMAY, but even if that doesn't come true, I think we'll get someone to be proud of.
6. He didn't make the decision immediately after the OSU game because it would have affected recruiting.
...as if our recruiting will be much better off waiting until the signing deadline?!?!
What about haywood's firing and hiring or Mike price's hiring and firing?????
DB was respectful to RR, classy, well spoken, up front, and showed he's serious about saving this program. I think the did a great job and will bring this program back to the top. Don't want to sound too much like Barack Obama, but he has inherited a big pile of poop and has some digging out to do. Good start. Looking forward to a well thought out (non-hasty) coaching search.
I need divine guidance so as not to be THAT GUY who perpetuates the fanbase divide by tattooing SEE I TOLD YOU SO on my middle finger and displaying it liberally to the Rosenberg wing of the fanbase. I'm seriously-pissed-off-you-guys. I'm ANGAR. A lot more ANGAR over how this was handled than over losing to MSU three straight years or by 38 in the bowl game.
I think I've displayed great restraint thus far. I can't imagine this is what people who wanted Rodriguez gone wanted. If I were anti-Rodriguez, I would imagine that this outcome would be worse than just giving him another year. No?
Till we see who he hires.
But the way it's been handled doesn't fill me with confidence that it'll be done well.
Are you feeling worse than you thought you would when you learned that Rodriguez was fired? I imagine that the "elation" you imagined you'd feel (not that you would be happy about a guy being fired, etc.) is tempered by the circus that is CC 2011.
I was sad that we as a University had failed. I wasn't even sure he should be fired till the bowl, though I may have been leaning to get Harbaugh, or bring back Rich another year. After the bowl it just seemed like it had gone too far PR wise to work here. If he came back the next 9 months would be hell for everyone, and recruiting would die.
I'd feel better if we showed any sort of plan. As I've said, we could have brought Hoke in 24 hours after OSU and save a recruiting class if that's going to be the end result. I may not hate the end result...but even IF we get Harbaugh at this point (unlikely) I'll still think the process was garbage. And put Rich and his staff and their families through unnecessary suffering. Which is acceptable if you're doing it for the greater good of the University. But if it makes no difference, it's completely unnecessary.
Don't presume that you are somehow better than "Message Board Guy" since you are him and he is you. I'll note that there are new MGoMembers coming out of the woodworks to weigh in on the issue while all of us veterans suffered through this "CC" discussion for weeks now.
Also, we really know nothing about Brandon's search abilities and really have no reason to trust him other than the fact that he's the one handling it and we have no other choice. The "impatient masses" are voicing their discontent because people discussed Rodriguez's firing for weeks and weeks and it was basically a foregone conclusion at the time it was announced. I'll give Brandon the benefit of the doubt but he had damn well better be far along in his search. If this thing lasts for weeks, he'll be no better than Rodriguez in handling Michigan football, in my opinion. Time is of the essence!
The deer in the headlights look that DB was sporting does not breed confidence
In the end, was it Michigan?
is that Rosenberg and Snyder got what they wanted all along.
Did they come out of this whole thing unscathed just being their report was correct in the end? In my opinion, they come out looking very bad and were discredited by Brandon when he stated that a decision had not been made yesterday. But I'm sure that will not affect how they operate in the future.
But later during the conference he sort of contradicted himself, he said "we had a meeting last night, and the outcome of that meeting was reported before the meeting was over". That gave me pause...
Snyder and Rosenberg wanted a story -- and surely were pushed along by some angry anti-RR forces, which Martin should have done a much better job of addressing.
He said that he has a list of replacements that he has been workng on for a year. He knew this day was coming.
Still with the strawmen? Very few of us were "haters," and I don't think many of us delight in seeing a man get fired. Even though I support this decision, I feel for RR. He stepped outside his comfort zone, leaving his alma mater (where he enjoyed rock-star status) to come here, and it's sad that it didn't work out. I wish him the best.
This board's manic-depressive attitude toward Brandon is unreal. Back in the summer, I cautioned people not to blindly support everything he does. Now I guess I have to urge you not to blindly oppose the man. Let's just all take a deep breath and see what happens. I personally doubt that we're just beginning a search now; I think that was just political correctness on his part. All this hand-wringing over recruiting is shortsighted. The worst thing we can do is panic and make a rushed hire because we think the 2011 recruiting class is the most important thing in the world. Getting the coaching hire right is the priority.
Regardless of whom we hire (yes, including the "evil" Hoke), I sincerely hope everyone will give him a chance. If you turn your back on the new coach from the outset, you'll be no better than the jerks who hated RR from the start because of his accent.
The hire is more important than the recruiting class because this is a young team. We aren't looking for true freshmen to play in the secondary, we are looking for this year's true freshmen to play well next year as returning starters... as long as the obvious impact players are kept, I won't freak out if there are a few decommits.
Unless we're hiring a coach that changes offensive philosophies. If the next coach is insisting on a pro-style, smash mouth offense, we need this recruiting class to provide some offensive players that fit that mold.
Sir, for the first time I agree with you. Whole-heartedly so. I think the way this has played out is definitely a black stain on the Michigan "brand" in the eyes of the sports world, but I have to hope it will work out for the best in the end??
Though appearing on the Huge show doesn't exactly show good judgment...
Count me as someone who still can't believe DB would mess this up and is hoping for the best.
As for RR, while I think it was time for him to go, I'm in no way a hater -- he has always been who he is, and true to himself. My blame is on Martin, not so much for bringing him in, but in all the ways he set RRod up to fail and/or failed to make sure he would succeed.
blindly opposing DB? Everyone can see quite clearly that he waited way to late to make a decision, did not get the only coach who would have justified the firing, and now has no imminent replacement. The anger is justified toward Brandon.
You may not have followed very closely a few months ago, but many posters were so pro-Brandon it was obnoxious. No one knows how this man operates except a select few and I, for one, was suprised to read posts months ago about how great of an AD he is without anyone having seen any actual work product from him in this role.
I'd pos-bang you as well...DB was given all this veneration without proving himself...
Truth - the Brandon love was obnoxious. Other obnoxious things of late (in no particular order):
10. That a 6-7 third-year Dantonio is considered a god in the Detroit media.
11. Nick Saban. Just because.
Would +1 you if I could. People being critical of Brandon aren't doing it "blindly" or out of spite. He has handled this whole situation very poorly and we are in a terrible position right now (late to start process, NSD a month away, recruiting class under immense pressure with no chance of getting any additions until HC situation is resolved, etc.).
My criticism are based on the facts today. If it turns out he can get a tier-1 coach (sorry, not Hoke) in a week and salvage this I will of course eat my words (and happily). That said, I see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that this apparent fiasco is all part of his master plan.
Maybe I am being overly critical, but living in MN and getting mocking emails from Gopher fans saying that Brewster is available and they wouldn't trade Kill for Hoke is probably making me slightly insane
We are in a terrible postion because of Dave Brandon? No, we are in a terrible postion because we weren't winning games.
Why the binary position? We are in a terrible position because we weren't winning football games and because Brandon waited until Jan. 5 to make a determination.
We can make a good hire at this point in the game and salvage everything, it's just harder. The fact that Brandon barely seems to acknowledge that is troubling.
I just don't think DB should be taking all the blame for this when if we were winning football games none of this would be relevant. And acutally he acknowledge the retaining/firing of richrod before/after the bowl game directly in the press conference.
that the team needed for RR to keep his job? I thought the consensus this season was that the team would be 7-5 by the end of the season. The team did as expected given the deficiencies on defense and the young but talented players on offense. Most people that heavily criticized RR was because the defense/special teams were getting worse and the offense wasn't being spectacular against the better teams it played; that's an issue with quality, not quantity.
Really, after publicly showing support for Rich Rod all season, why did Dave Brandon change horses after the season and the bowl game? He shouldn't have been TOO shocked that the team gave letdown performances against OSU and MSU (NTMSU) after watching the team in its first 11 weeks and spending time on the sideline during games and practices. And why, in God's name, would he think it was a good idea to start a coaching search with 26 days before signing day? The only defense for that is the speculation that Dave Brandon has already started it, but if that's the case why not say so in the press conference? It's not like he's saving much face by introducing the new head coach tomorrow rather than today...
Really, after publicly showing support for Rich Rod all season, why did Dave Brandon change horses after the season and the bowl game?
DB didn't "publicly support" RR during the season. He was neutral. From the start, DB said he would conduct a thorough evaluation after the season ended.
Of course he kept to his timetable of evaluating the coach following the season; what I was referring to is Dave Brandon saying "I don't know how many times I have to say that I support Rich Rodriguez." (need a link; can't find it under the "Dave Brandon" tag on this site) However, in any case, I think I took Dave Brandon out of context; when he states "I support the coach" during the season, that can simply mean Dave Brandon won't fire the coach at that time.
In any case, from his timetable, he made the absolute worst possible decision he could have made between
a) keeping Rich Rodriguez,
b) firing Rich Rodriguez following the loss to OSU and do anything,
c) waiting until after the New Year to reduce the buyout, then firing Rich Rodriguez and immediately introduce a new coach (even hiring one of his assistants would have been a better option than the status quo), and
d) waiting until after the New Year to reduce the buyout (despite that he himself said money was no object in this hire), then firing Rich Rodriguez and starting a nationwide coaching search.
Communist Football, maybe we can put in our resumes into the head coaching job. That way we can rehire Rich Rodriguez and his staff ourselves. Worst-case scenario is that we resign and Rich Rodriguez takes over as the coach.
sorry I should have quoted "terrible position" from the post I was responding to. Not the terminology I would pick either but since it was chosen, I went with it. I don't think we are in a terrible postion.
...but certainly a terrible time crunch.
I'm optimistic that DB will find a good coach. But he lost 6 weeks waiting until today to make this foregone conclusion. I was hoping he'd be introducing the new head coach today.
" If you turn your back on the new coach from the outset, you'll be no better than the jerks who hated RR from the start because of his accent."
There will be one difference. They'll be hypocrites too.
I was able to log in!! posbang!!!
Very disappointed to hear Brandon speak about the need for a divided fanbase to support the new coach when he balked at making similar statements about the coach we actually had. I cannot shake the feeling that if Jim Harbaugh, Brady Hoke, Les Miles or whoever else had succeeded Coach Carr posted similar results/progress we would be talking about 18 returning starters and the excitement of seeing so many promising freshmen/sophomores developing into a powerhouse as juniors/seniors.
Who knows how the transition will turn out with departures/defections when we eventually hire a new coach, but one person who does not deserve a pass for next year is Dave Brandon. This team is loaded with returning young talent and I expected at least 9+ wins with Rodriguez at the helm. Apparently Brandon expected at least 8 this year with our young team, otherwise Rodriguez would still have a job. If this team doesn't win 9 games next year, Brandon needs to have a four hour chat at Mary Sue's house next January before she kicks him to the curb the next day.
I completely agree with.
And yeah, this is by far the lowest moment in forty-plus years of my observing Michigan football.
Right now, we've got nothing. Nothing but an Athleitic Director who is now in an absolutely desperate position to hurry up to find a new football coach. He's laid himself bare; he has to hurry. His choices will be limited. And he's also promised to pay a lot of money for a coach whose identity and whose true salary requirements are completely unknown, when the search has barely begun.
Unlike his tour de force performance in responding to the NCAA allegations, where he gave something to everyone in his magnificent press conference performance, Brandon has today given everyone -- each and every one of the now bitterly-divided factions -- nothing. (purplestuff, I do understand your disappointment in Brandon's having referred explicitly to the divisions within the University of Michigan. But it's true.)
Transfer of players? Every other reason the "cupboard was bare"? Ah, do as I attacked everyone else for doing, not as I preached.
But in any regard, I don't think it was the 8th victory that cost him his job, but the score of all 13 games. And how not close the losses were.
If Robinson and others leave, I'll give the new coach more leeway. As things stand now, I would expect him to do just as well as I'd expect Rodriguez to do with the players he has at his disposal.
At the same time, what I said has nothing to do with the coach. It has to do with Dave Brandon firing the coaching staff after only three years because he thinks someone else can do better. If they can't, then why should we support his decision?
That's a fair conclusion. Just don't punish the new coach for his failings. Punish him for his own, if necessary. I don't know till he completes it how much I agree with DB's overall decision. But I feel in any case it's been handled very poorly.
First off, I'm willing to give any new coach a legitimate chance. However, no one was patient and open-minded with Rodriguez for no reason. I was patient because he had earned the benefit of the doubt with his ability to build a BCS program from scratch (Jim Harbaugh and Gary Patterson have also earned that benefit of the doubt, while some coaches who will remain nameless do not). Then he inherited a demonstrably poor roster. Then he improved the team two years in a row and had them poised for more improvement this season.
Dave Brandon just told me and others that our patience didn't mean shit. Why should I extend him the courtesy of granting him more of mine when he's done nothing to earn it besides turn the 2nd leading pizza company in the US into the 3rd leading pizza company in the US?
We improved by record alone but we got worse against OSU, MSU and Iowa. (actually talented teams).
Just a couple posts ago you referenced our team being bad because we weren't winning games, so apparently, this-posting-tomcat disagrees with 10-minutes-ago-tomcat. Winning games wasn't enough for you before, but now improving by "record alone" is not good enough. I bet next year if RR would have coached and won 10 games but not the B10 title, you would have been pissed, right?
I've been reading your posts; you've blandly predicted, presumed, guaranteed, et cetera, that James Jesus Harbaugh was a mortal lock as Michigan's next football coach. Post after post after post after post.
You don't need to be open-minded about anything, since you knew all along that Jim Harbaugh was on his way to Michigan right after the Orange Bowl.
First of all, I think we gave more leniency to Rodriguez than we would have to the other coaches you listed. Had the coaches you listed gone 3-9 and then 5-7, they would have been gone because there wouldn't have been a monumental shift in the makeup of the program and none of them had Rodriguez's pedigree (well, maybe you could say that Miles did, but he hadn't won consistently as long as Rodriguez did).
Second of all, the reason that Brandon never made the type of appeal to the fanbase that you desired was because it would have been a bad idea. When Brandon took over, he knew that he might fire Rodriguez after the season. Making that kind of show of support for Rodriguez would not help if he was going to keep his options open. Furthermore, it is unnecessary to make that kind of appeal for an established coach when there was already the whole "All in for Michigan" thing going on. It is, however, necessary to make that kind of appeal when the fanbase is divided before the guy even shows up and is angry at the athletic department. The way that Brandon bungled this is going to rub off on the new coach unless it's Harbaugh. Brandon knows this and is therefore trying to mitigate the damage he's done.
Finally, Brandon did not say that Rodriguez was fired because he failed to get 8 wins. He said the firing was in response to Michigan's inability to improve over the course of the season, which also was an issue in 2009. This is a huge issue, and it is also one squarely on the coach. If we only got 7 wins, but won one of those games later in the season or put up a fight in some of our losses, especially the last three, Rodriguez is probably still coaching here.
I'm okay with him not showing more support to Rodriguez especially if he planned on giving him the boot, but to then spout off about a divided fanbase at the press conference as if people supporting the actual head coach at Michigan are the problem and had better get on board immediately with the new guy is insulting. If he boots Rodriguez to bring in Brady Hoke, there is going to be division because it is a questionable decision, not because of some abstract lack of unity. If he hires a proven head coach to replace the proven head coach he just fired, I don't think you'll see anyone complaining.
Every AD asks the fanbase to unite around the new Head Coach in the wake of a controversial fire or hire. And I don't think it's an issue to ask the fans to support whoever the new head coach is because the new head coach won't have done anythign wrong. I personally think that Brandon has bungled the situation pretty badly thus far and am not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt in the future, but I would give whoever the new head coach is a fair shot before calling for his firing.
Look at the startup records of Hoke or Harbaugh...add in a RR-like player exodus...and a 7-6 or 8-5 record is a reasonable best case IN THREE YEARS.
If by worst press conference you mean the decision made by Brandon, I agree.
As for hiring a new coach, well, Matt fucking Millen could win 9 games with the 20 starters returning in 2011. And I say that giving Rich credit; if Rich were the coach in 2011, we'd have 10 wins. But, we'll never know. As it is now, 2011 is another lost year and 2012 will suffer from an awful signing day next month.
Then it's hardly a lost season.
We won't win 9 next year because the team is going to melt away with attrition. That was my point.
Did anyone catch Roundtree's tweet yesterday calling Rodriguez "salty"? I was amazed that he would weigh in on this clusterf-ck. What was he thinking?
If I'm not mistaken, he was saying he was "salty" about the news, meaning he was upset.
Pretty normal reaction for a kid who's coach just got fired. I also wouldn't be surprised to see some happiness expressed by some players. No coach is universally beloved nor universally hated by the players that play for him.
I took it the other way and read it like he was calling Rodriguez "salty." I like your take better so that's how I'll read it. Thanks.
He was definitely saying that he was salty because RR was gonna be fired. For sure.
I believe he called him "Salty Coach Rod." He had a bunch of other tweets yesterday (on other issues) that were pretty cheerful. I could be wrong, but it didn't strike me as a player who was upset over the news.
Seeing how family members in the same age group tweet and use facebook, I was just assuming an aversion to commas.
I don't remember seeing "salty" used in that manner. More used to "I'm salty" or "made him salty," etc.
I could be wrong.
I agree with your take completely.
Michael Cox had some choice words for RR today as well. I don't think they were classy, but what it does seem to indicate is that a segment of the team stopped buying in. When that happens, the coach is in trouble.
What did he say? I guess when it rains it pours . . . We haven't really heard from any inside that did not like him (other than the transferers).
He said "Bye Bye Coach Rod . . . party at my house!"
Cox was buried as like the 6th string running back and probably thinks he should be starting. Him being happy about a coaching change pretty unsurprising.
I saw the tweet, I think he meant to say he was salty not RR. It would be hard for me to believe that Roundtree would be salty when he did so well in the offense. Did anyone see any of his other tweets?
This has probably been mentioned before, but in my drunken despair I looked up (yeah, I ain't got much work done in the last two daze) the hiring process for Jim Tressel, and it made me feel better...
Cooper - fired after Outback Bowl...
Tressel - hired January 18...
That's worked out pretty okay for tOSU, even if the fanbase wanted the usual suspects (I'm sure Gruden was on the list) at the time...
This information helped...or was it the Jager? Either way, I guess...
so who's our tressel?
and if you say brady hoke, i will punch you right in the babymaker.
Already produced my children, so I won't call your bluff...
I have no idea, but Hoke doesn't have Tressel's track record (even if it was at YSU - a bunch of national championships is still a bunch of national championships)...
The final four candidates were Gruden, Bellotti, Glen Mason and Tressel. Gruden and Bellotti backed out so it came down to the last two.
There were issues though, they lost some players and recruits and struggled through their first year to go 7-5 (big win was us). Then they brought in some fantastic freshman (clarett) and went 14-0 on the way to the national title. Obviously great but it was a scratch and claw - 7 wins by 7 points or less and two OT wins. Then he got it rolling and has been dominant since (8 bcs bowls in 10 years).
The classes that Tressel inherited on that first team produced 27 NFL draft picks his first three seasons. If both Schilling and Mouton get drafted this year, that will make 7 Michigan draft picks in the same time span. Only one of those guys was a first day pick and another was a punter.
And people say the cupboard was bare. Psh.
And even if we count Mallett, Arrington, Manningham, and Boren, RichRod still didn't get much.
small g, so stop praying. I'm with Lou Holtz on this one, M fans getting what they deserve (glory days are over) because of impatience, entitled attitude, refusal to really support this young team. Like a young bride who leaves after 3yrs for a BBD (bigger better deal). It never works out and M is now screwed for a long time. Maybe the next coach will buy me flowers and pick up his underwear....haha hahah hahah
Judging from your first sentence, it seems your priorities are just a tad askew. It's football. It's not life or death. Both Michigan and RR will bounce back.
Maybe you should pretend like MGoBlog is still on ultra lock-down and not post, chief.
We will suck. We will suck worse than we would have sucked with RR at the helm. That was true if this was handled well and now it is def true. We might suck for three or four more years. That, however, can't be the judge of this decision.
What matters is getting someone who can stay here for a decade or more and be Tressell-like (dominate the Big Ten, only ocassionaly compete for NCs because let's be honest thats all Bo did and all anyone can do with as little talent as there is in the state/area). Which means that as absurd as a coaching search is right now, getting the right one is more important than getting the one soon. Because we're fucked for the next year or so anyway. Let's just be good a decade from now.
That's a ridiculous statement. I know what you are trying to say, but if we "suck" for 3-4 years, I'm officially cutting all ties with Michigan (including turning in my diploma) and throwing all of my support behind Ohio State. F- it.
There may not be negs available, but the MODs can still drop the ban-hammer. Keep it clean and appropriate.
You do realize what you actually wrote above, right? I'm pissed, as are many others, but we have no choice but to accept this and hope that the situation is handled as well as it may be. I'd lose a lot of faith, but I'd never switch sides.
RR was railroaded, and it's not right, but at this point it is what it is.
C'mon. Even if the sarcasm was severe, I was clearly being sarcastic. Do I think this is probably the worst thing I've ever lived through as it pertains to Michigan football? Yes. Will I turn in my diploma and support OSU? Obviously not. Even if I was being serious, it would not warrant a personal attack of such a nature. It was inappropriate and, to be honest, personally offensive (this coming from a guy who uses the f- word regularly).
We just got done sucking for 3-4 years, and that was grounds enough to fire RR but it won't be grounds to fire the next guy too? I mean, we had exactly the guy you describe and we fired him for sucking for three years. If Tressel is the benchmark for success, we'd better be freaking magical in 2012 because that's what Tressel did.
DB has the uneviable task of determining the future of the Michigan football program for the long term. The RR era set Michigan back. I like RR but there were too many things not working out for him and yes he made bad decisions especially in selecting his staff. While our current recruiting class will be effected, I believe that it will not be as badly impacted as everyone thinks. DB will strive to select the best available coach, pay him well, and leverage his recruiting network. You can be sure the new hire will strive to keep the current players, and will contact the recruits who have committed/decommitted. Undoubtably, he will also contact some prospects that he was trying to recruit to his current school. Some players will stick to Michigan because its Michigan, some will decide to go elsewhere (Dee Hart) and some will be on the fence until the new coach is chosen. Let's see how it plays out. Remember this decision is not just about the current recruiting class. It is about building the long term success of the program. That starts with choosing a great coach. As fans we need to support the program and give DB a chance to prove that he made the best decision possible given the situation. It is too late to complain about the timeline. It is what it is. Now we need to get it right. I would not be surprised if we have a new coach by January 12th. Chris Singletary will stay as recruiting coordinator and I would not be surprised if Fred jackson will stay on as well in a recruiting capacity.
The day Rodriguez coached his first game, we had RS freshman Steve Threet as the only scholarship QB on the roster, two 4-star RB's who spent their first two seasons as distant backups to Mike Hart, a completely imploded offensive line, junior Greg Matthews, one first day draft pick on defense and 5-6 fringe NFL prospects in the sophomore, junior, and senior classes.
As of right now, the new coach is looking at inheriting two junior 4-star QB's who have combined to throw for over 5,400 yards as underclassmen, and a RS freshman 4-star recruit who got some game experience this year as well. Those two QB's have also rushed for over 2,300 yards as underclassmen. The receiving corps returns five upperclassmen at WR and a senior TE who accounted for over 2,800 yards combined this past season, in addition to a number of talented recruits. The offensive line returns three starters, Mark Huyge who has starting experience, Khoury who played most if not all of the Purdue game, and a number of 4-star recruits with multiple years on campus (Campbell, Barnum, Mealer). All but Lewan will be upperclassmen.
On defense senior multi-year starters RVB and Mike Martin return and junior multi-year starter Craig Roh does as well. Kenny Demens returns as a junior at middle linebacker. Loads of talented young players with game experience return in the secondary along with highly rated prospects Robinson, Furman, Ash, Washington, Wilkins, etc.
Anyone who says we are in a worse situation because of Rich Rodriguez is either uninformed, a liar, or a complete fucking asshole.
Whoever the new coach is will be "opening a cupboard" that is much less bare than than the one RR found.
Sorry but that simply isn't true. But it doesn't matter anymore. Still did you watch Ohio State last night? Heck did you see Arkansas? The size and explosiveness on their defenses was noticably superior to ours.
Rebuilding this defense and special teams with necessary depth will take years.
A couple of BCS Bowl teams with rosters stocked with upperclassmen looked better than Michigan did this year? That means we are doomed for years to come? That somehow relates to whether or not the Michigan roster is stronger today than it was when Rodriguez coached his first game?
I can see that MSU education has paid off.
You weren't so skeptical about the D when you had JH penciled in at HC the last couple months. Guess you were wrong. You are the wishy washy flip flopping dumb ass Michigan -so-called-fans I wish would just disappear. You know how many points I have given up by negging you?.... and come to think of it I think this is the first time I haven't.
A defense composed of mostly uppperclassmen vs. mostly freshmen, sophmore's and a few upperclassmen. Yeah, you make such a good point Nate.
In addition, I watched Pryor drop bombs on Arkansas's defense in the first half. It wasn't pretty.
Every time you speak you confirm your incredible intelligence.
Dude these are the exact same facts that DB pointed out and I trust in him a lot more than I trust in you. Get over richrod or follow him to the next fanbase.
Dave Brandon quotes Wikipedia? That MUST make his word more credible than the other random message board guy that quotes Wikipedia!
...the hypocrisy in some of you? 3 years ago, we went nuts when Coleman and Martin did a below average job at evaluating our needs and decided to overhaul our program, unwarranted and completely unnecessary. We pushed Carr out before his bowl game without any sort of plan in place to replace him. Now, it seems that Brandon is a very bright guy who knows what it takes to build something and evidently did a proper and professional evaluation of RichRod. He came to the conclusion that the current program was not going in the proper direction and needed new leadership. Unlike Coleman and Martin, he is being very prudent and patient about making the appropriate decisions in the best interest of the University and our storied football program. So let's stop bashing the guy for not hiring someone in haste just because it doesn't satisfy us diehard fans. Coleman and Martin made that mistake once and look where it got us.....let's all relax and let the man do his job; he's proven to be a solid leader thus far.
somehow, I cannot see the wisdom in firing a coach who is at the third or fourth best plausible option for the job at the current moment when the top 2 or 3 candidates have made it clear they're not interested in us.
firing the guy for the sake of firing him is fine and well if you have someone equal or better ready to take his place. when there's no one there, its flat out lunacy.
Some of us act that RichRod's offensive "genius" exists in a vaccuum and no else can coach these types of players. There are plenty of other coaches out there who can win with these kids and also not be stubborn enough to admit that something's wrong and to make adjustments accordingly. I never heard RichRod ever admit to being outcoached or ill-prepared. I'm sorry but every good coach admits that now and again. He was hell-bent on blaming the lack of execution or lack of personnel. After 3+ years of recruiting and instilling a philosophy, it's his personnel now.
its lunacy because there's no one better than him who is willing to take the job.
can you honestly look me in the eye (metaphorically), and tell me that brady hoke will be able to do a better job as head coach than rich rodriguez in 2011 and 2012?
ill put it to you this way. say you own a car which has an old stereo system in it. now that stereo system has a cd player which keeps on skipping. so when you eventually get fed up with it, do you rip the damn thing out, throw it by the side of the road, and then try to figure out what to do? of course you dont, because thats insane. you instead do your research beforehand, choose the model you want, make sure that model is in stock and at a reasonable price, and then you have it professionally installed.
People seem to think that we have to fire RR because "it can't get any worse." Believe me, it can always get worse. I am not saying that firing RR was the wrong decision. The fact that DB seems to have no plan in place is what has a lot of people panicking. I guess DB could be one hell of a poker player and lay down a monster hand like Mike McD at the end of Rounders. But right now I don't see that happening.
Do you not remember the horror, or Oregon, or four straight losses to OSU, or repetitive beat downs by USC in the Rose Bowl? The program had stagnated and slipped. Hadn't beaten an elite team in ages. The idea to tear down and rebuild the program was not unwarranted.
And let me get this straight, Carr retiring in the middle of November followed by a full scale coaching search beginning before Thanksgiving is "not having a plan in place," but waiting until Jan. 5 to make a decision is somehow evidence of being prudent?
This might work out. We might get a coach we want. But it's hard to argue that everyone would have been better off if a definitive determination of Rodriguez's job status had been determined the week following the OSU game.
I seem to have forgotten the part where we "pushed Lloyd out before his bowl game." For crying out loud, the guy retired, informing Martin of this decision before the season began. Which furthers your point that Martin didn't exactly do a swell job on the coaching search, but it's hard to say Brandon's doing a lot better. He can still finish strong (and quickly, I hope), but he's dug a big hole for himself.
...the fans, the administration, some of the old-guard absolutely pushed Carr out the door. Any denial of that is upsurd. I was part of it too. I won't deny I was part of the fanbase that wanted him to move on too but I just wanted someone who was alittle more energetic and inspired to get his hands dirty while not revamping the entire program. Many of us seem to forget that when LC was in his hay-day, we won numerous bowl games including four against coveted SEC squads. The talent was still there, but the passion and fire wasn't. All Martin and Coleman had to do was hire someone within or someone with UM ties and Mallett, Arrington, Manningham, Boren etc etc etc would have stayed and would have known the system and philosopy and we wouldn't be sitting here talking about this three years later. I said it day one and I will say it again, hiring outside of our base was the silliest thing that any of us could have hoped for.
Can we go back to Dec 2007 and start over? I had some kids along the way so I'll promise to try for twins again and all.
Rich Rod for Brady Hoke? Really?
....can people chill out about Dee Hart....he's a 4=star recruit who's a scat-back. Last time I checked, many of the same type players in our program weren't performing to well in our offense. I can only take so many times watching Vincent Smith gaining a few inches running into a pile of 8 guys twice his size wearing Iowa, Wisconsin or Ohio St. uniforms.
Stop telling people what to or not to do.
You're telling him what to do. Just sayin.
....evidently not good enough for you
That little guy Mike Hart sucked running into guys twice his size.
....but it's alittle different when Hart lines up directly behind Henne so that the defense has no idea where he's going as opposed to lining up Smith to the right of Robinson and everyone and their mother knows which way he's going if he gets the ball. Quotes from Miss. St. players..."Michigan was predicatable"
Running off-tackle left wasn't predictable? Yeah, I thought the play-calling in the bowl game was uninspired, but it got to the point where fans were predicting each and every play that Carr's offense ran based on formation alone.
I loved draw plays and screen plays on 3rd-and-anything-longer-than-7-yards.
...with you but Carr never lost 9, 7, and 6 games such as RR. Granted we lost some embarrasing games towards the ladder stages of Carr's tenure but come on, UM was in much better shape in Carr's later years than any of RR's years. I, too, wanted Carr to move on because I thought we were getting stagnant....I just did not want a complete overhaul of the program and how it was winning. Martin and Coleman, although smart people, really didn't seek enough advice from people before making an educated decision.
I feel terrible for the coaches and their families - no one deserves to get fired and have to deal with the aftermath of it all. And the media circus was embarrassing to say the least. But it's sort of hard to defend what we saw on the field during the entire season and the post-season. Let's be honest with ourselves. Denard was the high point, but no one player can make a team, and the rest of the offense was exciting but spotty when we really needed them. Our losses were BIG. Over the course of the last three years, we improved on some fronts, but only marginally. We devolved in a lot of areas, and special teams was sort of an afterthought. This isn't anywhere near an elite program anymore. We're middling in the Big Ten at best. We need a change.
Now, the way in which it was handled - and the obsession we ALL had with Jim Harbaugh - was also embarrassing. Dave Brandon learned a very difficult lesson here - social media runs the show if you let it. It isn't even about the MSM anymore. It's about who can get on Twitter first. So you better have a fucking plan in place, in stone, because everyone is watching your every move in real time. I guarantee you will never see another elite program handle it this way after what we went through.
For the past two years I have thought he was a top five coach in the country (not because of the Gator Bowl). He has mentored Alex Smith (Heisman finalist), Chris Leak (National Champion), and Tim Tebow (Douche) who are all very very different types of quarterbacks. I guarantee that if he were to come, Denard would be staying put and we would have a 5 star recruit waiting in the wings when he graduated. I think Mullen is the absolute best bet as far as winning RIGHT NOW (even better than Harbaugh) and he would hopefully bring some of his MSU recruits with him. Do you honestly think he would turn down a $2.4 million raise if we offered him the job at $5 million?
You don't throw $5,000,000.00 at someone with two years head coaching experience. I don't see how he is any upgrade over Rodriguez.
and Tim Tebow (Douche)
Why can I not +1 that?
K.C. Keeler is a hell of a coach at Delaware. He's my pick if not Harbaugh or Patterson.
Maybe we could convince the old farts that he's a "Michigan Man" since he coaches Bizarro Michigan.
From a football standpoint, I am happy Rich Rodriguez is no longer coaching our football team. Wish we had Jim locked up, but we still will come out on top here when it is all said and done.
Rich was in over his head, it was proven, turn the page.
if the next page wasn't blank. But you're right, it's inevitable that we'll "come out on top" with the next coach -- just like with the last one.
Someone completely messed up in the last 3 days. The mistake led to the crapshoot of a press conference we saw today and the coaching search starting Jan 5. Someone really messed up in order for a "top tier" team with a "really smart" AD who is really "business minded" to set course into the wilderness.
I really hope this is an illusion.
Shouldn't have called out JH to NFL - just like MSU's AD shouldn't have tweeted about RR getting fired. Otherwise, I think circumstances have overtaken DB. He may have had:
Plan A: JH
Plan B: RR comes back
Plan C: Hoke
Plan B was lost with the Gator Bowl performance, Plan A was lost with the Orange Bowl performance (NFL $$$), and Plan C was lost when floating Hoke's name last night did not meet with universally positive reactions.
So now it's on to Plan D - wide open search. Just Googling NFL.com for NFL assistants with Michigan ties, there seem to be a lot of NFL assistants who were formerly assistant coaches at Michigan. So they have some college coaching and recruiting experience, and some experience on a higher level, just no head coaching experience per se. Just another option to throw out there, besides the usual suspects.
MSU's AD tweeted that RR was fired? Wow - the inferiority complex goes all the way up to the top in EL.
As a retired corporate executive, now involved with non-profits, I can say that the transition is more difficult and humbling than I think almost anyone in the corporate world appreciates until they do it. The tendency is to think that everything can be fixed just by making good decisions; but in the rest of the world, far too many things are simply out of your control. It seems to me Brandon is learning a bit of this himself right now.
The dedication to the "process" he'd laid out is the mark of a good executive. Collect all the data, do all the analysis, and make the decision in its own time. Keep your eye on the strategic goals, and don't let tactical considerations overly influence long term decisions. That's basically what DB was saying in the presser. But CFB is not Domino's. Some tactical considerations loom very large in the ultimate strategic success of a coaching hire, and the recruiting cycle is key among these. Coaches are reluctant to spend time chasing a speculative opportunity while working 24/7 to close on their recruiting classes, or to take the heat for leaving during that period. These factors immediately limit your access to the national talent pool in January. To pry away, for instance, a Mullen right now is to risk a Kiffin/Tennessee style circus.
And if the rumored interest in Hoke turns out to be more than speculative, I think it shows a lack of understanding about how "Brand" and "Image" get created in a university environment. In the corporate world, changing your brand is, to a significant extent, a matter of money, resources, and focus. As an AD, you have far fewer tools to directly impact perception - and far more outside influences in control. When RichRod was hired, there were almost immediately a couple of negative narratives put into play - RichRod the ambitious gold-digging outsider, the unsuitability of spread offenses to the Big Ten, etc. - and much of the mainstream and even alternative media spent the next 3 years cherry picking data to fit those narratives. If Hoke comes in, the "is he qualified" narrative will dominate much of the coverage, especially if his teams are playing decent but boring football two years from now while Denard is off playing in a national championship with a Heisman back home on the shelf.
This is an exceedingly tricky situation DB has gotten himself into, and while I certainly agree we shouldn't freak out until we know the final resolution is known, it also seems obvious to me that it would have been less risky, with better chance for optimal outcome, to have made the decision in December.
That's about as good a summation of the situation as you'll see. Good work.
Normally not a "I agree" guy, but that post was do good it deserved more than a pretend +1.
..but I don't think there was an overcommitment to process here. Rather, I think the "evaluation process" was, in effect, cover to allow him to pursue Harbaugh as Plan A and bring back RR with new coordinators as Plan B -- until the bowl performance, as well as the public reaction to it (evidenced here and many other places), made Plan B infeasible.
DB was describing exactly the process he would use to, for instance, evaluate his national sales manager, and hire a replacement if necessary. And he certainly had to be aware that people like Harbaugh were out there, but there is, among good executives, a stubborn reluctance to be controlled by circumstances. Just like, say, Brett Favre stubbornly throwing into coverage.
I do think that one thing he said in the presser was telling - the bit about seeing what would happen in the bowl after 15 practices, seeing the results of that "test", as I think he described it. This tells me that he was hoping to see significant improvement in the defense, and overall sharper play, and that he was open to being influenced by the bowl result. Maybe he hoped a big game would remove the need for a firing. But there were also other hints in the presser - for instance, the list of criteria he chose to evaluate RR on - that suggest he had a particular set of concerns of long standing. Who knows, really - it's a moot point now.
You bring up an interesting issue that I was pondering this evening: How many high-profie positions did Brandon have to fill during his tenure at Domino's? Does anyone have insider information with respect to his track record of filling corporate officer level positions (e.g. CFO, COO, General Counsel, etc.)?
It would be interesting to see if he ever had to go through such a process - its not common but I do not know Domino's recent corporate history. I know from my own experience with my company that it is an extremely complex process requiring Board approval and, in my company's case, government approval. As such, if I knew that Brandon had such experience I would feel much more comfortable. But, for all we now know, he never had to go through such a process and, notwithstanding all his other qualities, the lack of such experience makes him no more qualified than Bill Martin.
Another interesting piece of information is whether Brandon served on the Board of Domino's and, more precisely, whether he sat on the Excecutive Compensation Committee . . .
Anyone have any insight??
Brandon was not only on the board at Domino's, he was the chairman--actually he still is the company's chairman of the board. He was also the chairman at Valassis and has served on other boards as well. I'm sure he's had plenty of experience hiring top executives. His Domino's bio:
David Brandon is currently Chairman, and served as Chief Executive Officer and Director from March 1999 to March 2010. Prior to CEO and Director, Mr. Brandon was President and Chief Executive Officer of Valassis, Inc., a company in the sales promotion and coupon industries, from 1989 to 1998, and Chairman of the Board of Directors of Valassis, Inc. from 1997 to 1998. Mr. Brandon serves on the Board of Directors of Burger King Corporation, TJX Companies, Kaydon Corporation and Detroit Renaissance. He serves on a number of Southeast Michigan-based civic and charitable boards including the Gerald R. Ford Foundation and the St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital National Advisory Board in Memphis, Tennessee. Mr. Brandon is the Athletic Director at the University of Michigan.
I don't think I can say his corporate credentials are lacking. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. It's clear that he treated the Rodriguez firing as a standard corporate year-end performance evaluation. I hope for Rodriguez's sake it wasn't one of those "my manager never gave me any negative feedback during the year and now I'm fired?" moments.
Step 2 will be the new coach, and Step 3 will be the national signing day salvage operation. We have a new long journey but it will be a better ride than we have had the last 3 years.
The firing looks like a disaster because it seems likely that the player disengagement under RichRod did not become visible until the Bowl Game practices and the actual game. Betting DB thougth we might be alright and he could give RRod 1 more year but when you lose the players, you lose everything.
Time to have hope, a positive attitude, and a plan to get back on track.
I am missing something, DB kept his word from Week 1 that he would evaluate the program as a whole upon the completion of the season and he is the A-Hole? I get all the arguements why it was bad timing, but he kept his word and never waivered - I find that a unique quality that should be commended in today's world right? Also - did my research on Brady Hoke, have a great friend who coached with him back in the day that told me the man can coach and overall I have been impressed with his body of work - why so negative about him?
There was quite a lot of discontent in the process before the press conference and all throughout December. It didn't just start now. I'd been defending Brandon because the signs pointed to this: that Brandon was putting off the decision on RR until he knew whether or not Harbaugh - pretty much the only satisfactory choice for 98% of everyone - would be available. If available, hire; if not, keep RR. I think this was a pretty common viewpoint, even among those who were criticizing the delay; these latter at least held hope for it. When it became clear that wasn't the case, the meltdown occurred.
True, Brandon stuck to his guns, which is usually admirable. But do you not see how this could be read as the same problem RR supposedly had: sticking to his guns and never wavering even though it's a really bad idea? And what makes it worse is this is on a much grander scale.
Except after the bowl game, the "hire Harbaugh or keep RR" meme got blown out of the water just as badly as Michigan got blown out in Jacksonville. That line of argument was permanently gone. So I guess I don't understand how it could be possible to be angry about what happened today on that basis, nor do I understand the general hysteria about the process as it was laid out in the presser.
But did the bowl game tell us anything we didn't already know? The defense is bad - that wasn't new. The offense occasionally stalls - that wasn't new either. A close loss wouldn't have changed anything that already happened in the past, and at least in my opinion, neither a win nor a loss would have had any effect on the outlook for next year either. So I don't see why the "hire Harbaugh or keep RR meme" should necessarily have been gone. Coaching changes aren't made in a vacuum and the head coach isn't a replaceable part that you can swap out and keep the whole thing running as before. I don't think we're in a position where we can afford the kind of enormous, earthshattering uncertainty that was created today.
What "enormous, earthshattering uncertainty?" Do you really expect Dave Brandon to get up and read off his short list? Is it going to make things better if we can sit here and do a full MGoVetting process of the candidates while he conducts interviews?
We're better off having this search go on behind closed doors, with ZERO credible rumors, than rampant speculation turning this into 2007 all over again, when it was fundamentally and publicly clear we were running a rudderless, aimless search, a search that got taken out of Bill Martin's hands by the end of the process because it was so amazingly botched.
Have some faith in the process. Brandon has kept his word so far. There's no reason to believe he won't continue to do so, or to cast doubt on the entire process because the MGoUniverse doesn't know anything of substance about what he's thinking.
I think you're contradicting yourself. If Brandon succeeds in conducting this search 100% behind closed doors with zero leaks, then we'll have no information and by definition nothing BUT uncertainty.
Besides, the lack of credible rumors would not ever stop there from being rampant, baseless speculation. We live in the 21st century and the days of the 24-hour media cycle, and we root for a spotlight program. And perception is reality. "Sources" will say things. The media will report it. Uncertainty is all there will be until perhaps 12-24 hours before a hire is announced.
Naturally, that's the way of coaching hires. It always is. But it's the worst thing that could happen now. The program doesn't need it. Not in January when the coaching candidates are a lot more picked over than the usual coach-firing season, and not three years after the last upheaval when we were finally settling back to earth. This isn't the NFL - you can't go through this every three years and expect the Any Given Sunday motif to kick in, nor can you choose your new players by fiat every April. That's why RR needed to be retained, or if not, a clearer succession plan should have been in place.
Why do you all think this is the worst press conference ever? We may not have learned much, but it was done professionally and by no means a bad press conference....
I mean, it was done professionally relative to a small-time press conference. Dave Brandon has been in front of a mic before. But it was baaaaaaaaaaad news. There's nobody lined up. Dave Brandon has no plan. He looked nervous relative to normal Dave Brandon.
I'm at about DEFCON 2 right now and if Brady Hoke gets hired I might just lose it completely and call into work for a week while I work out the universe.
He has no plan?
You seriously think this?
Dave Brandon's plan is to start a nationwide coaching search 26 days before signing day. Without knowing any details of said plan, it looks like an awful plan given what it can do to recruiting and even the current roster, especially given the amount of experienced talent the team has for the first time in what would have been Rich Rodriguez's tenure.
Guess we should all vent a little and try to get over it.
I was a RR supporter and would have preferred for him to get at least 1 more year. However, there was probably too much drama going on and I wonder if he could ever have righted the ship (even with a big year in 2011). Too much going against him.
I thought DB gave an excellent press conference today. It is clear that he understands there may be hits to the recruiting class and transfers, but he is more concerned with getting the right coach for the long term. A poor class in 2011 shouldn't have a huge impact on next years record, but it could affect future years. However, if he gets the right coach and the team does well next year (as it should), then future classes could be fine.
I will take the position of not getting too upset with DB for now. Wait and see who he hires as the next coach and throw my support behind the new guy (as I hope the team and all the fans do).
And whereever RR ends up, that team will become my second favorite team.
This is from an MSU fan that I know; good guy and we all know he has endured his share of instability with that program through the years. We have to realize that it might be a little longer road back then we'd like but Brandon is not about shortcuts. He knows the school can't go through this again and he also knows that Michigan has to do things a certain way both on and off the field. Here is what the MSU guy said:
With all due respect to you and maybe a little less for your acquaintence, it's my opinion that that's a mixture of emptiness and crap. I don't know what this respect of the local media is but it sounds like something that's not very important.
Firing Rich Rod during the season would have been an absurdity. Firing him in December if he was going to fire him would have been better for the program than what we have now, both short and long-term. The mess about knee-jerk reactions and merits is nonsense.
Further, making your hiring and firing decisions based on who else is available is just common sense. The job market for big-time college football coaches is a very open one with a lot of information. It's much like a sports draft: some years a high draft pick has more trade value than others.
I guess I'm not understanding the backlash here. It's been, what, 6 hours since the presser? Did you expect Brandon to be shopping deals to coaches before he fired RR? And are you really convinced he doesn't have a plan, and it wasn't outlined and put together for quick deployment before the press conference today?
"National coaching search" is not synonymous with something of epic length. I don't think it's out of the realm of reasonability that this thing is done this week. To say Brandon is going to be taking weeks and weeks to do this, or to even suggest he didn't have a plan in place, is ridiculous.
Let the process play out here. And give DB more than 6 hours before you throw him under the bus.
Even though he said at the press conference that the coaching search hadn't started yet, I have to believe that Brandon already has a short list of candidates in place who have been at least partially vetted. He's not really starting from square one here.
(or any good CEO of any business) always has a list of replacement candidates for the top positions. That is just good business. You never know when you are going to lose a key person, so you should be prepared. So no, DB is not starting from scratch.
It was always Don Canham's policy to have a list of three names for every single head coaching job in the department in case he had to make an unexpected hire. It's a no-brainer policy. And I don't know how anyone with any shred of reason could have watched today's presser and come to the immediate assumption David Brandon is stupid enough not to have a plan in place and an intended trajectory to focus his efforts in the next few days.
I think the question is, "how realistic is it to get any of those three names, starting the search on January 5? I'd say it's possible, just not probable. Look at last season. USC, who frankly, we are not, at the moment, was in all likelihood, able to go out and get their guy. Tennessee, however, had to settle for a guy with a fairly weak resume and a good name. To me Derek Dooley is Brady Hoke, and how happy would the fan base be if he's introduced as the next coach.
I think everyone is talking past each other. Some say Brandon has no plan, others say, he can't be stupid enough to not have a plan. What we should be asking ourselves is: "is Brandon's plan executable and will it lead to a successful hire?" To me, I think he's going to need a stroke of luck for the answer to that question to be "yes."
Did you watch the press conference? In my heart of hearts, I genuinely believe there's no solid plan. It's worse than the summary indicates.
You can't deduce ANYTHING from the press conference. If DB has anything lined up that isn't set in stone (which it isn't) he shouldn't be saying anything. He needs to get it in stone, then tell everyone.
This isn't an "i has the facts, i shall deduce now" feeling. This is me watching a man and thinking to myself "that man is nervous as hell right now." It was not the collected DB i've seen before.
A dynamic list sounds about right. A list of names 10 posters could come up with after a night of moderate drinking and vet a little closer in the morning.
"It's a dynamic list. It has been over the last year. You put people on the list, you get to know them a little better some come off, others go on? it's not just a hard and fast list, but a list that's evolved and will continue to evolve. With this announcement today, I can tell you already there are people, now that we're in a search mode, coming forward expressing interest. I'm going to look long and hard to see who those candidates are, and do what's best for the future of Michigan football."
For those interested, the quote above is from the following Chris Balas article: Brandon: "A Dynamic list of candidates"
God if people are coming in expressing interest, maybe tossing in a resume or something, I hope to god he doesn't have to look too long and hard to see what their damn name is OH MY GOD I'M LOSING MY MIND.
Are there regulations about how long a job has to be posted at a public institution like Michigan before someone can be hired?
that Tim (via the LiveBlog today) said that it's a week. Thus, the speculation was that there'd be an announcement next Wednesday.
(not pertinent to this particular post but over the past 24 hours I wanted to post this ( and now and again Lebron references) but couldn't because I wasn't able to access the site).
Recall the 'decision'....recall the back and forth...think Favre and Lebron....imagine my comments were amusing.
Go Blue, I support the school, the team, the program, the coach.
(please stay, Denard)!!!
From the Balas interview on Rivals:
"It's a dynamic list. It has been over the last year. You put people on the list, you get to know them a little better some come off, others go on? it's not just a hard and fast list, but a list that's evolved and will continue to evolve. With this announcement today, I can tell you already there are people, now that we're in a search mode, coming forward expressing interest. I'm going to look long and hard to see who those candidates are, and do what's best for the future of Michigan football."
Great work my friend.
to get the best available. Being a former player, he's in as much pain as any of us watching the sinking of the Titanic. He's got to fill those new luxury suites, as well. Let's just all take a deep breath and give the man a few days to work some magic. I still wouldn't rule out JH. He's pretty good friends with Herbie (see latest post) and we all may get a nice surprise. If not, I trust DB to get the next best and may be even better than JH. I also agree with him, that whomever he hires, we all need to give the new coach some breathing room to do his thing and support him fully. If he's a "Michigan Man" great, but if not, we all know where Bo came from. You can become a "Michigan Man".