W247-Malzone talks Cole, Roseboro, Lewis and BBQ
Just win baby. The recruits will follow.
I know Hoke doesn't like it and I am on record I want almost all our freshman to RS when we finally have our #s up (which is just about now) in terms of depth but good to see Clark, Malzone and Cole all interested in early entry. Makes me think Cole won't be flipping but of course until its Feb 2015 who knows.
Obviously Malzone is years away from playing and I would assume Clark won't be playing as a freshman but physically Cole seems like the one who could come in and compete. The depth at WR right now is sick for 2015 even if Funchess leaves which I assume he will be. Until they play and produce at the college level one cannot say they are contributors but the list of potential contributors at WR is very deep now for 2015
- Funchess* assume NFL
- Ways* assume 2014 RS
- Harris *assume 2014 RS
I am excluding the "faux slot" guys like Norfleet. Really you need about 4 of these guys to make a good impact to have a heck of a core group. This group also has the 1 position coach on offense who IMO is really maximizing talent.
It sounds like they told Cole he will be a slot WR so if some of these dudes hit on the outside your 2 slots are Canteen/Cole for the next 3 years.
I also think Bunting might go the Funchess route unless he puts on about 20 lbs and shows a good ability to block although a Jimmy Graham type TE would be a nice weapon, providing he is not a turnstile in the blocking arena. Butt and Clark seem more the prototypical TE types.
But none of the WRs except Funchess has done anything while in an M uniform.
That is why I said "until they play and produce at the college level one cannot say they are contributors but the list of potential contributors at WR is very deep now for 2015."
It's a pet peeve of mine when people say we are "stacked" at XYZ due to a bunch of dudes with starz next to their name when all it means is we have bodies. So hence the disclaimier I wrote along with we need 4 out of that group to emerge... I expect some to flame out and right now the class of Jones, Dukes, York being passed by Canteen immediately on paper is not encouraging. It seems like Jones is at least making a little noise but you hear almost nothing about the other 2 so I am worried they are on a Jeremy Jackson type path right now. Still young guys so let's see.
If I had to guess today with little info I'd assume Canteen and Darboh will be 2 of the top guys in 2014 (and hence 2015 if/when Funchess leaves) due to spring hype for former and last year's hype for the latter. Then if he can stay healthy you assume Harris will be a contributor in 15 and Chesson might not have the ceiling of some of the others but he seemed to begin to pick it up late last year so as a 4th WR in 2015 it's fine. Throw in Jones in there and that would be 5 WRs for 2015 and any contribution from the others is gravy. Again that is all projection - we'll know better by this Halloween on most of them.
Tons of depth. Not necessarily a lot of quality there though. For what it's worth, I think that Funchess will stick for his senior year. I think that the real competition will be Darboh, Chesson, Funchess, Canteen, and Harris. If Cole is as good as advertised, he should be able to crack the lineup. Stud receivers probably aren't worth redshirting since they peak somewhat early.
that Hoke doesn't like to redshirt? With the attrition that the program has experienced in the 2011 and prior classes and the resultant dearth of upperclassmen (somthing like only 25 juniors and seniors last year,), the program hasn't been in a position to afford redshirts, a fact which you admit ("I am on record I want almost all of our freshmen to redshirt <b>when we finally have our numbers up</>." [emphasis added])
Sorry I didnt write it clearly.
I meant Hoke doesnt like early entry.
Chris Clark is more physically ready to come in an play TE than Butt, and he started as a freshman. Butt also being the only receiving TE threat makes me think that Clark will play right away if given the opportunity. I'm not sold on Bunting at TE, he played reciever almost exclusively in HS. If Bunting can improve his speed his trajectory will probably mirror Funchess more than Butt with him split out wide more than not.
you simply can't redshirt almost everybody. Not only do most of them want to play right away, they also look at your track record for using true freshmen. A number of prospects have made this point in interviews.
I think Canteen plays on the outside, where his route running ability can be maximized.
Msu and wisco redshirt almost all incoming freshmen
And neither recruits highly touted players. That's the point.
True, MSU and Wisky don't recruit like OSU/Michigan, but by redshirting almost everybody they have the advantage of playing their 21/22/23 year-old high-level 3-stars against the 18-22 year old 4/5 stars the Michigan/OSU-level teams play with.
We (regular MGoBlog readers) have all seen the aggregate winning percentages of teams that recruit the 4 starts versus the teams that recruit 2/3 stars. It would be fascinating to see a study that compares the aggregate winning percentages of the MSU/Wisconsin/TCU-type teams that RS everybody and can play their high 3 stars with 3-5 years of experience in their system against the Michigan/USC/Florida teams recruit at a high level but infrequently RS their high-level recruits.
First the myth of MSU and Wisconsin almost exclusively getting 3 stars is just that. It's a myth. They have 4 stars they redshirt too.
Second the myth that UM is rolling out a bunch of 5 stars and 4 stars predominantly is also that. This class we are currently on is really good and avoiding most 3 stars but I did a review of the last 4 classes (prior to 2014) and we had over 50% 3 stars. Here is a post I did showing 56% of UM's last 4 classes (2010 thru 2013) are 3 stars.
That said Wiscy and MSU (under Dantonio) build depth by RS'd almost everyone. I know MSU's classes a lot better being in state but someone like Malik or Burbridge or LT they do play. Just like our high 4s/5s do. (We only have four 5s by the way and one was Kalis who didnt play as a freshman) They RS almost everyone else - and some of those are 4s. I assume Wiscy does a very similar policy.
To do this you need someone to bite the bullet early to build the depth - you really have to essentially sacrifice a year or two to get away with this because usually when a coach shows up to a program like those the team will be bad and the pressure to win to keep the job is high so they play underclassmen early even if not ready since the upperclassmen are probably not so great. So Alvarez and Dantonio both did that and now have a system in place.
I think the difference is expectation of the players - when I look at the depth charts of OSU and UM if you exclude the lines there are lot of guys without RSs on them. I think the average guy coming to these schools expect to compete right away. Most don't want to RS and most come in more touted than a guy from Wiscy or MSU. Even if its not necessarily the best thing. A lot more players at OSU and UM are in the program only in 4 years than Wisconsin and MSU. Those latter 2 schools smartly have gone the route that they get slighty worse recruits but a 21 year old high 3 star/low 4 star is going to compete very well versus a mid to high 4 star 19 year old. Obviously it is more complicated than that (you need good coaching and good system). Which both programs now have.
So this helps alleviate the difference in "talent" out of HS not to mention the fact that the difference between a high 3 and a low 4 is neglible. Player # 218 in the country and #305...well that's just a guess and doesn't mean squat IMO.
He's killing it right now in regards to recruiting alla Shane Morris. It's going to be a small class but the quality is tremendous.
Derka derka Mohammed?
It has been great to watch the approach of commits actively talking to and selling Michigan to potential recruits, especially when it seems to aid in success as it has with Brian Cole. I don't know that this same sort of thing happens or reaches the level of maturity that it has if this staff didn't create the family-style atmosphere that they have in Ann Arbor. I know we, as a group, are perhaps mostly in agreement that a good season this year is essential to sustaining that sort of recruiting momentum, but the culture of this program definitely does not hurt our chances with any given player.
This guy is confused by your implication.
As dumb as the previous post was, Desmond was the 4th overall pick. Not sure how he applies here.
His main idea was that our recent receivers have not been up to his standards because they weren't MAN-SIZED. I saw his NFL draft argument as a bit of a tangent, and a completely meaningless one.
...than Gallon was.
Sammy Watkins isn't going to be the best WR in the draft because he's too small.
You're exactly right, the comment was ridiculous. Unfortunately this time of year you get this idiot people who don't know what they're actually talking about.
If somone gets negged past -10, their account should be automatically suspended for one day per point. -30 gets you a full month.
At least July and August should be moderated like that to get rid of these crazy comments. Same with with the "Long Dave Brandon" thread.
Get these people out until the season starts and they've had their medicine.
I'll take J Gallon on my team all day long. I would not be surprised to see him carve out a nice NFL career with the right offense. He is a real gamer.
Wow I wish I could donate all of my MGoPoints to neg this. Did you seriously just imply Gallon was not worth it? He's one of the best damn wide receivers Michigan has ever had. Ever. EV-ER.
You cannot seriously think that because he went in the 7th round of the draft that this somehow makes him a failure at Michigan. You cannot be that dumb
who never did anything at Michigan either and somehow fooled Belichek into letting him play QB.
to Michigan's single-season receiving yardage record holder.
Northfleet sucks. Now, Eastfleet, he's pretty good.
no one would be complaining about our record.
Jeremy Gallon set the single season receiving record without the aid of an offensive line to protect the QB
How dare you make fun of the little guys! MGoBlog will not stand for this!!
Gallon and Desmond now that's a short list....oops!
AC off the list!
I suppose his size and draft status would not work for you either?
Yes becuase Mike Hart played the slot/wr
the staff is bringing in. They seem to be bringing in kids with leadership, charisma, and smarts to go along with the physical stats. I think that is why you see certain kids drop off or not get recruited. Winning obviously will only help Michigan keep that standard. WR are always going to play some frosh but I think we are getting to the point our depth will allow us to start RS more kids.
Looks like Weber is going to make it out as well
Just curious, why is Funchess going pro again? I think that is a little premature to be making that type of statement.
Who said Chesson has a low cieling? His own coach has talked about how high his cieling is, and he is one of the few that actually stretch the field. We all know he is a devestating blocker, but I think the sky is the limit for him. Lets not forget, he only played two years of high school football coming to UM.
Funchess is projected in most mock drafts late in the 1st to early in the 2nd. Generally you are going to go if you are projected there. Same for Calhoun and Waynes at MSU. I'd be surprised if any of those 3 return for their senior years.
Chesson is just my opinion not any sort of general view. He probably could be the best blocking WR in UM history by senior year if early returns are any indication but I was expecting more speed out of him last year based on the reviews. He also looked pretty lost until the last 2-3 games... maybe that has to do with his lack of experience. Obviously that can change in any 12 month period but considering Darboh was projected ahead of him 12 months ago and Canteen is talked ahead of him with just a few months on campus his ceiling seems lower.
I have this funny hunch he goes Blue very soon.