Vince Young, The Spread, And What It Means for Michigan
I figured I would try and start a thread that had nothing to do with predicting how long until RR was gone, how stupid Dantonio and his players are, or when Jesus would be the coach at ND. So, here it goes. Last night, I was sitting around watching NFL Live. Even though I cannot stand Trent Dilfer or Tim Hasselback, they were discussing the resurgence of Vince Young and the increasing use of the spread offense in the NFL. It got me wondering, what does this mean for Michigan? One stat that blew my mind was that in 2003 32% of passes were thrown from the Shotgun and today over 52% are being thrown from the shotgun. One of the key points that they made was that, this is what that the newer quarterbacks in the league were more comfortable with the spread and shotgun coming out of college, they even used Dennis Dixon's zone read run that he took for a TD against Baltimore, on Sunday night, as an example. This got me more excited for our program than I already am.
RR came into M with the reputation of running a run-first zone-read offense. However, we all saw with Tate, that RR has the ability to throw the ball and get it out into space with his WR's. With DG coming in and this new found fad in the NFL of running spread what do you all think this does for recruiting/our program over the next few years, now that kids see that, the spread isn't just a gimmick offense used at the college ranks?
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:04 PM ^
It's good.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:10 PM ^
Also anybody who thinks the "spread offense" is not used in the NFL or calls it a "new found fad" as you put it, has not seen the Pats play at all this decade.
So either Dilfer and Hasselback know about as much football as Rosenberg or you misunderstood the conversation.
Anyway, as long as it made you cheerful, its all good :-)
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:12 PM ^
blows my mind how stupid some people can be that think they're big nfl fans and don't realize this.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:16 PM ^
Not exactly correct. You're right about the passing game use of the spread, but the use of a spread orientation in the running game is relatively new in the NFL.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:19 PM ^
I should have been more elaborate about what they said...I tried to keep the size of the post down and tried to hit on some main points. They also discussed how the spread allows QB's like Young and Dixon to use their legs. That's why I put the example of Dixon's TD run. I don't think I misunderstood the convo, I was just trying to avoid making the fellow MgoBloggers read a ton of stuff just to make some points and start some open ended speculation. Next time I will add full context to avoid this.
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 PM ^
FWIW i remember seeing a statistic during the Pats saints game that showed the NFL trending towards shotgun and showed that Brady has taken over 70% of his snaps from the gun.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:10 PM ^
both have always baffled me. the first is saying that the spread offense doesn't work in the nfl. whenever somebody mentions this i always ask if they've watched the freakin new england patriots. their offenses isn't just a variation of the spread, it's a full blown spread attack. and please don't say tom brady isn't a running qb so it can't be bc you'll be an idiot. the other is saying that rich rod has a gimmick offense and only a running variation of the spread. obviously a person with this belief has a very limited knowledge of college ftball and doesn't know about rasheed marshall at wvu and rich rod being the off. coordinator at clemson and tulane. i lay in to people every time i hear these stupid statements.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:11 PM ^
That's why I like watching the Dolphins. They run a wildcat spread that is fun to watch.
The Dolphins are 3rd in the NFL in average rush yards.
In addition, there are a number of Michigan starters.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:13 PM ^
The NFL spread use has been all about the short passing game and getting YAC (yards after catch) on short passes that negate the effect of massive blitzes and pass rushers. What might be more of an indicator for RR's type of spread offense is the use of the Wildcat type by various pro teams to, in essence, counteract the defensive changes which have put a less of a premium on size and more on speed and the various nickle and dime packages. It is the age old change of offensive philosophy that dictates defense changes that dictate offense changes and on and on. The three poles of offesnive football have always been around power and speed and deception.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:14 PM ^
In the NFL, for the most part, it is still pro-style pocket passing whether the QB is in the shotgun or not. I just don't see a whole lot of spread zone-option reads in the NFL anytime soon other than Vince Young.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:41 PM ^
Spread not equal to zone option.
Spread means exactly what it sounds like, whether you are talking about some broad's legs or the placement of players on a football field. What you do after said "spread" is completely another thing.
As far as the "option" is concerned, nothing new here either. You don't think Manning has been exercising his "option" to freaking do whatever the hell he wants once he sees the defense line up for 6 years now? You don't think Brady decides to check out of a run when he sees single coverage on Moss? How are these things not options?
NFL QB's have been "reading" the defense since the days of Madden actually having some marbles in his giant head.
The only thing new is the change of view among football watchers that when the QB starts to run it is no longer a bad thing.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:46 PM ^
option isn't referring to the qb being able to check out of the play and call something different. it's the actual option hand off, either the qb keeps it or hands it off. i believe the following is correct:
- zone read refers to the blocking scheme
- spread refers to the actual formation (players spread across the field)
- option refers to keeping the ball or handing it off (somewhat extreme examples is the triple option utilized by ga tech and navy).
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:28 PM ^
Point being, the fact that 52% of passes in the NFL are out of the gun does not mean that NFL teams are running Rich Rod's offense. This will have no effect on Rich Rod's recruiting.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:39 PM ^
I love how misused the term spread is. As if the pro-style offense doesn't try to spread out defense or something. And, in the mother of all ironies, Paul Johnson even said that his triple option offense tries to spread out the defense so they can come back and hit the big pass play. Imagine that! Even the triple offense spreads out the defense.
But I see what the original poster is going for - I think he's trying to say that NFL QBs are using their feet more. While the NFL has used spread passing attacks, I agree that the NFL hasn't seen much QB involvement in the running game.
IME, the reason for that is that the NFL QBs probably couldn't take the beatings on a regular basis.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:49 PM ^
is the QB running on a regular basis. The QB in the NFL is way too valuable to risk the pounding, much less the injury possibility that a QB would get in the pros. A Oklahoma or Texas version of spread is much more likely. The key part of "spread" is spreading out the defenders, not running the QB.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:49 PM ^
I don't see an option-style attack out of the spread that encourages the QB to run happening anytime soon, because the teams need to protect their "billion-dollar babies" from injury.
I do, though, see more use of spread formations, ala the "two-minute offense" or spread-option progenitor "run-and-shoot," more roll-outs, and more running plays out of the shotgun. And I do see the QB run as a "bail-out option" becoming more popular as statuesque QB's become the exception rather than the norm.
In ten years, the QB lining up under center may be as rare as 10-7 games are now.
And that, of course, would be good for a UM team running the spread, because it would negate any recriuting advantage that pro-set teams currently enjoy among kids with NFL dreams at the QB position.
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:38 PM ^
At its core, the spread is simply about getting skill players in space, and this has clearly been a trend for a couple of decades now through various schemes.
But as others have pointed out, RR's schemes depend heavily on a *running* quarterback. The talents required to be a good running quarterback are often mutually exclusive with the talents required to run a pro-style offense. Hence, to be effective an NFL team would have to move whole-hog to a running spread scheme or else become a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none. I simply doubt many GMs are willing to make that committment (maybe the Lions should give it a shot). As more Vince Youngs, Dennis Dixons, and TPs enter the NFL, perhaps we'll see more NFL teams adding running spread packages to the mix. Maybe we'll hit a critical mass, and someone will take that leap to running a RR-style offense exclusively.