What an absolute jackass. Rutgers better fire that guy. That's a joke that he hasn't been already.
Video of Rutgers basketball coach abusing players.
He was suspended and fined in December. Also, this: "In addition to Rice's physical actions seen in the practices, Rice calls Rutgers players "fa--ots," "mother----ers," "pu--ies," "sissy b-tches," and "c----," among other epithets." -- http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/9125796/practice-video-shows-rutgers-basketball-coach-mike-rice-berated-pushed-used-slurs-players
C--- is one of my favorite words. I don't see why you have to lump in naughty words like mofos and c--ts with bigotry like f------.
Yeah, and those players should be allowed to leave without consequence if they choose.
Oh wait, if they did they would lose a year of their eligibility. Logic.
On their way out the door, they should be allowed unlimited dong punches on that dude.
In terms that he can understand, he's a fucking douche.
So glad our conference decided to pick these guys up! /s
Holy shit. That's not tough love anymore, that's taking your job as a power trip. Guy ought to get fired for sure. Honestly, I'm not sure how they could have seen all of that and just suspended him privately. Could that really have done anything?
Even OSU once knew that after Woody punched a player they had to fire their HOF coach immediately. Granted they seem to have lost some perspective with tat-gate but a coach putting his hands on a player like that is inexcuseable.
Even OSU once knew that after Woody punched a player they had to fire their HOF coach immediately. Granted they seem to have lost some perspective with tat-gate but a coach putting his hands on a player like that is inexcuseable.
Woody punched an opposing player.
I don't really see why that should be an essential difference, assault is assault, but the "it's just tough love" arguments from the people that think this was OK don't apply at all when you go after players on the other team.
Also, it was caught on live TV. Rutgers probably didn't think this footage would ever get out.
Bobby Knight would be proud.
This dude makes Knight look like a saint!!!
you don't know Bobby too well. or Coach K for that matter
it's fairly common knowledge that K is a grade A hard-ass bastard when the cameras are off. He is a Knight decipel.
abuse is not what I intended to imply
I have no problem with coaches who are tough. Physical abuse, however, is beyond what is acceptable.
I actually have not heard that. A Knight disciple in many ways, yes, but not in terms of the negative stuff that people usually associate with Knight (which, as a poster below points out, is sometimes inaccurate and even misleading).
I've actually attended a Duke practice, one that was not open to the public, and the Coach K that I saw was nothing like the negative stereotype of Knight or this Rutgers joke. Actually the most surprising thing to me was how little Coach K said and did. The practice was almost machine-like. Everyone knew where to go, what to do, how long to do it, where to go next. I walked out with kind of a "whoa scary efficient" feeling more than anything else.
swears much more than the cameras ever catch. Swearing a lot is different that verbally abusing players which is what the Rutgers coach has done.
Coach K once broke all of my fingers right before my big piano recital.
So how did it go?
Knight threw a student in a trash can. If we saw footage of his practices at IU, I'm sure we would have seen this kind of behavior. But that doesn't make it right. No coach should act like this.
Nearly twenty years later he grabbed an IU student hard by the arm, which was the action that led to his firing. Please keep your stories straight!
Bob Knight treated many reporters with contempt, and in return most couldn't stand him. They reported things that other coaches routinely got away with (profanity, rants, etc). Much of Knight's bad reputation is well-deserved, but it's important to understand that that reputation is also based on what you hear from the media. He was arrogant, articulate, profane, single-minded, and prone to anger, though a lot of the stuff he did was quite calculated.
His coaching style was direct and could be very negative. In that, Knight was really no different in that respect than most coaches of that generation. Bo Schembechler was a longtime friend of Knight. Canham was a longtime friend of Knight. They surely understood a lot about his coaching approaches. The recruits and their families understood what they were getting into when they signed up to play for Indiana. Knight was very honest.
Knight's teams at Indiana won a ton of games, and his teams often performed far better than the sum of their parts. He ran a clean program that graduated kids at a fantastic rate, kids who went on to successful careers in and out of basketball. Off the court, Knight was heavily involved in charity work and regularly visited hospitals around the state. Abusive bully and generous with his time and money, that's Bob Knight.
By the mid to late 90's, there was a sense that he was slowing down as a recruiter and he had a couple of disastrous classes. Some felt his methods weren't changing with the times - certainly I had that sense. Knight's arrogance and obsession with winning must have made those mediocre seasons especially frustrating. Poor seasons also eroded the tolerance Hoosier fans had for his outbursts. I was upset when he was fired, even though I was tired of his antics. I've gotten over it years ago, and I'm sorry that he won't reconcile with IU.
As an IU alum from the glory years, I get why people couldn't stand him, but I also really enjoyed watching Knight's teams develop, and I enjoyed the reflected arrogance - mostly he was hated because his teams were better - and better coached - than most teams he faced. I always thought there were strong parallels between IU basketball and Michigan football.
What's weird about the Rutgers video is how dated it seems. Why would a kid in the 21st century put up with that - especially for a losing program like Rutgers? I have to add that Knight's rants were not much like that. His profanity specialized in the scatalogical. As far as I know he avoided abusive female or gay terms - very progressive in a sense, that Bob Knight.
In regards to Knight avoiding abusive female terms, you may want to google "Bob Knight Connie Chung interview" before you go too far with that argument.
Not defending what he said, but my point was that this guy was hurling a different set of insults at his players.
Except we did see footage of Knight's conduct in practice, when he choked Neil Reed.
Looks like Kenny Powers teaching gym class.
I can't believe no one has decked him. I would've for sure. And I don't have the advantage of being 6'10". Not only is he a dick, he's an idiot.
He has all the power. If they throw a punch at him, there goes their scholarship. And if that scholarship gets taken away and the kind tries to transfer, the coach can start making phone calls about how the kid is a bad teammate and thus sabotage any chance he has of landing at an equivalent place.
I still don't think I'd be able to resist. I know an article mentioned his actions have resulted in at least three transfers.
If people think he should get fired, that's fine, but I didn't think that most of what was in that video was all that bad. And I assume that video included the worst stuff he did.
What? In what way can this possibly be condoned? He's obviously using his position of power to abuse his own players. It obviously hasn't translated to wins on the court. Who will possibly allow their child to go play for this guy now?
Not only should he be fired for being abusive, he should be fired for practical reasons. No one will want to play for him, and he isn't a good coach to start with. What if a Michigan coach was caught on camera doing this? I would be ashamed.
I won't argue with firing him for basketball reasons. And I haven't followed this story so if there is other stuff not in the video, I don't know about it, but I don't think it was that bad. When I played basketball or football, my coach would grab my jersey and above me to where I was supposed to be if I was in the wrong place.
The throwing of the basketball is a little much, but outside of the head shot none of those would hurt, and remember that most of these dudes are huge.
I'm not taking a stand in his defense or anything, I'm just giving my opinion of the video and I didn't think it was that terrible.
He's obviously not moving people into position.
Dude, he is a college basketball coach in charge of coaching student athletes. You can't throw a basketball at a player's head - not even once. That shit is unacceptable and when taken in the context of the rest of the footage paints a pretty shitty picture of what kind of coach and person he is.
I don't think in the eyes of the law, or common sense for that matter, "it didn't physically hurt the guy" is an argument that hold up very well. I played a lot of sports and have dealt with lot of coaching styles, from pathetically passive to extremely aggressive (good ol' Michigan high school football coaching legend Chuck Lori). I've seen coaches put their hands on players in the heat of competition. It's always a shock when it happens, but in most situations (which a few and far between), it's a one off occurrence that just happens and is clearly not done with malintent.
To do what that man did so many times on that film and clearly was done with utter disregard for the kids he's trying to turn into young men is appalling and does absolutely require swift and harsh punishment. You forget, being a coach on any non pro level is not purely about results on the court. This coach is setting a horrible example to his players for how a grown man should behave and is an embarrassment to his school.
I don't condone his behavior. But hell, I had a number of coaches who did just this. Cussed the entire practice, grabbed you by the shirt/jersey, threw a ball at you, belittled you. Anyone who is saying this is horrible has never played a contact sport. Had a coach make us run at halftime once until someone puked. Coaches scream, coaches throw stuff, coaches act like asses, so either deal with it or dont play. The only reason this story makes national news is because he coaches for a large university and has players that think they deserve special treatment. The John Beiein way is always better.
His players don't want special treatment, they want to be treated like human beings, not dogs or cattle.
Your line of thinking is archaic and silly. Because it happened for years means its ok. nope.
His verbal abuse was worse than the physical IMO. Shows a lack of maturity for some supposed to be helping kids become grown men. Lack of intellect as well. Some of these kids are getting their first exposure to quality coaching. And some I'm sure didn't have father figures growing up. And Rice is totally forgetting about the players when he is acting like this.
I have played contact sports, and this is horrible. Seems like your coaches were all fucked up but you never realized it because you thought it was normal. It isn't.
I've played a lot of sports and this is pretty weird stuff. I've had coaches yell and scream at me and even kick a ball or two at players. If you can't deal with verbal abuse, don't play sports, but this physical stuff is crossing the line. Directly kicking a player or pushing/punching at them is grounds for a good old fashioned ass whooping.
I played a contact sport. I think it's horrible.
Part of what I love about Beilein and Hoke is they seem to be so consistent in their ability to control themselves and see the bigger picture of life. And I love that their aim is to raise up not just athletes, but quality men, husbands, fathers. Sometimes that means being firm and getting in people's faces. But it is clear this dude is not in control of himself. Glad the student athletes at Michigan have better role models to be shaped by.
I thought the physical stuff, with the exception of the ball throwing wasn't that bad. Maybe the time when he put a forearm in a guys chest and walked him backwards 10 or 15 feet, but other than that, I don't think it was out of bounds. Throwing the ball on the other hand was over the top, even when he was simply firing the ball at the guys feet. Throwing the ball at the guys head was a fireable offense in and of itself.
Also, I don't think there's any place in college athletics (or anywhere for that matter) for homophobic slurs. Just like I don't think there's any place for racial slurs. The rest of the cursing and yelling, fine, a lot of respected coaches could be filmed saying the same things. But saying what he did crossed a line.
Your opinion is wrong.
After watching the video, would you want your son to play for him?
Would I prefer him over most coaches? No. But would I be up in arms about it if my son were on the team? No, probably not.
You are certifiable. After watching that video, letting your child anywhere near that guy as a coach is practically child abuse.
Please add this to the list of reasons I think you're a moron.
he kicked a player and chucked a basketball at another players head. That seems pretty bad to me, even if you're willing to excuse the other stuff.
You fogot the "/s".
Aside from abuse, he's not representing the university well. If I was Rutgers alumn I would ask for him to be fired.
I know old school coaches (Knight, Woody, etc.) acted this way and got away with it because they won. Now days kids shouldn't have to put up with it - rightfully so.
I have no respect for anyone that uses the word f-aggot in a derogatory way directed at an individual or group. That itself is worthy of a fine for any public figure IMO. I don't think the grabbing of players by the jersey is that bad, my coaches did that with me in high school and I never felt threatened or belittled, but maybe I was too naive to be. The name calling is unbecoming and unacceptable of any employee at an institution of higher learning, no matter what the job. Throw in kicking and chucking balls at players heads and he deserves to be fired. And I know Rutgers is not a juggernaut in bball, but the guy is not faring well on the court either. No improvement over his predecessor really so I don't know why Rutgers would hang onto him.
Put your hands on my sons and I'd beat the shit out of you by suing your ass and getting you fired.
What kind of parent would sign a LOI with their kid so he can play for a guy caught on tape throwing a basketball at one of his players heads while (or in close proximity to) screaming that they're f--king f---ots? What possible positive impact could that kind of behavior have on a college athlete?
Well, no offense, then don't let your sons play a contact sport, at least past middle school. I don't think I went through a full football practice without my coach pushing me around a bit.
So? Just because your coaches did it doesn't make it ok. If the coach is showing you how to do a drill, then fine. But Rice was dragging and pushing them around like animals and that is not cool.
I'm not saying every coach is like this guy, but most football coaches get physical with players. And if that guy is gonna sue his kid's coach every time he touches them, well, he's probably going to embarrass his kids quite a bit. That's all I'm saying.
There's a way to do it and I believe the poster is not saying, though not explicitly stated, that any touch is worthy of a lawsuit but the kind that Rice is doing.
Sorry for not adding the 'like that' to my sentence. You're way off base.
Do you have kids? Serious question.
Bo, Mo, Lloyd nor any other coach at Michigan laid hands on a player like this asshole. And I guaran-damn-tee you none of them threw a ball at a players head or used the word "faggot" to demean a player.
Now calling them a "pussy" is a whole nother argument.
Your opinion is wrong again...
It appears you're right. Sure is hard to have a dissenting opinion on anything around here.
Don't try to be a martyr. Dissenting opinions are welcome, even yours. It's just that your opinion is really stupid, so lots of people are going to let you know. That doesn't mean we're trying to censor you or something.
For the record, my high school coaches also swore constantly. I don't think using naughty words is the problem here -- it's directing them at the players personally that is the problem, along with how it reflects on the university to have an absusively homophobic person in such a high profile position. I also agree to a small extent about the physical stuff; physically moving players where they need to be is categorically fine, but his style of doing it was very close to the line. Then the other stuff like kicking a player or throwing the ball at folks is obviously way over the line.
I played football in Florida. My coaches "moved me into position." They convinced us water was for "pussies." They roughed us up from time to time and said jacked up stuff. It was f*cked up, and they eventually got handed their asses because one day they ran us until a kid fell from heatstroke.
Just because something happens doesn't make it right. At the time I accepted it because it was a way out, but looking back it just pisses me off.
Dude I played hockey for years all the way through midgets at a high level (AA and AAA). The above happened ZERO times. That behavior is not justifiable or excusable in anyway.
You do realize you were playing youth sports for all of those levels. As a minor. In a paid setting.
There is a helluva big difference between pushing youth kids around and adults that willingly joined his program on scholarship.
Not saying I want my coach acting like that but I didn't once see him hit anyone. Physical? Yes. Abusive? Not in my opinion.
Sorry I was calling out the guy for implying that I was not going to allow my sons to play contact sports because I don't want some prick putting their hands on them in a harmful way and/or throwing balls at their fucking heads.If that's how you want to raise your kids go ahead.
And yes their is a one year difference between a high school senior midget player and a college freshman that makes them underage vs legal. However, you can't be implying that accepting a college scholarship allows oneself to have BALLS THROWN AT THEIR HEADS! I mean seriously?
They are your kids no matter how old they are. But they also turn into adults.
If they are playing basketball at Rutgers, they are also adults.
I don't know why poeple think adults are not able to defend themselves or make decisions to leave bad situations. I don't have kids but I'm not going to be a loser helicopter parent that gets mad because his coach grabs my son's shoulder pads and tells him to get his ass in line because he's fucking around.
But I digress...my comment will soon be minimized anyway.
On a related note...I'm in Florida visiting my parents and saw a dad throwing balls at his kids heads in the pool. They were having a blast.
Dad w/kids = belligerent coach w/players? Ok then.
That doesn't even make sense.
I'm just saying stop comparing these adult college division I 18-23 year-old athletes to kids that are under 18. Additionally, these players are not indentured servants. Can't handle it? leave.
It's not even apples to oranges to compare adults and children....
Dad w/kids = belligerent coach w/players is your comparision not mine (remember your pool quote from one post above?).
You seriously have no idea what you're talking about if you think that coach was not over the line. Also, yeah a kid on scholarship with a future planned should just leave cuz he can't hang dude??? Wow.
He clearly kicks a player near the end of the video. Also, I'm not sure what the distinction is between hitting a player in the back of the head and hitting him with a basketball in the back of the head, but I don't see a bit of difference.
Come to think of it, the basketball might be worse in some respects since he gets to throw it from ten feet away and not make a one-on-one physical challenge.
I don't agree, I guess agree to disagree.
He's an asshole for sure. I'd probably fire him because there's no way he can recruit after that, but not for being excessively physical in the video.
but agree to disagree on what? He did hit a player in the form of kicking him, he did hit a player with a basketball in the back of the head. It's on the film above.
Take from that what you will (and I wasn't advocating anything particular in that post) but he absolutely hit his players on at least two occasions in that video.
Agreed with ya, LA.
I hate that mildly dissenting opinions are banished to minimized comments so easily. CMON BRIAN LET"S GET MGO 3.0 OR WHATEVER UP AND RUNNINGGGGGGG!!!!1
There's having dissenting opinions and there's being a dumbass with a dissenting opinion. When 99% of others are telling you you're in the wrong, I think that speaks to something, and it's not about others. Stop trying to act like the victim. There's no place in coaching for what he did.
So a dissenting opinion is only OK when enough people agree with said opinion? Is that right?
And me having a minority opinion isn't cool, but others (including yourself) calling me names and/or insulting my intelligence is? Got it.
I didn't attack anyone, I didn't tell anyone how to think, I didn't call any names. I just said I didn't think the video was that bad. That makes me a dumbass?
I don't think name calling is cool. But I don't think your opinion is either. Because I just find it incredibly off base and you haven't been able to defend it well IMO. I agree that it's hard to have a dissenting opinion on here. People jump on you incredibly fast if you go against the grain. Which is why you better be able to back it up.
Back up what? I'm not talking a stance and I'm not trying to prove a point. I'm not trying to convince anyone else. I just said it wasn't that bad. Nothing to back up. I watched it, and I was less enraged than most. End of story.
Saying you didn't think it was that bad - that is a stance. That is an opinion. That is your take. I don't see how you don't consider it one. Opinions are typically formed by something - past experience, facts, stats, research, observation etc. Saying your opinion and then acting like it's just as credible as everyone else's without being able to defend it is silly. You're trying to play victim and I just don't get it.
His opinion is as mildly dissenting as driving down the wrong side of the road is mildly incinvenient for other drivers. You two have different opinions that are drastically off from the majority. You are welcome to share them, and we will absolutely accept them with open arms because it creates the type of conflict that makes any disagreement a bit fun to have on tge board without crossing any line. However, don't be so surprised when you get fake negged to -1 when you are pretty much the only ones on an entire thread with an opinion that others feel is wrong on so many levels, especially a topic like this that can stir up some strong emotions.
I couldn't care less about the -1, but I felt an opposing opinion should be able to be brought without the namecalling. I think that's an immature way to handle an argument, regardless of how strongly you feel on a certain topic. The reality of it is, MGoBlog never has been a good spot for healthy debate, so I shouldn't be surprised today.
Really? If he treated one of my kids that way I'd stomp a mud hole in his ass.
It is NEVER acceptable for a coach to say "you're a f---ing f--ry, you're a f---ing fa--ot". That single outburst alone is enough to justify firing the guy.
Coaching is about so much more than teaching the game. It is about developing young men and women.
You would NEVER see Coach Beilein abusing his players like that. Likewise for Brady Hoke. Both these men understand that when you are a coach you have to lead by example at all times. You always have to act as though your players are going to model themselves after you.
The Big Ten is no a place for a coach like that. That guy's coaching style pisses me off so much, I could just throw a chair:
Jokes aside, I did get a little sick to my stomach watching that. There's passion and pushing your guys to their limit to extract their full potential, and then there are cowards with no impulse control. The latter has no place in sports, let alone society.
I can trust the coaches we have
I mean, it's not like Rice was building a powerhouse or anything. He's a mediocre coach that hasn't won anything ever at a mediocre school. As soon as that tape came across Pernetti's desk, he should have been in Rice's office letting him go.
More than anything else, I think this shows Tim Pernetti's true character and ineffectiveness as a leader.
a nice, well rounded individual.
Not to mention mentally stable and emotionally mature.
Who would play for this guy?
No one will now.
Bye bye Rice and Pernetti.
Delany's making calls right now. Dude's are toast.
He's trying to toughen them up for the big ten!
just seen the tape on ESPN.. this guy is a complete asshole.. one of the newest coaches of the BIG TEN. hope he loses every game he coaches until he is fired. the kids need to get out of that program ASAP
in the Big Ten.
just seen the tape on ESPN.. this guy is a complete asshole.. one of the newest coaches of the BIG TEN. hope he loses every game he coaches until he is fired. the kids need to get out of that program ASAP
That kind of physical and verbal abuse is just unacceptable.The dude needs therapy.
It kind of reminds me of a Will Ferrell movie.
There's a difference between tough love like we hear from Hoke/Mattison tapes and verbally belating your players like that. I don't think that all coaches should be Dr. Phil. They need to get on their guys, but that was crossing the line.
Typically when these types of stories pop up I think to myself that kids are just getting soft these days. Not in this case! That guy is out of control.
Here the issue I have with this video and this story. According to Eric Murdock, the assistant coach who's contract wasnt renewed said that he witnessed things that he wasnt comfortable with on the first and second day of practice nearly 3 years ago. Then around the time his contract wasnt renewed all this infomation was brought to light. I feel in athletics, if a coach or anybody associated with the program witnesses anything like this and keeps quiet needs to be let go. Because by keeping quiet you are fostering an atmosphere that is not condusive to learning. Mike Rice isnt the only one that needs to be gone. The assistants that witness this stuff and the AD as well need to be gone as well.
In fairness to Murdock, he is claiming wrongful termination by Rutgers, essentially for whistleblowing.
Yea he is but how convienent it is for him to claim wrongful termination when it is being reported that he was not terminated but essentially his contract was just not renewed. And I would side with Murdock had he said something from the outset but he didnt and allowed this to continue for 2 plus years. He has lost my fairness
He spent the two years he was there building up a case to show a pattern, so it couldn't be blown off as an isolated incident. It takes a while to get 30 minutes' worth of incidents that last 10 seconds. What's he supposed to do, go bleating to the media the moment he hears a bad word? He took it to the AD, and you have no idea at all what conversations he might've had during the two years he was there. Just because you didn't hear about it til now doesn't mean he "stayed silent."
u need two years to build a case? If he felt the way he feels now back then, he would not have needed two years to bring his case to the AD. Murdock was not tied to rice and did not attend rugters. He talked about seeing things in the first two practices that made him uncomfortable. At that moment he needed to go to the AD and tell him this info. Im not saying anything would have happened then but the AD need to be made aware of it. The issue I have with Murdock is how he is now suing Rutgers for wrongful termination saying he was fired for blowing the whistle. Murdock is trying to come off as he did the right the thing and in my opinion he is as guilty as RICE and every other coah and the AD who witnessed this going on in practice. Let me ask you this question, would you accept murdock's explanation for why he didnt say anything sooner if your child were on the team and he was the one being bullied by the coach. I suspect you wouldnt so spare me. And on another note I bet you were one of the people who thought JoePa didnt do enought to protect those children so how can you think Murdock did.
By your completely absurd logic, no whistleblower should ever come forward unless they come forward immediately. Otherwise they ought to be condemned just like the perpetrators. Once you witness even one thing that makes you uncomfortable you have to either speak up or forever stay quiet? That's stupid and counterproductive and a great way to make sure nothing is ever reported.
And who are you to say Murdock didn't talk to the AD right away? Do you know that for sure?
Also, makes me like Brandon even more.
...is the end of his coaching career.
Abar Rouse is out of coaching forever. Why? Because he said something, when his boss, the head coach, asked players and staff to interfere with the police investigation of the murder of one of his players by confirming his lie to the cops that the kid was a drug dealer, a lie told to cover the head coach's own pathetic ass by ginning up a cover story for the cash the kid was carrying, that were actually improper benefits paid by the head coach. That was worth tarring the posthumous reputation of ONE OF HIS OWN PLAYERS and trying to obstruct the investigation of his murder.
If you can't blow the whistle on THAT without ending your career, you can't blow the whistle on anything, ever.
Sorry for shouting, If you've ever actually paid the penalty for whistleblowing, I'll apologize and retract what I said, but I'm guessing you haven't or you wouldn't be so cavalier about the costs.
And I bet the Abar Rouse is in a better place mentally and spiritually for speaking up for what was right. Plus there are rules against retailating against a whistleblower. I would as a coach or in any profession rather get out of the profession for speaking up than to remain employed and be apart cover ups and the like. And I bet if Abar Rouse wanted to get back into coaching he could.
Abar Rouse tried to get back into coaching for years. Many well-known coaches are on record--Coach K is one--stating that they would never employ him or anyone "that had done what he did"...i.e., that had been a whistleblower.
Rouse may well be in a better place. But he lost his livelihood forever. That's the penalty the coaching profession has prepared for anyone that chooses to do the right thing.
Have they stated it was the whistleblowing that they didnt approve of? I bet its more of the fact that he lied at first to help cover up the truth. If a coach or anybody is on record stating they would never hire somebody who blew the whistle on a situation then we have lost our morals as a society. EDIT: I see that he didnt lie intially.
Just went back to the details of the baylor situation. Its seems what coaches were/are upset with in regard to Rouse was that fact that he secretly taped conversations. That is mostly the reason why coaches wont hire him not that he told the truth.
...so there would be evidence that the head coach was actively obstructing a murder investigation. Whistleblowing is bad enough--fatal from a career perspective, in fact--but effective whistleblowing? That was so beyond the pale that people like K lost control and said things to the press they might have reason to regret.
That's really all that was unique about the coaching profession in this regard. No one in my industry would ever say, in public, that we don't hire whistleblowers. We don't, of course, but we'd never say so in public.
You might want to spend a little time reading about what actually happens to whistleblowers in college athletics (or elsewhere, for that matter). Maybe the woman that blew the whislte on OSU/Clarett would be a good place to start.
Rouse's treatment was relatively benign, by comparison. But still telling.
Mark Mangino would be proud.
I thought he just ate his players? No?
He also threatens to send them back to the ghetto to get shot with their homies if they don't practice hard enough.
Actually, it was a cop in Puerto Rico that got the trashcan treatment.
I would hesitate to condemn the language out of hand if only because we don't really know what goes on at the other 350-some D-I schools. The verbal abuse is bad and not something I'd sign up for if I knew what his practices are like. But how much worse than other schools... we can't say for sure.
The shoving, kicking, and throwing basketballs, however.... even if it happened at every single other school in the country it ought to be a fireable offense at a bare minimum.
Yeah, the verbal abuse is probably not unusual at all. At my high school, our football and basketball coaches would both curse a blue streak when they were mad. Not that it should be acceptable, but people will blurt out stupid crap when they're mad - it happens. It's the physical abuse that crosses the line. Throwing a ball at a guy's head is seriously screwed up.
Cursing I have no problem with. Damn and shit and fuck are no different than dang, crap and frick to me. But I have a huge problem with fag, cunt and fairy and things of that nature. I'm sure a lot of coaches used it. Still not cool. If Bo, Red and JB used it I'd criticize them too.
Yeah, I don't think so. I don't give a crap what goes on in other gyms, a Michigan education taught us about absolute standards, not relative standards.
That's not a finger under the chin to get attention. That's outright abuse.
Rice 48 more hours in his position. I give the Rutgers AD about twice that long.
If Rutgers acts quickly, they can have a coach in place before Minnesota does.
If I were a Rutgers fan, I'd be embarassed. Now what's this about a basketball coach?
As a B$G fan, I'm not only embarrassed, I'm pissed off.
Guy is a bully plain and simple. Firing a ball at an unsuspecting player's head from point blank range (behind them as well) is not tough love or coaching - its bullying. He should be fired on the spot by the AD.
AD Tim Pernetti reiterated that Rice will remain Rutgers's coach, last month.
He had seen these tapes at that time, so it looks like two people are getting fired today.
The only logical explanation is that he thought the tapes would never become public. I find it hard to believe that he'd suspend him for only 3 GAMES knowing that people would see this. Bruce Pearl got 3 YEARS for lying about sharing a hotdog with Aaron Craft at his house.
That is probably the case becasue ESPN was scheduled to air this Sunday, and Rutgers droped it today.
May I introduce Mr Rush. You two should maybe join forces looking for new employment.
Was I the only one secretly hoping that at least one of the much younger, stronger and larger players he was physically abusing would have punched this little motherfucker right in the face?
I love tough guys who use their immunity to retribution (I'm a coach-you're a player) to bully others situationally. I wonder how many players who've graduated are just waiting to run into Mr Wonderful in a bar somewhere so they can let him just how good it feels to be publicly humiliated and have things thrown at him.
No, you were not the only one hoping for that.
Wow, that's pretty disgusting behavior on Rice's part. I've seen some coaches that have crossed the line, in my opinion, but never anything close to that bad. As others have said, the guy absolutely needs to be fired.
I've never seen a coach do it so many times. A fiery coach might cross the line once, maybe twice but never again. These vids make it look consistent.
Some of those clips are worse than others, but the ball-throwing is ridiculous. That's just being a bully, not a coach.
Yeah...that, the punching in the arm, and the name-calling/cussing are what cross the line. To be honest, I don't have a problem with a coach grabbing a guy by the jersey and dragging him to where he needs to be (which happens once or twice in the video). I keep my hands off of players unless I'm encouraging them, because you never know what a random observer will think. But if a coach grabbed me by the jersey to put me in the proper position, I wouldn't care. If he threw a ball at me, called me a faggot, punched me, etc., I'd rightfully be pissed off.
I remember being grabbed by the jersey and/or shoulder pads and led to another spot on the field. I have no problem with that because it's instructional (though I think what you do is smart). The ball-throwing, etc. is simply destructive and demeaning.
It's sort of a fuzzy line but you stated it well where he crosses it.
It's sort of a fuzzy line but you stated it well where he crosses it.
They got a few things right:
"The Rutgers Athletic Center has enjoyed a renaissance as one of the most difficult places to play in all of college basketball."
"Rice wasted little time making his mark during his initial campaign in 2010-11."
On a more serious note: using fear and abuse to motivate breeds resentment. The main flaw with this tactic is that the players will only do as much as he tells them; no player would ever go the extra mile for him, like they would for a Hoke or a Beilein.
These players are still kids, and Rice's actions suggest that it's more about him than about the players.
no player would ever go the extra mile for him, like they would for a Hoke or a Beilein.
That's the key ... in addition to putting the university in jeopardy of embarrassment or worse, Rice's tactics are very short-sighted.
There's nothing wrong with pushing young men to face their limitations and break through them. Hell, that's one of the key positives of sport like football or basketball. Coaches that do that well -- and Hoke absolutely comes to mind -- earn not just the respect of the players, but the devotion of the players. This Rice guy earns neither.
That guy is a first-class a-hole but I didn't see anything to get him fired. Maybe I'd fire him now that this video came out and it's going to be a real bitch to recruit, but not because some people deem he was overly physical.
It's division one basketball, not a youth league. Grow some thick skin or go play somewhere else.
Move along now...
Even if you want to take the physical abuse out of the equation (which I'm not suggesting) how is it ever okay to calll someone a fa$%^tt? It's not ok for anyone to do that, especially not a public employee.
to keep a proper stance. I think UM fans have to honest with themselves and acknowledge that what we witnessed in this video happened to a lesser extent at Michigan practices under Bo.
I love Bo and I understand that this "old school" type of teaching, but coming from a home where a spanking or any form of corporal punishment was meted out I cannot separate the two.
Maybe I'm rationalizing, but hitting a guy with a ruler when he's wearing pads and a helmet doesn't seem quite as bad as what Rice is doing (throwing basketballs at players' heads). It's definitely a different era, at any rate.
There is no padding back there and either way it is an act of violence.
But was it out of a total lack of ability to control his emotions and actions?
Cause that's what I saw on that video happening multiple times.
Is doing it as a precalculated idea really that much better?
Man, you'd hate nuns.
Seriously, though, rulers as a physical stimulus to keep form is not abuse in my mind. What I just saw on video is most definitely abuse honed over many years. You don't just start doing those things out of the blue.
Rutgers starts search for new basketball coach
It's on sportscenter, he's done. I give him 24 hours
their handling of the situation which I think was taped today(?). If so, Rutgers should start their search for a new coach and a new AD
They have a great AD. No way he's going anywhere. Pernetti has done some great things in his time at Rutgers. Their fanbase (rightfully so) believes he's the major, if not sole reason, for Rutgers getting the 14th team invite.
Yes, Delany wanted NJ/NYC badly, but Pernetti handled the situation perfectly. Plus he'll be great for future TV negotiations with his connections in the industry (former CBS sports VP or Prez...some big wig).
Um, there's no way he survives this in light of the rabid, groupthink culture driven by social media. I don't care if he's Les fucking Moonves.
You act like the coach was cold cocking people and then robbing their wallets.
The Athletic Department suspended him...and I would be willing to bet loads of money the University Prez and Legal department were apprised of the situation before punishment handed down.
I just don't see them getting rid of the AD. We will see. Feel free to rub it in my face later. I did appreciate the Les Moonves reference.
Based on the interviews I saw today, Pernetti is an amoral asshole with exactly ZERO integrity. If he is the face of Rutgers Athletics then their entire program is rotten to the core.
From the interviews I saw today, people like Tim Pernetti are the problem with college ethletics. Not interested at all in doing the right thing. Always looking to cover bad stuff up and do whatever is necessary to bury things to protect their own reputation rather than protecting their students.
He deserves to be fired.
"When he hired the coach, Pernetti said he knew Rice had a "fiery" personality. "I knew exactly what I was getting and I still know what I've got," Pernetti said."
It doesn't seem like this would be necessarily true, unless Tim Pernetti really does have his reputation and ego tied up in this hire and just doesn't even want to comprehend it, as Murdock theorizes. I have to believe there are very few schools - if any at all (hopefully, none at all) - that would keep Mike Rice having seen that tape. If Pernetti think that this is merely a "first offense" and that a fine and a suspension should cover it, then there isn't much of a reason to employ someone essentially acting as an enabler either. There's maximizing potential, and then there is treating people in such a way that you oblitterate potential - clearly, Rice is of the latter school, making him effectively useless as a coach and educator, I would think.
Apparently, this is what got Rice suspended in December. The obvious follow-up question is, did he change his ways after that? If he did, can you keep him as coach, or does this fallout make him toxic? I don't know.
I think they've got to fire him now, and probably also the AD. When your coach makes the evening news for bad behavior, that's a recruiting nightmare even if he's straightened out his behavior.
What Rice did was terrible and inexcusable and he should be fired.
For me, what's just as troubling is the fact that Pernetti was informed of this behavior over the summer, didn't take any action until December and only decided that it was worth a three game suspension. He should have fired him then and there. Instead, he gives him a minor suspension, lets him go his way and fails to renew the contract of the guy that brought it to his attention.
It's bad enough that we have to accept Rutgers and their mediocrity in football and basketball, but now we know their head coach is serial abuser of his players and their AD is an enabler of this behavior.
Looking forward to seeing our teams destroy them on the field.
I cannot believe what I just watched? Who does this prick think he is? I'm shocked he still has his job.
The B1G has to know by now that when you receive a report from an inferior about some type of abuse, you better follow it up and do due diligence. Fire the coach and the AD.
A page from Coach Patches...
Ironically, that guy was far nicer than Rice. And used much cleaner language. And got better results!!
All the discussion lately, triggered in part by the O'Bannon case, about whether "student-athletes" are being abused by their schools, deprived of their rightful compensation for performing a very lucrative service for their universities. "Treated like slaves," is the hyperbole.
And here they are, being treated like slaves.
Can anyone imagine any of this going down in their own workplace? What would happen to you if you tried any of this once, never mind a continuing pattern of it for years--what would be the consequences of calling your subordinates "faggots", throwing objects at their heads from point-blank range, putting your hands on them in a way that could even conceivably be construed as violent?
But it happens on a practice court and we have at least a few people that think it's normal.
Athletics is the only place left in this society where we even have this conversation.
In the workplace, I'd imagine you'd have a pretty decent case for an IIED suit among other causes of action. Assault and battery probably too.
treated. I see no lashing, no collars, no branding, or castration. What I do see is physical abuse that, while upsetting, is nowhere near what a slave went through.
Nothing about this situation is indicative of slavery. A player can leave anytime. A slave cannot. A player can seek redress through courts of law. Slaves were not even considered fully human, much less able to use courts of law.
It's time we develop a corollary to Godwin's Law for the use of slavery on the internet. I'm calling it Quattro's Law. This is the law that states that any argument that invokes a comparison of slavery to a situation of much less severity is automatically declared invalid.
So how does this guy still have a job? Even if you discard these incidents, his record alone should be enough for him to be fired.
My dad told me that when he was in high school, coaches would call their players pussies.
He told me that when his football coach called him a pussie, he hit a guy so hard in the next drill that he injured him. haha
Even after he was known to be a prick to his players and others, Bobby Knight was still able to recruit. Having national championships will do that for you. Rice doesn't exactly have that kind of resume. He's a liability and should have been fired months ago.
If recruiting was crappy before, imagine how it's going to be now.
If I was the father of one of the players, I would have instructed my son to handle his business. And I would tell anybody who has a problem with how my son acted to come deal with me.
After the commercial break (right now) coverage of this story...
that this story has hit mainstream nightly network news, what choice doesthe Rutgers AD have but to move quickly and fire Rice?
While the report covered on NBC News by Brian Williams shouldn't be any kind of "tipping point", a story progressing this quickly through the media from a Sports Media outlet thru the blogosphere and then on to TV sets across the country pretty much spells doom.
The fact that the AD was stupid enough to not realize that this was eventually going to happen is enough reason for him to lose his job. After he watched those tapes he had two choices:
1) Fire the coach in about 10 minutes
2) FIND SOME WAY TO DESTROY ALL THE EVIDENCE
Anyone with an IQ north of 90 would have immediately realized that in the YouTube era, this footage getting out would be a disaster for Rutgers. For him to not understand that is just unbelievable.
Higher education? I'm sorry, but he has to go and that team is going to need some therapy!
I'm guessing his wife has a bunch of eye make-up at home as well. Just a hunch.
Usually, I'm on the side of disciplinarian coaches who yell a lot, but this guy transcends that kind of coaching. Rice is one "disciplinarian" who needs to discipline himself first.
That guy is the motherfucker
I absolutely agree that physical abuse is worse than slurs, 100%. But...if he had been throwing racial or ethnic slurs around, they would also (rightly) be a big part of the narrative, and I think they should be here too.
I'd be highly disappointed if anyone on Hoke or Berenson or Beilein's staff needed to resort to racial, ethnic or homophobic slurs to "teach" their sport, and quite honestly I think it should be considered a failure of character to do so.
Yes, the physical actions are more egregious. But I don't have a problem with the verbal abuse getting equal coverage because I think a majority of people would agree that the physical actions were not ok while not as many would think that some of the homophobic comments are not ok. Either way, coverage of one does not have to come at the expense of the other.
It's all bad and whatever gets this jerk fired will be fine by me, yet why not make the homophobic slurs the issue? If most successful coaches use homophobic slurs it doesn't make it right. In fact, what a great chance to point out the ignorance and physical bullying that such slurs go hand and hand with.
Rice will get fired but the reason for it will be mostly the wrong ones.
He will get fired because even whoever the hell Nebraska's coach is can show this video to a recruit and ask the parents if they want to play .400 ball in Lincoln or play .400 ball in Jersey with a coach like that. Rutgers has no choice to fire Rice - not because of how he treated his players but because it's an irreversible PR nightmare on all levels.
How could any AD watch this and retain the coach? Astounding.
the kids or the institution's supposed values. What a crock.
The ball throwing is an assault and battery. This coach is out of control. Either that, or he's plain nuts.
How does Rutgers' allowing this to happen not constitute a lack of institutional control?
I wonder if Delany has been on the phone with Pernetti or someone higher up in that school, and read him or her the riot act yet?
So nice that the Big Ten has added in a school with such great character and leadership!
And now as an alum I am associated with this BS? This is MY conference now?! WTF is going on here? This is totally unacceptable and as far as I'm concerned Dave Brandon owns this problem. This is the future he creates for us? Bull effing sh$t!
Because the AD fired the whistle blower and only gave the coach a fine and a suspension. Rutgers is a state school. I doubt Christie will put up with this.
Unbelievable. This is who we're inviting into the Big Ten? Eff that. I am disgusted. First with that asshat coach. Next with his asshat bosses the AD and president. And third with the Big Ten for lowering our standards to this level. Thanks so much, it's great to be a fan of the Big Ten. It just means nothing any longer except Big Money. Now its just the B$G to me. WTF. Thanks Brandon, guess the bottom line rules. This sucks.
If you can't teach your sport without acting or talking like a complete idiot, let alone an abusive bully then there is no place in the profession for you!
I can understand grabbing a player by the jersey to move him to a position or being physical in a basketball way to teach something, but this video shows none of the that. Even when he grabs the jersey of one of the players it doesn't appear to be to move him to a position but more rather to pull him toward his own face at which point he calls him names.
How is anything that he does in that video remotely related to teaching players how to play the game of basketball better? The video says not much and his record at Rutgers says, not much as well.
I will be pretty dissapointed if Delaney does not force the issue and call for a clean sweep from the AD down to the towel boys!
Nothing wrong with pushing a player into position but rice did it with violence and anger which is unacceptable. I'm sorry if your coach did the same thing but it's 2013 and we don't do that in a civilized country anymore.
Rumor is he's sacked. Twitter being weird adn can't paste proper
RT @DanWetzel RT @BrendanPrunty: Mike Rice met today with Tim Pernetti. End is only a matter of hours now: http://t.co/axx5mXWMu1
It's not a surprise that he's gone. Similar coaches who have done similar things have also met the same fate. They're college kids. Leave them alone.
Lou Holth was on talking about the topic, and he said to criticize the play, not the player.