Is the Veer in our playbook?

Submitted by Jeff on

A question to anybody who remembers from the spring game, or has been to fall practices. Will we be running the veer?

A quick summary for those who don't know, the playside DE and LB don't get blocked in order to create double teams on the DT and to get out to the MLB. Then the first read is the DE with the option of handing off up the middle or the quarterback keep. Then depending on what the unblocked LB does the QB either runs with it or pitches the ball. For more read http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/12/florida-gatorurban-meyer-offe…

Florida usually uses a slot receiver who motions into the backfield. Since we have so many running backs we could have Minor as the first option (he's good up the middle) and Brown or Smith as the pitch man.

Also, while I was looking at how Florida runs the veer I noticed a similar play they had that I didn't really understand.

In this video there is a standard example of the veer at 2:14. Then the play I didn't quite get is at 4:15. Here the left guard and tackle both pull to the right leaving both the DT and DE unblocked. Tebow does not handoff since the DT is right there. Then he and the pitchman run to the sideline and he pitches because the DE is going to tackle him. But as opposed to the veer nobody blocks the MLB so now the DE, OLB and MLB are all running at the pitchman with only an HB to block for him.

Does anybody know how this play is supposed to work? It is run a couple times in the video and never gets more than 1 yard. It seems to me like it will always be stopped at the LOS because the defense is in good position to stop the handoff and then has numbers on the outside.

Needs

September 2nd, 2009 at 1:04 PM ^

I think it's a counter misdirection where the hope is that the DE, DT, and MLB follow the pulling G T, leaving the qb/rb isolated on the backside linebacker.

That says, if they don't follow the G/T, the play is fail.

BigBlue02

September 2nd, 2009 at 1:16 PM ^

IMHE, I really don't think we will see a lot of QB keepers with Forcier in the game. From all accounts, he is a great scrambling passer. I just see a lot of plays start out like a "veer" but then having Forcier run out of the pocket for a pass. I just see Forcier as a much better passer than, say, a Tim Tebow. RichRod isn't dumb - if Forcier is a much better passer, I think his offense will look much more like the Tulane offense than the West Virginia offense. He isn't going to want to throw Forcier to the wolves if he knows the kid throws well on the run.

*disclaimer - this is all based on the idea that Forcier will fuck shit up. If, say, DRob is the starting QB by mid-season, then I change my analysis.

Double Nickel BG

September 2nd, 2009 at 1:28 PM ^

a simple misdirection play. Most keys on defense are to read pulling linemen. So the hope is the DT and LBs on that side fly out with the linemen, and you have a 1v1 with the CB/WR and then all he has to do is outrun the pursuit of the LBs and make the safety miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.

Jeff

September 2nd, 2009 at 1:48 PM ^

Thanks GoBlue1065 and Needs. That's pretty much what I assumed was happening I wanted a second opinion. Keying on pulling linemen makes sense but I didn't know that. That play should work well since it's similar to their counter trey (guard and H-back pull) but Alabama was disciplined and shut it down.

BigBlue02, I think we all believe that Rodriguez is going to pass a lot more than he did with Pat White. The QB as a running option is pretty important part of making our running game work at 100% though. The veer and triple option off the zone read are two of the counters to what defenses can employ to stop the zone read. Last year we saw the bubble screen off the zone-read, I'm curious what new wrinkles we'll see this year. I do like the looks of the veer (but maybe that has something to do with how effectively Florida can run it) and I think it would work great with Minor and Brown/Smith.

steve sharik

September 2nd, 2009 at 2:12 PM ^

... during one of their bowl games that was in between BCS appearances.

"A question to anybody who remembers from the spring game, or has been to fall practices. Will we be running the veer?" I hope so. We have the players to do it. Minor will be an excellent downhill dive back, Brown will be an excellent pitch back (assuming we do this from a 2-back look), and Shoelace can burn you, too. Even if we run this w/other QBs, with Tate it will be a sizable gain, and with Nick it will still be a good play. The thing is, the defense will have to decide who they want to have the ball. If they choose QB, then we put Shoelace in the game and kill them. If they choose otherwise, then it's either Brown in space 1-on-1 with a safety/OLB or it's Minor going downhill right now.

"Then the play I didn't quite get is at 4:15." This play is labeled "GT pull option." What happens is it's a counter trey option. The dive key is the 3 technique. The pitch key is the 5 technique, and the H back "loads" (what a lead back in option is called) the safety/OLB on the backside. What blew this play up was that Hernandez (H back) didn't make his block, and the play went for +1.

Some of the plays were mislabeled. One of the "veer" plays toward the beginning was clearly midline. Like veer, midline is much different out of the gun/spread than wishbone, double slot (Ga. Tech), etc.

Midline out of the gun: Run the zone scheme (inside or outside, doesn't really matter, although I prefer outside to get those ILBs runnin') at the 1 technique. The backside OT fan blocks (blocks out) on the backside 5 technique DE. The QB reads the backside 3 technique (who will almost definitely close) for dive/keep. If the 3 technique does close, the QB runs the ball through the backside B gap.

The first big play on the film above is midline to the right. (I think it's the 2nd play on the film.) Watch the LG try to avoid the 3 technique. The reason it was a give is b/c the 3 technique got caught up with a slow-footed or lazy guard who should have immediately climbed to the LB.

By the way, if you were wondering if the veer were in our playbook, I am really hoping the midline is in there. It's nasty. (And you can ask Mike Martin what he thought about it when he played DL against us [Milford] as a sophomore in the '05 playoffs. By the way, our right tackle that year was MSU frosh. all-american OG Joel Foreman.)

EDIT: 3rd play on film is also midline, but to the left. Watch Tebow key the 3 technique taking the dive and pull the ball into the right B gap.

Jeff

September 2nd, 2009 at 3:47 PM ^

Nice to hear some experienced opinions. I also wouldn't mind seeing the midline. I imagine there's a good chance that at least one of the two will get saved for the Notre Dame game. I bet we'll see the zone-read, z-r bubble screen and z-r pitch against Western.

That pull-option play is similar to their counter trey, but usually they run the counter trey with the H-back and OG pulling. For example, see 3:44 I'm no Urban Meyer, but it seems like the counter trey option would work better if they kept that scheme.

The Tackle blocks the end with the OG and H-back pulling. The dive is read of off the DT penetration. Either the guard or the H-back should be able to get out to the MLB which would then leave only the OLB unblocked to be optioned off with the pitch.

I suppose as long as the H-back makes his block what is on that video would gain at least a couple yards.