Have to tell your team things like that you probably have some issues. Seems like it should be implied.
They might as well add NO MURDERiNG and DON'T RAPE PEOPLE to the wall.
Urban Meyer and Charlie Strong's "Core Values"
Have to tell your team things like that you probably have some issues. Seems like it should be implied.
bravo... i literally laughed out loud when i read this....
Pirating movies. it's along the same lines
YOU WOULDN'T PIRATE A CAR
Problem is, they forgot the most important one of all:
How about, atleast for OSU:
FOOTBALL IS NOT YOUR MAJOR, YOU MUST GO TO CLASS.
that truth in that statement or the irony of that statement given your avatar and recent academic issues at ND...
well played sir +1
Well Golson went to class, he just happened to cheat on a test.
Everybody kills people murders people steals from you steals from me whatever
Signs like these make me appreciate the parents I have and the community I grew up in even more.
Yep. Not trying to excuse their behavior but a lot of these young men grew up with no fathers or positive role models of any type where values like this were not stressed. It's all they saw growing up and I imagine college coaches, who most of the time are the first exposure to positive role models in these kids' lives, have a hard time breaking them away from it. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. And to be honest, I can see why people wanna hate on Meyer but Strong seems like a stand up guy. Making fun of him for trying to mold young men? Comon now. We should be applauding him for caring about their lives and futures and not just viewing them as another player who can get him a raise or a better job.
Wait... Hold up... You're telling me that Ohio and Urban have values???
Well of course they have values. It's just that when they're writ large on the side of the wall for all the public to see that we realize that their values are ridiculous.
should be signed,
Keep it simple stupid. When I was a teacher, I often found the best students followed these core values.
Frank Clark disagrees
I know this is intended as a snarky reply, but there's a decent point here. Frank Clark is probably a pretty good kid who did something dumb. Maybe some reminders would have helped.
Charged with domestic violence.
And not having a reminder didn't exactly help Hagerup right? The idea that sny program is above having kids run afoul of the rules is asinine.
You are always going to have kids who make poor decisions or bad apples. I was making the point that the notion that having it spelled out in supersized font would change that is ridiculous. The type of kids a school recruits and how they deal with discipline probably has a bigger impact on that.
It's a university. Not kindergarten.
I hate kids who make bad apples. Why don't they take apple making classes?
Well, if they're relying solely on the signs then it is dumb. But I'd the sign is there to reinforce things they talk about in meetings and practice, then it seems like a pretty good idea.
If becomes I'd. Well played, autocorrect.
"Oyster monkey:" while the "idea that any program is above having kids run afoul of the rules" may, indeed, be "asinine," the real issue is what the coach does afterwards.
If you are a Tom Izzo, and one player tells the police he sat in the same room and watched while another player sexually assasulted someone, you cover it up. If you are Urban Meyer or Mark Dantonio, you give a lot of third and fourth "second chances" to "deserving players," for "minor" offenses like assault or domestic abuse.
And if you are anyone who has coached at the University of Michigan during the last fifty years, you give second chances for DUI or possession of pot, and get rid of those who commit criminal acts that put other students on your campus at risk.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. I'm not saying that there aren't coaches and programs that handle discipline better than others. Although I'm not one that thinks you have to have a single rule against which all discipline gets evaluated. I think it's the coach's responsibility to do what's best for the kid. But the kids on the team are from all kinds of backgrounds and what works for one might not work for others. I think coaches have to balance that against being evenhanded, but there won't always be an obvious right way to go.
But nobody here is arguing with me about whether Urbz is practicing what he preaches. They're all saying that none of the things written on the walls at OSU and Louisville should have to be said. Maybe in an ideal world these things shouldn't have to be said, but the prevalence of drugs, guns, date rape, etc. on college campuses tells me they do.
I am reminded once again you are a Buckeye to the core.
Love your user icon - are you a Vermonter?
Probably for the best as I'd drown myself in Heady, Lawson's, and Hill Farmstead. Will be visiting this fall before driving down to U Conn game.
Love the Heady Topper gif.
I will also be at the UConn game, where I'm expecting a 3 TD Win. My only hesitation with that is that it could be a letdown game 1 week after ND in AA.
"I guess I always assumed these things were self-explanatory and not having to be spelled out like this. Seems like a pretty low bar for core values."
Do you say that because you really feel like this is unnecessary, or do you say that because Ohio State said it and you feel the need to put them down for it? Because let's face it, if Michigan had this on a mural somewhere, many of us would praise it. Truth be told, not all young men honor these values, no matter what community you come from.
Worked retail, would you expect a Don't Steal From The Register sign? Or if you worked at a restaurant, perhaps a sign saying no spitting in people's food?
I see signs that say "shoplifters will be prosecuted." At the zoo where I work there are plenty of "do not feed the animals" signs. Lots of schools have signs that say "no weapons allowed on the property." I mean, yeah, this sounds obvious. But they are rules that need to be established, regardless. Not all players are brought up through the greatest background and not all of them have made wise decisions. I can imagine some coaches bring in troubled students because they want to give them an opportunity to correct their lives.
Yes, a good person would see this wall as their own code and what they believe in. Even a troubled person would want to live by this. But we've seen time and again that not everyone is perfect, even if you want them to be.
Obviously it is more relevant because it involves Ohio State, but that doesn't change the fact that these are not core values. These are things by which most average human beings abide (the drugs one is a little debatable).
Do you also need one for:
1. Don't do anything stupid
2. Don't assault your fellow classmates
3. Don't drink and drive
To be fair, drugs, weapons, women, and dishonesty pretty much cover 90% of the things that college football players get in trouble for.
Those are probably the two most common. But does getting in trouble for them make them the core values of your football team?
Having this on your wall spelled out like this as a reminder suggests that the team has a problem following some of these basic human principles.
Did you get a bad batch?
Honestly if Michigan put up a sign that said something like this I would be kinda shocked.
I would never praise this. I honestly don't know who would. This seems like something a simpleton would put on their wall.
These are rules. To call these things "core values" suggests that these are the things that represent what the organization is all about. When they think of Louisville football, should the first few things that come to mind be, "no guns, no drugs, and treat women respectfully?" That'd be like saying the first things that come to mind when you think of Wal-Mart should be "no stealing, no fighting with fellow employees, and no weapons."
A couple of examples...
Whole Foods' core values are:
- Selling the highest quality natural and organic products available
- Satisfying and delighting our customers
- Supporting team member excellence and happiness
- Creating wealth through profits and growth
- Caring about our communities and environment
- Creating ongoing win-win partnerships with our suppliers
- Promoting the health of our stakeholders through healthy eating education
Not "don't do drugs", "don't bring guns to work," and "don't steal from us."
The Michigan basketball team's core values are more succinct:
A core value is "Developing healthy minds, bodies, and spirits through discipline and hard work" and a rule supporting that might be "no alcohol, drugs, or smoking." A core value is "Being respected members of the community" and supporting rules might be "no weapons" and "treat women with respect." I think the "Integrity" core value covers everything on the Louisville and ohio state lists.
Strong and Meyer are really missing the boat here.
What other "core values" should they add?
"Chew with your mouth closed"
"Don't interrupt others when they're talking"
"Cover your mouth when you sneeze"
I think another good core value is to only drive in the left hand lane to pass. Otherwise get over.
At the pool I go to, the main core value is to not pee in the pool. I think that'd be a good one to add as well
A perfect summarization of the definitions of values and rules. It's not just a matter of semantics, either, and there are other examples of thoughtless failure to examine the differences:
- Good salesmen understand the difference between "features" and "benefits". If they don't, or think they're synonymous, they really don't understand how to sell.
- Good marketers understand the difference between "strategy" and "tactic". If they don't, they fiddle their money away while their customer base disappears.
I agree. Sort of sad you have to put logical morals on walls. Especially those dealing with serious crimes.
All this is good advice for college kids.
nothing objectionable. It is just embarassing for both Louisville and Ohio. Kids should understand how to be a decent human being by the time they enter high school.
Well, some kids have lousy parents. Or, perhaps things just don't sink in for some kids for some reason. How can reinforcing good ideas hurt? This whole thread is just dumb hurr durr rival dumbassery.
A good portion of the students I teach come from not ideal homes (I teach B level physics, biology, and math). I spend a good portion of the early part of the year establishing class norms of a good citizen (ie one person talks at a time, use respectful language, cell phones are away during class, come to class prepared and on time). If students cannot handle these basic norms, then they can serve detention with me or if it gets to a point then they must schedule a meeting between me and their assistant principal before they will be allowed back in class.
However, I would hope any high school grad would understand a basic code of ethics.
I suspect people, like me, are little surprised that words like honor, integrity, respect wouldn't be enough, but that the specificity of guns, drugs, etc. would have to be spelled out. The former cover the latter, plus a whole lot more, for those who take those words to heart and live by them.
But there's obviously a reason that they are being very specific.
The reason is the same reason nearly every program has kids that run into trouble from time to time. They're kids. They do dumb things.
They are not kids. How old does a person have to be before they are finally considered an adult?
I don't know. Maybe 25? When did you stop acting like a kid? I know when I was 21 I was a whole lot more like a 15 year old than a full on grown up.
I don't think there's a specific age is there? You can join the military and die defending your country when you're 18, but you can't drink alchohol legally until you're 21. Can't parents still claim their children as dependants on their tax returns when the children are still in college?
It's also good advice not to take long walks off short piers. I don't feel the need to post that on my wall, though.
Well I'm glad that you had a fully developed system of impulse control at 19 and didn't need anyone to reinforce a positive message or provide you with an environment where making the right decision was encouraged. You should give yourself a high five.
Did your parents post a set of simple "rules to live by" in huge font on your bedroom wall? If not, how did you make it through high school without winding up in prison?
Thats a good point lol
No, but they reminded me from time to time. And they didn't have 100 kids, so they could, like, talk to me every day. Whereas the coaches for these teams probably don't get to interact with every kid every day. The signs might be overkill, but what the hell? They certainly don't hurt.
Some of us were serving our country at 19. I certainly didn't need a sign like that.
Umm, I really don't see anything wrong with this...
or Strong. Many college programs have had issues with players violating the precepts laid out on those signs. I cannot critcize either coach for emphasizing moral behavior.
for their own actions. Many criminals are raised by decent human beings. Upbringing alone does not explain socially aberrant conduct.
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." ~Socrates
"Cross their legs?" Oh, the humanity!
Maybe it says more about the culture that every member of society created, one that idolizes football players, oversexualizes everything, criminalizes weed but hardly sanctions underage drinking, and is in general a festering melting pot of awesomeness and diabetic aids blood.
There, now you know how I really feel...
No bong hits after midnight for you.
Say yes to free tats though, You'd be a fool not to
There are some other good ones they could have put up, not sure why they stopped there. While they are at it why not say treat everyone with respect?
Someone oughta hang one of these signs in DatBull's shed
At least he has made an attempt at reform. Do you think Saban would ever do that?
Some robots have families
Cheat on the woman who gave birth to his daugther? (http://outkickthecoverage.com/nick-sabans-daughter-kristen-accused-of-sorority-catfight-beatdown.php) Not sure he has the balls for that.
Being a workaholic is a common problem for many successful men and women but that doesn't mean Urban doesn't treat women with respect. I would imagine wives and children feeling neglected at times is par for the course for D1 head coaches.
I think there's a difference between being a workaholic and slapping women around (which I'm 99.9% sure that's what the 'treat women with respect' mantra is about and btw don't call them bitches and hoes either).
Besides being downright obvious to most young men, the asthetics of these signs just seem weird. Especially OSU. Seems like word salad with the block text, bold, and a list tucked in there real sneaky like. I read (because I try to) DECISIONS! Honesty, treat with NO women respect drugs stealing violence.
If I get really weird I can see:
Honesty, treat women with no respect. Drugs! Stealing! Violence!
To be fair, our wall would read, "Don't do car slides if you are over 300 lbs."
98.88% of these kids are on athletic scholarships and if they want-they definitely need them in Columbus-weapons, they have to steal them. If this "core value" is actually implemented by Urbie, then there will be a lot of suspended players. The school, not unlike Barry did at OU, although never publicly admitted to, could at least steer them in the direction of a booster who is willing to supply them with weapons which should, of course, be returned, like autos, when no longer at the university. This is Ohio fergodssake. ^Never steal weapons at OH? WTF will they come up with next? Woodrow Jefferson Hayes is probably rolling over in his grave. What a bunch of idiiots. I predict that sign will be changed within three days, and if not, it will be plastered with bullet holes, as well it should be, imho of course. I mean we have our traditions and they have theirs.
"Everybody kills people, murders, steals from you, steals from me, whatever." Now maybe with these helpful signs in place "everybody" won't murder or steal. Ahh, what heights T. Pryor might have acheived has he had a reminder like this around when he was at Ohio.
I don't have a problem with coaches trying to hammer home values in kids. Yeah in a perfect world they can be left unsaid, but I'm sure this sign actually helps a lot of kids on OSU keep their priorities straight.
It does seem more like a list of "things to avoid doing so that we don't have to suspend you" list than a list of actual "core" values though. Treat women with respect? How about treat all people with respect. And I can think of about 100 things higher up on my list of values than "no drugs" and "no weapons." But again, those are the things college kids get in trouble with the most, so I understand the sign. Though the motivation behind it might be geared more towards "keep kids out of trouble with the NCAA" than "make kids into better men," it has a good influence regardless.
Signs, Signs, everywhere Signs. Blocking up the scenery........
Nice trip down Rock & Roll Memory Lane
NO getting caught by the NCAA
But this is not a forum for religion.
Why do you think that these "core values" are essentially the same at these institutions? Is it because the two coached together in Florida?
and they could have their own movie.
Signs o' the times
Is this real? Or, am I being really gullible? This has to be a photoshop, there is no freaking way a program has to put those 'rules' up... Not even rules, laws that nobody is supposed to break.
Seriously, someone tell me without joking if this is truly legit.
Wasn't there a story a few years ago about Derek Dooley having to teach his players how to wash? When you start with teaching college kids how to scrub their asses, this is just about graduate level at some places.
EDIT: Here it is:
Sharing showers for such extents of time and then overlapping with other teams and sports, it's probably a pretty good idea to have a basic hygiene class. It might seen funny, until your qb gets a staph infection on his elbow and it nags him for 2 years.
That Urban Meyerr copied Louisville's sign practically verbatim. He builds character like he recruits!
Correct. Strong was the DC for UF after Mattison IIRC.
To be fair Charlie Strong is a great coach from what I can tell. He has a name/footprint in FLA, which has helped UofL tremendously. He can also get some kids that the likes of Michigan and Stanford couldn't touch, if you catch my drift. And not that that is a bad thing at all. It is what it is.
This is a Michigan blog.
Holy crap are you the Star Trek version of DarthWolverine?
I suddenly felt the urge to lie to a woman while high to convince her to help me steal some guns and then slap her, good thing I read this on time.
wanna make sure you catch "put the seat down" and "flush" on that sign. Both of of them have room.
I guess they take the fine out of the poor bastard's estate.
"No Guns" is not a core value.
I guess knives, bludgeons, knuckle dusters, etc. are fine at Louisville.
Behind every silly warning lable lies a dumbass who needs to read it.
behind every silly spelling error is one more person who has lost their audience.
The problem in most cases is simple. The people who need the label won't read it, and the people who read it don't need it.
Are you my comp teacher? Did you understand my joke? Am I writing a term paper? Find a hobby.
I personally think this is great! Now I don't suspect Coach Meyer is likely to do drugs, steal or carry a gun, but the reminders to be honest and treat women with respect hopefully keeps him on the straight and narrow.
I can tell how many people here have never worked with youths from the communities that college football recruits often come from.
Notice that Wisconsin leaves off the "No Guns" part. Too many hunters in this state I guess.
If that's what you want to build your football program on, by all means...
Urban Meyer and Maurice Clarett seem to share the same elite ability to completely ignore those values
Living in Louisville, you don't know how happy this makes me.
I actually like Lousville a LOT more than UK because of the long lasting socio-economic divide between the schools/alumns, etc, etc (no polo), but this is still hilarious.
Hey guys, on your way out today please remember not to beat your women and go to the grocery store with your guns.
So...I guess "Do not plagiarize" isn't very high on Louisville's list (assuming here that Strong took this list from his time under Meyer) of core values.
For most of this board... you were raised by two parents and probably in a fairly safe and nurtured environment. While I can argue that these are "rules" rather than "values" it is a good thing that any school does this. Do not think that this message is not necessary for kids who have played at Michigan or on the team currently. I would like to think less do need these reminders but it is necessary.
Unfortunately in our society there are kids who grow up and never hear things like this. It's not bad that any program is posting it, it's sad that they have too.
It's a starting point and important, but there is also much (or more) to be said for imparting VALUES rather than just a set of rules. Rules are just things to follow so you don't get in trouble. Values impart the, er, value of following those rules. Rules by themselves don'y make you a better person, they make you a rule follower, or someone who just tries to not get caught violating those rules.
Yes, let's have a semantics debate instead of recognizing coaches doing good things. Do you feel better about yourself now? Perhaps the coaches know this and are using values instead of rules, because, well who wants more rules to follow? Using the term values might cause the young men to want to live that sort of lifestyle.
Who reads it to the players?