I would guess that portends the same (or at least similar) style of offense and play calling as the Indiana game. Seems like a good idea, at least for now.
Tennessee is not recruiting well just because they got 18 dudes
I would guess that portends the same (or at least similar) style of offense and play calling as the Indiana game. Seems like a good idea, at least for now.
What's the word on Kalis? Is he getting outperformed, or is he banged up a bit?
From what I read on Rivals, Kalis is having a hard time with the mental side right now. They say he's thinking more than reacting.
great coaching there funk....
That is not on Funk. All players mature on their own. You cannot speed up the process some times. That is why you don't want RS Freshman playing on the line.
One day it will click in Kalis' head. It might be this week, it might be next week, it might be the offseason. Hell, it might take till week four next season. When that light switch flips from thinking to reacting, he will be a hell of a football player.
Has any OLineman developed under Funk, though?
Two years of pretty absymal OLine play with two NFL-caliber tackles is not really a positive sign. And as someone else in the thread pointed out, 7 games and 2 byes in, the OLine is still being shuffled around.
Are they young? Sure. But plenty of teams have young OLines that they get figured out eventually (look at MSU's line last season). This unit has been really underperforming and it's severely hampering the entire offense.
And as one of the posters pointed out and many keep asking.. WHERE the hell is Braden. I heard on here that he has problems pulling and can't play the interior as good as tackle.. Ok fair enough, but why is he not seeing and playing time at all as a tackle like when Lewan went down if they are trying to squeeze short yardage? I mean hes the biggest linemen we have and he's had an entire year and a half in the system. If he is just not good i'll be a disappointed fan for sure. The expectations were sky high.
Exactly. And Magnuson was the higher rated recruit. If Braden was playing in his place, people would blame Funk for that too.
Who exactly has Funk not developed? We all agree that Lewan and Schofield are very good players, probably at or near their college ceilings. Outside of them, the only non-frosh he has are perpetually-injured Bryant and Miller. Are we expecting those guys to be good right now? The fact that guys like Magnuson, Glasgow and Kalis are all beyond where they should be right now should be somewhat credited to Funk.
As a unit, they have been pretty terrible for a couple of years now. Let's not forget the performance of three 5th year seniors last season.
I would expect at least average performance from them, especially at this point in the season. Instead, they're still shuffling the starting line-up. There are serious problems at that position.
in fact one is All-American, another is some level of All-B1G (probably second team), and Glasgow is solid.
They're shuffling Kalis and Bryant for others at the guard positions. Probably because those players are stronger right now, but missing too many assignments. They're putting a premium on getting a body on people, rather than driving them. At this point that makes sense.
And again I'm surprised at the attention put on Funk/Borges vs. Mattison, probably due to Brian's influence on the board. People are concerned with shuffling on the OL, but Mattison's rotating in everyone but the softball team and no one cares. Despite dubious results at times, and I'm talking about more than just the last drive vs. PSU.
I am more likely to give Mattison the benefit of the doubt, because I've seen more good on the defensive side of the ball. I haven't caught up with the Indiana game yet, but the previous 2 1/2 seasons have generally looked good to me. Especially considering the turn around from the 2010 defense. Not lights out every game, but that side of the ball has been reliably good since Mattison got here.
My broader concern about the offense stems from not seeing any development. Three seasons in, and things don't seem to be trending upwards. Things just seem highly, highly erratic. Capable of doing good things, but you can't count on it. Especially the QB play; the best quarterbacking we've seen since Borges got here was Gardner after practicing at WR.
As far as the OLine, it's two good tackles, a serviceable center, and a mess at both guard spots. And that comes after a mid-season switch at center. That's, at best, 2.5 spots out of 5. I'm not expecting the slew of 2nd and 3rd year players to be dominant, but that interior has been underperforming even modest expectations.
Bosch may turn out to be the best one at the guard spot and he was buried on the depth chart...??? A coach is supposed to be able evaluate talent and pull talent out of kids right?
Is a year younger. It would be pretty natural for him to be behind others on the depth chart initially. And one would hope that even as an early enrollee he'd be enough behind others in spring practice that he couldn't catch up after only spring, as otherwise what have the other OLs been doing all year. That he's been able to pass about 5 guys ahead of him on the depth chart speaks highly of him, but says very little about coaching, except that coaches are willing to keep evaluating the depth chart.
FWIW this is ESPN's scouting report of Bosch coming out of high school.
"With his size and raw tools, he shows some upside, but we feel will need a redshirt year to keep develop his skills and allow him to maximize his ability."
So, this is a guy that although has good size and physicality and was also highly ranked out of high school, was thought by scouts to need a RS to develop his strength and push in run blocking.
Glasgow is a Sophmore
Your reply makes zero sense
Keep in mind he had a spread line the first two years. Funk teaches power.
Plus, RichRod's OL recruiting hasn't helped matters.
ok and the guys we are talking about were recruited for the power scheme and still don't look good. If anything they should have no issues since that's all they have known. it's not like they had to learn a new system like Lewan and Schofield had to.
They are all also RS freshman. It takes time to teach and develop O-Lineman. If we are playing as bad as they are this time next year then its time to worry.
Well on a typical UM team none of these guys (ex Glasgow I guess) would be sniffing the field other than to get some reps vs CMU due to age. UM usually would roll out a RS sophomore that is uber talented (Long Lewan etc) and in rare exceptions 2 (Hutchinson Backus) but usually you throw 1 out there and surround him with a bevy of juniors and seniors. Like what OSU is doing this year with 1 very young starter. Rolling through RS freshman and now a true freshman? Not ideal.
All that said you'd expect out of the 2012 class if Funk was the answer, one of these guys - just by chance would be hitting big. Maybe its going to be a 2013 kid (Bosch), which would be strange - but who knows. Just from probability you'd expect someone to pop up out of so many candidates. It really is going to set up an interesting 2014 when multiple of these guys have to "hit it big" together just to be competent.
Last point about the OL - it is the one unit on the team that is truly a unit. Your safeties are somewhat separate from your corners. Your LBs are more out in space and DL are much more about 1 on 1 battles. The OL is so much about communication and being on the same page - it really is difficult to figure out who is doing what and who has what skill. Lewan has looked down at times this year from even last year; I assume some is the constant injuries but I have to believe part of that is the turnstile that has set up next to him all year.
Lewan and Long both started as RS freshman, not sophomores (well, they did as sophomores, too, but you know what I mean). And I'm not just comparing this line to vintage UM lines; that'd be a crazy standard. Other schools have been able to cobble together functional lines out of less. Will they get better? Sure. Doesn't mean I don't think they shouldn't be playing better now.
To your last point, the OL can't develop as a unit when they're still shuffling players and positions 9 weeks into the season.
you have the ultimate 0* player being developed into an average-to-good B1G lineman in his RS sophomore season. At two positions.
Personally I think too much is made of coaching at times - Kalis hasn't looked like a dominant talent at any point yet in his time here, even going back to practice videos - but if you're going to play that game, you can't ignore Glasgow. Miller is also a fine technician who was in the right spot and made the right calls for the most part (coaching), he's just too small and was overpowered too often.
With 3 of 5 OL spots doing just fine, I think it's premature to blame Funk for not finding two above-average guards from among a bevy of redshirt or true freshman
Point taken about Glasgow. But personally, I feel like his success is outweighed by the struggles of seemingly everyone else who isn't a 5th year senior.
And I'd be happy if the line performed average, let alone "above average."
Our Depth goes
2 - 5th year seniors
3 - 3rd year sophmores (1 too small, 1 too injured, & 1 amazing ex-walk-on)
1 Billion - True Freshman and RS Freshman who should never be forced to see the field this early under normal Michigan circumstances.
So everyone who isn't a 5th year senior & who isn't named Graham Glasgow are usually not 100% developed under any program. Let's see how the new line performs against MSU this week before you say Funk can't develop. Who knows, maybe Mags & Bosch (who is a true freshman, which is amazing) are the answer. And your whole lack of development thing goes out the window.
What about the line last year? There were two 4th year players and three 5th year players that Funk had for two seasons.
And plenty of teams can field functional, sometimes pretty good, OLines out of two 5th year players, some 3rd players, and some 2nd year players. As a unit, they have been underperforming for two straight seasons. Yes young, but still playing worse than they should.
We have zone read lineman trying to play a power run game. Add in the fact that our bread and butter (QB zone read) didn't option off the extra defender like it is designed to do, and you become less effective.
I completely disagree with you that the young lineman are playing worse than they should.
I am just asking you to wait and see. Funks guys are 1st & 2nd year guys. Let them develop (or underdevelop) before you jump down his throat. Kalis would look a lot better playing on the line if juniors & seniors were at the G and C spots.
They aren't 1st and 2nd year guys, they are 2nd and 3rd year guys. Those redshirt seasons are there specifically to aid development. And running an offense ill-suited to your personnel might give Funk a bit of a pass, but is still a mark against the coaches (I guess, in this case, Borges's play calling).
Lucky for you, for some reason Hoke and the AD don't seem to want to listen to my opinions of their coaching staff.
but I have never believed he's the coach who's deciding what kind of offense to run.
I think you're right, because Borges has a reputation as a West Coast Offense guru.
Miller - not bigstrong enough - that's not really on Funk
Bryant - oft injured - hard to blame Funk
Glasgow - doing well
Everyone else on the interior is 1st or 2nd year player. Unfortunately, depth actually matters, because even when you recruit top tier talent there is still some luck involved both in whether and how quickly they pan out.
To my count, there are 5 non freshman, non-walkon offensive lineman greater than 291 lbs on the team. Its not surprising that our coaches were hopeful that with those 5, Glasgow and a 291 lb Miller, we could field a good line. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that Miller is strong enough, with his injuries, Bryant has progressed enough and red-shirt freshmen Kalis and Braden were ready.
Thus, we're now going with smaller but maybe more mentally prepared Magnuson and the true freshman Bosch. It doesn't seem to be a totally illogical plan.
Last year was not much different. We had five uperclass scholarship lineman, an injured redshirt sophomore, a too small redshirt freshman, a bunch of freshman and a bunch of walkons. To pull together 5 solid guys, we needed hits on every uperclassman scholarship player and/or a phenomobal freshman or some real luck with a walkon.
I doubt there are many offensive line coaches who would have done well with those numbers.
Has any OLineman developed under Funk, though?
Two years of pretty absymal OLine play with two NFL-caliber tackles is not really a positive sign.
To be expexted from a freshman. If he keeps working with Hutch in the offseasons he's going to be a keeper.
So he will get better working with Hutch but not our Oline coach just like when he was working with Bentley in hs? Great endorsement of our Oline coach I say lol
Magnuson is going to get yanked by the end of the first quarter. It's ine thing playing an undersized tackle at guard against Indiana. It's a whole different game against State.
I have a feeling we'll go to a lot of max-protection packages, which will mitigate the damage caused by the mismatches up front. The question will be whether or not we can capitalize downfield to Funchess and Gallon.
Funchess is easily the best bet. He is a mismatch for everyone on defense. Gardner just needs to time to set and throw.
I think between Funchess's size and Gallon's ability to get separation via route running, the WR v. DB match-up is actually a good one for UM, even with MSU's DBs. The passing game is going to be really interesting to watch.
Hopefully we'll throw a heavy dose of quick outs to Fumchess/Gallon when Staee lines up one on one with no safety help and blitzes on every play like they always do. We should definitely be passing to set up the run next Saturday.
Or Scholfield at guard and Magnuson at tackle.. And with all the pre season hype on Braden, where is he?
Key term there is "pre season hype." It's why the Grady Brooks Memorial King of Spring Hype exists.
Braden is #2 on the depth chart at LT.
Bosch did look decent against IU, for what that's worth. Hopefully him and Glasgow don't have any miscommunications like last game; they had a play on the goal line where they both bumped the DT and went to the 2nd level, while said DT was just left alone to roam around in the backfield. Blocking mishaps like that will get somebody killed against MSU.
I'm sure Narduzzi took one look at our interior Oline and said "Double A-gap blitz. Every play." As long as the Oline picks that up well, we have a chance. Gardner running for his life in the backfield is a recipe for disaster.
we will see a healthy dose of Kalis so long as he isn't injured...I don't mind this line-up since we won't be able to run much power runs against Sparty's tough defense
M is going to win.
][\/][ is going to win.
Kali's will play a lot because Borges will use heavy packages. This game is so physical the risk of injury is higher than normal. Hopefully, Lewan is healthy. To me, I think he has been playing hurt for a while.
but is such a great player/leader that he won't sit this one out no matter what!
After 7 games and 2 bye weeks, can we please have this figured out? Puzzling and frustrating to say the least. We keep hearing that we're competing and playing the "best 5". I can't understand how that can be so fluid and inconsistent.
I'm even more frustrated after watching UCLA and other squads have success running the ball, while starting 2-3 true freshman. I hope we win this game (mostly), and can look back and see it solidify our identity and personnel.
Sorry, you don't get to reference anonymous squads in order to make UCLA anything other than an outlier.
Please don't discount my argument with logic and fact
Plenty of teams at least make due with a line as inexperienced as Michigan's, and often with less talent. Not every program is a Wisconsin, with a seemingly endless stock pile of 5th year seniors to start on the line. Most make due with young contributors on the line. Michigan's line play has been some of the worst I have ever seen, from anyone, not just Michigan.
"Most make due with young contributors on the line. Michigan's line play has been some of the worst I have ever seen, from anyone, not just Michigan."
On this I agree. The fact this much talent - whatever age - cannot even be AVERAGE against the UConns or Akrons is beyond troubling. There is 1 NFL high draft pick and another probably late NFL pick or free agent type. So you need to plug 3 holes. Even more troubling is this is now systematic. Other than Fitz's year in 2011 with Molk and young Lewan Schofield we have not had a consistent year long ability to do basic run blockin against average defenses for half a decade (and will be the case next year too). It is scary really.
2010 - leading non QB rusher was V Smith at 600 yards, not much better than Fitz output last year being suspended, hurt, and not playing well in most of the other games.
2009 - Minor and Brown together combined for 1K... so I guess in the past 5 years that is our 2nd best output.
To put that in perspective Hyde has 600 and Hall 520 already for OSU this year - and they have a 3rd RB with 200. That is 1300+ yds with 4-6 games to go.
How many OL transfered out after Rich Rod became thte coach and brought in a system change, and on top of that Rich Rod's offense never really emphasized the RB. In 2009 your right we weren't that great but that was kinda team wide. In 2010, Vincent Smith was probably the best RB on the roster with Fitz hurt and he's what 5'7" 180lbs? Definitely not the 235lb Beast that Hyde is and not the speedster Hall is either. Also in 2010 you had a QB breaking rushing records so it wasn't all bad and you can't blame this coaching staff on things that happened before them. This is what happens when attrition hits a program, Ohio is in an absolutely different place than we are right now and their better for it. They did have that off year in 2011 but that team still had tons of NFL talent on it and if Braxton starts day 1 on that team I think they win more ball games because Bauserman didn't even deserve a uniform. Most teams groom guys behind the starters on the OL but there's been no one to groom or the guy hasn't worked out. Behind Molk the only center on our roster was Miller and last year he wasn't ready(still isn't) so they moved Barnum to C but at the last minute switched to Mealer because Barnum couldn't snap, but Mealer couldn't make the line calls. This year you have young, inexperience OL who are not ready to play football at a BIg Ten level. If we didn't have a Dual Threat QB like Devin we would be royally screwed so at least Rich Rod gave us that but it will take years to get this program where it used to be and really hasn't been since maybe 2006 if not before.
Part of the problem was Bryant being hurt at the start of the season; I think the coaches pinned a lot of hopes on him and were sort of in a holding pattern until he returned. After he was back and proved to be ineffective, then they were like, oh shit, we can't do manball now. I think they went into that PSU game fully expecting to run for 5 ypc with the OL just blowing guys off the ball and ended up very surprised. Bosch was probably good enough to start against IU, but they just didn't want to burn his redshirt. He is the first true freshman to start at OL in forever.
This game will say a lot about how the offense has progressed, and whether the spread concepts are going to stay or not. If the U-M offense is shut down, then I don't know where they go from here. Hopefully they don't panic too much, because a lot of decent offenses look like crap at Spartan Stadium.
"He is the first true freshman to start at OL in forever." Or at least since 2007, when Justin Boren started 13 games.
as long as we don't try to power run it against MSU. You thought 27 for 27 was a sh*tty documentary, wait till I show you -2 for 27
We got 27 yards on negative two carries? BEST RUSHING AVERAGE EVER!!!
The average would equal negative 13.5 yards per carry!
This isn't simple division...it's the amount of yardage you gain per attempt. If we gain 27 yards on -2 carries, how many yards would we gain on one positive carry? That's what yards/attempt measures.
The answer in this case = infinity
So, a simple sign error has not only fixed the run blocking, but improved it to a point where we have the single most prolific rushing attack ever? That's actually a fairly significant development and a hitherto unknown side-effect of mathematics. One of the many reasons I like this place so much.
the average could never be more than 99 yards.
If -2 runs gives us 27 yards wouldn't that mean -4 would give us 54? and the -1 whould be 13.5 so positive runs lower the average? I'm confused..... Also could mean -2 on a baseline.... if we were to run 30 times, we'd have to run 28 instead and win 27 more yards? that could be more logic.... so air it out?
Line em up and let's play. They're all on scholarship and coached by well-paid professionals. It's us against them. May the best team win.
I thought we were positioning at least 7 of the biggest guys on our team on the OL. You know, to avoid a preventable death for Devin Gardner.
have an extra heavy behind and between the center and each guard protecting the A gaps?
If we are starting Magnuson at RG, I have to believe we'll see the more spread-based concepts we saw against Indiana. Don't get me wrong--there will still be plenty of under center stuff, but starting Mags is an admission that MANBALL will not be the focus of our offense.
I think our best shot at winning is utilizing a heavy dose of max protect to snuff the double-a blitzes and letting Gallon and Funchess try to win their match-ups outside.
I actually think the big key for us will be our defense; we need to hold them to 17 points or less to have a decent chance, IMO. Obviously, life gets tough for our defense if we're giving-up short fields or pick-sixes on offense.
Does their inconsistent offense justify the Mattison bend-but-don't-break strategy? Or are they weak enough to ramp up the pressure and take a few more chances. Hopefully a healthy MF Jake Ryan negates this choice.
I think we should take chances and pressure them. the worst thing would be to allow Connor Cook to get in rhythm with easy throws because we are playing way off the receivers. Get him off his spot early. I bet that is what State will do to Devin
Blitz blitz blitz blitz.
I have never seen a team as terrible as this years Spartan squad strike so much unwarranted fear into my fellow fan base.
I don't care what they did against 3 of the worst teams in college football. Thats like saying we are as good as Baylor after Indiana.
Have confidence in this Defense, because besides one half against Indiana they have been the best unit in the Big 10 besides MSU. The offense has spotted so many points to our opponents it's ridiculous. And the D almost bailed us out of the PSU game save a couple amazing catches and missed timings. They had one bad half against Indiana. This same Indiana team has put up huge points all season and took it to the Buckeyes for 49 points at the end of last season. Hanging our heads is silly.
For once we have the bye week and this offense is in our wheelhouse. IMO if Devin can keep from turning the ball over on the wrong side of the field we will win by a lot. Sure MSU's D is stout, but you have to score points and its obvious that Michigan can score the damn ball.
Their offense is just as inconsistant as ours. They lit up indiana and illinois but couldn't score on Purdue. if it where any group besides our O line having issues It's just worry or uncertainty about what Michigan offense will show up. The thing we aren't really looking at tho is our defense VS. their offense. They're not going to stop us all day with their D. We need our defense to step up and put the breaks on sparty's offense and possibly score or atleast give the offense great field position.
But we haven't had problems moving the ball in any game. We put up points on everyone but Akron. Our offense is much better than theirs, it is much more consistent, it is just liable to turnovers.
He seemed to find a rhythm last saturday against Illinois after stringing together some completions. Granted it was Illinois, but he looked good. Would be ideal to rattle/pressure him early.
Sorry this is the stuff dreams are made of. Mattison did not bring extra pressure versus a freshman in Happy Valley. So he is not going to suddenly change strategy now. The few times we brought pressure to Hackenberg he looked like... well a freshman. The bend dont break lets these QBs get into rhythms and gain confidence which is why you get explosions from the like of Akron in the 2nd half, Hackenberg (at times), Indiana (oh its just the system) etc. UConn and CMU did not do much but just inferior QBing. This is the deal with the devil Mattison has - keep everything inside and in front (except for I guess PSU at end of the game and Indiana all 2nd half) and in return for that allow QBs to get into a comfortable rhythym. MSU OL pass protect has probably been the best in the Big 10 this season - they give up almost no sacks so Cook is going to be back there all day picking out his targets.
We also intercepted two passes when bringing 4 pass rushers.
I doubt that we are game planning around the right guard position. We wont put him out there unless he has shown better in practice than the competition. And we wouldn't put in a guy who has shown worse just because he theoretically fits the style we have in mind. And we definitely aren't changing our game plan based on who the right guard is. We haven't even changed the game plan to satisfy mgoblog!
Our gameplan against Indiana was decidedly different from anything we've seen this season. It's closest relative was ND. If we KNOW we're going to line-up in shotgun over 50% of the time and/or pass more from under center, wouldn't we want the best OL for that gameplan?
Magnuson is not a drive blocker. Borges knows this. If he's starting, we're not going all out MANBALL.
I just think we're reading too much into it. Magnuson started against Indiana because Kalis had not been playing well. Do you think if Magnuson couldn't go, we would have put Kalis in and said, "well, now we'll just have the MANBALL"?
Where is the threat?
Those quotes look like they were formatted by an aerdale.