It's just like if The Knowledge was a douchebag frat boy!
there would have to be some to wash away
It's just like if The Knowledge was a douchebag frat boy!
"This is not hazing. I hardly call having to run stairs as hazing."
You should probably go back and reread the article.
I never made a comment about the stairs not being covered in crisco.
My point was that running the stairs like that is tame. And having tennis balls slapshot at you, while maybe painful, isn't going to kill you.
You all need to stop acting like over protective mothers. No one made the kid pledge.
Just hit 'Enter' once to start a new paragraph. This isn't Microsoft Word. Don't you even go back to look at your posts after you hit 'Save'? This is really simple editing stuff, and I feel confident that you can do it.
Never been more glad to have no idea what I am talking about.
Um, I don't know if you saw the original post, but I would say that having to traverse stairs which were intentionally made hazardous while being poked and prodded by your peers-to-be (assuming you are accepted after all the humiliation) has both feet in the definition of "hazing". The fact that people actually chose to attempt this climb does not relieve SAE of responsibility for the situation.
lol frats.. i didn't need to pay to have friends or big parties in college
hazing is retarded.. all the frats near my house in college all got busted so the end result was them coming to my house to party every wk so they wouldn't get busted. I didn't mind, just as long as they would of stopped bothering me to rush every 5 secs they partied at my house.
Were you cool and/or popular in college? If yes, or even no, write a post pointing out that you were in a casual, subversive and, of course, condescending way.
It really never gets old. I've never been in a frat, I know nothing about them, so I'll make an ignorant observation. Hazing like this is immature, and my fraternity never did stupid things like that. However I will admit that when I was 18, I was a little immature, and I did do some stupid shit in college.
Articles about fraternities are always negative. I never see a story about all the community service I did with my brothers, or life lasting bond that I made with them after going through things like hell week. My father is 58 years old, and he just got back from a trip that consisted of 30 of his fraternity brothers.
I knew a few guys that made this argument. The majority of the time it stemmed from a time where we let the girls they were with into the party and not them, or someone that rushed and got blackballed.
I'm glad you edited your post. You made a really good point about frats being more than just superficial friendships, that last little bit about "not getting girls, etc." was ruining it for me the way you said it at first. I was never in a frat and didn't really care for the ones at my school (WMU), but I understand that at some schools its completely different. I have a lot of friends at other schools who pledged and loved it and didn't turn into stereotypical douchbags. Here's something I saw on a friends facebook page last week, you'll probably enjoy it pdgoblue25.
Most guys I know who dislike frat guys, to a certain extent myself included, was because there is always someone looking to fight for no other reason than because he knows he has 50 people to back him up.
Is a fair point. I can only attest to my fraternity, but there were a few on campus that we hated for the same reasons.
I wasn't in a frat, but at some point, do any of the brothers turn to each other and say, "isn't this a little immature"? I mean I would expect 21-22 yr olds to be a little above some of those things. That sounds a lot like what a senior in high school would do trying to be more "college".
I wasn't in a frat either, and I can't believe I missed out on all of that fun!
As a male undergraduate college student, there are very few times when I think "isn't this a little immature?" and even if I do, and the answer is yes, I'll probably do it anyway.
I was a Sigma Chi from 80-81 and we were subjected to nothing like what the OP describes. There was a significant amount of sleep deprivation, house cleaning and general mind-fuck during hell week but that's about it. I loved the the house cause I was a transfer from CMU and didnt really know anybody on campus and didnt want to live in the dorms anymore.
Now mind you a few years after I graduated the Sigs also got bounced from campus for doing things like underage drinking and shooting pellet guns at West Quad but that was after I was gone.......
We just threw eggs at cars and hit golf balls off the roof.
Hazing can be fun when it's creatively done.
Yep, we had some sleep deprivation, work, exercise, eating some gross stuff, and lots of binge drinking. There was never any violence, public humiliation, or anything sexual. It taught me that I could handle a lot, and left my friends and I with some awesome memories and stories.
Maybe things have changed at UM since I was there in the 70's. When I looked for a frat to join I wanted one that respected their building and each other. Not all frats were the same. Hopefully there are still some "gentlemen" fraternities in existence.
I never did know where that money went
I never was sure it was well spent
But I paid it
I'm no troublecauser and besides I figured that's life
If you want good friends it gonna cost you
In all seriousness though, I never joined a fraternity at U of M but never really had a problem with anyone who did. As a previous poster said, most seemed to have their shit together and used it to their advantage.
a college freshman my roommate and I went to a frat party. A girl I went to high school and her roommate both worked for the college newspaper. The two girls wanted my roommate and I to infiltrate the frat and tell them about their meetings and pledge process - because they wanted to publish things in the paper and get the frat busted. We refused - but then other writers from the paper approached us - it was crazy. THE POINT being, there are people always trying to bring other people down...it is not fair how the pledges are treated. If you don't like the pledging process - DON'T PLEDGE! Yes the things pledges go through often times are pretty disgusting - but they can leave anytime and it is their decision to be there.
The only thing that strikes me at all is one pledge drinking the vomited gold fish of another pledge. Other than that the rest of it sounds relatively amusing.
Church youth groups and YFC meetings used to do that stuff, hardly limited to frat pledges.
Weren't they already suspended once recently?
If I recall from having been member of SAE, they were on probation recently, an had been suspended some time before that instance and been allowed back to Greek life. I may be incorrect as I am from another off campus chapter but that is what I recall from meeting the Michigan brothers at convention.
Yeah, the Sig Eps burned their house down, must have been 10-12 years ago and got their charter revoked. The University actually had the house torn down and Weill Hall was built on the site. I had no idea they allowed a new SAE chapter back onto campus.
Sig Eps, and SAE are totally different fraternities. And Sig Ep didnt burn their house down. This happened in the mid-90s a bit longer than ten years ago.
Here is the story. In the early 90s Sig Ep national/local alumni dump a ton of money into their fraternity house. It went from being a dump to being just beautiful on the inside, it was really really nice. Total moron of a young brother in the house on a power trip makes some kid drink till he almost dies. Kid goes to hospital and everyone comes (rightly) down hard on the house. National yoinks the charter from the fraternity but doesnt move the kids out till the semester ends. Kids feel like they were abandoned by their national over the actions of one moron.
Here is the issue, angry kids still have months to live in pristine house before the semester ends. Guess what the theme of every party for the next few months is? See how many bottles you can blast through the nearest wall/window was what I remembered most. The kids destroy the house to the point that it is totally unlivable.
As usual for Ann Arbor when the kids are out, vagrants move in...vagrants burn down house, though considering the massive damage the kids did to the house, it may have just been an insurance scam.
How do I know all this? Moron guy had pledged my fraternity and the only reason anyone gave him any time of day is that he was quasi-on the football team. Eventually we just booted him because he was a gigantic idiot/tub of goo. He then pledged Sig Eps and made it through their pledge process. My best friend was a Sig Ep through all this, so I got the full story coming and going.
The whole point is that it was a sad story for all involved, Sig Ep lost a chapter that had been in existence for longer than 100 years, and the kids were out on the street looking for a new place to live. Too bad they werent a bit more mature, but I do understand their anger, if not their actions in destroying a beautiful home.
Thanks for this. I was on campus shortly thereafter, and the house was a burned-out shell. It was the subject of urban legend. The craziest (and most obviously bullshit) rumor I heard was that the SigEps were selling coke and other drugs from their house and burned it down to cover the evidence.
Just FYI...SAE (Sigma Alpha Epsilon) is a completely different house than SigEp (Sigma Phi Epsilon). Honest mistake, lots of people confuse them. SigEp was rechartered on campus and has a "balanced man" program for pledging, strictly no hazing.
Nor any other frat.
what you non-bros don't understand is that in 20 years we'll all be laughing about this as we cruise the mediterranean in the yachts we bought with money earned during our rapid ascension to the top of the frat-connection dominated business world, yo
Cool story, bro
Why work hard when you can milk conections you don't deserve? Everyone does it but to elevate it to a point of pride is rather despicable.
You're sort of an embarassment to UofM.
I was kidding though.
that fraternities do is bad for the whole system, gives them a poor public image, and does not encourage strong brotherhood IMO. I was an active member of a fraternity at U-M and our initiation was designed to get future members to understand fully the responsibilities of being brothers to each other. There was no physical or mental abuse, no idiotic pranks, and no alcohol (until after the whole thing was over). It was created as a reflective, solemn ceremony not an ordeal that had to be survived to show "tough" you are or how loyal of a brother you were going to be. I don't really understand why the national organizations of a lot of these fraternities haven't overhauled their ceremonies and rituals to something more ethical and that promotes higher ideals. Also, these types of abusive ceremonies will only promote legal problems in today's world.
I'm really surprised with a topic like this, that not a single person posted "Cool Story Bro".
Agree that's some over-the-top shit. You can still haze the shit out of your pledges without resorting to homo-erotic sadism.
I think brotherhood can be a very positive thing but what does it have to do with this kind of stupidity?
If you wish to be in a fraternity and to talk about all of the positives of such then fabulous but what is the point of all this degradation? These acts, regardless of how harmless some wish to potray them, clearly constitute hazing. Hazing is illegal. Period.
Why do so many wish to defend these acts that have nothing to do with brotherhood and forming life long bonds and are clearly illegal?
For those that complain about the negative PR that fraternities allegedly get, it is these types of juvenille rituals that cause that negative PR. You of all people should be against these illegal activities.
I absolutely agree with most of your points. If stuff went over the line at my chapter I would tell the right people.
The perception argument (at least mine) is that M probably has around 30 greek organizations, and they all take flak for this. On the other hand, it's rarely reported when the greek system produces statistically significant higher GPA's. And the amount of money and community service time put back into the community is also rarely noted outside the greek system.
I try not to judge someone based on whether or not they want to go through the frat stuff but just quit. Don't ruin it for the rest of the guys that can hack it. I went through hell week and it blows but I sucked it up. If someone quits, someone quits. Its another thing to take down a fraternity in the process. Not to mention the poor kid will likely have to transfer schools.
Half the world is straight and free, and the rest are SAE's!
It's hard to imagine a bunch of automotive engineers ever getting that rowdy with new members, but damn it, rules are rules.
I've heard of a lot worse hazing, even from SAE. The only thing that is truly disgusting on that list is the whole drinking of puke. (Not that any of it is fun....)