UM vs MSU vs OSU Recruiting Article
Interesting article on the recruiting battles between UM, MSU, and OSU around the midwest in the Detroit News. Some shots at us, but for the most part pretty fair.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120202/OPINION03/202020361
Highlights include:
He was especially irritated by the Buckeyes' poaching of one-time top Spartan commit Se'Von Pittman, something his mentor, Jim Tressel, wouldn't have done. "They've got a new coach, and it's different," Dantonio said. "I would say it's pretty unethical, in the end."
Kalis endured the scrutiny in his hometown and stood firm, perhaps the first sign Michigan was officially back in the fray. A larger sign: Of the 15 players on the Detroit News Blue Chip list, nine signed with Michigan and two with Michigan State.
February 2nd, 2012 at 12:11 PM ^
Dantonio is an idiot, Tressel would have never let him have Pittman in the first place . . . an inability to see you were only plan C after OSU and Mich.
February 2nd, 2012 at 1:35 PM ^
is that Ohio did a lot of recruiting FOR Michigan State and now they are recruiting against them. It is well know, with Tressle Jr, Dantonio, Nardouchey, etc. on staff at MSU Ohio pushed their leftovers to MSU so they would not end up at Michigan. Now, that pipeline is not only gone, the Douche squad is getting cherry picked by Urbz.
Regarding the MSU class, the fact that local media is putting them in the same category as us and Ohio is ridiculous. Their class is not that good. That may not eventually matter on the field, but let's not make stuff up.
February 2nd, 2012 at 12:21 PM ^
Spartan fans are funny because when someone says our class is better they say "recruiting rankings don't even matter" but they brag about getting the top ranked player in the state and how their average star ranking makes their class better than it is.
They want it both ways: recruiting rankings matter when it suits them. Dantonio can develop talent, lets give the man credit. But if Hoke and his staff can develop talent too, we will be superior to them for a long time because of the better talent we bring in.
February 2nd, 2012 at 12:23 PM ^
Sour Grapes to me.
February 2nd, 2012 at 12:28 PM ^
The article doesn't really do enough to emphasize that MSU's recruiting class is far, far distant from M and O. The entire theme makes it seem as though the 3 programs are on, or near, equal footing. This is not the case. MSU was bulldozed by Michigan months ago, and OSU more recently. Neither program bothered to stop and see what passed under their wheels.
February 2nd, 2012 at 3:18 PM ^
Not being from Michigan, I can plainly see that the article is playing to the local in-state crowd, many of whom support MSU. They don't want to offend Sparty fans so they make it seem like the recruiting is equal. It is not.
February 2nd, 2012 at 12:33 PM ^
The next Detroit news media article critical of MSU or Dantonio will be the first. For whatever reason they are the "fair haired child that can do no wrong" in Michigan. Fortunately the national media is having none of it and to the rest of the world the B1G has simply reverted back to the "Big 2-little 10" meme of years gone by.
February 2nd, 2012 at 12:49 PM ^
If by "the rest of the world", you mean Ohio State and Michigan blogs, then yes. You guys don't get it. You've had significantly higher recruiting rankings than MSU for the past decade. And yet, Dreadlock Jesus is still going to graduate without beating his Little Brother. Why do you think recruiting rankings this year mean so much more?
The amount you guys celebrate recruiting is flooring. MSU doesn't get as much bragging out of four years of actual victories as you do out of National Signing Day.
February 2nd, 2012 at 1:08 PM ^
already bitter?
February 2nd, 2012 at 8:47 PM ^
get over it. We have a better class. marky d can coach up jail birds that is for sure.
February 2nd, 2012 at 3:31 PM ^
You don't follow enough bloggers/writers. I've seen big east, SEC, Notre Dame, random national guys, etc, remark on how it looks like its going back to Big 2. Pretty much every Big Ten recruiting round up states it
February 2nd, 2012 at 12:35 PM ^
Any article that places MSU in the same league as UM and OSU when it comes to recruiting is a big win for MSU.
MSU has had a good run but as it relates to recruiting, this year is what's going to happen to them in the future-- they'll get a couple of 4-stars here and there, but on the whole they'll have to continue to win with 3-star players. UM and OSU (along with ND) will dominate the Midwest.
February 2nd, 2012 at 12:46 PM ^
The recruiting class this year has as many 4 star kids as the class in 2010 did. One important thing that Coach D has done that nobody seems to realize is that he has lifted the floor of the program. In his first 2 years, our class consisted mostly of 2 stars with some 3 sprinkled in. Now, the classes are mostly 3 stars with some 4s sprinkled in. The back-to-back 11 wins came on the backs of the 2 and 3 star kids while last year's entire class (except 2) redshirted. You can talk about decline all you want, but IMO the program is on the way up. It will be interesting to see in the next 2-3 years what the ceiling is with a resurgent Michigan and OSU.
February 2nd, 2012 at 2:00 PM ^
The point about lifting the overall quality of the recruiting class is a good one as it speaks to broadening the depth of talent across the roster. Clearly, Dantonio has raised both the talent level and performance of MSU-- with 9 or more wins in three out of the last four years-- and it will be interesting to see where they go from here.
I think that Wisconsin is their ceiling-- a program that has a consistent system, recruits well enough (even if not at an elite level), focuses on player development and churns out double digit wins and BCS appearances. That's not a bad ceiling to have as Wisconsin has been one or two wins away from a BCS title shot over the last couple of seasons.
The other way that they could go is Iowa, which has decent success, every now and then manages a great season or two, but has slipped to more like a 6-8 win team over the last couple of years.
Dantonio is good enough that MSU will always be competitive, but it'll be interesting to see how good they can get.
February 2nd, 2012 at 2:37 PM ^
Your best recruiting class in the Rivals era, by far, was 2009. After that, in terms of number of 4-star recruits, was 2006 then 2004 and 2002 (all pre-Dantonio). Your last two years have been among the worst during the ten year period.
The 2009 kids were upperclassmen this past season and will be again this season. I think it's tough to argue that MSU is on the rise, but I understand that you have to look for reasons to feel good about your program. Dantonio capitalized on RR's arrival in Ann Arbor that first year, but that was a one-time windfall, the data would suggest. It's going to be an uphill battle for State to stay competitive on a consistent basis.
February 2nd, 2012 at 3:31 PM ^
This, exactly, GoBlogSparty.
The other reason for MSU fans to not go nuts about the recruiting class rankings is that we've been consistently signing smaller classes. Dantonio has never signed more than the 23 he did in 2007. Which also shows that John L. Smith didn't leave the place in as bad of a state as was commonly thought.
February 2nd, 2012 at 8:52 PM ^
when John L. Smith is a better recruiter than marky d.
February 2nd, 2012 at 12:39 PM ^
And replace his mentor and hero, Nick Saban???
February 2nd, 2012 at 1:03 PM ^
Local media will always pander to MSU fans, because they wouldn't read the paper if it contained the truth about MSU's third-class status. Michigan fans already know that MSU is inferior and don't need to told again.
February 2nd, 2012 at 1:14 PM ^
than Sparty on both Scout and Rivals, even though they lost their head coach.
What I find odd, though, in the rankings between the 2 sites, Nebraska was rated 25th or so on Rivals and 50th on Scout....seems like a big disparity.
February 2nd, 2012 at 1:28 PM ^
Do we actually think Draymond Green is going to play against us, or not? Legit question and not Sparty obsessing since we play them this week. If Novak is shutting down their number two threat all day, I think we beat them at Breslin. If he plays hobbled, I think the result is the same. If he's at full strength, it will be a tough game to win.
February 2nd, 2012 at 2:44 PM ^
Irritates me that since Michigan imploded under RR, suddenly Sparty considers us an actual rival. Isn't the overall record 67-32 or something like that?
Be clear on this, oh brothers in green up the road. Our rival is ohio. They have tradition, they have Woody and Bo, and there is parity in the programs. Just because we have endured a regrettable blip doesn't mean you have been elevated anywhere past Perles levels.
February 2nd, 2012 at 4:25 PM ^
This kind of talk infuriates me. Of course MSU is one of our rivals. UM fans know they're not our primary rival, but when they beat us it ticks me off just as much as losing to OSU. And we're not "suddenly their rival". We've been rivals for years by virtue of sharing the same state.
The fact is that they've beaten us 4 years in a row and they circle the week we play them as their most important game of the season. They've been more successful in the short term than we have and it's time we admit that rather than drawing on past success a la Notre Dame fans.
Suck it up and acknowledge the fact that MSU is a real team and a rival. There's no need to downplay their successes the past few seasons; it makes us all look petty.
February 2nd, 2012 at 4:45 PM ^
It really ticks you off just as much as losing to OSU? Dang. And yes, they have been more successful than us lately thanks to Rich Rod, but there is substantial evidence suggesting that will no longer be the case. I see no harm in pointing this out.
February 2nd, 2012 at 8:54 PM ^
say msu was our rival? Never was, never will be.
February 2nd, 2012 at 9:51 PM ^
How could you not think they're a rival? Obviously OSU is the main rival, but teams all over the country have more than one rivalry. I don't understand why people like you don't consider MSU one.
February 2nd, 2012 at 8:57 PM ^
You are correct. lil bro has never been and never will be our rival. ohio will always be our rival. no one cares about moo u.
February 2nd, 2012 at 2:46 PM ^
...that's 100 for me.
February 2nd, 2012 at 2:53 PM ^
So you can understand if the Spartans are feeling a little territorial. They had their pick of the state while Rich Rodriguez was chasing fast guys all across the country, and they posted back-to-back 11-victory seasons and beat the Wolverines four straight times.
Say what? The Spartans "had their pick of the state while Rich Rodriguez was chasing fast guys all over the country"?
Wojnowski hasn't got a prayer of backing that one up. It is a fact-free assertion. A myth. A lie, about which the readers of MGoBlog know better.
Wojnowski should have checked with Angelique, who has forgotten more about Michigan football than Wojnowski will ever know.
February 2nd, 2012 at 3:26 PM ^
I don't know how much of it was because RichRod wasn't after the in state guys or the lack of prior relationship he had with high school coaches in the area, but MSU did pretty well in state while he was here.
Rivals has them with:
7 out of the top 10 in state in the class of 2009 (We had 2, OSU 1)
5/10 in 2010 (UM 1, PSU 2, Iowa 1, Oregon 1)
3/10 in 2011 (UM 4, PSU/Tenn/Fl 1)
Say what you want but MSU have done a pretty good job in state up until last year. Again, I am inclined to chalk it up to lack of connections with high schools in the area more than "chasing fast guys all over the country."
February 2nd, 2012 at 4:01 PM ^
Either Rodriguez wasn't trying to get the best in-state athletes or he wasn't successful at it. Either way, it was on of RR's fatal flaws. You may want to check out Brian's handy graph in yesterday's post:
| Touted Recruits | Head To Head | Signee Rankings [Rivals] | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Year | Mich | MSU | Other | Mich | MSU | Mich | MSU | ||
| 2010 | 1 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 2, 11, 12, 22 | 1, 5, 7, 8, 9, 18, 19, 24, 28 | ||
| 2011 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 4, 5, 6, 7, 19, 25 | 1, 9, 10, 14, 26 | ||
| 2012 | 5 | 2 | 1 | 6 | 1? | 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 21 | 1, 7, 13, 28 | ||
February 2nd, 2012 at 4:58 PM ^
No, I am not tallking about 2010-12, when you are presumably comparing Hoke to HypotheticalRodriguez.
Let's just ask Mr. Brian Cook, shall we? We shall:
The last two years were a wash. Michigan State picked up four more head to head battles, all of them for Ren/Southeastern kids. Michigan won a few, mostly Cass Tech kids. The state continued to bleed talent outside its borders.
2010 was odd because three of the four-star prospects in state were quarterbacks. Michigan won the derby for Devin Gardner, then Robert Bolden picked Penn State; Joe Boisture was left over for State. By the end of the year it was clear he was massively overrated, and he's already left the program. Gholston and Hicks were in bad places for Michigan recruiting; Max Bullough was a legacy. CJ Olaniyan also picked Penn State. A bit farther down the list Michigan made a bad choice by taking Austin White over Nick Hill and inexplicably ignored eventual Iowa commit Austin Gray. Their on-again, off-again recruitment of Jon Hankins (and his presence at SE) eventually turned him off; he went to Ohio State and contributed there his first year.
Last year the top player in the state was again a Ren kid who went to State. DeAnthony Arnett flirted with instate schools but always seemed headed elsewhere; he ended up at Tennessee. Anthony Zettel was a lifelong Michigan fan that Rodriguez/turmoil/etc eventually blew. The next four guys ended up at Michigan; further down Michigan lost SE's Ed Davis to State and Jacob Fisher to The Process.
http://mgoblog.com/content/brief-history-instate-recruiting-rodriguez-and-now
Mostly "a wash"; an era (two and a half years an 'era'?) in which MSU had some peculiar inroads to some peculiarly untouchable future Spartan thugs -- Gholston, et al; almost forgetting about the issues that Rodriguez was dealing with, i.e., an NCAA investigation and rumors of an early firing.
Nothing like MSU "having its pick." Not even close.
February 2nd, 2012 at 5:36 PM ^
Come on man, think for yourself instead of accepting Brian's opinion as fact. Frankly, everything above is an excuse used to protect the charred remains of RR's Michigan legacy.
I have no doubt this (Hoke's) coaching staff closes deals with at least two of Gholston, Hicks, Davis, and Hankins - if they can get into Cleveland Glenville for Frank Clark and now William Henry, they can without a doubt get into PSL schools like Southeastern and Rennaisance. RR couldn't, sadly. It's painfully obvious from listening to an array of HS coach quotes that he didn't commit enough resources and attention to the state, which turned off local prospects. It would have been nice if RR wouldn't have called Gholston Tom too.....helps to, you know, actually know the guy's name when you're hosting him and trying to close a deal. And if he's on Michigan, he's a feisty Novak-ian player rather than a dirty one. I'd love him on our squad.
Brian just glosses over Olinayan...is Michigan blocked out of Warren Mott? Did he have a connection to PSU? No, and no. RR couldn't get the deal done. And who made the bad decision to pursue Austin White over Nick Hill? Poor player evaluation, RR.
I know if RR was here we wouldn't be looking at a signing day haul that included Ojemudia and Funchess (FH Harrison is historically a Spartan stronghold way more impenetrable than any PSL institution). Other in-state guys that I think would have slipped from our grasp had RR been left in charge: Ben Braden (probably to Wisconsin), and James Ross (to ND).
Just stop fighting to protect the reputation of a man who failed in a multitude of ways when he was in charge in Ann Arbor. It's over, thank God, and we're all much better off for it.
February 2nd, 2012 at 8:06 PM ^
Let's see:
* "Come on man, think for yourself instead of accepting Brian's opinion as fact. Frankly, everything above is an excuse used to protect the charred remains of RR's Michigan legacy." {Great. Get emotional right away. Start with opinions.}
* "I have no doubt this (Hoke's) coaching staff closes deals with at least two of Gholston, Hicks, Davis, and Hankins ..." {More opinions ...}
* "It's painfully obvious from listening to an array of HS coach quotes that he didn't commit enough resources and attention to the state ..." {MORE opinions ...}
* "And who made the bad decision to pursue Austin White over Nick Hill?" {Better question: Who gives a @#$%? Nick Hill will likely never start a game for MSU and he is merely a slightly better-than-average kick returner. Hardly a game-changer ... good character, though.}
* "I know if RR was here we wouldn't be looking at a signing day haul that included Ojemudia and Funchess ..." {Back to opinions ...}
February 2nd, 2012 at 8:15 PM ^
Of course they are opinions. So are Brian's words above. If we couldn't postulate this would be a pretty awful message board.
That said, what high school coaches are on record as saying isn't an opinion. At least not my opinion.
February 2nd, 2012 at 9:18 PM ^
The question wasn't "Who's a better recruiter, Hoke or Rodriguez?" And the question wasn't, "Did Rodriguez miss some instate-Michigan guys?"
If those two lame questions had been the debate topics, I'd have passed it up entirely.
No, I posted only to call out Bob Wojnowski on a laughable assertion; that the state of Michigan was Dantonio/MSU's "for the taking" because Rodriguez & co. were elsewhere recruiting speedy little guys. All I am pointing out is that Wojnowski went out of bounds. He let slip with one of the old discreditable Rodriguez memes, and I am calling him on it.
February 2nd, 2012 at 9:53 PM ^
It only annoys you because deep down inside you know there is a lot of truth to it.
February 2nd, 2012 at 5:25 PM ^
This was already linked on the front page, brah
February 2nd, 2012 at 5:39 PM ^
According to Sporting News' Twitter feed, Barry Alvarez is filng a formal complaint with Jim Delany about Uran's recruiting practices, saying "We don't want to be the SEC."