UM vs. Duke--Symbolism in the NYTimes

Meh.

to tell 18 year old kids where they should have gone to school. Stupid article.

I don't have a problem with black colleges but to say this...

"the Fab Five had simply made a wealthy white institution wealthier and had missed a grand opportunity to catapult a historically black college or university to the mountaintop of March Madness."

Is ridiculous...  Do you really think that had the Fab Five gone to, say, Grambling we would have ever heard of the Fab Five?  Grambling is generally acknowledged as the most well known HBC by the masses and it's still not a "big name" school.  That's not what it does - Grambling doesn't have top 10 recruiting classes, to think that had the Fab Five gone to Grambling that all of a sudden Grambling would have been as big as they were at Michigan is a preposterous claim rooted in nothing but jealousy.  You have to realize that the Fab 5 were what they were not only because of how amazingly talented they were but because they went to big name school like Michigan.  Heck, even if they had gone to say, George Mason I still doubt it would have been anything close to what they accomplished by being attached to an instantly recognizable name like Michigan.

/end of rant

equate to "black empowerment" any more than attending Michigan??

if anything, attending a white college (unfair characterization, fyi) like Michigan and breaking down cultural barriers on the grand, "white" stage was better for black empowerment, no?

Also, Michigan is not a white college. It's a public school with a long-standing history of black success in the classroom and especially in athletics. This guy is an idiot.

Not an exaggeration. I've got a lot of respect for NYT, but Grant Hill's Op-Ed completely mistook Jalen Rose's comments to start off this "controversy" in THIS paper. And then they follow it up with this article, which basically takes a "controversy" they started and sums it up as such:

"Jalen Rose called Grant Hill an Uncle Tom, but shouldn't, because I think HE'S and Uncle Tom."

Seriously - that's  what I gather from this article. How is this responsible at all?

On top of that, nevermind whether they would have been successful at a Grambling or a Florida A&M - how about we recognize that A) part of what made them special was they did this at MICHIGAN, at a time when the epitome of strong and silent was the AD here, while they were loud and rambunctious, and B) Two of the most important parts of the Fab Five, Jalen Rose and Juwan Howard, were poor kids who relied heavily on their families for support - and were from Midwestern inner cities. Because HBCUs were started to force states (that didn't want to open enrollment to non-whites) to comply with the Morrill Act, and because the Midwest was always integrated (de jure), Howard and Rose would have had to travel ~1000 miles as immature 18 years olds to even begin doing what he's asking of them. If they were mature enough to do that, Jalen would've been mature enough to never think Hill was a Tom in the first place, and this whole discussion would never have happened, and I wouldn't have been dumber for reading this article.

Then again, their immaturity is what made that documentary so captivating, and what made their time at Michigan so memorable. This article still sucks.

Dumbest thing that I could possibly read today

The whole concept of black colleges never really made any sense to me at least in this day and age. This writer does not understand that Michigan itself was instrumental in the Fab 5 hype. In order to have such a big impact, you need to have a big stage, Michigan provided this.

The New York Times never seems to have a problem when the Left calls Colin Powell or Justice Clarence Thomas an Uncle Tom. But How dare someone call a basketball player an Uncle Tom. ZOMG that's so taboo.

Well considering that the Fab Five weren't exactly a package deal and committed at different times, I doubt they were going to school just for the sake of black empowerment. I think they just wanted to go to a school they liked and had a chance to be successful at. Rhoden's just being controversial for the sake of it IMO. Really reaching for straws with this article.

The one thing I do not  get is why basketball players would want to be recruited by Duke anyway. 

Michigan academic programs rank higher than Duke's. The alumni network is also higher than Duke's and I gotta think that there are just as many Michigan alumnus in upper levels so the good ol' boy network is just as significant with Michigan grads.

Since Duke has higher graduates in their athletic programs, that tells me that most of their players have sports as their second priority.

Of course I also went to a HBCU so my perspective is a little more in line with his. The reaction in this thread to what he wrote is pretty much parallel to what Grant Hill's reaction was to the Fab 5 documentary. It's addressing the verbiage of the message more than the message. 

There's no doubt in my mind that had the Fab 5 had gone to another school, ANY school, they would have had just as much success and been just as much of a phenomeon. However I think what he's trying to get at is that there could have been an additional cultural impact at an HBCU that wouldn't have been possible anywhere else. Would they have been on TV as much at an HBCU? Not at all, at least not until March. Would they have sold as much merchandise? Heck no! But they would have put that school on the map and in the minds of millions of people, especially young black kids. There's also the potential financial impact. That money goes a lot farther at a school Hampton and than it does at Michigan.

I don't completely agree with what he's trying to say but I do understand what he's trying to say, so there's that. 

Michigan is a historically white college?  Okay.  At the risk of sounding controversial, it was U of M that ended up before the Supreme Court on the subject of affirmative action.

NYT=racist race baiters

The term used in academic circles is "Majority institution".  Before everyone started using the HBCU term frequently, people called those schools black schools.  It may not be the politically correct thing to say, but it's not meant to be offensive either.  It's not meant to be a slight against the school.  It just is what it is.

I'm not sure why Mr. Rhoden's education background is, but the majority of HBCU's were founded by white people.  So let's not forget that fact.  Also, those schools do have ridiculously small athletic budgets when compared to UM or other large schools.  While people may think that their impact would have been smaller, then you're being shortsighted.  If for some reason, the Fab Five would have attended Howard University for instance, they probably would've run through their conference and into the tourney, where they could've made a name for themselves and big cash for that school. 

I can't fault a guy for wanting that for schools that do great work, but never get publicity when you look at US News rankings and the like.  And I can't fault a person for being grateful for all the excitement that the Fab 5 brought to campus.

I have read this blog for many years and never really felt the need to comment.  But the comments to this article (that I haven't read yet) are funny.  I created an account to say this: 

If you think that Michigan is not a "White" school, I'd bet dollars to donuts that you are White. lol   

Enrollment in the 2010 report is as follows: 

61.4% White

4.2% Black

4.2% Latino

11% Asian

(They have some other weird categories with 12.6% being non resident aliens, 3% unknown and some other stuff)

For LS&A for example, in raw numbers there were 12,542 White students compared to 927 Blacks and 2120 Asians.  

I applaud the University for its efforts to make the campus more diverse, but being from Detroit (West Side 7 mile) and graduating from the University (c/o 2007 LSA) it sure as hell felt like a White school to me.  (If you haven't guessed yet, I'm also African American)

Something I think that often gets past the majority is this: 

Imagine being a Black student at the University of Michigan.  Over 60% of the students are White (AKA damn near everyone you see).  Those are just the people who actually identified being White in their records.  I couldn't tell you how many people "look white."  So let's take a walk though the Diag, going by the numbers, you don't see another black person but every 24th person you encounter.  Clearly, as I have on many occassions (if not most) you could be on the Diag and never see another Black person at all.  You walk into Angell Hall, there are flyers for IFC Frat things, dance marathon, ultimate frisbee tournaments, and a bunch of other things that do not necessarily cater to the average African American person.  Skeeps - White, Ricks, White, Touchdowns, White, Goodtime Charlies White, (until the brief time where my friends threw parties at Charley's upstairs in 07).  Umm... Main street -White, AAAALLLLL of the fraternities and sororities, those huge houses that are such a part of the University community and the college experience are probably 99% White.  

Let me tell you a story.  Yea we know the IFC has rules on non-Greek people at parties etc etc.  But we also know non-greeks get in.  In any event, during orientation my friends and I tried to go to a "White" frat party I won't name.  And we noticed that almost every Black person who walked up to the Frat was lined up along the fence (with us).  White kids were moseying right on in.  After maybe 20-30 minutes of this, one of the guys said "Why don't they just go home.  Can't they see they aren't wanted?"  I was there during Prop 2, I was there in 03 when the S. Ct. cases came out and I assure you the University of Michigan is very, very, very White.  Down in front, Blue hairs, the pub crawl, exactly what part of that is likely to attract a random Black person? I can't speak for everyone, but I think its a safe bet that although Maroon 5 is good music, a place that plays what would come on their Pandora isn't somewhere I'm dying to go on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday or any day for that matter.  But for the rest of the U, I'm sure they love it.  And, yea, they do play some "Black" music, but its Channel 95.5, ap top 40 stuff.  You won't see Wacka and Jeezy mixed in with Journey any time soon in a Detroit club that caters primarily to African Americans.

What do the Black students do? Other than go to Detroit? Our frats have regular houses that get shut down at an alarming rate.  There was literally one time Kappa Alpha Psi threw a party with one of the frats next door to the Union (maybe in 02 or 03) and the police came and shut the party down.  As I was leaving, I looked at the one next door and someone was literally swinging across the window on something that looked like a chandallier.  They were also having a party and were not interrupted.  

I said all of that to say that Michigan is indeed a White school as evinced by the student demographics and the activities surrounding it that cater to likely White student interests.  If you are a Black student there then you better learn to assimilate, find a ride to Detroit or stay tuned in so you find out when a "Black" party is coming up.  (Black party defined as one that has more Black people, and music you normally listen to than anything else).  By contrast, all of the things that come along with the college experience at an HBCU are catered to our interests.  The step shows, the parties, the frats, the music, the activities, the stores sell the kind of clothes you wear, etc.  It's the little things.  At Michigan we tried to add little pieces of those things as we went along.  Most White students wouldn't recognize our fraternities and sororities by name: Alpha Phi Alpha, Kappa Alpha Psi, Omega Psi Phi, Phi Beta Sigma: sororities Alpha Kappa Alpha, Delta Sigma Theta, Sigma Gamma Rho, Zeta Phi Beta for example.  They are called the Divine Nine and only one, Kappa Alpha Psi was founded on the campus of a predominately White university (IU).  My point is, our frats/sorors are just as large a part of our campus life as Beta Chi or Sigma Nu or Visa Visa Mastercard is for the White students.  They just aren't staples of the University writ large.  And that comes with the territory of being a minority.  

I used to always joke that I went to a different Michigan than other students and to a great degree it is true.  I feel like the experience helped me grow as a person.  I love Michigan, but I am not blind to its problems. I learned to like the Skeeps closing song, found out that Starbucks made me feel cool too and Mafia and beer pong are actually fun.  But I will never, ever understand why Northface is such a big deal and why its cool to wear shorts in 20 degree weather.