UM vs Bama 2 Deep Chart

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August 30th, 2012 at 2:15 AM
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Pdeaner
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Joined: 05/04/2011
MGoPoints: 180
UM vs Bama 2 Deep Chart

 I keep hearing how Alabama has more talent due to their amazing recruiting.  So I wanted to take a look and see what the differences were according to Rivals and ESPN.  Hope I didn't mess up the formatting I have never done this before. 

Also note I only included the players that were listed on the Two Deep depth charts.  So the ratings don't include the whole recruiting classes.  I was really suprised to see how many upper classman3 star guys Bama had on the OL and DL.  Most of their highly rated guys were at LB, CB/S, and RB.  I don't think there is as big a differnce as people think.

  Avg Rivals Stars Avg Rivals Rating
POS Bama UM Bama UM
OFFENSE 3.8 3.6 5.9 5.7
OL 3.6 3.7 5.8 5.7
QB 3.5 4 5.8 5.9
RB 4.5 3.5 6 5.8
TE 3.6 3.3 5.8 5.7
WR 4 3.6 5.9 5.8
DEFENSE 4 3.7 5.9 5.7
DL 3.7 3.9 5.8 5.8
LB 4 3.7 5.9 5.7
Secondary 4.1 3.5 5.9 5.7
Total 3.9 3.7 5.9 5.7

--------------------------------------

  Players in Rivals 250 Avg Rivals Pos Rank
Pos Bama UM Bama UM
OFFENSE 16 12 14 31
OL 4 5 15 36
QB 1 2 14 8
RB 3 2 5 28
TE 3 1 17 24
WR 5 2 16 41
DEFENSE 14 9 20 37
DL 1 5 32 29
LB 8 3 7 35
Secondary 5 1 24 46
Total 30 21 17 34

--------------------------------------

  Avg ESPN Rank Avg ESPN Pos Rank Players in ESPN 150
Pos Bama UM Bama UM Bama UM
OFFENSE 80 77 23 52 7 5
OL 80 76 23 50 2 2
QB 80 81 22 6 0 2
RB 80 78 24 49 2 0
TE 78 77 18 22 0 1
WR 80 77 25 100 3 0
DEFENSE 81 78 16 44 11 3
DL 79 78 28 39 1 2
LB 81 79 7 32 5 1
Secondary 81 76 16 59 5 0
Total 80 77 20 48 18 8

Sorry about the formatting I have tried to fix it but every time I save it goes back to the large verson. [ed-S: fixed. Thanks for doing the research]

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August 30th, 2012 at 2:19 AM | My suggestion: (Score:1 Normal)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 11044

Break the charts up into smaller charts by service. Also, writing your thoughts between each or making observations between charts would make this a great diary.

Nice work.

"We bring you to Michigan to take care of Michigan; your job is to protect that block M."
-Carol Hutchins

August 30th, 2012 at 2:27 AM | Write your own thoughts into (Score:4 Normal)
ISMELLSEXY
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Joined: 11/04/2009
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Write your own thoughts into your own diary!!

 

Edit: You didn't deserve that.

Michigan National Champs: 1901-1904 1918 1923 1932 1933 1947 1948 1997 

August 30th, 2012 at 2:36 AM | Number one thing... (Score:3 Normal)
4godkingandwolv...
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Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 3499

... which I think only the last column really alludes to is numbers.  How many players did they recruit in that time.  Even with all the recruiting services, predicting success at the next level is not a perfect science, so increasing the instances (in this case number of recruits), really allows you to reduce the variability.  

 

You add this on top and you get Alabama with higher average ratings and much higher class size.  That's a tough combination to compete against.  

Do Something. If it works, do more of it. If it doesn't, do something else.

August 30th, 2012 at 8:16 AM | And further more with oversigning and a willingness to move . . (Score:1 Overrated)
ImSoBlue
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Joined: 07/10/2008
MGoPoints: 877

underperformers, a scholarship to Alabama is really just an invitation to try out over the summer.  Those that perform get to stay, those that aren't as advertized are rooted out to make room for others.  Under this system, recruiting rankings do not really tell the story, so while I admire the effort the OP put in, I don't think  there is much takeaway.

They have removed/mitigated the element of chance.  Everyone gets rich and fans are happy, so what's the problem.

Now I know that the SEC has now put some limit (28?) on oversigning, but the machine has been built, and its success is a porch light that attracts more consistant talent like moths to the flame. 

 

August 30th, 2012 at 10:01 AM | As To Class Size... (Score:2)
LSAClassOf2000
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Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 8947

To add some to this point, going back to 2002, the average class size for Michigan is 22 and the average class size for Alabama is 26. In that span, the maximum for Michigan was 27 and the minimum was 17. The maximum for Alabama was 32 and the minimum was 19. As the OP's chart sort of depicts, having four more people in the class on average makes a significant difference in average rankings / stars, but the top-heavy distribution of Alabama's class is part of that. I imagine if you created a histogram just with stars for individual recruits, Alabama's distribution would be a little more skewed than Michigan's, but then in the 2002-2012 timeframe that I was looking at, Alabama's sample would have 41 more players in it.

"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."

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August 30th, 2012 at 8:54 AM | Did you account for (Score:2)
2Blue4You
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Joined: 08/28/2008
MGoPoints: 398

Did you account for oversigning?  A 3-Star Bama guy has to earn his roster spot despite being offered a scholarship so maybe there is an extra bump for the Bama guys. 

August 30th, 2012 at 9:13 AM | And little misleading (Score:2)
Suavdaddy
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 135

By counting our freshmen in the two deep (Kalis, mags? Ross?) you are inflating our numbers with players who likely aren't ready for prime time. A four star Jr is much different than a four star frosh.

August 30th, 2012 at 10:33 AM | Context (Score:1)
tenerson
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 1676

You have to take these things in context. Talent rating is just one ingredient. Another, and far more importnat IMO, is development. They will play a lot more upper classmen that have been in a great program. As it was alluded to, our true freshmen in the two deep increase our rating significantly in spots. They don't have the growth and development Bama does. You also have to account for system players playing out of their optimal system and yes, we do have those guys. That's probably worth something. It's a nice piece and it's very interesting, but there needs to be context on an individual basis. 

August 30th, 2012 at 10:37 AM | Great Stuff (Score:2)
MCalibur
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Joined: 07/16/2009
MGoPoints: 2202

As others have mentioned I'd like to see (or have the time to do myself) a similar break down foucsing on the remnants from the recrutiing classes of 2008-2010 (exclude freshman  and RS freshman). By focusing on what is still on the roster, you get rid of irrelevent information.

August 30th, 2012 at 1:54 PM | I don't think the OP is getting enough credit (Score:1)
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 5176

for her/his work here. Those responding are demonstrating the limitations of such a comparison, but it's still encouraging and worthy. 

Also don't know why Prevatt's response about how the mechanics of AL oversigning gets shut down--we all ought to be big enough to give a thoughtful response like his consideration. I'd be willing to bet the truth lies somewhere between Brian's take and Prevatt's, but the fact that AL recruits are likely to be far dodgier scholastic propositions from far rocker HS backgrounds undoubtedly does play a role in how many show up. Don't know what role fairness plays ultimately in such a scenario but would love to hear other opinions.  

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