You make some valid points.....but Fuck Ohio
UM @ Ohio - postgame thoughts
and do it with a chainsaw
They can talk all they want how they love basketball. But the fact that Michigan beat them in football, the sport they care about the most beyond a shadow of a doubt, eats them up inside.
I also kind of find it funny how the Raftery said ohio is "one of college basketball's elite".
That's why their last national title was before the current players PARENTS were even born right?
They kept displaying it courtside at Value City Arena during the game: "An NCAA National Championship in 1960".
President Eisenhower may have been impressed, but it is not something I'd exactly brag about in 2012.
that was like 10 presidents ago, haha
While that's kind of funny to think about, you can't use national titles as the sole measure of greatness, especially in this sport when it comes down to a crazy 68-team tournament.
I think the Big Ten's a great basketball conference year-in and year-out, but it has only one national title in the last 20 years. Big Ten teams reached the title game in '92, '93, '00, '02, '05, '07 and '09. That's pretty good even if we've had a knack for blowing that final game.
I agree that bragging about a 52-year-old title with a courtside sign is ridiculous though.
Shoot me in the mutha f'n face!
The goddamn sky is falling.*
I guess you have to expect with any home team, but they got a lot of calls going their way. Some of the calls on us were pretty weak I felt, but thats how away games go...
Also, THJ made some random three's which, I think from our experience in the past 4-6 games, he can't make on a consistent basis. I think if anything, he should be driving and either trying to make a layup or passing it out from the paint. THJ needs to get his mind set I feel the most of all. Thats why my opinion, I have no idea what Beiliein is trying to get done with THJ.
Other than that, a game which we could have won but we let get away.
Also, THJ made some random three's which, I think from our experience in the past 4-6 games, he can't make on a consistent basis.
THJ shot 37% last year on 207 attempts. In this, as in all things, sample size is king.
I think it's pretty clear that this season, Hardaway hasn't been able to get into a rhythm like he was doing in the last few months of last year. Clearly he's capable of it, but the shots haven't been falling this season.
Then again, this was about the time Hardaway started to heat up last year so hopefully he'll find his shot again in the end.
And THIS YEAR he is making 33-119...for 27.7%, down 10% from last year.
So, you're telling me he is shooting well from three consistently this year?
What I'm saying is that the statement "he can't hit those shots" is inaccurate.
Adam Dunn hits .159 after a career of hitting .280, and people say, "he can't hit." But they are wrong. He CAN hit. He just ISN'T hitting. If a career .220 hitter hits .220, and people say "he can't hit," THOSE people are correct.
THJ had an entire season of hitting 3s at 37%. He was shooting at 33% through 10 games. Is he hitting those shots regularly? No. CAN he hit those shots regularly? Absolutely. A good shooting day is as likely to be a guy breaking out of a slump as it is to be an aberation.
Yes agreed...maybe since I'm an engineer my grammar sucks, but RECENTLY he can't make them (over the past 4-6 games). I'm not saying he can't make them period, because he can. Just recently, he is trying to force them, I think in an attempt to get his mojo going and get out of his mental-block. If he is trying to get out of a slump, I think he is going about it the wrong way by just launching up random 3's (there were 2 or 3 of those today, the really bad one where I think Burke passed it out and THJ just immedietely launched it up).
I understand he is probably really frustrated with himself, but its to the detriment of the team. If his three's aren't falling during a game, he should try and do the next best thing and use his body and drive.
and did not utilize cuts to the basket or back doorcuts nearly enough today. Ohio had massive on ball help today, we needed more people flashing to the basket.
but it was all in the first half. there were 4-5 nice bounce passes for layups in the first half and we barely had 20 pts. i can't recall any in the second half.
They had a few attempts but didn't hit them.
We don't have the depth yet, especially up front, especially with Horford out. The key play was Morgan's cheap second foul, which was either an awful decision or an awful call (I lean towards the latter, but we never got a replay). We need another rebounder, and that would be Horford if he were healthy.
Depth is a huge issue down low. Christian's minutes weren't bad but he really has no chance to provide much offensively. But depth in the post will go from non-existent to very abundant next year with McGary, Morgan, Horford and Smot. McLimans also had some good minutes too
had two horrible offense plays in a row.
Gotta stay away from that 4th seed and meet up with them in the B10 Finals.
As long as they call over the back in Ann Arbor U-M can win.
I really didn't think it was a matter of over the backs. It was more a matter of simply being outmuscled on the glass.
There were plenty of over-the-backs and pushes underneath that would have been called if this game had been played at home...
to the hoop by a Michigan player was made tentatively though, waiting for the shot to be blocked or hoping the contact was going to come. We missed SO MANY layups today because nobody was taking it strong. Just dunk the damn thing, you get fouled when you are trying to dunk the ball. Go hard and you go to the line.
Novak: 0-4, 0 points
Smot: 1-6, 3 points
That's never a good sign.
Brrrrrrrrr. That's some cold shooting.
Really, when you consider how cold we were from the perimeter, the fact that we still don't have Horford, and that Morgan was in foul trouble, it's amazing we were in the game at all. This game was 50-43 with like five minutes left. We were hammered on the glass, but we did defend well, all things considered.
If Hardaway and Smotrycz can finally bust out of their slumps and Horford can come back, this team could be very dangerous. You look at how mediocre we've been offensively, and how undersized we are, and you wonder how we could possibly be 6-3 in league play. Somehow we find ways to hang around.
Even with us doing a good job on him Sullinger killed us in the 2nd half
-Zack & Stu played subpar today
-Refs let Craft get away with bumping Trey all game long
-When the hell is Horford gonna play, we need him in the paint badly
-Game was closer than the score indicated for sure
--Our program is back and I like where we're headed, sweet 16 run would be.....sweet
Sweet 16 is not a reality this year. I am hoping just to get to 22 wins. That is not a given and if we do not, our seed will not be a good one for the NCAA Tourney
sweet 16 is a legit goal this year. a top 3-4 finish in the BIG guarantees a 4-5 seed in ncaa, which means a favorable match-up the first 2 rounds.
4 and 5 would have to play each other to make it to sweet 16. On top of that look at the success 12 seeds have every year. i am hoping to that this team is a 4 seed for the Big Ten let alone the NCAA. I think you are right the sweet 16 is a good GOAL, but this team would have to be red hot. going into the tourny to make it.
I don't think it's quite as difficult as you're making it out to be. If we are in fact a 5 seed, that will give us a favorable first-round matchup (for all the hype the 12 seeds get for upsets, they only actually win about 30% of the time), and then basically a coin flip of a game for the second round. Given Beilein's history of tournament success, I'd feel pretty good about our chances to make it to the second weekend in that case.
If we're a 6 seed, we'll be more of an underdog in the second round (assuming we play the 3 seed) but it shouldn't be an impossible game. The real key is to avoid having to play the 1 and 2 seeds in the second round. We had to play them in 2009 and 2011 and lost two competitive games.
than the 2009 or 2011 matchups. I guess i am just looking at the remaining schedule and thinking that 4 losses is a real possibility and that means they would have to go deep in the BIG Tournament in order to get a 4 or 5 seed, but I could be wrong.
So we'd only have to beat a team that's worse than us and equal to us. Hmmm, I like our chances. Also the success that 12 teams have every year is significantly less than the succes the 5 seeds have every year.
Last year, playing the one seed. And now having to get through a 4 or 5 requires "red hot play"? Let's not go overboard here.
we are in 3rd place now in the BIG and i can't remember the last time this team was "red hot". if we just get thj or smot to get their act together, this team is very good and can beat anyone, especially on a neutral court. they play solid D and burke has been great.
If Michigan can avoid getting a 7-10 seed the sweet 16 is very doable. After the first two seeds(top 8) its all parity all the time. Heck, if we tanked and got an 11 or 12 it would be better than a 7 or 8.
meaning Ohio had better athletes than Michigan read rebounds. They also played with more energy. The missed layups and the piss poor three point shooting also killed michigan.
Against a team this much bigger than us, we need to significantly outperform them from downtown and we didn't (though they were also stone cold from there). That's pretty much the bottom line. If Horford is available for the rematch - and Morgan isn't in foul trouble most of the game - the size disadvantage won't be as big an issue.
Just got to get to the Tourney. This team is good enough to beat anybody in the country on any given day. Would like I see more depth but the best Beilein teams usually don't have that much depth (see umhoops).
Can't wait for the return leg to Ann Arbor.
Big games this coming week.
This loss is totally on the following parties:
- Beilein, for not getting the team to score more points.
- The players, for not scoring more points.
- On the refs, for allowing OSU to score more points.
- On the fans, for not traveling to Value City Center Grill & Boobie Bar to cheer for the players to stop OSU from scoring more points.
- RR, for allowing OSU to score more points against him in football for 3 years, which helped OSU get used to scoring more points than UM.
- Lloyd Carr, for allowing OSU to score more points than him in football for most of the 2000's, which helped OSU get used to scoring more points than UM.
- Dave Brandon, for not running a worse athletic department that would "incentivize" UM players into scoring more points.
- SMPHG - Stupid Michigan Point Hating God for smoting UM's shots so that they did not score more points today.
Remedy - fire everyone and start over!
you are going to give people a hard time for giving their thoughts on the game today?
too many 3 point shots. and no boards!
I just think we lack athleticism from top to bottom. I think Evan is not comfortable right now on offense or defense. We make about 5 dumb passes a game where a guy is mid air trying to pass it and it gets stolen. I think today we hesitated on some open 3's, but what do I know...
They play with a lot of heart, but still lack some talent in the right spots.
I did not watch this game expecting Michigan to win. Ohio isn't the #4 team in the country with a 30-something win streak at home for nothing. Hate them or not, they are a damn good team, and are clearly the best team in the conference right now.
If we can play like we did in the first half for a whole game, there is no reason we can't beat them at home. But we've got a murderer's row of a schedule remaining, especially in the next few weeks, which will tell us a lot about this team and where it should be placed in the tournament.
Remember too, we beat them in football this year, and at the end of the day, that's what will hurt them more than any basketball game.
after this week (3 games) the schedule is about as easy as it can get to end the BIG season.
We are missing a star player. Maybe Trey can develop into that, but to win on the road you need a player that you know can give you 20-25 pts or demand so much attention that it allows your role players to play well and get wide open shots. We are good because of our coaching PERIOD. We have a bunch of role players that we rely too heavily on. With that being said, I do believe the Sweet 16 is a realistic goal. Next year with the addition of MM, GRIII, and Nick, the Final Four will be the goal. We were outplayed by a more talented team. I can handle that a lot better than losing to Iowa and freakin Arkansas.
(at least as bad as we were beat) is why I do not think that this is a sweet 16 team.
My thing about Ohio is that they claim they don't care about us, but then they have a SONG that is about HOW MUCH they DON"T GIVE A DAMN about us. If you REALLY didn't care about us, you wouldn't have song...must be all the inbreeding that makes them so stupid.
Ohio State fans don't care about Michigan in the same way that Michigan fans don't care about Sparty.
We don't assault MSU fans that come to Ann Arbor.
Speak for yourself. I beat the shit out of an MSU mom at a Tupperware party.
(sarcasm assumed - no /s needed)
We don't assault MSU fans that come to Ann Arbor.
If Ohio doesn't care about us, then who do they care about? We are their primary rival, without question; as they are ours.
Those Ohio fans are stupid. If an OSU fan says he doesn't care about Michigan, he's lying. Trust me, we all hate you guys, like any rival would.
I think we live and die by the 3 too much. We didn't need to play that way today. There were a lot of inside looks that we passed to the 3 look.
We can beat ohio in A2!
Ohio State just has a better team philosophy than we do. They move the ball around the outside until they can get a good angle entry pass to the post, and either have their big man take it to the rim or kick it for a 3 when the D collapses. Their post players are well positioned on the floor. Inside-out and pretty simple basketball.
Having multiple future NBA players helps, too. Give us a big hoss like Sullinger in the middle and suddenly we'll be getting a lot of good looks.
If you don't want Thad Matta to beat Beilein in another thing remember to vote everyday in the Infiniti charity thing on ESPN. Vote everyday. Matta's up on Beilein by 1% but we can make a late push.
but combined with shooting 39% for 2-pointers on top of getting outrebounded by double-digits and you're going to struggle to beat average teams, let alone OSU. The only way this squad gets within shouting distance of a Sweet 16 berth is to get red-hot at tournament time.
We also weren't shooting in an empty gym. OSU's team defense is very good (and Craft's on-the-ball D is phenomenal). We had a handful of open threes, but pretty much every other shot we took was heavily contested.
I was starting to think I was the only one with that thought.
I think just making the tournament as a single digit seed would probably qualify as within "shouting distance" of the Sweet 16. There are multiple Sweet 16 teams every year that wouldn't stand a chance on the road against the #4 team in the country without playing out of their minds.
Some things worked well, others didn't like rebounding and drawing fouls. 18 FTA for Ohio vs. 4 for Michigan irritates me but that's life sometimes. Novak leaving will hurt but everyone's been inconsistent at shooting at some point this season. At least we can comfortably project THJ coming back for his senior season.
Not to brag but I very nearly nailed this game exactly. I picked M 66-64. Ohio State held up their end of the bargain by scoring precisely 64 points. Michigan was a mere 5 three pointers and a layup away from the 66 points I predicted. I am not about to dwell on my near miss, I have to get my Bob Knight game face on for Wednesday.
My postgame thought is that the announcer was really annoying. He was clearly a Buckeye fan and on top of that his catch phrases were incredibly stupid and forced. I don't watch a lot of College B-Ball. Who was that guy? Horrible, this announcer, horrible.
edit: I know there were two guys, so if you're wondering which one I'm referring to, it's the annoying one.
He is one of the best college basketball color commentators around.
But man, some broadcasters these days are getting ridiculous. The verbal diarrhea they spew becomes nauseating. And I like Dick Vitale if that can help my case of not being bias against all announcers these days. Much of what Raftery was saying today was flat out wrong, regarding the Michigan team (and how they function, who does what well, etc.). It's not just Bill Raftery. The poor commentating and homerism they can show all starts to add up after a few years.
I'm watching Heat vs Bulls and Derrick Rose is absolutely phenomenal. How in the hell did Memphis not win the NC with him. Rose is better than Trey Burke
As an MSU fan, I get nightmares thinking of Derrick Rose in a Memphis uniform.
Free throws. And Rose is a much different athlete than Burke. Burke is stronger, but that's about it. Rose is just a freak.
And it showed today. The thing is, they are beatable, by Michigan. Things need to fall Michigan's way a little more to do so, but it is feasible, especailly in Ann Arbor. Michigan's possessions are more valuable to us for scoring than OSU's are to them and throwing up inefficient shots and turning the ball over will not beat them. Being slaughtered on the boards, like today, will not beat them. Shooting 4 FTAs an entire game will not beat them. However, if Michigan were to have hit two more shots, maybe only one, like the above poster mentioned (Stu missing the 3 to cut to 4 with ~6 min remaining after being down ~12 moments before) they would have been right in the thick of things.
For all the things the boys in Blue did wrong and how they were outplayed, to be a single possession and a defensive stop away from being virtually even with OSU (today) shows what this team is made of and can do. Most of what I feel "needs" to happen has been said already by others. But if and when this team puts together a complete, solid game, they will be a tough match-up for just about anybody. Michigan, a tough match-up, may not resonate at first but I think we all see it. The way the defense can play and they way some of the boys CAN play, combine it all and Michigan could be playing March 25th in Atlanta*.
*Speculation. I'd rather have them closer to home (and me in Iowa) in St. Louis!
1. No depth at Center
2. No Hardaway (NBA maybe after Senior year)
3. Turnover mid-way through the 2nd half that led to a dunk and all the momentum ...
We will get them in Ann Arbor but need 1 and 2 above.
Doesn't matter. I am confident the NCAA will find out that Matta was paying Sullinger all along.
Ehh, there's a better chance of him paying Deshaun or something. Sully is a Columbus born kid whose brother played at OSU like 5 years earlier. Probably was going there all along.
No one realistically thought that we were going to break their home win streak, but those guys played for a long while as if they thought they could. No quit on this squad. Our best guys are our youngest guys, and they are getting better, although not in a linear fashion. Burke will be excellent by the end of this year, and one of the best handful of players in the conference next year. Hardaway could be, if he can get coached up to make better decisions.
We need more depth, which is coming, but this team will still be a very tough out at the B10 tournament and in March/April.
I was at the game, and the refs were horrible, but for both sides. OSU's defense is pretty tough - they're long, athletic, and fast...Burke and esp. Hardaway did a nice job of taking the ball to the hole. Michigan will be fine - this was the toughest game anyone has given OSU at home...
On another note...has anyone ever seen John Beilein go after the refs like he did? I've never seen him close to losing his cool, but he had to be restrained today at one point...
A team dominates us in the paint, particularly on the offensive bards and some of us blame the refs and missed over the back calls as the reason for the loss.
We played a game in the first half whereby we would have had a chance to win in the second if we mirrored. We stopped shooting, got out physicaled, and looked like a low second tier big ten team by the end the game. We are more than one player away, but fortunately we will have Horford and three solid recruits coming in next year. Still would be nice to have had that dcd kid (amir williams) on our sidelines this year not their's. Felt like we could not finish anywhere and they (eventually) did close in at a clip high enough to win convincingly and in a manner that made us look like a bunch of middle schoolers slapping at he arms of the jv squad.
Glad the d for the first half showed what coud be done to beat these guys.
Large gangly man (Blake m)hit a three on what looked like a set play (hello true spirit of Beilein)
Trey payed poorly in the second half but looked good doing it. He is that good. MVP.
We can sweep the spartoons still.
1. We sucked balls
2. osu kicked our asses in bball and football recuriting
3. At least we will have THJ back next year - cause he isn't even ready for the wnba yet!
Michigan fans complaining about other school's fans celebrating outdated national championships is a bit ... ironic.
I definitely agree, Ohio is clearly the best team in the Big Ten. Despite that, we played hard, and kept it close until late in the second half. I don't think we could've asked for much more considering we were on the road and we weren't shooting lights out.
Proud of the way the (Mich) guys played, and can't wait to see Ohio in Ann Arbor!