UM Defense next year

Submitted by michigan2323 on
How much do you think the defense will improve next year? They lost Donovan and BG. They are going to be young next year but talented. Do you think the defense will improve enough to keep us in games if are offense is struggling in a few games?

aaamichfan

January 19th, 2010 at 2:17 AM ^

I do not expect the defense to be great. But, as long as they can eliminate big plays and prevent teams from repeatedly converting on 3rd and long, the defense should be good enough to allow the offense to win games for us. And I do think we will see this improvement. Basically what I am saying is that if the offense can find a way to execute consistently and generate yardage steadily, this team has a good chance of winning 7-9 games next season. If injuries or execution or defense become a problem, 2010 could be similar to 2009.

rbgoblue

January 19th, 2010 at 2:19 AM ^

I think that the defense will be significantly improved, simply from having the players spending more time in the same system. You look at Michigan's defensive mistakes, and the majority of them appeared to be schematic as opposed to a talent deficiency. I also think that Tate having a year of experience under his belt will help immensely, as far as offensive consistency, and much less scrutiny will fall on the defense regardless. Looking at our talent returning on offense, barring a significant injury on that side of the ball, I don't see any reason why our offense should struggle against any of our opponents in this upcoming season.

Mich4Life

January 19th, 2010 at 2:40 AM ^

It is nice that I can peer upon the depth chart and pick out guys that just seem like playmakers to me. Great teams need gamechangers to bring them to the next level, and just to name a: Woolfolk, williams, herron, obi, van bergen, martin

Beavis

January 19th, 2010 at 12:10 PM ^

Williams is a joke and cost us a few games this past year. Herron didn't start. Obi was benched for a walk on. How are these guys playmakers in the typical sense? If you mean they are playmakers, as in - the plays they make will get them seated firmly on the bench - then yes I'd agree.

jg2112

January 19th, 2010 at 12:18 PM ^

Mike Williams and Brandon Herron were both redshirt sophomores last year. Both were in their third straight year of learning a new defensive scheme. Remember the MAGICAL transformation into competence of Stevie Brown last year? Perhaps we should wait until guys' careers are done before we start deriding their efforts for our favorite team.

Beavis

January 19th, 2010 at 12:41 PM ^

I understand that being positive is better than being negative but... How about a dose of reality here and let's avoid labeling a kid a "play maker" before: A) He proves he can play (Williams) B) He starts (Herron) Also, yes Herron was a redshirt sophomore and has a couple of years left to do something. BUT he was dethroned by a true freshman. So sir - how do you explain that?

jg2112

January 19th, 2010 at 1:13 PM ^

I labeled neither Williams nor Herron a "play maker." All I'm saying is that we should wait until these guys are done before writing the summary of their career. There are tales of way too many college football players who did nothing their first three years on campus, and then became solid to great contributors their last year or two years at a school. David Harris comes to mind. Yes, others don't pan out but it's incredibly premature, given the transition we've seen at Michigan since December 2007, to say these guys won't get it done (likewise, it's too early to say they will). As for Herron, well first, he was never on a throne to be dethroned from, and second, maybe it's because Craig Roh is one hell of a player (as would have been signified to you by his Freshman All America status).

Beavis

January 19th, 2010 at 1:37 PM ^

Yeah you didn't label them playmakers but it should have been pretty frickin' obvious that the original reply did. And when I came around the refute his argument, you sorta took his side. I hope this part of the argument is dead at least. I don't think those kids are playmakers because they haven't earned it yet (and you have to agree with that or you are mentally challenged), and I agree with you that given a couple of years they CAN become playmakers. End of story. But to the Roh/Herron thing. You're out of bounds on that one buddy. 1) I never said Roh wasn't a hell of a player. He's my favorite player on this team and the one that I would choose first overall in a Big 10 fantasy draft. 2) Can you name me a player on the Michigan team that was behind a younger player on the depth chart and later was able to start at that exact position? 3) Given that Roh > Herron, and Herron never really did anything for us last year - how could you ever think (as the original guy who replied) that Herron was a playmaker?

jg2112

January 19th, 2010 at 3:31 PM ^

Unnecessarily hostile and rude. Really man, mentally challenged? I responded because you called Williams and Herron useless or bad. WE DO NOT KNOW EITHER WAY. My message to you is to be patient. Your response is that the argument is over. No way man. If Herron and Williams perform at an All-Conference level this year, it doesn't mean I was right because I didn't say they could do it. It does make you wrong, however, because you said they probably couldn't. Let's hit your points. (1) Good for you. I never said you said Roh wasn't a hell of a player. Your argument is jejune. (2) If you're talking about the team this year, well, Troy Woolfolk took over for Boubacar Cissoko. However, this argument is a red herring - there were only about 10 contributing juniors/seniors on the team and they're all on the field. There's not enough of a data point to argue it. (3) I never said Herron was a playmaker. However, I'm not saying he's not. You don't know, and neither do I. So stop acting like you do.

RagingBean

January 19th, 2010 at 3:26 AM ^

They will be young and will likely still be a bit undersized up front, but I think they will bounce up the Total D rankings by 20-25 slots. More cohesion as a unit and better athletes on the field should lead to about 5-7 points less per game. Considering that I expect our Offense to be pretty damn explosive next year, I will happily take that level of improvement.

Maize and Blue…

January 19th, 2010 at 9:21 AM ^

Big Will replaces Martin who moves to RVBs spot. If you move RVB to BG's DE and keep Roh in the same place, I don't think the D front will be all that undersized especially if Roh bulks up a little. The second year in the same system should allow for players to react instead of thinking first. That split second can be the difference between making a play or not.

SEAL Fan

January 19th, 2010 at 3:49 AM ^

The defense will be better next year. They will return a lot of starters, introduce some redshirts from last year and have fewer players playing out of position. The defense next year won't win any games but I also don't see them losing any games if that makes sense. If the defense plays like they did against Ohio State, I see this team winning 7 or 8 games.

RioThaN

January 19th, 2010 at 4:07 AM ^

I hope this defense will play better, it actually could gain weight at the line with Campbell inserted as the NT and Roh having added at least 10 pounds of pure muscle, Martin is a bull too, the LB position has to be better, i have hope in Mouton and Ezeh, but if the guys don't get better at least Leach should be a better player than he was last year and i'm talking about a walk on, if Fitz and Demens don't step up we have Bell, and guys like Ryan or wheter wilkins or pazkors (i think one of those two will end up eventually at LB). The deathbacker will be though to replace, but we have a lot of guys who can fill that position in, i myself liked Kovac's ability to tackle and support the run, i think he could end up in that position if no one claims the spot. Corners will be weak, but i have high hopes for Turner, and if eventually we still need a No.1 or 2 CB i guess Woolfolk will fill in, he did a decent job as a Corner, he and Turner are sure to be part of the secondary, the only question is who will be the other 2? it could be a safety or CB, any guy who can establish himself as someone deserving for a starting job, good news here is that we do have a lot of bodies there and therefore competition, someone will step up. Another reason i'm positive about defense is that this kids will finally have a second year to prove what they have been doing under the same DC.

jam706

January 19th, 2010 at 10:18 AM ^

The deathbacker is Roh, we lost the spinner in Brown. Still, Kovacs can tackle, but I don't think he has the coverage skills to hold down that starting spot. There is plenty of competition there though, largely from guys who redshirted last year, I'll feel alright about whoever the coaches pick to take over And if Turner and Woolfolk are our CBs my first guess at safety would be Marvin Robinson and Vlad (even though he was a ghost last year, I'm not sure that 2 true freshman start, and I can't see Mike Williams retaining his spot)

Jon Benke

January 19th, 2010 at 4:41 AM ^

They lose their two best players, though they gain expierence all across the board, especially in and around the line; Van Bergen, Martin, Roh, and Fitzgerald, to name a few, and they should get decent play from their red-shirt freshmen and a few true freshmen; Turner, Campbell, Robinson, Christian, and hopefully Sean Parker, among others... So while we lose our two best, as a unit, we should be better, especially under the same D.C. for the first time in some time, all that should translate into a much better unit. We also had a fair share of players that had horrific seasons, all of which could bounce back; Ezeh and Mouton ring bells, and if not, they'll be replaced with talented, albeit younger players that can get the job done. Again, allot can happen, though I fully expect a much better defensive unit than the one we all saw in 2009.

Blue_Bull_Run

January 19th, 2010 at 10:55 AM ^

I think the defense will be better because they'll be better across the board. In general, I think a defense composed of entirely competent players will perform better than one composed of some stars (Graham, Warren) and some incompetent ones (uhh...you know). So losing Graham and Warren hurts, but I think we more than make up for it simply by teaching out DBs to be in the right position.

cjffemt

January 19th, 2010 at 7:23 AM ^

I am excited to see how the defense will perform this year. These kids have a DC for a 2nd year now for the first time in what three years?? With that said, I am excited to see alot of new names on the field and some of the regular names on the sidelines. Guys like woolfolk Mouton and Ezeh better step it up in the spring and summer or they will not be playing on saturdays. I hope the defense can find stamina. With the high powered offense this team is capable of, the defense will be on the field for long periods of times once again this year. So to say the defense will not lose games and may not win games, I beg to differ. DEFENSE ALWAYS WINS OR LOSES GAMES. The defense will still make mistakes, I don't see that changing this year, however they will limit the number of mistakes greatly this year. I am still very concerned about the lack of size up front. I was really hoping RR would have recruited a few more BIGGER DT's. Campbell and Martin can't handle the entire load of the season. Non-the-less I can't wait............

Eyebrowse

January 19th, 2010 at 8:39 AM ^

I am excited for the prospect of walk-ons NOT starting but contributing in back-up/relief roles. That will (hopefully) translate into some improved fundamental defense against dropping big plays. I'm not expecting the defense to be something special yet, but I do expect them to play solid on the fundamentals. I may be asking to much. I see the defense being able to keep us in a few more games this year that the offense might struggle through. Here's to 2010! Go Blue!

2001

January 19th, 2010 at 8:59 AM ^

Here's how I see our opening game defense without any additional commitments (i.e. parker, knight, etc.): NT: Campbell (So), Sagesse (Sr) DT: Martin (Jr), Banks (Sr), Patterson (Sr), ASH (Fr/RS), TALBOTT (Fr/RS) DE: Van Bergen (Jr), LaLota (Fr), Heininger (Jr), WILKINS (Fr/RS), PASKORZ (Fr/RS) Q: Roh (So), Herron (Jr), Watson (Jr), KINARD (Fr/RS), ROGERS (Fr/RS). ...The Dline should actually be stronger against the run with Big Will in the middle and stallworts Martin and Van Bergen at the ends. The pass-rush is going to be a lot weaker without BG, though Roh should only get better. It might be wise to go with Martin-NT, Van Bergen-DT, Roh-DE, Ezeh-Q package in passing situations. I don't really see any of the incoming freshmen having an impact here...maybe Wilkins at DE or Ash at DE. MLB: Ezeh (Sr), Fitzgerald (Jr), Demens (So), RYAN (Fr/RS) WLB: Mouton (Sr), Leach (Jr), Bell (Fr) SLB: Jones (So), Hawthorne (Fr), Simmons (So), FURMAN (Fr/RS) ...Theoretically, Ezeh and Mouton should be much improved. Most of the mistakes they made last season were mental. With a new coach and a fresh start, they could get it back. Let's hope it was mostly Hopson. SAM has me pretty concerned, with a bunch of unknowns competing for the starting position. I'd feel a lot better if we got both Parker and Knight, letting Robinson move to Stevie B's spot. Ryan's physically ready, but there's some depth ahead of him on the chart. Furman needs a redshirt. FS: ROBINSON (Fr/RS), Kovacs (So), Gordon (Fr), JOHNSON (Fr/RS) SS: Woolfolk (Sr), Williams (Jr), Emilien (So), VINOPAL (Fr/RS) CB: Turner (Fr), Floyd (So), AVERY (Fr/RS) CB: CHRISTIAN (Fr/RS), Jones (So), TALBOTT (Fr/RS) ...This might not be what we start off with in the secondary, but I think that it will eventually be what we're working with. This first question is Woolfolk, corner or safety!? In the last game of the year we had him at safety, so I'm going with that. Woolfolk at safety means Turner at corner. Floyd will probably start the season off opposite him, but I'm guessing that Christian eventually beats him out. Kovacs will probably start the year off at FS, but again, I'm guessing that Robinson eventually beats him out. Johnson, Vinopal, Avery and Talbott are all RS candidates...though we might end up needing one of the corners. If Parker commits, then we might be able to think twice about using Woolfolk at corner (it essentially boils down to parker vs. cullen). Knight, probably the same story, but to a lesser extent. If we somehow manage to get both, then you think about M-Rob to SAM.

Big_G

January 19th, 2010 at 9:48 AM ^

I tend to agree with you on the DL, in that if Will Campbell is ready (technique-wise) to play their best alignment might be him at nose, Martin at DT, and shift Van Bergen over to DE. Roh of course at the Quick. Should still create some havoc with the penetrating style of our DL, but will definately take a hit in pass rushing overall. LBs are a lot of what ifs and conjectures to me. Should Ezeh and Mouton play better? After all its their fifth year at Michigan. Still though how many LB coaches have they had (the new one will be their third I do believe) and different defensive philosophies (third I believe)? Too many question marks with these two players for me to feel comfortable about our LB group. Of course all this goes out the window if the new LB coach can come in and get immediate results or someone steps up. Still a bit disconcerting when looking at our LBs, especially when you figure in the SLB position that Brown held. I think we underappreciated the job that Stevie Brown did in what was a new role and position for him last year. He made some plays and generally held his own in a position completely new to him and the team. I don't think that we can expect the same production (well at least for just this year) out of the SLB that we got last year. I think that you forgot about Warren in the secondary. Losing him, our best DB, will hurt tremendously. Without him, we are looking at replacing either two CBs or one CB and one Safety depending upon where Woolfolk plays. Our best alignment last year found us playing Woolfolk as the deep safety with either Cissoko (early on) or Floyd playing the CB opposite of Warren. When we started to give up deep plays in the secondary, this not so coincidentally coincided with Woolfolk being moved to the CB position opposite Warren. Now this is where it gets scary unless someone steps up at CB or Safety, is your best secondary alignment with Woolfolk playing Safety or CB? If he plays Safety you are left with a lot of unexperience at Corner and Floyd. If he plays Corner, you have less inexperience there, but are left with a hole at deep safety and are just asking for a big play. Unless someone steps up tremendously at either CB or Safety allowing Woolfolk to play one or the other, we have a ton of young players and inexperience and I'll have indigestion any time a team throws the ball. I think our defense will not be as good as last year due to the inexperience at a number of positions, departures of 3 of our best players, and question marks all over the place in our back 7. Couple that with losing the Zoltan the Inconcievable, and our defense will probably be defending shorter fields as well. Of course if players step up, offense performs excellent and holds onto the ball longer, etc our defense can start to trend better statistically as the year roles along. I'd say give our defense this year and then next year you really should start to see some better results.

2001

January 19th, 2010 at 9:57 PM ^

you bring up two good points: #1) SLB. Stevie Brown did do a pretty good job there last season. He wasn't that great in man coverage, but excellent in most other aspects. Mike Jones, Brandin Hawthorne...it's a complete unknown at this point. All we can do is hope for the best. I really wish we could spare M-Rob there...but as things stand, we need him at FS. Parker is more of a SS in this defense, but Knight tackles well enough to be a FS. Maybe Gordon or Emilien has a really good second year!? We'll see. #2) The secondary, in general. The coaches made it pretty clear that they prefer Woolfolk at corner last season...and for the most part, he did pretty well there. It might be best to start him off there. Maybe Turner can be our deep man/eraser at SS. If we get Parker, it will definitely be him. Then we've got Floyd who started some games at corner being pushed by Christian. I can live with that for our second spot. Kovacs did ALRIGHT at FS, he'll be our guy there in the spring. But he's such a liability in the passing game. Robinson/Emilien/Gordon should be able to take the spot from him. If we get Knight, he'll be in on that action. Here are some scenarios I like: #1) No Parker, no Knight. FS: Kovacs/Robinson/Emilien/Gordon SS: Turner CB: Woolfolk CB: Floyd/Christian #2) Parker, no Knight. FS: Kovacs/Robinson/Emilien/Gordon SS: Parker CB: Woolfolk CB: Floyd/Turner/Christian #3) No Parker, Knight. SLB: Jones/Hawthorne/Robinson FS: Kovacs/Knight/Emilien/Gordon SS: Turner CB: Woolfolk CB: Floyd/Christian #4) Parker, Knight. SLB: Jones/Hawthorne/Robinson FS: Kovacs/Knight/Emilien/Gordon SS: Parker CB: Woolfolk CB: Floyd/Turner/Christian ...obviously, #4 would be best...lol

ebbtide

January 19th, 2010 at 8:50 AM ^

I am kinda surprised the LB coach search has gone on this long. I would think we would want a coach brought over now while we have a chance to steal a couple of his recruits. I also believe we will see some improvement in a few areas, but this defense is going to be young (especially in the secondary). Hopefully these kids develop quickly as we get into the meat of the B10 schedule.

Big_G

January 19th, 2010 at 9:56 AM ^

No info on the LB Coach but it seems kind of strange that Coach Rod hasnt seemed too scared about filling this position. Perhaps he knows something we don't know (probably), and perhaps they have someone in mind but dont want to announce anything until after National Signing Day.

Bobby Boucher

January 19th, 2010 at 6:19 PM ^

I agree. Scary! Maybe we shouldn't judge them until 2011. You know...when the majority of them are upper classmen and have enough experience to make use of their talent. Next year we'll probably see a lot of the same problems just because everyone is still in the development stages. But a couple of years from now this defense is going to be tough.

Fresh212

January 19th, 2010 at 9:21 AM ^

Next year we can only get better right? I hope lol. I just want a LB that knows something i forgot what a LB was the last 2 years..my first post been reading this blog for about 3 weeks way better then that mlive crap i cant believe a2 lets that many trolls and haters on that site sad. Anyway the D plays as a team next year not just 2 good dudes(bg dw).

pullin4blue

January 19th, 2010 at 9:35 AM ^

I think they will purposely hold off on a LB coach until after LOI's come in. The recruiting has been going very well as of late and the last thing RR wants to happen is to have someone jump ship because of a change in personnel. Right now the guys are comitting to U of M and RR. The LB coach, although very important, is secondary. It also allows RR to focus on locking down his class and not having to spend time with the coach search. He's going to have to spend some time looking outside of former FSU coaches.

michiganfanforlife

January 19th, 2010 at 9:36 AM ^

this year will be depth. Having some guys you can rotate in at all levels of the defense will improve how this unit performs late in games. This is especially the case in our secondary. I agree that defense always wins or loses the game. Our offense puts up points in every game, and if they score 24 or more we should win. I also agree that the same scheme for these guys will make a big difference for their thinking/reading/reacting skills. This will probably allow them to make more plays without worrying what their assignments are on every play.

jg2112

January 19th, 2010 at 12:25 PM ^

The comment I'm responding to is the winning comment in the thread. Last year, after the Indiana game, you had these guys on the roster for defensive backs: Warren, Floyd, Woolfolk, Williams, Kovacs, Emilien, Teric Jones. Serious? "Hey Floyd, that stunk. Get in there Teric." Right. Tell me again why we're criticizing GERG's performance in 2009? Two of those seven should have been redshirted, and another one, Kovacs, was coming off knee surgery. GERG had 5 legitimate DB options for 2/3 of the season. That means, no rotation, no flexibility, no options, and no aggressiveness because without Warren or Woolfolk the D would have given up 60 a game. Now, all come back except for Warren, you add in Turner, Christian, Avery and Talbott at CB, and M-Rob, Vinopal, Carvin and maybe Parker at S, and people are wondering if Michigan's D will be improved?

Brandon_L

January 19th, 2010 at 9:52 AM ^

coming into 2010 we will have plenty of depth and experience. I had faith last year that robinson was a phenominal hire and he brings great energy and passion to our defense. We have A lot of experinece returning including a very determined jonas mouton, Obi Ezeh, ryan van burgen, troy woolfolk, mike martin, possibly boubacar cissocko. These guys have great experience and are the leaders coming in. The big concern is at our safety position. We have to be faster at safety. to many times mike williams was being beat as well as kovaks. We have to either find a good rotation here or find a playmaker. I think we may get a surprise this season with vladamire emilien or even thomas gordon. But it all starts with pressure and if will campbell and mike martin continue to progress our secondary may have it easier than we think. Im going to say our defense will be the biggest surprise and with that we will win 9 games. We will do it being a fast physical defense. The big diference between a year of experience under a coordinator and learning a new system is timing and communication. We were litterally a tenth of a second to a second to late in the secondary. a tenth of a second or a second to late pressuring the quarterback (unless it was brandon graham) Michigan will be quicker and fundamentally their comunication will be much improved. The energy is there and they will have a mcuh larger chip on their shoulder than ever before. The gap on that second or tenth of a second will be closed and all the nay sayers will be silenced. And ill get better seats because they wont want to show their faces any longer. Haha!!! GO BLUE!!!

Braylon 5 Hour…

January 19th, 2010 at 11:20 AM ^

Despite the loss of Brandon Graham, I think that up front we have enough bodies that we can be somewhat productive. I am not sure if this is just me being naive, but I am less concerned about the secondary than I am about the linebackers. Assuming that Ezeh and Mouton aren't significantly better than last year (which I think is a pretty safe assumption), who are our best candidates to really be gamechangers or at the very least, consistent? I like Leach's effort, I just don't think he has the talent to really be our leader out there. If Leach is our best linebacker, that means bad news for the defense.

Tauro

January 19th, 2010 at 11:46 AM ^

That is the philosophy I'd like to see this year. Last year, they broke down far too often. Hold the line - make the offense earn every yard. They will get their gains, but the more they are forced to make a play, the more the Michigan D can jump on their mistakes. I mean, this philosophy works great for me on my X-Box game - so why not in real life???

TheLastHarbaugh

January 19th, 2010 at 12:03 PM ^

This defense is a mystery wrapped in an enigma. They could be improved due to the fact that they will be in the second year of GERG's system, or they could flame out horribly and be far worse than last year. I'm leaning closer to the going out in a death flame of awfulness argument (partly because I don't want to get my hopes up). The more I think about the D-Line, the more I think that without BG they will be awful, because they were at times awful with BG last year. Martin had a solid year last year, but with BG no longer drawing double and triple teams he's going to find it harder to make plays. Hopefully Roh can continue to improve and RVB can become much more consistent, but I really think that Big Will's development will be the major key to whether or not we have a decent line. The linebackers, I have given up on. Hopefully someone emerges as a play maker but at this point it seems pretty unlikely. The secondary will more than likely consist of at least one frist year starter in JT, and maybe one more. Woolfolk will probably switch positions again, moving back to safety. The other safety will be some combination of the ill fated Mike Williams or walk on Jordan Kovacs or a first year starter in either Vlad or a freshman. The other corner will either be JT Floyd or a freshman (I heard Teric Jones moved back to offense). So basically we've got no real consistent playmakers, our seniors are two terrible linebackers, and we are relying on a bunch of either unknown/fairly unknown or known but horrible quantities to pull it all together. At least it will be interesting to watch.

Braylon 5 Hour…

January 19th, 2010 at 12:21 PM ^

I wish I could disagree with you, but I do think that Campbell's size on the defensive line is going to dramatically change things for us. I think it allows us to not be manhandled up front as often, and that RVB/Martin/Roh can wreak enough havoc and create enough of a pass rush to keep us competitive up there. However, the D line's not good enough to cover up for a terrible linebacking corps AND a terrible secondary, so we just need one of those units to step up. My question is, are the days gone where we got guys like Alan Branch, Gabe Watson, David Harris, Ernest Shazor, Leon Hall, etc? It's just so strange to be a Michigan fan (despite these last two years) and have to worry about just not getting the talent in here.

TheLastHarbaugh

January 19th, 2010 at 12:45 PM ^

I think there is potential for some really talented playmakers to emerge as those Branch/Woodley/Graham/Hall type of guys. JT wasn't the #1 player in the state of Ohio for no reason. MRob could have been another one of those guys had he been an EE but sadly he probably won't have a huge impact this year. The one positive thing that this years team has over last year's team is depth. If someone is playing terribly, or doesn't quite fit, then they have other options, unfortunately that depth is a bunch of freshmen, which is an extremely scary proposition.