1. the state of confusion one suffers through as a result of a concussion.
1. the state of confusion one suffers through as a result of a concussion.
A few points to keep in mind:
1. Burden of proof:
The BMV's investigation is akin to a criminal investigation - if they find wrongdoing, it is passed on to some form of prosecution agency (I don't know anything about Ohio state law, but presumably their equivalent to a prosecutor's office). A criminal investigation has a standard of "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."
The NCAA investigation is not a criminal investigation, so the "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" standard does not apply. In fact, I am not sure that there is any governing standard, but if there is one, it is likely closer to (or less than) the standard in a civil case - proof by a preponderance of the evidence (more likely than not).
2. Purpose of the investigation:
Why was the BMV investigating this? Presumably because when you sell a car you pay a tax to the state that is a percentage of the sale price. So, if a dealer sells a car to TP for less than market price, than the state loses out. So long as the prices of the sale are within reason, there is no issue from the state's point of view. The state is not investigating whether these sales were done without co-signors, whether the payments were ever receive, whether the players got sweet deals on trade-ins, whether the players received extended loaners for free or whether the players received free after-market items like rims, sterios, etc. Frankly, if the dealers simply gave these kids cars for free or for a huge discount straight out, I would have been shocked. Nobody - even in Ohio - is that stupid.
That whole list of things that the BMV doesn't care about from the last paragraph - presumably, the NCAA does. If they do their job right, they will not just look at the states selling prices and just move on.
Addressing the same subject as the OP:
Bullet dodged... by the dealership.
The school is still, in NCAA lingo, "proper fucked."
It's great to know the BMV is as corrupt as THE Ohio State University. Apparently, in Ohio, the rules that apply to everyone else don't apply when THE Ohio State University is involved. Luckily, TOSU's cheating is so blatant that even their state government can't cover it up, nor can they prevent the scandal that already is and the probation that is around the corner.
But do you want to carefully lay out your case that the state government of Ohio, and particularly the BMV, is corrupt? And that state government is actively trying to cover up some illegality or wrongdoing by the OSU Athletic Department? That's a truly tinfoil hat kind of allegation.
That's a truly tinfoil hat kind of allegation.
That's just what THEY want you to think.
So far, what I learned above, was that the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles operates under the direction of Governor John Kasich, who not only graduated from The Ohio State University in 1974, but he also owns, and has worn, an OSU golf shirt. And that he wore said golf shirt, while playing golf with the President of the United States on or about the morning of Saturday, June 18, in the general vicinity of Andrews Air Force Base. And that upon information and belief, Kasich, acting in his capcity as Chief Executive of the State of Ohio, communicated to the President, as Chief Executive of the United States, Commander in Chief of all U.S. military forces and as the Chief Law Enforcement officer of the nation, the State of Ohio's desire that all available federal resources be brought to bear, to foil the investigation of the National Collegiate Athletic Association.
I think I got that right. Here is a picture of everything, as it happened...
The OSU golf shirt was stolen by Terrell Pryor from the OSU golf team equipment room.
Other than that, I think the rest is accurate.
Your reply makes any question about Columbus officials seem like a farce. Yet, is it really so silly to ask--not whether there was an organized plot or even intentional lying by Columbus officials--but simply to ask if all of them are eager to reveal the full truth?
The Columbus BMV selectively examined only 25 car sales, when they could have gone much further. Why did they not examine the many other sales in question?
We must remember that, at YSU, according to the SI article, Tressel was accused by Isaac of having his "tickets fixed." Presumably, he did so through his influence in some department concerned with motor vehicle regulations enforcement. So, is it really silly to question the objectivity of the Columbus BMV?
allegation was that he called campus parking and had them cancel tickets. That's a bit different than asking a state agency to falsify reports.
Why did the BMV only examine 25 purchases, when over 50 were alleged to have been sold to OSU players/families by one dealer alone?
How were these particluar purchases selected? At random?
If not, one may question the validity of the results.
A failure to find proof of misdoing, in a limited sample, is not the same as providing proof of the absence of misdoing.
Because these were the transactions in which there were questions about the purchase price shown on the title?
To beat this dead horse one more time, this is the only question the BMV was investigating. They have no interest in NCAA regulations.
price matches the title price, which is how things should be. But wasn't Dan the Dealer's big claim that the price on the title was less than the sale price? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the title price of one of the cars $1? If that matches the sale price, then I'm pretty sure you have a serious violation right there.
It was $0.
"In a May 12 interview with the Ohio Inspector General, Kniffin said Jeff Mauk, owner of Jack Maxton Chevrolet, received tickets from Ohio State coaches for giving them cars to drive. Kniffin said that was a common practice, according to the interview included in the BMV report.
It's not like the BMV can lie about this stuff. Heads would roll if the Feds, IRS and NCAA turn up contradictory information to the BMV report over the longer team. OSU and Doug Archie better hope the BMV isn't stacked with a roster of Buckeye homers performing the investigation.
about reports coming out of the Ohio BMV, given the many OSU grads or boosters in this Columbus office. In fact, the head Registrar is an OSU grad (see link).
Also, if players and their families were not getting any "sweetheart" deals, then
why would over 50 of them go far out of their way--sometimes hundreds of miles
--to go to the same unethical, tax-delinquent Columbus dealer, who just happened to be getting free OSU tickets? Why would multiple players--from Clarret to Small to many others--all make the same report--that they were getting cars whenever they wanted them? If there were nothing to these or other allegations, then why did Tressel resign and Pryor leave?
Yes, I realize, it may be hard for some to believe that a public enforcement agency, like the Ohio BMV, could possibly be influenced by OSU. However, they should ask Lloyd Carr about the unbiasedness of Columbus law enforcement: Why was his team once
stopped and publicly searched by law enforcement officials in front of Ohio Stadium---when no other visiting team had been searched? Journalists said it was to "rattle" the team. Tressel said : "I have no knowledge of the search." However, police later admitted they did the search at the bequest of the athletic department.
So, I remain skeptical about the independence of government officials who live in Columbus
and are either alums or boosters of the team.
at thousands of dollars. I find it hard to fathom that the state of Ohio doesn't care one iota about tax receipts for such items that accompany car sales. Something is not being audited right here.
Also, speaking of thousands of dollars of wasted taxpayer funds, just wait until we get to the delicious Ohio State football equipment room audit? No way in hell do the OSU equipment managers keep their job after this debacle.
Oh, Ohio BMV, you thought you could end this breezy summer of joy and discovery so soon, did you? Shame on you.
In a May 12 interview with the Ohio inspector general, Kniffin said Jeff Mauk, owner of Jack Maxton Chevrolet, received tickets from Ohio State coaches for giving them cars to drive. Kniffin said that was a common practice, according to the interview included in the BMV report.
This is the first time I've seen coaches associated with Kniffin or Mauk. It wouldn't take much to find out what games these guys attended and who sponsered the tickets. If any players who were pulled over in dealer cars gave tickets to these guys I don't think it's a stretch to say the tickets were for access to cars which is an NCAA violation. This is speculation of course.
On another note, I had a conversation with an uncle who went to OSU and goes to nearly every home game but doesn't have season tickets. He said "of course players are selling their tickets for extra money, I've bought them." He didn't know (or wouldn't tell me) who the player was but it is a clear violation since he paid for the tickets and has no relationship with the player.
The Ohio BMV is awesome. After I got out of the Army I had to get my license transfered from Texas back to Ohio. The wonderful people at the BMV did not put my motorcycle endorsement on the Ohio License. When I took it back to point out their mistake, I was told that there was nothing they could do. I would have to retake the motorcycle test...
I completely trust these "hardworking" individuals and am sure they throughly investigated the allegations...
I tried to the best of my ability to verify the KBB values included in the report here:
I don't have all the options, etc, but it seems that the Ohio BMV looked up the CURRENT values of these vehicles, not the value at the time of purchase. Also, you can't look up a retail price in "good" condition but it has to be "excellent". If anyone else is good with this site and has the time, please look into this.
I don't want to fan the conspiracy flames, but the report really doesn't seem to be written in an unbiased manner. Just the tone of it seems defensive rather than objective. This may not be over yet!!
I agree about the tone being defensive, and I would expect nothing else. The spokesperson for the BMV is an OSU grad. So is the head of the registry. For OSU to cite this report as an unbiased external justification for dropping its car investigation is a joke.
If I were an NCAA COI member, I would see OSU's idiotic stonewalling as an insult.
This report says its purpose was to determine if the certificates of title accurately reflect the sales prices---a fact that was never at issue except for the one car alleged to have sold for $0.
The report does not make clear conclusions about whether or not OSU players/families paid less than you or I would. It does tangentially note that none of the cases examined showed purchase prices less than or equal to wholesale. However, that could mean that the players/families paid wholesale+$1. Nowhere do I see a list of the actual vehicles sold, the dates, purchase prices, and other valuation-related information.
You need to look at the exhibits. Some things are blacked out but most of the info is there.
I do now see the list of cars, dates and prices. But, as you also noted below, the information provided does not include most of the value-related information that you'd need to compute the car's actual value--eg using a blue or red book.
Like any organization in Ohio would actually be objective when it comes to tsio
The bmv found nothing illegal, but as far as ncaa violations it's still to be determined. (which will most likely be a MAJOR VIOLATION!!!)