What the hell is the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles..?
This is an important distinction. Legally the Buckeyes may have done nothing wrong, but in terms of the NCAA rules and bylaws, they still may have.
They are an entity that is extremely horrible at investigating...
is Ohio for DMV.
This is half joke / half serious:
DId you not see the video of the President playing golf over the weekend? DId you not see the Governor of Ohio there with him, donning an Ohio State golf shirt?
Yeeeeeaaaahhhh......
Just as, say, Rick Snyder got a BGS, and then got combined MBA/JD degrees at Michigan. (And has courtside season tickets to basketball games.)
Is that evidence of a conspiracy? Is that what you are implying? An official coverup at the highest levels of Ohio government? Is that the "half serious" part?
All I am saying is the guy clearly loves his school and would do anything to help it out.
And when you've got ~4 hours with the president on a golf course, who knows what he could talk to him about. Maybe it's about nothing relating to OSU. But I'd highly doubt it.
I guess we'll see in the end. But if the penalties come up light for OSU, I will become a conspiracy theorist. Not like one of those assholes that said 9/11 was an inside job, though.
Was this negged because dogging 9/11 conspiracy theorists is deemed political? Isn't this one of those universal truths we all agree on? That's like ripping on the 3/5 compromise.
THE MOON LANDING WAS FAKED!!!!1!1!
~buys more tin foil
Remember, this is Ohio we are talking about, not Michigan. Nothing, not even ethics, comes before OSU football in that wasteland.
you and your reason. OF COURSE it's a conspiracy, it was in the news, bro! We know it is pure fact and nothing but! It must be a coverup orchestrated by Kasich and Obama, they were playing GOLF together, man! Come on, good ole boy network, hello!
This only addresses the recorded purchase prices of cars. It doesn't deal with all the loaner vehicles or any other "benefit" that is against NCAA rules but is not illegal.
And as many people have pointed out in the past, nobody just gives a kid a major discount on a car because they know that's really obvious to find a violation. The game here is to have the kid trade in a car and give them well over market value for their trade-in. The BMV report just says the sale prices are legit, which I would expect them to be. It says nothing about validating the trade in prices they got for their previous vehicles.
Nor does it address where the money came from to purchase the cars.
the SI report says:
The BMV's 65-page report issued Tuesday said the certificates of titles for cars sold by Jack Maxton Chevrolet and Auto Direct to players and families accurately reflected the vehicles' sales prices.
Where does it say the BMV reviewed the (NADA or Kelly) blue book value for those vehicles, and the vehicles were in reasonable proximity to the blue book value?
Everything they put out is a narrow investigation of a specific point rather than the broader issue. This is Ohio obfuscation and deflection yet again ... I don't really care if the paper work was documented properly, what kind of deal did they get on the car such that 40 players or families bought cars from these two dealers?
[Edit: just saw the same point posted below. Obviously we're all on to them ...]
The original Dispatch investigation stated half of the deals were above book, and half were below book.
that means that they average book value!? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!
What exactly did you want them to do? Just because the NCAA, a non-governmental body, demands that athletes pay Blue Book value for cars doesn't mean that any state government should care. Let's face it, NCAA rules are arbitrary.
The Ohio government wasn't really investigating the players at all. They wanted to make sure any sales taxes and fees were paid. It couldn't care less (and shouldn't IMO) if the players got a great deal.
I was getting a littles pissed that they would get off somehow....
Their obviously in on the cover-up. /s
The damage is done and everything here on out is icing on the cake.
I'm not sure the problem was ever the selling of cars. More the giving away free loaner cars. Maybe I'm wrong about that though. Hopefully, this is just one small part of the allegations against tat school in ohio.
Precisely.
The excessive purchases made through one salesman seems shady, but it's not the crux of the matter. Taking a 1000 mile test drive IS.
Hmmm. This cover-up is bigger than I thought.
You're kidding right? Are you actually implying the Ohio Government is on this? I hate OSU as much as the next guy, but if the UM fanbase actually gets to the point of thinking the Ohio BMV is on this "cover up" then we are quickly approaching the stupidity and arrogance possessed by none other than our own rival.
1. Yes.
2. No.
3. Cool.
I encourage you to use "/s" for clarification.
Don't be mad at Brumski, because you're a little slow.
Scroll down and see Tater's comment, sadly some people actually believe this kind of garbage. There's only a /s separating sarcasm and stupidity. I apologize Brumski, but you just never know anymore.
The article only says that the BMV didn't find any false reporting on the titles. That clears the car dealers from possible tax and other legal consequences more than anything else...I don't mean to assume that there were NCAA violations with car purchases. I have no idea. My point is that the headline of the article is misleading as far as what the article itself says.
this isn't surprising. These aren't real cops and this isn't a murder investigation. Investigations taking place in ohio by ohioans will result in myopathy followed by leniance. My belief is that there is such a volume of ugly happenings that have been made public that the NCAA will be forced to deliver stiff sanctions. In the end either osu or the ncaa enforcement committee will suffer (additional) great shame. Since the ncaa gets to make the call it will be osu. Go Blue.
But seriously, I won't be one bit surprised if, at the end of the NCAA's OSU investigation, we find out that a lot of what people like George Dohrmann at Sports Illustrated have been peddling to the public turns out to be garbage, even by those NCAA standards. Rosenberg and Dohrmann follow each other on Twitter. They deserve each other.
It seems commonplace; that when the NCAA completes an investigation of a situation like the one at OSU, that the sanctions seem inadequate and people complain that the NCAA is a spineless enforcer of its own rules. When in fact what people think is that the NCAA hasn't issued punishments for all of the stuff that they read about in Sports Illustrated. In fact SI (and Dohrmann and Rosenberg) have a lot of credibility issues of their own.
I'd never predict it, but it would be so much fun if some of the kids whose names surfaced only in connection with Dohrmann's writing sued him and SI. I hope they do; but I make no predictions.
This is the first I've heard of anyone questioning Dohrmann's credibility. Just becuase he associates with Rosenberg he has credibility issues? Maybe you can clear this up for me because I'm very curious where his issues stem from?
credibility that is willing to put total heresay into print. That SI article didn't contain any proof of anything. It did contain a lot of accusations backed up by supposed witnesses. I'm not saying none of it was true but what proof is there? Word has been lately that 8 of the 9 mentioned in the SI article (active) have been cleared by the NCAA so if that comes to light in the final report, I would say that does in fact put his credibility into question.
Storm Klein's father, Jason, as well as family and friends of Zach Domicone and C.J. Barnett, are all flatly denying the Dohrmann allegations. The case of Storm Klein was sort of interesting -- his father didn't just issue a blanket denial as a press release. He spoke with a reporter. He answered questions. He asserted in no uncertain terms that Storm doesn't have any tattoos, and that he has passed all of his standard drug tests as part of OSU athletics. Attorneys on behalf of many other players named by Dohrmann have inventoried all of their 'special' memorabilia (B10 rings, gold pants, etc., etc.) and have accounted for virtually all of the stuff as being in the current possession of the players and their families. It is all pretty potent rebuttal to Dohrmann.
" It is all pretty potent rebuttal to Dohrmann."
You mean it is a pretty potent rebuttal to Dohrmann's (well-cited) sources.
It's not even that, since as far as I can tell none of the claims being rebutted were ever made in the article. Nowhere in Dohrmann's article is it said or even implied that Storm Klein had a tattoo, for example.
Yeah, that's true as well. I'm not sure how they are purporting to "rebut" the possibility that he sold game-worn stuff for cash (one of the possibilities raised in the article).
"My client's fingerprints aren't on the gun" says the attorney for the getaway driver.
"My client doesn't even have a drivers license" says the attorney for the gunman.
You haven't actually presented info that Dohrmann isn't a credible reporter beyond this investigation, which is what the poster you are commenting to requested. Yes, all of this info does and should bring us to question the story and Dohrmann's sources, but it does not necessarily infringe upon his credibility or the truth of the story. SOP of law is usually to deny everything. Does it surprise me that Storm Klein's father denied everything? No. Denials to the media really aren't too insightful or telling. If Jason Klein and his family friends are deposed and still claim all of this, then we can start credibly questioning if many of these allegations are true. Additionally, I recall from the interview that Jason refused to answer the reporter on whether or not his son was ever present at the parlor. This is a major red flag: Jason denies most of the inflammatory material about his son (insinuating knowledge that it is all untrue), but then doesn't know or doesn't want to answer if his son ever was at the tattoo parlor. Being at the parlor does not mean he ever did anything illegal by NCAA standards, but sure raises questions about what he was doing there and if he knew what was happening. As much as you can question Dohrmann's story, you should also be questioning Jason Klein and Zach Domicone and CJ Barnett who all have emotional connections to Storm Klein. I think most fathers would not bother skewing truth if it means protecting one's son and his reputation.
I don't suppose that I am going to prove anything about OSU's football program, one way or another.
I don't think that George Dohrmann's reporting is going to be the basis for any NCAA sanctions, either.
The NCAA will investigate, and I expect that their investigation will show whether or not they are getting cooperation from OSU players, coaches and admisnitstrators. With good cooperation from OSU, I expect that it will be a good investigation. And then, we will find out about how accurate Dohrmann's reporting was. Like Michigan found out how accurate the Rosenberg/Snyder reporting was. (Not so much.)
People like Dohrmann and Rosenberg just want to sell newspapers, magazines and page-hits. And I just want to raise serious questions about people like Rosenberg and Dohrmann.
Rosenberg didn't fabricate data. His story was technically correct, but intellectually dishonest.
For Dohrman's article to be wrong, he would have to either be committing journalistic fraud on a massive scale, or lots of people would have to be lying to him.
True, people seem to forget that all these sports articles people get inflammed about (numerous topics) are meant to get people reading their stories and buying their magazines so they can make money. Also, true, the NCAA will make a judgment based on their own findings.
My issue was you questioned the credibility of SI and Dohrmann in your first post, and then someone asked what credibility issues are besides the present issues, you cited a parent and family friend's defense of their son. If you were going to use this instance to question his or SI's credibility, then I wanted to point out there are questions regarding Jason Klein's credibility. His defense is questionable until he is willing to go on record or actually bring suit. Additionally, because he tweets with Rosenberg can't be a reason to question his credibility. Twitter is a massive public domain where anyone can have any type of affiliation. Its twitter....
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the info Dohrmann wrote is incorrect. Maybe his sources don't have everything right. Additionally, I think it is more likely Ohio gets some form of punnishment. Maybe not what Michigan fans desire, but there seems to be too much dirt for Dohrmann to have been completely off base.
it doesn't matter how true it was at all. The only realistic means of disproving the article would be for the players to be cleared by the NCAA. No regular family is going to sue SI for slander, that's absurd. If the NCAA does clear the 9 active players, certainly most UM fans but many casual fans will just think the NCAA is spineless. The damage is done in the public eye simply by printing it. The burdon of proof is on the players, how could you prove you didn't sell something for cash? Or that you've never been somewhere? If I claim to have seen a player take cash or weed for a pair of gloves, the only way that player could disprove it would be...what, show the NCAA every pair of gloves he has ever worn in a game? Pass every drug test? Never use cash? Have no tats?
Dohrmann's article added little material. It could be 100% false and it wouldn't make much of a difference.
A fair point, and an excellent one. As I read it, from an NCAA-sanctions perspective, I don't see it as a big deal. If OSU used five arguably-ineligible players, or thirteen arguably-ineligible players, I don't think it will matter much.
In that sense, Dohrmann's article could be 100% true and it wouldn't make much of a difference. At least not to foreseeable sanctions.
First off he's a pulitzer prize winning journalist, which doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible that his sources are wrong, but it's a pretty good indication that his work will stand up.
Two, there's a big difference between illegal (what the motor vehicle board was looking for) and against ncaa rules.
Janet Cooke and Rick Bragg are Pulitzer Prize-winning journalists. The Detroit Free Press has won a number of Pulitzers. So...what.
And yeah, I made the Ohio-law-versus-NCAA-rules distinction already.