I don't think Kentucky actually beat us. I'm starting to think destiny beat us. (And Wisconsin, and Wichita, and Louisville, and even K. St.)
On that note... let's go Huskies!!! Keep it out of SEC country Shabazz.
The depressing thing is I'm 99% sure Kentucky loses seven game series with the last four teams they've played.
That's why they call it the dance of madness.
Who calls it that?!?
Say what you want about the Wildcats but they are a talented team, just young. In each of the last three games the Wildcats pretty much trailed all the first half, caught up in the second half, and won, albeit by a last second three. It was like they were feeling their way through the game. Louisville, ourselves, and Wisconsin are all close to our peaks, the Wildcats are not. They would learn more about their opponents as well as learn to play more as a team then we or the Cards or the Badgers would learn against them. IMHO.
We played pretty badly in that game. And they shot out of their damn minds. We win all four at Crisler and steal at least one at Rupp.
Yeah, but they've beaten Louisville all but once since Calipari arrived...
I can't wait to see the Post-Wrestlemania Monday Night RAW...
Definitely agree. Although that 3 point foul on Jackson was BS, I hate that kind of call more than anything else. Anyone else think Jackson was fouled on that last shot?
problem was that he traveled before the call, so it should have been a travel.
I'm asking about the last shot of the game. It looked like the UK player slapped Jackson's right arm, which I think caused him to lose control of the ball as he was going up. I don't think Jackson was trying to bank it in, I think that was the result of a foul. Anyone with me on this? Probably not...
A 7 - 8 seed National Title game. Wow. I can't believe there's a couple assholes out there on ESPN who have this bracket picked as such.
And you know those assholes will be talking about it non stop for the next week even though it was probably one of their 20 brackets that they picked by rolling dice.
Not a couple. 1,780 had Uconn UK final.
Not watching. First in a long time. CBB has turned into ref fest.
Exactly, CBB is quickly turning into the NBA which I don't watch.
I think you should change your mind. Last night, and just like every night in the tournament really, you pit two teams that are desperate to move on, desperate not to lose. Fouls are going to be committed, probably lots of them. Yeah, I think a lot of fouls were called but I also think more fouls could have been called, maybe should have been. Perhaps it's turn into a ref-fest but it's kind of the nature of the beast.
Calipari convinced Aaron Harrison to take that deal with the devil. Unfortunately I think Kentucky will make hay in the final they match up real well against UConn.
Just a terrible title game. March Madness is great, but it does pinch out some low quality shit sometimes.
Probably feels pretty low right now. Cal called him out post game on national TV, and then did the same in the locker room, watch him go off in the title game.
Is it just me, or does anyone else not feel quite as bad about the Michigan game now?
Watching them pull the same shit makes me feel worse actually. That kind of shot shouldn't be rewarded two games in a row.
Shouldn't be rewarded? The guy made the shot; there's no should or shouldn't. Remember Trey against KU?
It was a horrible shot. His shot to beat us was a horrible shot. Most shots Kentucky takes are pretty horrible shots. They're advancing with almost no offensive flow due to superior athleticism and uncalled offensive fouls, and teams that do that should not be rewarded with a title.
In Trey's case, the 3 was not only necessary to tie the game but very difficult to pull off as Kansas has the option to fould Trey and not allow him a 3 point play. Plus time was way more of a factor, there was very little left.
In Kentucky's case, the last two threes were unnecessary. Against Michigan, it was tied and they had been driving the ball down our throats all night long. Settling for a well-contested 3 isn't exactly the best option in that case...but it worked, so good for them. Last night, a 3 was also unnecessary though more understandable as it gives you the lead, obviously, even if you only need 2 to tie. But in that situation, with plenty of time to get a shot off, the first Harrison brother derped around with the ball dangerously and got lucky to get it to Aaron, who even with some space...shot it from Trey distance, which is not exactly a very reliable shot. I mean, again, it worked, but it's frustrating to watch teams get away with back-to-back final possession shots that in a statistical world probably go in less than 30% of the time (and that's being generous) and were not even the necessary option (seriously...I still have no idea how he didn't go for a drive and score or pull up jumper against us). I mean...that shot was their second made 3 in the entire effing game.
Sometimes teams get real lucky in these tournaments. Kentucky has been good, no doubt, but also crazy damn lucky at the end.
And seriously, it would be nice to see them call an offensive foul once or twice. They've been hyper aggressive with their drives and probably get away with it at least a few times a game.
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, which shot are you referring to?
Take a wild guess.
Well then you are an idiot. Was it great shot selection, no, but he made it. There is no argument for that. Now if you want to argue how the game was called, then I'll probably agree with you. It is not like it was a lucky shot, it was a long contested shot that I'm sure he has made plenty of times in practice.
Personally im happy. I had uconn and kentucky in my draft style marchmadness pool. They were my 5th and 6th round picks. Cant complain about winning acouple hundred dollars
No, but we can complain about you talking about it.
If UConn lets Aaron Harrison take a 3 pointer to win the game they deserve to lose.
Go Huskies. Drown the Harrisons.
Over/Under on Fab Five comparisons on Monday: 22.
Take the over.
never bad for us to have them brought up and put back into kids' consciousness.
But like I said in the other thread, it's a joke to not acknowledge how much better the game was in the early nineties.
But if Kentucky wins, I can hear it now: "They were able to do what the Fab Five were never able to do. They are the true 'Best Freshman Team of all Time'. The crown has been passed on to the new Kings, Blah, Blah, Cats, Calipari, Blah, Blah, Blah."
Go UConn. Watch Harrison.
but it's still a toss up. As long as they keep getting thrown back into the cultural zeitgeist, kids are going to be interested in what the Fab 5 was all about and they remain culturally unique. These Kentucky kids don't have 1/1000000th of the personality of the Fab Fivers.
And I still say that there's no comparison between present day and doing it back in the day when teams were better (not that anyone will care).
But I will certainly be rooting my ass off for UConn.
Laettner and Hurley in their senior seasons, who would have left for the NBA in today's environment.
Neither the "Fab Five" nor UofK's freshment gave a damn about the school printed on their jersey.
''Was that the same fucking guy that hit it against us? It was?! Son of a bitch!''
to hold up against Kentucky.
They have a number of bigs, but they are all slight.
If Kentucky shoots well from outside, I don't know.
You wonder if all this athleticism shuts down Napier - the best coaches in the land should be putting their heads together and submitting a concise set of suggestions for Ollie to use or disregard.
Florida tried that and the rest of the team beat them. MSU had size and couldn't beat Uconn. I think Uconn's guard play wlll take out Kentucky like they did MSU and ISU.
but Kentucky will be throwing a combination of size and athleticism at UConn's guards that MSU and Florida could not match.
Still, maybe we will find out that UConn's guards are just that quick - that would be a most pleasant discovery.
I hated the announcers acting dumbfounded that Wisconsin let him take that shot. Kid has been a sub 35% 3 pt shooter all season and was 4 feet beyond the line. Just because he made a couple of big shots the last two games doesn't mean you throw out all scouting and go by the last two games.
When the other team is down by 2 with 7 seconds left in the game that is exactly the type of shot you want them to take when a mediocre 3 shooter has the ball. Likely a long rebound so no easy tap in and he's unlikely to make that shot.
that ain't that kid's first dagger, smh.
Sure, but he ain't Robert Horry either... At least not yet.
I tell my team no allowed 3s. I'd rather them get a contested 2 than a wide open 3 pointer for the very likely win.
that Wisconsin thought a team with Kentucky's talent would opt for a long three. I would have been just as concerned about them getting into the paint for a shot and foul.
I am so annoyed because Michigan should be in the title game, but whatever. Football?
I will take solace in that.
Can we though?
only because watching finese guards who can shoot and actually slash is more entertaining than watching power guards who bull rush and can only shoot last second dagger threes.
Let me know who wins.
if they can stay on the floor, maybe their guards are a little quicker? And can cause a little havoc when Kentucky is on offense?
I'm searching for what UConn can do. It sure seems like way way better basketball was being played on our side of the bracket.
This tourney has been one of the best in memory. Lots of close games."upsets", and dramatic shots. Maybe UCOnn will figure out to put one of the 60% FT shooters on the line, late in the game, instead of letting the Harrisons get off.
For real? I think this tourney has been one of the worst I've ever seen. Few star players, no compelling story lines, a horrible title game matchup, inconsistent officiating, and some pretty poor basketball all the way around. It's been awful.
Don't forget about the media's non-stop love for Kentucky.
ref's love too.
I think it has been one of the weakest tournament fields, but I definitely think it's been an exciting as hell stretch, with some really great games.
What about the year Duke one it? I felt like that was one of the worst title teams ever.
threads tonight in that exact vein.
That was definitely one of the worst title teams ever (they beat Butler).
Very emblematic of the kind of team that could shuck and jive its way through a weak modern-era field and snare a title.
Who else do you look back at that would be similar? Rollie's Villanova? Pervis and Crum's Louisville? Well, it turns out those teams were pretty damn good if you actually look at who was on the floor. And instead of going through Butler, they had to prove their mettle by going through absolute beasts who were guarding the gate.
Very weak field, hence why we have a 7 seed vs an 8 seed. I think this will be the new norm. Kids aren't going to stay in school long enough to become great teams or for us as fans to connect to them
God forbid that five of the most talented players are playing in the title game as well as one of the most heroic senior players (Shabazz) in recent memory. I don't see how this has been a bad tournament. Many of the best teams have made it far. There have been an abundance of exciting games, too.
Kentucky, and one and two and dones, is the way of the future. Wisky almost pulled off a Hoosiers type effort but couldn't run the picket fence. We can thank super AAU teams for the one and done philosophy.
I would agree officiating has been questionable, but it has been consistent/even within games. If you believe Dayton's run, any of Kentucky's five games, MSU's games vs Virginia and UConn, NDSU,Harvard,et.al for starters were not terrific games - then we have different definitions of exciting basketball. I personally like back and forth, last possession games and "upsets" - not sure the NCAA committee watches games because many of the seeds were way too low., but that is a discussion for another day.
Really? Few star players: Napier doing his Kemba Walker/Trey Burke impersonation, Julius Randle getting a double-double in every game, Payne going for 40+ in the first round, Florida's upperclassman and Kentucky's freshman advancing to the Final Four.
Compelling Storylines: a 7 vs 8 championship isn't enough for you? Harrison hitting 3 straight game winning 3s, Kentucky being the first team to beat 3 of the previous season's Final Four teams, Duke losing to Mercer along with a slew of upsets and buzzer beaters.
I can't make tangible arguments for officiating or quality of basketball but just because our run wasn't as magical as last doesn't make this a terrible tournament.
...who got three minutes, one rebound and missed a shot and who I didn't realize had even played until I checked the box score, no one that saw the floor for Kentucky tonight will ever get a degree from the university, or even came to the school with the possibility in mind.
And that's got me wondering about something that I think first hit my brain watching a few minutes of Findlay Prep and Oak Hill or whatever prep school was playing in that national HS tournament on ESPN earlier today, and comparing that to the high school basketball I see at my alma mater every Friday night.
I still go, all these decades later, because the kids represent a community I was part of. I went to school with the father of one of the players, my sister went to school with the father of one of the assistant coaches, they all live on the same streets I grew up on and they take classes in the same buildings I once did. If they didn't, if they'd come in from all over the country or world for a year or two of high level basketball to get ready for their upcoming, and hopefully single, year of college hoops, I'd have no interest whatsoever.
Does it work that way in college sports too? Is there a point where the players could be so disconnected from the student body that you would lose interest? Does it matter that the players attend classes? That some of them graduate? Or is the name on the shirt enough?
My tone might be wrong here--I don't mean for this to be a rhetorical question. Kentucky fans don't seem to mind, that's for sure.
explicitly states that his mission is to showcase 5 star freshmen and put them in a position to be one-and-dones, it's not like what happens there is vastly different than what Beilein is creating at Michigan. Morris, Burke, Timmy, Nik, GR3, McGary, and maybe LeVert will all leave Michigan before getting a degree.
For one thing that was sort of my point; for a second, Horford and Morgan play more than three minutes per game. (Not to mention Albrecht and others, but these two we can be certain of....)
There is some distance between some and zero. Is there a line, anywhere? What if schools hired professional athletes to represent them who weren't actually students at all?
Granted it was heat of the moment but Dekker and frank the tank said they are coming back next year with confidence.
and here is a frustrating thing.
Do you think if Dekker was at Michigan, he wouldn't have been a much more solid bet to leave after year 2, and be well set up for it?
With a guy like Dekker, Ryan seems to do a good job of bringing them along, but bringing them along slowly - not too fast.
I think Dekker would be in no brainer position to leave if he had been coached by our staff for two years, and yet the reward there belongs to Bo Ryan, who will have a sick team next year if this is the outcome.
Kids want to play in the NBA. Part of being an effective recruiter, outside of one and dones, is getting people into the NBA. What has Beilein done to show he can't recover from talent losses? The whining here is insufferable, but I love this post because it shows peoples true intentions: they don't care about the purity of the game or kids coming back for their degree -- they want the best players on a winning team.
I want a winning team -
and that's a surprise?
How does this show any of these things that you mention?
No, I don't give a fig about the Wisky kids and their degrees - I'm not thrilled about them being potentially unstoppable next year. And Wisky kids go to class, which makes it much more likely they can get their degrees eventually, even if it doesn't happen in the first 4/5 years.
I can't even follow the logic of your post.
Bo Ryan is an evil genius - that much I'm sure of - even in getting a kid like Hayes, it's another example of a perfect kid for the college game with one flaw that will keep him from the NBA - lack of height for the position he would play - Bo is very good at having a strategy in this current era of CBB.
But please, lay out for me what it is I'm supposed to be rooting for so that I can be a great fan like you.
if the Wolverines were not so reliant on underclassmen it would also help.
Are you saying Beilein is too good of a coach so that he can't keep players too long or are you saying Bo Ryan purposely restricts player development(which I'm not sure how you do that) to ensure they stay 4 years?
but yes, to a certain extent, through some combination of player development by Beilein and staff, individual work by the players themselves, and availability of the resources to put in the work, a few of our players may have developed a mite bit faster than would be ideal. And although people would say we seem to be doing fine even with the departures from last year - and yes, it's been awesome - the #1 difficulty we had in standing up to Kentucky's onslaught was youth. 3* and 4* players need multiple years to develop the physical strength/stoutness to provide resistance to that kind of power game (5*s are often physical freaks who step on campus physically ready - see: Aaron Gordon, or even Poythress who comes off Kentucky's dang bench).
On to Wisconsin, this part sort of surprises me that people would view this as all that hard to understand. One, Ryan has done a genius job of identifying players who are likely to be four year players, but players of elite value - see: Brust, Gasser, probably Hayes, etc.
Two, you really don't know how a coach can slow a player from blowing up on the NBA radar? Ryan eased up on the reins slightly this year, but Wisconsin is way more systems-based than we are. Wisconsin also strongly emphasizes a five man game, and team offense over individual offense which lessens the likelihood of a player blowing up. It's a testament to Kaminsky's unique offensive talent that he emerged as he did late. But what did he average, like 13 points a game, in that system?
Systems don't necessarily slow down a player's development, but they can keep a player under wraps. Does Michael Jordan ring a bell?
As to Dekker, honest question, just looking at his skill set - you don't think he would have been in a position where he pretty much had to go pro at the end of this season if he was playing in our system and with our player development? It may just have been a sophomore slump, but I have a hard time seeing how he wouldn't have been a lottery pick by the end of this year if his uniform was maize and blue. Not saying he should have come here or anything - he's a Wisconsin kid - but just that I'm a little surprised at where he was at by the end of the season in light of where I thought he would be (and many shared this view) when the season started.
a team of one-and-doners hero-balling their way to the title game.
Of their last four games, we were the furthest from knocking them off and we still had a chance to go up 1 in the final minute. This D-league team would lose series against every team they've played so far but K-State. It's awful that their team (and that moron who tattooed "Kentucky 2014 National Champions" on his leg 6 months ago) might be rewarded
Bo Ryan finally got what he deserved a loss, nobody in Divison one basketball influences the refrees more, I am glad Kentucky won they should have never beat Michigan but I am glad the Badgers are out. I can't stand Wisconsin basketball at all.
Well, if anyone is interested, here's how the comparison stats look:
|Avg Score Margin||+8.5||+8.7|
|Effective FG %||50.1%||51.7%|
|Off Rebound %||41.8%||28.6%|
|Opp Effective FG %||45.9%||44.6%|
You guys sound whiny. You don't have to be a fan of either team but it's still a championship game which is exciting in any sport regardless of who's playing.
Go Uconn! Who cares if two guys on the team will graduate nobody on Kentucky will! Sorry, had to.
1) Freshmen improve during the course of the year (Kentucky was preseason #1)
1A) Dilution of talent - top players leave early, leveling the playing field.
2) Format of tournament: getting hot at end of year negates season's work. How come when it happens in NFL or NHL no one here complains? Same with B1G money maker ...err tournament.
3) NCAA committee doesn't know what it is doing. Or does and really has agendas for things like making Wichita State's run as hard as possible, and seeing TV match ups like OSU v Dayton, or Louisville v Kentucky.
Players leaving early is hurting the college game, but unfortunately not its brand. The tournament still draws the same crowd and creates the same excitement, even if the quality of play isn't what it used to be.
Florida was considered the best team because of their seniors. Which of those seniors will ever play in the nba? It's doubtful there will ever be an experienced team with nba talent in college again.
maybe its just me but I despise KY and its one and done NBA farm system..its ruining College BB AND Calipari whose previous two teams before KY BOTH went on NCAA Probabtion and its NCAA wins vacated is everything that is WRONG with college sports...KY hires a KNOWN cheater then turns its campus into a NBA farm system where athletes could care less about getting a education or going to class for that matters its ALL about the NBA Money...I dont watch pro sports much because of this....the bad news is KYS system is working....
Stauskus, GR3 and McGary PLEASE come back and you will be the preseason No 1 and fav to win it all next year....
But I think the Cats cut down the nets tomorrow, in a close game.
I hate Calipari, but his team is really playing some good basketball. I'm reluctantly pulling for UConn (I hated them for a while, but Ollie seems to be a great young coach).
UK wins (Young is a solid player, and I like their depth more than UConn).
Rooting for Uconn. Uconn will, of course, lose