thank you for adding nothing
Turner's Future and how that relates to RR/Staff
i'm waiting for someone to give their opinion on what UM's record would have been if they had not lost Dorsey, Cissoko and JT panned out and Warren didn't go to the NFL, compounded only by if MSU DID play OSU this year and if Nebraska was included
and then argue about it for an hour when someone disagrees with the 9-4 prediction
10-3 at a minimum.
11-2 because OSU doesn't have Pryor and Stanzi is actually a mobile double threat qb
my bad, next time I'll fill in the blanks for you.
After all, we now know that no matter what happens, Turner leaving is very telling.
That's something. Isn't it?
I always seem to make the mistake of confusing MGoBlog's forums with a spot where Michigan football fans can have actual intellectual discussions on relevant topics. I forgot that there are "posters" like you on here that don't have the intellectual fortitude to actually add anything to these discussions. From now on I'll just lurk and read Brian's posts while you keep racking up those valuable MGoBlog points.
is very telling.
I am all for intellectual discussions. I just dont think we need to resort to the level of espn announcers/freep writers with speculation and opinions based on nothing and rumors.
...are cranky today. It happens.
We got kicked in the nuts, you write a post that says, "hey, we just got kicked in the nuts, and I wonder what it means."
It means our nuts hurt, man, stop reminding us.
I'll get back to you in a few minutes, after I ask someone with one of them fancy college degrees what you meant by that. Meanwhile, YEE-HAH, got me another point!
You've gotta be nearing the record for most pos-banged post in MGoHistory.
However I think Turner's future will be very
interestingtelling with regard to RR and his staff and how they manage a program.
you can only coach someone so much, they have to have the desire to play.
Care to tell us what those telling things are, uh, telling us?
Certainly. The following is my opinion of what his future would mean to RR and his staff.
If he transfers to another D1 and succeeds then there is something wrong with the way RR and his stafff manage the players and the program.
If he transfers to another D1 and basically does jack-shit then RR and his staff are doing something right.
If he transfers to a non-D1 it shows that he can't compete or doesn't have the desire to compete at the highest level of college football, and RR and his staff are doing something right.
If he never plays football again then he doens't love football enough to play at the highest level of college football, and RR and his staff couldn't do anything to change it.
Everyone has their opinion, but this would be mine.
Michigan just wasn't the right fit for this one particular kid, for whatever reason. There doesn't have to be a grand explanation for every single thing that happens. For all we know, his departure could have nothing to do with football.
Isn't it telling that you think there's no grand explanation for every single thing that happens?
I think you are painting with too broad of a bush here. Trying to read anything into how RR and his staff handle players based on one or two situations is probably not going to be useful or lead to any sort of meaningful conclusions. I think we should leave that to the mainstream sports media, who are happy to sensationalize every tiny occurence. In my mind, there are 80 or so counter examples to anything you would try to make of JTs success or failure where ever he lands. Every program loses folks for various reasons, and that may or may not be a reflection on the coach and his unique relationship with that player.
I tend to believe that it is more interesting to talk about how his departure impacts the teams on-field performance than what it might mean about how Rich Rod handles his players.
(edited slightly for clarity)
I think there's about a 90% chance the reason JT is leaving is because he doesn't like playing football very much. At this point in his career, the coaches couldn't have had much to do with it.
He could also be homesick or not cut out for, or doesn't have the heart for, being a student-athlete, with all of the demands involved.
Jesus! there's nothing to see here.
Isn't he only a couple hours away from home? Or did you just mean Ohio made him physically sick like it does all of us in Michigan?
If we win lots next year, it's telling. If we lose lots next year, that's also telling. However, I predict that any win/loss combination can be telling, in and of itself!
Not just telling, but very telling.
You're "telling" me.
If we do well this year Turner will just be a random footnote in the history of UM football... regardless of what he does or does not accomplish on another team.
Hmph. I guess we're going to be relegated to play underclassmen in the secondary for the rest of eternity with the secondary attrition that we're undergoing every year.
like 12 more db's this year. That could possibly leave enough to make it through a couple years.
You know what else is very telling? However Michigan plays this year (wins a lot or doesn't win a lot) which will happen long before any of the things you listed for Turner, so I don't really care.
I disagree, I think that's too much referendum on the staff by a couple of players. Everyone responds to coaching differently and maybe these kids didn't like the approach. I'm only judging Rich by his wins and losses
"This sucks! We're done! No chance we can win now!"
"This is the best thing that could happen for the program! Now we can win championships!"
"This is the best way for us to tell if the coaches are doing a good job!"
If I had any self control I'd just work for the rest of the afternoon instead of reading this shit.
You have 18,000+ points. I'm kind of surprised you've held onto a job.
I'm sure if he got fired he could make a living selling MGoPoints
I'm either so incredibly smart that I can get all my work done in half the time OR summer IT internships aren't always the most demanding jobs. Take your pick.
and you said 'Computer School'"
Time to lock down the board?
Wait until the first "lose to a team we shouldn't have" game (there's almost always at least one a season). The board will be utter chaos.
If I had any self control I'd just work for the rest of the afternoon instead of reading this shit.
Just Win Baby! Do that and everything else with take care of itself.
So basically, regardless of what happens with Turner, it's very telling. And possibly interesting. Got it, thanks for clearing that up.
Seriously, this season is going to decide (fuck I wanted to use "telling" there so bad) alot with regards to RR's future. What Justin Turner does next year or the year after is meaningless.
and I agree, this is very perplexing, and possibly very alarming news. "Safety and Corner Hating Gods" was a clever but dismissive routine for a while, but seriously, what is going on here. Starting with Morgan Trent's dismal 2008, Donovan Warren's disappointing 2009, the Cissoko debacle, Brandon Smith, JT Turner. The bleeding has to stop at some point. Why is this happening to Michigan's secondary?
It started in '05, when the two CB recruits were 3-star Johnny Sears and 3-star 155# "athlete" Chris Richards. It continued in '06 when zero (z-e-r-o) CBs were added.
Those weren't the only bad recent years.
The only disappointing thing Warren did in 09 was leave early. I mean, yeah, that sucked tremendously for the team and was probably an awful career move to boot, but on the field he was lights out. He was 1st Team All-Big Ten and would have entered his senior year as a potential All-American.
Well in general, when one is conducting research that attempts to explain why something happened one should not fall into the trap of assuming that the result of some process tells us why it happened. In other words, the result does not tell us why the result happened. Assuming it does is a tautology.
Wouldn't it have been easier to just say "correlation does not imply causation?"
That was a very telling content.
That this is the situation with the Zen master and the little boy?
Justin Turner is no longer in the program. The future of RR and this team will be determined by what happens on the field. Maybe I'm just telling myself that - but I believe it.
Now that is a brilliant ad campaign!
I'm going to be sad when my 50+ points expire only because I will no longer be able to plus 1 things like this. Sigh.
And as a former Tokyo resident, I wish you well.
is that with the 3 safeties, you really don't have a need for a nickel CB, which places a bit less need for depth at CB. Hopefully Floyd and TWoolf can hold it down with Cullen getting some reps as well.
and he kept away from them, I thought that was a pretty significant comment; not saying Justin is/was a disease, but this move seems like an odd coincidence when combined with Troy's statement.
to the op's comments can we deduce that his future success or a lack there of can have either a positive or a negative appearance on this program? I suppose if I was drinkng this early in the afternoon, that would make sense but in the sober state that I hapen to be in right now I tend to think more of a guy named Sam Mcguffie who left for personal reasons and was (not litterally, but you know) never talked about again. Let us remember that this year he will be able to play again and from what I have seen he is not being used as the litmus test for RR, the staff, or the program. my guess is that in 3 months the question will be JT WHO.
to the op's comments can we deduce that his future success or a lack there of can have either a positive or a negative appearance on this program? I suppose if I was drinkng this early in the afternoon, that would make sense but in the sober state that I hapen to be in right now I tend to think more of a guy named Sam Mcguffie who left for personal reasons and was (not litterally, but you know) never talked about again. Let us remember that this year he will be able to play again and from what I have seen he is not being used as the litmus test for RR, the staff, or the program.
McGuffie had concussion-induced depression, and needed a year off from football simply because his brains needed to re-find that comfy spot in the head. Doing that in a town far from home during a rebuilding project where tensions are extremely high and he hasn't known anybody for more than few months, well, that wasn't a great option. And there were family issues that made it even harder for him to be away.
He didn't transfer to a team that will play Michigan, or to his other options during recruiting. He went to a great school near home.
Sam's leaving didn't say anything about McGuffie, or the program. It was just one of those bad luck things.
Plus, Sam's position was filled with other players similar to him, and at the time he left there were two seniors at the top of the depth chart, and lots and lots of young talent.
Turner leaves either because RR cared more about program values not being violated than placating a high-calibur recruit, or because Turner's will was not strong enough, or maybe both.
Over weight and out of shape and unable to crack a lineup where the secondary was in shambles. Had all season to turn around is unwillingness to actually get into shape and could of started. Comes in his second season at almost 200 pounds and out of shape. I just don't understand what that has to do with the coach. This guy blatanly diddn't want to play and apparently never cared enough to think for two seconds, hey if I get into shape I/m starting for this team last year and this year. It's a tought loss because of his potential but obviously his work ethic is an issue. Good riddens let's move on people.
Now the OP certainly would be placed in the high-risk category, with regard to getting negbanged, pretty much any time of year. But I'm going easy on him.
For one, this board is not loathe to repeat the same justifications ad infinitum, and so I will invoke the tried-and-true, "Hey, it's nearing the end of the offseason and we're all cracking a bit, becoming highly vulnerable to looking too deeply into little things." In the absense of true substance, the mind creates subtance-like-substance. So there's that.
But if these "telling" signs are, indeed, telling us anything, their message should not be considered to exist in a vacuum. The OP is pointing out that this departure may reflect a failure, by the coaching staff, to manage difficult attitudes -- and that certain circumstances, if observed down the road, would allow us to infer such a conclusion. And this is not the first time evidence has pointed to inability to manage and motivate players (consider the Illinois debacle last season, among others).
We all know that RR has received undue negative press, and we are aware of the dearths of talent lately -- but that does not necessarily paint the entire picture. We're dealing with a football team, it's a complex system, so linear causal pathways --although conveniently used by people of diverse affiliations-- are not going to be accurate. There may be more to the picture than a lack of talent in the cupboard. Winning football games is a human endeavor, after all, and so psychology is the most important factor (at least, so say the majority of players and coaches... /anecdote). And one's psychology can be influenced, mediated, and modified.. Some players are hopeless, but there is a gradient between "cancer" and "problem." If Turner pans out elsewhere, why wouldn't it indicate a failure of management here?
Anyway, just my ten cents.
(1) We have no idea what will happen to Turner, so there's not much reason to speculate about what hypothetical future scenarios MIGHT mean in terms of the Michigan staff's handling of the issue.
(2) As you point out, these matters are sufficiently complex that it's hard to pin blame on any one factor, even when in the future we will be able to look back on Turner's collegiate career.
(3) He's ONE PERSON, certainly not enough evidence to establish a pattern.
RR and his staff should be judged on the success and progress of the program as a whole, not the success and progress of one particular player. I hope that Turner's absence doesn't have a big effect on the success of the team this year. Based on what people have been saying, it sounds like he would have had a steep hill to climb in terms of his conditioning to make a significant impact on the field this year.