They did well this year and also did pretty well in the tourny. This is very surprising.
Tennessee is not recruiting well just because they got 18 dudes
They did well this year and also did pretty well in the tourny. This is very surprising.
This was his job as soon as they lost in the B1G tourney. Sweet 16 or bust. The sentiment around the Cities was that this is his best team. If he cant get win the conference with his best team or make it to the Sweet 16 with his best team then he is not good enough. I agree they had a a really fun team to watch and the win over IU was huge for the program. Also, does Minny really want another Brewster to follow after Mason.
I made this argument to my MN alumni friend and he said sure, but we will get Shaka Smart. I said, he turned down U of I. He said, Minny's AD was the AD at VCU and he and Shaka are besties. I said, oh, then he should get fired.
Would bring competitiveness up another notch from a coaching standpoint. Not sure if he can recruit like Tubby.
If that's true, then this decision can essentially be evaluated by whether or not they get Shaka Smart. If they get him, great move. If they don't, I'd be shocked if they get someone much better than Smith to come to Minnesota right now, especially knowing that Smith's performance at Minnesota could get you fired.
but that's just lil ol' results-oriented me.
...no offense to your friend, if this is the case, pretty sure Shaka is picking UCLA over Minnesota.
I don't know. Shaka seems like a different sort of cat. I could see him picking Minny over UCLA because of loyalty and/or a great relationship with a former AD. I mean, we're talking about a guy who after VCU's final four run basically had his pick of where he could have gone, and he chose to stay at VCU.
He will pick Minnesota because this is the S-E-C of basketball, baby!
They didn't do that well this year. They went 8-10 in Big Ten play with a pretty talented roster. They did win their first tournament game in over a decade, though. I would have thought that win would have bought him an extra year.
If UCLA fired Howland because of the embarrassing loss to MN, in hopes of getting Shaka Smart to replace him... Then when MN loses, they fire their coach in hopes of getting Shaka Smart...
Shaka must have an awesome agent calling AD's as their teams get bumped from the tournament...
The comparison of Minnesota's firing of Tubby Smith to the football firing of Glen Mason is the first thing that comes to mind. While it is frustrating that it seems like Minnesota can do no better than making the NCAA's and maybe winning 1 game, I am not sure the successor they bring in can even expect to do that well. If Minnesota is able to bring in a big-time coach like Shaka, that would be one thing. However, I would have to think Shaka would need to be offered one of the premier jobs in the country to leave VCU right now. Minnesota, while definitely a step-up, is not one of the premier jobs in the country. Glen Mason seemed to consistently go between 7-5 and 9-3 ish and didn't do well in bowl games and never won the B10. Still, his results were better than what came before or what is going to come after him. Minnesota football has a ceiling and it isn't the Rose Bowl. That program wasn't going to do any better than what they were doing under Glen Mason. I am not sure the Minnesota basketball program will do much better under another coach either. I was kind of surprised when Tubby even took the Minnesota job in the first place coming after a National Championship at Kentucky. I understand the frustration and the disappointment the Gopher faithful have over this year's team not meeting expectations but I just don't think B10 Titles or Final 4's are realistic at Minnesota.
In 1997, Minnesota won the Big Ten and went to the Final Four. (They did later vacate that season, though IIRC it was due to academic fraud and not recruiting irregularities.) Basketball is a different can of worms from football. The state of Minnesota will probably never produce enough talent to sustain a quality football program, but they can get it done in basketball. You only need a couple of stars and can fill out the rest of the roster with role players. You don't need 85 guys like in football.
Wow. I'm shocked.
Why? Minnestota has a long and storied tradition of winning Championships in college sports, their fan base expects titles.
Welcome back to irrelevance gophers.
they been relevant?
Were they not ranked in the toughest conference in the country this year?
They were ranked in the top 10 early on in league play. But that made their collapse (they lost 12 of their last 18 games) that much more inexplicable. Whether this was a fireable offense, I don't know, but I definitely thought they underperformed.
Well, they were in the top 10 at one point this year and beat a ranked sparty and #1 indiana.
more reason by their epic collapse in inexcusable. This team was supposed to be something this year. An 11 seed and a second round exit is not relevant.
You don't have to win the national title to be relevent, especially considering I would consider us relevent and we are in the sweet 16 for the first time in 19 years.
Minnesota lost to one of the best teams in the tournament after a very good season. They were certainly relevent and I'm shocked Tubby got fired.
they had a very good season?
Its all relative and semantics at this point. What does "very" mean?? Minnesota has been an average (above-average?) program for years and they had a very good season in a tough conference. I think that much is clear. But did they have a "very" good season compared to Indiana or Michigan? I guess maybe not.
All that said, I'm not sure Minnesota will get much better under someone other than Tubby Smith.
Minnesota has been an average (above-average?) program for years and they had a very good season in a tough conference. I think that much is clear.
Is a 21-13 (8-10 conf.) season really "very good," given that this was the year Minnesota had been pointing to for years? They had quite a bit of talent this year, and occasionally they showed this (beating IU and MSU, demolishing UCLA). But far too often they didn't.
For Minnesota standards... yes.
Their AD obviously disagreed.
We sound pretty patronizing here. We would not be thrilled to never post a winning Big Ten season in six years and win only one tournament game in that time, so why should Minnesota?
Beilein and Smith were both hired in 2007. In their first year, Michigan went 10-22 overall and 5-13 in Big Ten play, while Minnesota went went 20-14 and 8-10, respectively. At that point, Minnesota's program seemed in better shape than ours.
This year, Michigan has gone 28-7 and 12-6, respectively. And Minnesota? 21-13 overall and 8-10. We improved; they spun their wheels. I'm surprised that he did get fired after finally winning a tournament game, but I can understand it completely.
By this definition, UNC wasn't relevant either. Should the Heels fire Roy Williams?
c'mon bueller. roy's won big at that program and everywhere else - tubby has done nothing at minnesota and really nothing in quite a while. this argument is beneath you.
Given their bid and run in a year this strong in competition- makes no sense.
His Kesha dance alone should have staved off the pink slip
Who in the world would they hire that's an upgrade? Terrible decision IMO
Does Minnesota still have the same AD who decided it was a good idea to can Glen Mason? If the answer is "yes", one has to wonder if the AD isn't actually a fan of some other B1G team and is conspiring to destroy Minnesota sports from the inside.
Maybe he thinks they can pull Shaka away from VCU?
from that article, Tubby on the hiring of Minnesota's new AD:
Said Smith: "I'm fired up."
The comparison to Glen Mason is faulty for several reasons. The most important one is that the state of Minnesota produces some very good basketball talent. 2 of the top 10 players in the 2014 class are from MN and there is another highly regarded 4 star. In contrast, Minnesota is a wasteland for football recruits. Furthermore, the basketball program has a history of success that does not outdate the forward pass. Minnesota went to the final four in 1997 (yes this officially off the record books due to kids not doing there own homework).
Whether this proves to be a good decision is completly dependent on who they hire. Rumor here in MN, is that a coach has already accepted an offer.
While Tubby is the king of dancing to Kesha, he is not a good coach. Players have not improved under him. This is a team that had the perfect combination of young talent and leadership. Mbwake is in his 6th year. No way the Gophers should have been a bubble 11 seed team.
surprising at all. To say that they did pretty well in the tournament this year is to forget that this team was in the Top 10 in January. They have 3 potential pros. Getting to the second round of the tournament is not doing well the tournament for a team with that talent. Minnesota has been underacheiving pretty consistently under Smith and from watching him this season I don't think his heart was in it.
I guess you don't remember what Minnesota was like before Tubby for there.
Minnesota was down after suffering sanctions following its final four team. This is very comprable to how Michigan was down following the Fab 5.
I dislike the Gophers as much as almost anyone else on this blog (I left MN to go to undergrad at Michigan), but I think you guys are over exageriting how low of expectations Minnesota should have.
Am I missing something here? Since when has there hatred for Minnesota among the Michigan fanbase? Maybe in hockey, I suppose, but as far as Big Ten teams go, I've always sort of liked them.
No, there is no real hatred for UofMN from Michigan fans in my experience. The Little Brown Jug is so onesided that is impossible for real hatred to exist. My point was only that I have more reason to dislike the Gophers than most on this board and that people are being excessively pessimistic about the Gophers' future in basketball.
They lost in the second round to FLORIDA, fer crissakes. The same Florida that spent most of the year in the top 5. It's not like they got run off the court by FGCU...
No, that will be Florida.
Reasons this is perplexing: Tubby got Minny to tourney 3 out of 6 seasons (NIT two seasons); prior to that, Minny made the tournament ONE time since 1989 (if you don't count the "unofficial," wiped out Haskins' seasons). Also, Tubby isn't a great coach by any stretch; but he recruits well, and frankly, I'm not sure what more Minny honestly expects? This feels like a Glen Mason situation.
Reasons this makes sense: Tubby recruits great, but doesn't get a ton out of his talent. Again, not a great coach. Finally, Minny's AD is really plugged into CBB coaching, having started Villa 7. Dude also hired Shaka Smart at VCU, so obviously he thinks he knows what he's looking for.
We shall see. Seems really, really risky to me.
I remember thinking when Glen Mason got let go that Minnesota had a coach who is consistently in the bowl games and finishes in the upper half of the Big Ten -- why would they let him go? Do they really think that they'll become Ohio State or Michigan without the history, money or recruiting base?
I feel the same way about this decision -- they made the round of 32. They had an exciting, albeit inconsistent, team. I realize that Minnesota probably looks east and says -- if Wisconsin can do it in football and basketball we can too. That's possible, but it's more likely that they become Penn State or Nebraska in basketball.
That's a shame. He didn't do a great job but they were a team we were worried about on our schedule because of Tubby.
Huh? I never feared Minnesota when he was there. IIRC, we've won 9 of 10 against them.
the game at the barn worried me the most and I thought it was a huge win for us. That is a very hard place to play, just ask MSU and IU.
It is traditionally a tough place to play, but it's been much easier for us to win there while Tubby has been there than it was before he arrived. We haven't lost there since Beilein's first season. I don't understand the idea that Smith personally struck fear in Michigan fans.
Once again Minnesota has forgotten they are Minnesota.
Two words: Glenn Mason
Minnesota should be kissing Tubby's feet. Why would they fire him? Glen Mason anyone?
of Tim Brewster that will make people nostalgic for the glory days of Tubby?
As dumb as when they fired Glen Mason. 7 seasons later, the football team still hasn't recovered.
terrible decision. AD should just go ahead and fire himself
That move makes no sense, unless they already have someone lined up (if Shaka wouldn't leave VCU for Illinois, why would he leave for Minny). With NW canning Carmody, and now Minnesota firing Tubby, this seems to be the year of stupid Big Ten coaching moves for teams who for some reason think they can get someone better than who they already have.
Sparty gonna'....wait Minny gonna Minny.
Apparently the whole Glenn Mason episode didnt teach them anything about firing a steady as she goes coach...
That AD better get Shaka Smart.
Their AD and associate AD have something in mind. They did hire Shaka Smart at VCU and started the Villa 7, so it's not like they're incompetent at dealing with basketball coaches. This could get real interesting.
O/U on amount of Glen Mason mentions 20.
Just to be devil's advocate... Minnesota Basketball is not Minnesota Football. There are a ton of good basketball prospects that come out of the Twin Cities area. The fan base is also a lot more interested in basketball than football. I think it's a school where you can do well with a much higher upside than football.
I think Minnesota's biggest problem in sports is Wisconsin. When you see your neighbor doing so much with so little, it drives you crazy.
They have a lot more to lose than to gain with this. There's a reason Pitt extended Dixon, because they realized he might not be one of the best, but the odds of getting someone better were worse than of them getting someone worse. Indeed, Gken Mason'ed.
On the bright side, Smith will land on his feet, just like Illinois's coach. He's good enough a decent program will want him.
don't think he wants to coach anymore. I think this was more of a mutual parting of ways.
Do you have a reason for thinking that or is it just a gut feeling?
really did not appear invested in the team. He was always a very fierce competitor but I saw very little emotion out of him, win or lose. His interview were very surface and he really did not seem that invested. I think Minnesota could have been really good this year but I don't think they were coached up at all.
I would part with anyone mutually if they gave me 2.5 million
I think everyone is overrating Tubby a bit here. He had a nice run early at Kentucky but really tailed off team performance wise in his last few years there. At Minnesota in six years he has made the tournament just three times and made it out of the first round just once.
In his six years in the Big Ten he has never finished above .500 and only finished at .500 in two of those years, with 6th in the Big Ten his highest conference finish. His super talented team this year finished 8 and 10 in conference and tied for 7th.
I think it is easier to be succesful as a basketball coach then a football coach at Minnesota. While they may hire someone worse then Tubby, I believe they can certainly find someone better as well.
I just spent three months making fun of how terrible he is, so I don't think this is a bad move. Minnesota was, at worst, the fifth most talented team in the Big Ten this year. Adjust for Wisconsin bullshit and they should still finish better than 8-10 and getting to the second round because they drew an even worse coach than Tubby.
have a big name lined up...I think this is a bad move right now.
Not really surprising to me. They finished 9th in the B1G, only ahead of Nebraska, NW, PSU. They started out hot and failed down the stretch. They were terribly inconsistent, beating Wisconsin, then losing to Iowa, then beating Indiana, and losing to Nebraska. Last year, they were 1-7 in February, only beating Nebraska. The year before that, they finished the season 1-10, only beating Iowa. The two years before that, they made the tournament, but lost in the first round. It seems the only reason they had a win in the tournament during his tenure is that the opponent didn't have their starting PG for the game. If they are trying to build a program, getting a coach that can maximize the talent on that team could propel them out of mediocrity as soon as next year.
I'm not sure Smith qualifies as a good coach at this point in his career. He went 46-62 in B1G play.
I think this was the right move for Minnesota. Or at least, the first step to the right move. Tubby had 3 visits to the dance with Minnesota, only making it to the round of 32 once. The problem is, they are going to bring in someone who is no better than Tubby, most likely. There is not as much draw for big names like Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart ot leave their schools, especially to coach at Minnesota. If they can't make a big splash with their hire, I don't see them going to the dance again for 3-4 years.
How did they tell a Tubby the news?
(please take this computer from me now)
not sure about the decision to fire Tubby.
however, i am sure most of the people in this thread are probably related to Glen Mason.
No, we just like his hot wife.
Florida Gulf Coast's coach.
The Star Tribune had an interesting take on this - presumably, this was posted mere hours before the official word, given the timestamp.
I suppose someone could make the argument that Smith was only 26-42 in the conference overall despite a very decent 124-81 overall record in a school that is not exactly a destination and doesn't have state-of-the-art facilities for basketball. I imagine that the vision that Teague has involves a Minnesota team that does not fall off the face of the Earth in February. That part I get.
That being said, however, considering the competitive disadvantage that Minnesota seems to have in the location / facilities department when compared to its conference colleagues, this may not be the smartest move for them to make in the absence of other things.
On the other hand, if there is a plan to revitalize the program and its infrastructure, then this move is probably a logical part of that (still seems premature to do this now, unless it is a well-formed plan presently being executed, of course).
It's an expensive move for Minnesota too - I think Smith's buyout is over $2 million on the contract extension he signed last summer, and you're looking at names that won't be cheap if you're Norwood Teague and want to advance past the Round Of 32 and be competitive in the conference and do nothing else.
Tubby Smith seems to have fought an uphill battle to get players like Mbakwe and Williams to even consider Minnesota. Granted, Tubby wasn't the best at maximizing talent (or keeping it on campus, for that matter), but I would hope that they have more in mind than just replacing Tubby.
As the CBS entry notes, Flip Saunders is available as always.
If your buyout number is right that makes the move even worse. Why make this move now? Who exactly do they think is coming to Minnesota?
With a buyout like that they won't exactly be shelling out cash dollah for the replacement unless they are fine with being in the red.
couple of points here:
1) the startribune article referenced above is written by a sportswriter that is completely irrelevant and clueless. i think he is 95 and completely out of touch.
2) players do not improve under tuby.
3) he consistently throws players under the bus, which has lead to a handful of key transfers
4) MN's AD hired Shaka Smart at VCU. This is not to say that he will be able to lure him to MN, but the background of it is more interesting. MN assistant AD runs Villa 7. It is annual conference that puts ADs together with the top young assistants int eh country. They formally ran this at VCU, but have moved it to MN now. It has been repsonsible for the hiring of some ofthe best young coaches in the country. look it up. this seems to be the route that they will take. hire a young up-and-comer and give him the keys to build a program, instead of simply giving a tired old coach another coupole of years
5) MN high schools have some of the top prospects in the country right now (#9 and 40 in 2013 i believe and #2 overall in 2014), and generally produce some very good talent, althought they have troubles keeping it in state. they need a good recruiter to keep these kids in state. If they are able to do this, the Barn is a serious homecourt advantage, and thhey should be able to create a sustainable winner.
6) for those who say the gophers were nothign before tubby, that is a pretty short-sighted view. the gophs under Clem Haskins were a very good program. things were terrible after the scandal which caused him to be fired. it was pretty similar to the ellerbe/amaker years. not prettty and most gopher fans have tried to forget them. They actually hired Monson from Gonzaga after he lead that program to its firsxt success. bottom line though, i think the university thinks this is the major sport where they can really make a name for themsleves (other than hockey)
sorry, long and rambling, but thought it was interesting as i am a wolverine but live in the twin cities and likely have a different perspective than most of the readers of this blog.
(also, i don't know how to spell check and don't care to read back over this to check for grammatical issues, so deal with it.)
Bad move by Minnesota, but those substitution patterns are completely insane.
Huh the second coaching fire that I haven't seen the reason for in the last week.
Who's the other one? If it's Ben Howland you should dig a little deeper. That guy was done before the season even started.
I, for one, am not surprised by this. I was expecting it. The last few years they have started so well and then just collapsed in the second half of the season. They are mediocre at best, and you will have a hard time comvincing anyone to accept being mediocre.
The secret to success is continuity. If it ain't broke, and you fix it, you didn't fix it. You broke it,
WAS BROKE! Minnesota sucked this year. They finished ninth in the conference. This is bizarre. I cannot figure out these reactions. They were supposed to be good. They sucked. Why is everybody surpirsed about this. I thought this was foregone conclusion.
They did make the field of 64 as an at large which means they were considered one of the top 37 teams in the country. Probably not officially the definition of "suck".
I said this above but I'll say it again - take a look at Minnesota's record the handful of years before Tubby got there and you'll see why so many of us are surprised by this.
You obviously mean his overall record. At Minnesota, he consistently did very well in December, out of conference. But in conference play, he never posted a winning season. That's what got him fired. IIRC, his conference record was virtually identical to Dan Monson's.
Dan Monson, Smith's predecessor, had two winning Big Ten seasons. Smith had none. Smith's B1G was a couple of games better than Monson's, but only because Monson's first couple of years were a disaster (when Minn was going through NCAA sanctions).
The secret to success is continuity.
Since when? We fired Amaker before we hired Beilein. Kentucky fired Billy Gillispie before it hired Calipari. OSU fired Jim O'Brien before it hired Matta. UNC fired Matt Doherty before it hired Williams. IU fired Sampson before it hired Crean. And so on.
What matters is having the right coach for your program. How you get that coach is irrelevant.
Unless he was "seeing" a coed or went Bobby Knight on some player, then this was a bad decision. It's Minnesota, people, Brad Stevens (or Jon Gruden) isn't coming.
This is Glen Mason 2.0.
A lot of Gopher fans have been hoping the axe would come this year. We really struggled at the end of the season, and it seemed we had no idea how to attack a zone defense or successfully inbound the basketball on the baseline.
Tubby has not done a great job at keeping or developing talent.
Justin Cobbs (Cal's leading assist man and second leading scorer this year) - transfer
Colton Iverson (Colorado State's leading scorer and rebounder) - transfer
Royce White - transfer
Rodney Williams - came in a 5* athlete, will leave as a a 5*athlete
To those who say that they should realize they are Minnesota, besides sounding incredibly arrogant, it ignores the talent that Minnesota high school basketball has produced recently. Tubby didn't offer in-state players like Nate Wolters (SDSU), Mike Bruesewitz (Wisconsin), Trent Lockett (Marquette), and it was looking like next year he was going to miss on 2 5* in-state players, Tyus Jones and Rashad Vaughn, as well as an in-state 4*, Reid Travis. I understand that some of these players don't fit his system, but to say he recruited well is not entirely accurate.
We don't have many young guys on the team to give us reason to think the future is bright with Tubby. I think it was the right move, and really hope we come up with a good replacement.
To be fair on Wolters, he was not rated very high at all coming out of high school and only had interest from every school in the Dakota's, Cal Poly and Colorado state. Sometimes good ones slip by everybody.
what does Minny epect? to win national championships? they did the same dumbass move for football when they fired Mason.
This smacks of the Glen Mason firing. They thought they could do better than perennial bowl team, and turned themselves into a cellar dweller.
They will look back at the Tubby Smith era with wistful longing.
Everyone calling this shocking is also coming from the same group of fans who decided it was time to move on from Lloyd Carr. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, it was time to move on. What happened afterwards is a whole other discussion. But to think like an AD's mindset and look at purely the decision itself, if a program wants to be elite should it settle for above average or good? It took us a while to get (back) to where we wanted to be, but perhaps this is similarly Minnesota's time to roll the dice.
I agree the move seems short sighted now. But I can also see the viewpoint of needing to take a chance to move forward. I assume Tubby will find another job quickly because he's certainly no bum.
Anyone who does their job and is happy with "good enough" probably shouldn't be doing their job anymore anyways, so everyone who is saying Minny should just be happy sounds pretty elitist and condescending.
There were an awful lot of Michigan fans who weren't on the "push Carr out" bandwagon. Your claim of hypocrisy is a little ridiculous.
I assume there are an awful lot of Minnesota fans who aren't on the "push Tubby out" bandwagon either. The comparison was a stretch but I was trying to make a point that sometimes us Michigan fans are a little quick to judge others.
The larger point is that there is a bit of a double standard in that GM's or AD's are criticized when a coach or player withers before our eyes because they've held on to them too long; then the same criticism happens when they try to be ahead of the curve and part ways too early attempting to jump the gun. The general retention philosphy in coaching in general is completely absurd and as I alluded to I'm not really in favor of this move either (ie. having only 2 or 3 years to "turn it around"). But I don't think Minnesota should be blamed for trying to be better than medicore...
To some extent I think you might be confusing a "double standard" with a diversity of views within a fanbase. Some Michigan fans wanted Denard at QB and others wanted Devin. Although the coaches would disappoint some people no matter what they did, that doesn't mean that the fanbase was hypocritical or incoherent. People just have different views from one another.
I see your point. Certainly your example is not a double standard. I'm assuming here that the people who are outspoken in either case (firing a coach/player too early vs. too late) are the same people. In other words, one can't argue so strongly for showing a coach or player loyalty and giving them the benefit of the doubt by keeping them too long while at the same time showing disdain if after an extension they then underperform. It becomes revisionist. In any case those don't tend to be the more reflective people anyways, and probably doesn't represent most of the people on MGoBlog.
I suppose this is now pretty far off topic. I think it's good practice to self-evaluate every once in a while though, and I feel like sometimes it's as if we never learned anything from the whole Carr-Rodriguez-Hoke transitions in terms of philosophy towards coach firings/hirings.
Of course, if Minnesota was an elite blueblood of college basketball, no one would be shocked by the firing. It's one thing for Michigan football to be discontent with middling success, but entirely another for Minnesota, a mid-tier college basketball program at best.
Just remember that Michigan was not (maybe even is not yet, although we're certainly on the rise) considered part of the elite blueblood of college basketball either (historically, MSU and Indiana as far as Big Ten goes). In fact, Minnesota's arc is not necessarily all that much different than our's. They had their only recent success before the past few years wiped out by sanctions in the late '90's only to recently start to regain some prominance. I don't know enough about Minnesota to know if this is a good firing but if I remember there were people who thought Beilien was not the answer after Ohio last year (a ridiculous assertion even at the time, mostly recognized as such by the people here).
I guess, as some people have pointed out, the question is whether this is an Amaker fork for Minnesota or a Beilien fork?
I was comparing Michigan FOOTBALL to Minny basketball, since you were using the Lloyd complaints as the analogy. Obviously, I think Michigan football has reason to have higher expectations than Minny basketball, which is why I think it was reasonable for people to think it was time for Lloyd to go, even though he had pretty good success. Michigan football has extremely high standards; I don't think Minny basketball is at that level.
But I agree that our arcs are about the same basketball-wise. If we had hired Tubby rather than Beilein and we had the same level of success that Minny has had, I would be upset if we fired him, both because the next coach is not likely to be much better and because it sets a horrible precedent that if you're not wildly successful, you have to be constantly looking over your shoulder.
You know who decided it was time to move on from Lloyd Carr?
That's an essential distinction--so essential that I'm struggling to imagine some parallel that could survive it. What is it about Tubby/Minnesota that reminds you of Lloyd Carr's retirement?
Yes clearly the football analogy was a stretch, just trying to find an example that wasn't Beilien related.
I just find it frustrating that sometimes Michigan fans fall into our own stereotype of looking down our noses at other programs. Some of it is good natured obviously, but some of it isn't, and it's the attitude that "Minny is Minny" that is kind of annoying.
People have been saying that about our basketball program for the past two decades until Beilien finally turned it around.
Rumor going around that they already have a verbal commitment from a coach:
Once again, it is just a rumor that a new coach has already verbally accepted, but my source has been dead on.
The Minn AD did hire Shaka Smart at VCU, but I doubt they can pull him there.
This was my first thought when I read the headline, although for their sake, I hope they have a signed contract, not just a verbal agreement.
Something, something, Glen Mason comparison.
can we get "Glen Mason's Wife" to chime in on this discussion?
They should throw a dump truck of money at FGCU's Andy Enfield (who's a millionare, unfortunately for them) and see if he bites
They should also target La Salle and Wichita State's coaches.
Already got a plan in place or they wouldn't have fired Tubbs. I bet it's Wichita state's coach.
But gopherfan and others have convinced me that Tubby achieved less than Mason did.
FLASH - Minnesota it's time to face the facts. You have been and will be an also ran in football and basketball NO MATTER who your coach is. Accept ANY coach that gives you a winning record and a chance to play in a bowl or basketball tourney. You do NOT have and likely NEVER will have the athletes to compete year in and year out in the B!G .... dumb asses.
This is crazy to me. UCLA fires their coach after a conference championship and multiple final fours and now Minny fires tubby after a tourney win. This seems really stupid to me.
Wouldn't that be something if they switched coaches!
I don't get the prevailing mentality on this site that this is a bad idea.
Honestly, I agree with it. Look, Minnesota has every right to shoot for the most competitive coach that they can get. Minny has been nothing but mediocre under this guy - they had too much talent to taper off the way that they did.
As the Big 10 slowly turns into the SEC of basketball, it's put up all those Big 10 network dollars or shut up.
I agree strongly with this point.
No, Minnesota isn't the most successful program around, but having an attitude that they're "Minnesota" and they should "accept being Minnesota" is awful. That won't get you anywhere and I would never want to be a fan of a program with an attitude like that.
They were mediocre under Tubby and they felt with the talent coming out of the state that they could do better. Good for them.
Whether or not they will find a coach better than Tubby Smith I don't know, but I don't buy into the idea that they should kiss a guy's feet just because they haven't been god awful.
They need to call the 'Ole Miss football staff and find out the "secret" to their recruiting.
shocked, but not surprised. He's a really good coach who sucks at coaching. He's done great recruiting for the guys he's landed, but has completely failed with the guys he's missed on. His in game adjustments have been great when they win, but are horrible when they lose. He's either going to move up to a better school, or drop down a level.
Thanks for causing me to bring unneeded attention to myself in this cubicle farm...
for their fans sake i hope they have someone in mind that has mutual interest in the job
what a joke. you are who you are, minnesota.
Go and read the post by "gopherfan" up the thread.
People seem to forget that universities like Kansas, Indiana, Kentucky, Syracuse, Michigan State and UConn are good at college basketball. There's no reason Minnesota can't be good at basketball too. This arrogance has a place in college football, but it simply doesn't work in college basketball. Find a good coach, and you're the next Gonzaga, Arizona, etc..
I just want to write the words Glenn Mason again in case anyone here missed them.
The Gopher athletic department sets themselves up as the most delusional in all the nation.
I mean, they just got their own stadium in football a couple of years ago, and their basketball arena doesn't look like it's been updated since they built it. If those things can hurt a Michigan, it's game over for a program like that. Not the coach.
Same as always- if you have someone better to replace the guy you're getting rid of, great. If not, you're taking a crapshoot with your program.
Howland knew he was getting fired and had checked out.
Why is this surprising? Minnesota always stinks in Big 10 play and the Tournament and they have that academic cheating scandal going on right now...Pretty clear on why Smith was fired...
much of the time, despite having a few very good wins. But I agree the move is kind of dumb unless they have a good, up and coming coach lined up already. No one else is going to take the job given the lousy facilities and so-so record of the program over the least 15 years.
Someone will take the job. It's a Big Ten school. The key is find the guy with the right combination of talents. Smith was a really weird hire - an old coach who seemed to be past his prime. They need to find a young, hungry coach who's eager to prove himself.
I don't get the "they are who they are" argument. If you're Minnesota and you're terrible why would you just accept that. Oh, we won't expect great things because we have been bad. This is a defeatist attitude and I would be pissed if I was a fan of a program with that attitude.
Please remember you're Minnesota.
The other 49 states.
Tubby to UCLA? He would be a good fit. He is 61.
Howland to Minnesota?
Dance for them now?? As it's been said, who is Minny going to upgrade with? The barn has it's charm but it's an old, shitty building. Up and down year but had quality wins, made the tournament and won a game.
Jerry Kill has really raised the bar on how gopher-like a Minnesota coach can look. It's clear that Tubby just couldn't compete with that.
Wow what a STUPID move. They have NO basketball practice facility and the Barn is a piece of shit. I don't even think Tubby was a great coach, but unless they have Flip Saunders waiting in the wings, really bad move.
I don't understand this love of Tubby Smith. His teams have conintually gotten worse and players have either stayed still or regressed while playing for him. He continually makes terrible in game coaching decisions and has an insane substitution pattern that has cost Minnesota dearly this season.
Besides comparing this move to Mason for Brewster, why do people think this is bad? What has Tubby done in his 6 years at Minnesota to really impress people?
This is dumb.
However, if I am Minn or NW AD, I am hiring the FGCU coach before the tourney is over.
Minnasota is Minnasota for a reason, it's because they make mistakes like this.
I can see both sides of this. Minnesota looks poorly organized on O, can't deal with zones and faltered down the stretch against some teams that weren't that good. You don't have the sense that after 6 years the program is really on the rise like you do with us or Indiana etc. Several major players are graduating. New AD wants to hire his guy which apparently is Shaka but I am highly skeptical that Shaka wants this job. Sometimes if you are Minnesota you don't just want to be Minnesota.
On the other hand, eh, you're Minnesota. Someone in the comments above said it is arrogant to say that. Well, MN does not have great history, the facilities suck, and you are competing with M, IU, MSU, WI, OSU etc. You've not won a conference championship in 31 years. You've only been to the NCAAs 5 times prior to Tubby being hired (excluding the years forfeited due to sanctions). This is just not a great program or a particularly compelling job. It's probably the 9th best job in a 12 team league. Winning 21 games and making the 2nd round is fairly good. You are firing a coach with 500 wins to his name who took Tulsa to 2 Sweet 16s, took freaking Georgia to the Sweet 16, won a national championship at Kentucky, has won 7 conference championships, has gone to the tourney in 17 of the last 20 years and has won 20 games 17 of the last 18 years. You may do better but more likely than not you'll do worse. Pretty big risk. They better have someone special and/or a heaping pile of cash lined up.
You are firing a coach with 500 wins to his name who took Tulsa to 2 Sweet 16s, took freaking Georgia to the Sweet 16, won a national championship at Kentucky, has won 7 conference championships,
But it's been ages since he did those things. He was at Tulsa about 20 years ago, and won the title at UK 15 years ago. Firing him is a statement that he is no longer capable of achieving the things he once did (which I think is accurate).
Agreed, people acted like I was a jerk for suggesting that Dixon wasn't worth an extension at that point
Beilein didn't have more time. They were both hired in the 2007 offseason. Also, we went to two NCAA games in Beilein's second season.
Also, not sure why anyone would say Tubby is not a good coach. He is!
Tubby has won everywhere he has coached. He took Kentucky to the NCAA championship and three more elite eights. He took Minnesota to three NCAA tournaments in his short tenure. They had only previously made the NCAA tournament nine times. He won .600 of his games at Minnesota which is above the historic level.
I do hope this AD knows what he is doing. Love the fact that Michigan is apart of the "best conference in NCAA basketball."
Yeah, but you also have to look at his coaching trends, which typically aren't good. He has success, but as time goes on, it usually dries up. This was the best roster he had at Minnesota and he went below .500 in the Big Ten and only won 1 NCAA Tournament game. Also, let's not forget he inherited that championship roster from Pitino at Kentucky.
Apparently UCLA is also eyeing Shaka for their position.
I completely sympathize with this point of view, but it just isn't going to happen. Brad Stevens and Shaka are going to be long gone by that point. My predictions are Duke and UCLA, respectively
I'm not sold on Shaka Smart (and not just because of Saturday's game). I'm sure he'll get a huge payday from some school, but it would not surprise me if he struggled at a major school. He walked into a great situation at VCU. That program has been good since Jeff Capel was there.
The next head coach for the Michigan men's basketball program is going to be Bacari Alexander, via whatever small-time head coaching job he gets in the next season or two.
Or unless Bacari is tearing it up at a new job, I don't really see that as a way Brandon would go. At that point the program is probably humming and attractive to whoever the "new hotness" Stevens-Smart of tomorrow is. It'd be nice, but other than football, sorta, which sells itself, he hasn't really hired that way.
I think we'll find out sooner what way Brandon is thinking when he has to replace Red; that might give us some insight.
This is surprising news. I thought Minnesota had a pretty good year playing a tough schedule. I saw them as a B1G team on the rise.
According to The Ticket, Shaka Smart and Flip Saunders are in the running to replace Tubby.
in the Big Ten. This seems unfair for a lot of reasons but in todays times everyone thinks they should be winning like Duke and Kansas.
I'm just a fan of Smith. Is MN a fountain of talent? What am I missing? I guess Smart, should he come, will fill seats for a while. . .
MN does an awful job of firing and hiring coaches. I don't think MN put Tubby in a position to grow with their facilities. And the Jerry Kill hire for FB. There is just so much wrong with that hire.
List of some of the in-state talent that has escaped Tubby since he took over:
2008: Jared Berggren (Wisc); Jordan Taylor (Wisc)
2009: Mike Bruesewitz (Wisc); Trent Lockett (Arizona St.). Also Royce White ('09 Mr. Basketball) committed to Minnesota then transferred to Iowa St before ever playing for the Gophers. *Other lightly recruited players in this class include Ethan Wragge (Creighton) and Mike Muscala (Bucknell).
2010: Kevin Noreen (West Virginia, '10 Mr. Basketball)
2011: Shelby Moats (Vanderbilt); Ross Travis (Penn St.). Other than current Gopher Joe Coleman, there was nobody really of note that year.
2012: Mr. Basketball Siyani Chambers (Harvard) was only a 3* according to Scout. His other offers were CMU and Nebraska.
2013: Similar to 2012. 3* Riley Dearring is going to Wisconsin but his other offers were Drake, Illinois St. and Northeastern.
2014: Five-stars Tyus Jones and Rashad Vaughn are two of the top players in the country with offers from all the traditional powers.
Aside from a few players, Tubby really hasnt missed out on much talent because, well, there wasnt much talent to begin with, particularly 2010-2013.
I don't actually have any objective evidence for what I'm about to say, it's just an eyeball test, but I had a chance to watch a lot of Minnesota high school basketball a couple of winters ago and the general caliber of play was pretty poor by B1G footprint standards. I doubt there was a team in the state that would have been top 20 in Illinois. I'd been living in Chicago for a long time, and before and after that Cincinnati/Dayton, and MSP basketball was hard to watch.
I'm guessing it's because basketball is very much secondary to hockey as a winter sport at most Minnesota high schools. Games aren't well attended, there isn't much buzz around the sport, good athletes are being siphoned off at a young age to play something else.
Honestly it seems like it's about time. Face it, Tubby is a decent coach. Not good, decent. He had the nickname ''ten loss Tubby'' for a reason. I feel like if Minnesota could get the right coach they could become a program like Michigan.
We are a pretty schizophrenic community. We've been mocking this guy all season for being clueless on the sidelines, and then when the Minn AD comes to the same conclusion and fires him, we think it's a bad move?
I don't know who is the answer for Minnesota, but Smith was not the guy. He was basically their Amaker, only he managed to sneak into the tourney a couple times despite never posting a winning conference record.
Exactly. Does it really matter if you can beat msu and wisconsin one week but then turn around and lose to nebraska and northwestern? A shitty conference record is a shitty conference record.
I guess I'm not too shocked but I wonder if Minnesota would have the pull to lure away a up and coming coach that would make it worth it.
On paper Minnesota seemed talented, which is why a lot of people peged them as a sleeper in the big ten this year. But if you look deeper Mbakwe wasn't as productive as he was pre injury and couldn't play more than 20 minutes a game and they didn't have a true PG. Add to that Williams getting hurt off and on and they went on a skid in conference.
I was actually impressed with how they played in the tourney though. They crushed UCLA then ran into a Florida team that was making everything they threw up and getting rediculous help from the officials. They played at a high level, hung in there and kept making runs and cut it down to 6 or 8 points before Andre Hollins then Mbakwe both had to sit with 4 fouls.
to use your piles of BTN cash to actually make a step-change improvement. Go hire Shaka or Gonzaga's coach or especially FGCU's coach. Florida Gulf Coast is not going to hold onto him for long and you have lots of $$$$
Because hiring Gonzaga's coach worked out so well for them last time.
I'll admit I didn't know they'd done that before
Just go hire Shaka so you (Minnesota) can be better and we can continue to make you look foolish whenever we play
14 years ago, coming off of a huge scandal...
Honestly, this was shocking to me. Is Minnesota still chasing that 97 dragon? If they consistently make the tourney more than they miss it, and are at least competitive in conference play, shouldn't that be a home run for them? I really feel like this was a mistake. Tubby regularly brought in legitimate talent and was a solid coach.
Given the strenght this year in the B1G, Minnesota's record is nothing to be ashamed of. And while Shaka is a hot name, and rightly so, I'm not so sure he will fare any better than Tubby did. Sure he'll be able to recruit better athletes, but will they be able to compete with the big boys in the league?
I see why it's a good idea if they have a smart move in mind. Obvious point is obvious. Remember though, UConn has only been good in the last 20 years or so, Duke was largely built by Coach K, Syracuse is tied to Boeheim, etc. Basically, they aren't a bad basketball school now, and given the right move, they could step it up. Obviously, they won the tournament game this year, but then the argument is that they should have played to a better record overall, and gotten a better seed and better matchups.
tubby brought with him a ncaa tournament championship on his resume. to fire him without a a clear replacement in mind- poor move by AD.
minny has a fair program and should be as good as wisconsin but not consistently elite.
are the facilities, the university, community and state support consistent with winning at a high level?
michigan has ascended and has clear support of the coach, AD, elite facilities, university community and the state. the governour sitting courtside and getting kicked in the face by mcgary is not a coincidence.
Sad that he lost his job, but Minny obviously feels it should be better than the 5th or 6th-best team in the B1G. I don't know if they'll get a better recruiter than Tubby, but at the same time all of the talent he's brought in really hasn't amounted to much. He's never got beyond the second round of the tourney since he's been there, and at some point you have to wonder how much he has left in his tank. I know he won a title in 1997, but considering what he inherited from Pitino and how his last couple of Kentucky teams under-performed, it isn't like they are ditching Wooden here. The next hire is obviously essential to keeping the momentum going, even if it wasn't particularly inspiring.