Minnesota should be kissing Tubby's feet. Why would they fire him? Glen Mason anyone?
I thought that myself when I read that article that talked about a Data Scientist(tm)
Minnesota should be kissing Tubby's feet. Why would they fire him? Glen Mason anyone?
of Tim Brewster that will make people nostalgic for the glory days of Tubby?
As dumb as when they fired Glen Mason. 7 seasons later, the football team still hasn't recovered.
terrible decision. AD should just go ahead and fire himself
That move makes no sense, unless they already have someone lined up (if Shaka wouldn't leave VCU for Illinois, why would he leave for Minny). With NW canning Carmody, and now Minnesota firing Tubby, this seems to be the year of stupid Big Ten coaching moves for teams who for some reason think they can get someone better than who they already have.
Sparty gonna'....wait Minny gonna Minny.
Apparently the whole Glenn Mason episode didnt teach them anything about firing a steady as she goes coach...
That AD better get Shaka Smart.
Their AD and associate AD have something in mind. They did hire Shaka Smart at VCU and started the Villa 7, so it's not like they're incompetent at dealing with basketball coaches. This could get real interesting.
O/U on amount of Glen Mason mentions 20.
Just to be devil's advocate... Minnesota Basketball is not Minnesota Football. There are a ton of good basketball prospects that come out of the Twin Cities area. The fan base is also a lot more interested in basketball than football. I think it's a school where you can do well with a much higher upside than football.
I think Minnesota's biggest problem in sports is Wisconsin. When you see your neighbor doing so much with so little, it drives you crazy.
They have a lot more to lose than to gain with this. There's a reason Pitt extended Dixon, because they realized he might not be one of the best, but the odds of getting someone better were worse than of them getting someone worse. Indeed, Gken Mason'ed.
On the bright side, Smith will land on his feet, just like Illinois's coach. He's good enough a decent program will want him.
don't think he wants to coach anymore. I think this was more of a mutual parting of ways.
Do you have a reason for thinking that or is it just a gut feeling?
really did not appear invested in the team. He was always a very fierce competitor but I saw very little emotion out of him, win or lose. His interview were very surface and he really did not seem that invested. I think Minnesota could have been really good this year but I don't think they were coached up at all.
I would part with anyone mutually if they gave me 2.5 million
I think everyone is overrating Tubby a bit here. He had a nice run early at Kentucky but really tailed off team performance wise in his last few years there. At Minnesota in six years he has made the tournament just three times and made it out of the first round just once.
In his six years in the Big Ten he has never finished above .500 and only finished at .500 in two of those years, with 6th in the Big Ten his highest conference finish. His super talented team this year finished 8 and 10 in conference and tied for 7th.
I think it is easier to be succesful as a basketball coach then a football coach at Minnesota. While they may hire someone worse then Tubby, I believe they can certainly find someone better as well.
I just spent three months making fun of how terrible he is, so I don't think this is a bad move. Minnesota was, at worst, the fifth most talented team in the Big Ten this year. Adjust for Wisconsin bullshit and they should still finish better than 8-10 and getting to the second round because they drew an even worse coach than Tubby.
have a big name lined up...I think this is a bad move right now.
Not really surprising to me. They finished 9th in the B1G, only ahead of Nebraska, NW, PSU. They started out hot and failed down the stretch. They were terribly inconsistent, beating Wisconsin, then losing to Iowa, then beating Indiana, and losing to Nebraska. Last year, they were 1-7 in February, only beating Nebraska. The year before that, they finished the season 1-10, only beating Iowa. The two years before that, they made the tournament, but lost in the first round. It seems the only reason they had a win in the tournament during his tenure is that the opponent didn't have their starting PG for the game. If they are trying to build a program, getting a coach that can maximize the talent on that team could propel them out of mediocrity as soon as next year.
I'm not sure Smith qualifies as a good coach at this point in his career. He went 46-62 in B1G play.
I think this was the right move for Minnesota. Or at least, the first step to the right move. Tubby had 3 visits to the dance with Minnesota, only making it to the round of 32 once. The problem is, they are going to bring in someone who is no better than Tubby, most likely. There is not as much draw for big names like Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart ot leave their schools, especially to coach at Minnesota. If they can't make a big splash with their hire, I don't see them going to the dance again for 3-4 years.
How did they tell a Tubby the news?
(please take this computer from me now)
not sure about the decision to fire Tubby.
however, i am sure most of the people in this thread are probably related to Glen Mason.
No, we just like his hot wife.
Florida Gulf Coast's coach.
The Star Tribune had an interesting take on this - presumably, this was posted mere hours before the official word, given the timestamp.
I suppose someone could make the argument that Smith was only 26-42 in the conference overall despite a very decent 124-81 overall record in a school that is not exactly a destination and doesn't have state-of-the-art facilities for basketball. I imagine that the vision that Teague has involves a Minnesota team that does not fall off the face of the Earth in February. That part I get.
That being said, however, considering the competitive disadvantage that Minnesota seems to have in the location / facilities department when compared to its conference colleagues, this may not be the smartest move for them to make in the absence of other things.
On the other hand, if there is a plan to revitalize the program and its infrastructure, then this move is probably a logical part of that (still seems premature to do this now, unless it is a well-formed plan presently being executed, of course).
It's an expensive move for Minnesota too - I think Smith's buyout is over $2 million on the contract extension he signed last summer, and you're looking at names that won't be cheap if you're Norwood Teague and want to advance past the Round Of 32 and be competitive in the conference and do nothing else.
Tubby Smith seems to have fought an uphill battle to get players like Mbakwe and Williams to even consider Minnesota. Granted, Tubby wasn't the best at maximizing talent (or keeping it on campus, for that matter), but I would hope that they have more in mind than just replacing Tubby.
As the CBS entry notes, Flip Saunders is available as always.
If your buyout number is right that makes the move even worse. Why make this move now? Who exactly do they think is coming to Minnesota?
With a buyout like that they won't exactly be shelling out cash dollah for the replacement unless they are fine with being in the red.
couple of points here:
1) the startribune article referenced above is written by a sportswriter that is completely irrelevant and clueless. i think he is 95 and completely out of touch.
2) players do not improve under tuby.
3) he consistently throws players under the bus, which has lead to a handful of key transfers
4) MN's AD hired Shaka Smart at VCU. This is not to say that he will be able to lure him to MN, but the background of it is more interesting. MN assistant AD runs Villa 7. It is annual conference that puts ADs together with the top young assistants int eh country. They formally ran this at VCU, but have moved it to MN now. It has been repsonsible for the hiring of some ofthe best young coaches in the country. look it up. this seems to be the route that they will take. hire a young up-and-comer and give him the keys to build a program, instead of simply giving a tired old coach another coupole of years
5) MN high schools have some of the top prospects in the country right now (#9 and 40 in 2013 i believe and #2 overall in 2014), and generally produce some very good talent, althought they have troubles keeping it in state. they need a good recruiter to keep these kids in state. If they are able to do this, the Barn is a serious homecourt advantage, and thhey should be able to create a sustainable winner.
6) for those who say the gophers were nothign before tubby, that is a pretty short-sighted view. the gophs under Clem Haskins were a very good program. things were terrible after the scandal which caused him to be fired. it was pretty similar to the ellerbe/amaker years. not prettty and most gopher fans have tried to forget them. They actually hired Monson from Gonzaga after he lead that program to its firsxt success. bottom line though, i think the university thinks this is the major sport where they can really make a name for themsleves (other than hockey)
sorry, long and rambling, but thought it was interesting as i am a wolverine but live in the twin cities and likely have a different perspective than most of the readers of this blog.
(also, i don't know how to spell check and don't care to read back over this to check for grammatical issues, so deal with it.)
Bad move by Minnesota, but those substitution patterns are completely insane.
Huh the second coaching fire that I haven't seen the reason for in the last week.
Who's the other one? If it's Ben Howland you should dig a little deeper. That guy was done before the season even started.
I, for one, am not surprised by this. I was expecting it. The last few years they have started so well and then just collapsed in the second half of the season. They are mediocre at best, and you will have a hard time comvincing anyone to accept being mediocre.
The secret to success is continuity. If it ain't broke, and you fix it, you didn't fix it. You broke it,
WAS BROKE! Minnesota sucked this year. They finished ninth in the conference. This is bizarre. I cannot figure out these reactions. They were supposed to be good. They sucked. Why is everybody surpirsed about this. I thought this was foregone conclusion.
They did make the field of 64 as an at large which means they were considered one of the top 37 teams in the country. Probably not officially the definition of "suck".
I said this above but I'll say it again - take a look at Minnesota's record the handful of years before Tubby got there and you'll see why so many of us are surprised by this.
You obviously mean his overall record. At Minnesota, he consistently did very well in December, out of conference. But in conference play, he never posted a winning season. That's what got him fired. IIRC, his conference record was virtually identical to Dan Monson's.
Dan Monson, Smith's predecessor, had two winning Big Ten seasons. Smith had none. Smith's B1G was a couple of games better than Monson's, but only because Monson's first couple of years were a disaster (when Minn was going through NCAA sanctions).
The secret to success is continuity.
Since when? We fired Amaker before we hired Beilein. Kentucky fired Billy Gillispie before it hired Calipari. OSU fired Jim O'Brien before it hired Matta. UNC fired Matt Doherty before it hired Williams. IU fired Sampson before it hired Crean. And so on.
What matters is having the right coach for your program. How you get that coach is irrelevant.
Unless he was "seeing" a coed or went Bobby Knight on some player, then this was a bad decision. It's Minnesota, people, Brad Stevens (or Jon Gruden) isn't coming.
This is Glen Mason 2.0.
A lot of Gopher fans have been hoping the axe would come this year. We really struggled at the end of the season, and it seemed we had no idea how to attack a zone defense or successfully inbound the basketball on the baseline.
Tubby has not done a great job at keeping or developing talent.
Justin Cobbs (Cal's leading assist man and second leading scorer this year) - transfer
Colton Iverson (Colorado State's leading scorer and rebounder) - transfer
Royce White - transfer
Rodney Williams - came in a 5* athlete, will leave as a a 5*athlete
To those who say that they should realize they are Minnesota, besides sounding incredibly arrogant, it ignores the talent that Minnesota high school basketball has produced recently. Tubby didn't offer in-state players like Nate Wolters (SDSU), Mike Bruesewitz (Wisconsin), Trent Lockett (Marquette), and it was looking like next year he was going to miss on 2 5* in-state players, Tyus Jones and Rashad Vaughn, as well as an in-state 4*, Reid Travis. I understand that some of these players don't fit his system, but to say he recruited well is not entirely accurate.
We don't have many young guys on the team to give us reason to think the future is bright with Tubby. I think it was the right move, and really hope we come up with a good replacement.
To be fair on Wolters, he was not rated very high at all coming out of high school and only had interest from every school in the Dakota's, Cal Poly and Colorado state. Sometimes good ones slip by everybody.
what does Minny epect? to win national championships? they did the same dumbass move for football when they fired Mason.
This smacks of the Glen Mason firing. They thought they could do better than perennial bowl team, and turned themselves into a cellar dweller.
They will look back at the Tubby Smith era with wistful longing.
Everyone calling this shocking is also coming from the same group of fans who decided it was time to move on from Lloyd Carr. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, it was time to move on. What happened afterwards is a whole other discussion. But to think like an AD's mindset and look at purely the decision itself, if a program wants to be elite should it settle for above average or good? It took us a while to get (back) to where we wanted to be, but perhaps this is similarly Minnesota's time to roll the dice.
I agree the move seems short sighted now. But I can also see the viewpoint of needing to take a chance to move forward. I assume Tubby will find another job quickly because he's certainly no bum.
Anyone who does their job and is happy with "good enough" probably shouldn't be doing their job anymore anyways, so everyone who is saying Minny should just be happy sounds pretty elitist and condescending.
There were an awful lot of Michigan fans who weren't on the "push Carr out" bandwagon. Your claim of hypocrisy is a little ridiculous.
I assume there are an awful lot of Minnesota fans who aren't on the "push Tubby out" bandwagon either. The comparison was a stretch but I was trying to make a point that sometimes us Michigan fans are a little quick to judge others.
The larger point is that there is a bit of a double standard in that GM's or AD's are criticized when a coach or player withers before our eyes because they've held on to them too long; then the same criticism happens when they try to be ahead of the curve and part ways too early attempting to jump the gun. The general retention philosphy in coaching in general is completely absurd and as I alluded to I'm not really in favor of this move either (ie. having only 2 or 3 years to "turn it around"). But I don't think Minnesota should be blamed for trying to be better than medicore...
To some extent I think you might be confusing a "double standard" with a diversity of views within a fanbase. Some Michigan fans wanted Denard at QB and others wanted Devin. Although the coaches would disappoint some people no matter what they did, that doesn't mean that the fanbase was hypocritical or incoherent. People just have different views from one another.
I see your point. Certainly your example is not a double standard. I'm assuming here that the people who are outspoken in either case (firing a coach/player too early vs. too late) are the same people. In other words, one can't argue so strongly for showing a coach or player loyalty and giving them the benefit of the doubt by keeping them too long while at the same time showing disdain if after an extension they then underperform. It becomes revisionist. In any case those don't tend to be the more reflective people anyways, and probably doesn't represent most of the people on MGoBlog.
I suppose this is now pretty far off topic. I think it's good practice to self-evaluate every once in a while though, and I feel like sometimes it's as if we never learned anything from the whole Carr-Rodriguez-Hoke transitions in terms of philosophy towards coach firings/hirings.
Of course, if Minnesota was an elite blueblood of college basketball, no one would be shocked by the firing. It's one thing for Michigan football to be discontent with middling success, but entirely another for Minnesota, a mid-tier college basketball program at best.