Wouldn't want to live there either, I guess!?
Trey Burke Update
I log in this morning to see this negged. Good Lord. Get over yourselves people, I was a making light of a shi**y situation. Does anyone really want to live in a dorm?!
I think it's past the deadline to get a "W" for his classes. Man, his GPA is going to take a major hit!
Psh. My dorm room looked the exact same. Garbage bags full of Jimmy johns wrappers, bed toppled over to god knows where. Kid probably was just breaking in his fake ID. Right? RIGHT?????!!
Man, why can't the B-Ball program catch a break, it would've been perfect to have him stay another year and then have Walton take over afterwards.
Also, 20-35 seems kinda high and bogus to me, remains to be seen. I just wonder if Trey and Sullinger always planned on being in the same draft or something.
long lasting, apparently. For every step forward the program takes, it takes 3/4 of a step back.
I agree with the 20-35 thing but, and I'll probably get flamed for this, I don't even know if Trey really likes Michigan all that much. I mean, he was an Ohio State fan for his whole life, his best friend plays at OSU, and he didn't have an offer from them in the end. He went to the school that gave him a chance for exposure and an opportunity to play, but in the end I don't know if his heart was at Michigan or not. I'm just speculating and I could be 100% wrong as I haven't heard anything either way but leaving so soon with poor expectations on getting drafted makes it seem that something more is there than just wanting to play in the NBA.
Well htis hurts also I was not expecting him to leave so soon but he earned his right to try his hand at the next level. He accomplished alot in a Michigan uniform including bringing us that elusive B1G championship so I thanks him for that and wish him well going forward. I am a Trey Burke fan for life!
To put it lightly.
Well said, friend
Dominate is a verb, yo.
Dominate is a verb, yo.
Example, I'm gonna dominate your face
I guess some players just can't resist the call of the D league.
Ballin on a budget
can't wait to see D. Morris as a Mad Ant !
Yea Fort Wayne!
You can't blame Trey for making a solid decision when he is projected to be a first round pick. This year last time he was a 3 star to most services and has skyrocketed into a most likely first round pick. NBA scouts are really good at what they do, and if he stays and has a similar year or two they are going to see so many more parts of his game that they can pick apart. He is leaving at the best time for Trey Burke, obviously not the best time for the University of Michigan.
The frustration should come from Darius Morris leaving when he should not have, and it was obvious that he was not currently an NBA talent. He had specific things that he could work on going into his junior year. Trey does not have those things. If you watch his game, he is as complete a point guard as there is outside of Kendall Marshall.
Show me a mock draft where he gets drafted let alone go in the first round. He's a 5'11 pg with average athleticism. He had a great college season but he's not close to ready yet. I wish him the best but he's making a huge mistake.
Sorry I haven't checked in a few days but he is making a much worse decision then Darius last yr. Morris saw a weak draft class and saw an opportunity. This draft is loaded and I just dont think Burke will look that good in predraft workouts. He's short and he doesn't play much defense and he's not super quick. Staying with beilein for another yr or two will help make him a for sure 1st round pick instead of a second round pick. The NBA doesn't do the bet job of developing skills. The D-league should not be treys goal. I hope im wrong about him tho
You can't argue against any kid who is projected as a sure-fire first round pick. For many their financial situations are dire and it probably has been a life-long dream of theirs to make it to the NBA. With that being said I just don't get this one at all, still has a lot to improve and if he made the right adjustments as a player he would be a first round pick with a guaranteed contract.
the end of his evaluation is in the second round and we still don't have a complete list of who is coming out early which could push down even further. I know the range for D leaguers used to be 24-32k. I can't imagine giving up a free Michigan degree to make that type of money. The decision is Trey's to make I just hope he ends up happy.
Sadly...it is. Yuk!!
You're kidding right? He never said anything about the quality of play in the NBA as to why it's unwatchable. I don't think even the biggest hater of the NBA thinks they quality and skill of the players isn't greater than that of college. The NBA is unwatchable because it's boring... Nobody gives two shits until the 4th quarter, they hardly play any defense and unless it's a big game every one just walks up and down the court unless they have a cherry picking opportunity.
Losing a game in college matters - losing a game in the NBA really doesn't mean squat until the playoffs.
I hate this argument so hard. Did you watch the Heat v. Thunder game last night? If not, please find a recording of it, watch it, and then come back and report on what you saw.
The NBA sucks when it's the Wizards v. Bobcats, sure. But CBB also sucks when it's Nebraska v. Penn State. The only difference is that there are moments of quality basketball in the former game.
I agree that early entry into the NBA has hurt college basketball, but that's a totally different argument from the one that says the NBA isn't entertaining.
i think that would qualify as a "big game", per his post. and college bball is much more of a "team" sport on both ends of the court.
how many charges do you see in the NBA? almost none, because team defense in the nba is almost a myth. it's all about isolation one-on-one for the star player on the team. then ole defense in the paint so no one gets hurt.
no one will disagree that there is more talent in the nba, but yes, it is much less a "team" game.
Less charges? This may result because you can't sag off your man as much. Why? Because the players are better and take advantage of the littlest space you give them. Other reasons: more zone defense in college, no defensive three seconds in college, better offensive players, etc.
NBA offenses aren't about isolation. They are about spacing, taking advantage of matchups, taking advantage of defensive mistakes, and creating the smallest window of opportunity. This is because the players are too big, quick, long, and strong to run the same things against them offensively that you can in college. This is very similar to comparing college football to the NFL.
The defense is fantastic in the NBA.
Do you live in a magical hell where the Wizards and Warriors play each other on an infinite loop or something?
I prefer any college football game to NFL games (outside of the Lions). I prefer any college basketball game to NBA games (outside of the Pistons). Some people like college sports better. There's nothing wrong with that. I like college athletics more because the atmosphere's are better and there are less fairweather fans for college teams from my experience. Nothing wrong with liking pro sports better either. But there is nothing inherently better about either level of competition. Don't be ignorant.
I would love to see the NBA cut out a few teams and downsize..I think that would increase the level of play sooo much
1. The defense in the NBA is ridiculous. It is completely different than any other form of basketball because of the ability and athleticism of the athletes. You can't compare it to college. There is a reason that you can't run the same stuff offensively in college that you can in the NBA (very similar to not being able to run the spread in the NFL).
2. Losing some regular season game only matters in football. So don't use this argument....and it doesn't matter for 95% of college basketball teams. If Kentucky would have lost at Florida this year they still would have been the #1 overall seed and they still would have won the national championship.
I've always thought it would be interesting to collect and break down the demographics of those who watch college basketball but not the NBA, and vice versa. I think there probably would be a racial divide there.
It's one of the things that has always fascinated me about the college versus the NBA discussion.
As someone who really likes the NBA, I find that people that STRONGLY dislike it haven't watched a game in at least 5 years. On this board, I'd wager that those that hate it haven't watched since LeBron bombed the Pistons out of the playoffs in that absurd 4th quarter
I really wish the NBA had a 3-year rule like the NFL. While I still wouldn't watch the NBA, it would make college basketball SO much better.
me a while to get to this point, but I think the 1 year rule is really degrading the college game. Kentucky winning the National Championship was hollow, it just does not resonate as something that was "worked for" and "fought for." I say eliminate the rule and let players go straight to the league if that is what they are planning to do after one year. Yes, college basketball would become a lot like college baseball, but at least you could develop a familiarity with a roster. I am fine with more of Zach Novak and Stu Douglas. I am pretty much over the Trey Burkes of the world. Good luck to him, he seems like a good kid, but I am just over that entire song and dance.
In my opinion, the NBA should adopt a role similar to MLB.
You can enter the draft after HS, and if you don't like your drafting spot, you can withdraw and go to college. But if you do, you can't enter the draft for 3 years.
This would also mean, in my opinion, making the NBDL a true minor league, and not depending on the NCAA to do it.
the one and done rule is the worst of all worlds and is just a ridiculous charade. At most the one and doners have to put in 1 semester of work. What is the point of that? If they are good enough to go pro after high school then go. If not then they should stay in college for at least 2, if not 3 years.
I've heard this idea propsed a few times and I think it's pretty sound.
I'd be more in favor of something akin to what Bill Simmons proposed a few years back. IIRC it was something along the lines of creating a draft advisory board, made up of NBA GMs, coaches, and former players.
The goal is to have each kid go to college for three years, but kids can petition the draft advisory board to determine whether or not they may be permitted to enter the draft before the mandatory three years are completed. The draft board either gives them a yes, meaning they can enter the draft early, or a no, meaning they have to return to school and can petition the next year.
The basic idea behind it is to protect a lot of the kids from themselves, agents, and/or handlers, while making exceptions for those special instances where a kid is so good they don't need to go to college. So someone like LeBron could petition the board fresh out of high school and get a pass, meaning he'd go straight into the draft, while someone like DeSanga Diop would have been told to go to college and work on his game.
It's the best proposal I've heard that allows the college game to flourish, while also making exceptions for those who don't necessarily need to play college ball (or more than one year of college ball).
I'd rather see the NBA go to the NHL model with everyone being eligible, and being drafted has nothing to do with signing, or to the MLB model. I'm not as familiar with their rules, but I believe there is no opting in out of high school, and before freshman year you either sign with the club or enroll in college and revoke your draft eligibility until after your junior year.
Either of those would make the college game a lot better, IMO, for all the same reasons we love college football. It would also help protect the Morris/Burke types as well.
I am sad. We love you Trey please don't go Trey
anyone else think it's creepy that his dorm room is now all over twitter?
That's what I was thinking. Why would he let someone take a pic of his dorm ?
is a great thing but can lead to a very creepy world. It will be interesting to see how society manages it, let's hope for the best.
No matter what you think of his decision, he deserves his right to privacy. Taking pictures of the kid's room and posting on the internet is pretty wrong.
Best of luck to Trey. I'll be rooting for him wherever he goes.
How do we know that's really his room?
never trust any news from someone with less than 150 followers
The original picture was posted by the a basketball writer for the Michigan Daily. The source is legitimate; whether or not that is treys room and stuff is tbd
I lived in south but I had a couple good buddies over in west.... and a couple good nights over there too...
I don't care how cheesy it sounds but my four years at michigan were probably my favorite four years of my life... I like having kids and a family sure enough, but boy was college fun...
Yeah, I'm sure he would be a perennial all star in the NBA if he would have just stayed one more year in school and got those extra 30 games under his belt.
If he had pushed himself into the first round with another year (a virtual lock IMO), he would get a guaranteed 3-year ~$3 million+ contract. He lost at least $1.5 million leaving a year early.
I think his ceiling would have been in the top 15, so it's probably more like $2.5 million he lost, just for the chance to let the NBA chew him up and spit him out a year too early.
this is what everyone (especially trey and his family) need to realize. the key is getting drafted as high as possible in round 1; with a high-paying guaranteed contract. drop to round 2 and you lose big. trey has a much better shot at the big $ next year.
we went through the same thing the past 2 years with harris and Dmo. those guys have lost out on potential millions. i think both of those would have been first-rounders had they stayed one more year. sometimes these kids and their advisors can't see the forest through the trees.
There is also the possibility that Trey is striking while the iron is hot.
Maybe he sees that with all of the talent we are bringing next year, it will be difficult to improve upon the type of season he's had this year, so he's taking the leap now while he still can.
What happens if Trey stays, and Mitch McGary and GRIII are legit one and dones? I'm going to go out of a limb and say that those guys getting the majority of the attention, shots, and hype, would be detrimental to Trey's draft stock.
In last year's draft, Kyrie Irving and Brandon Knight both went top 8 on Duke and Kentucky teams that had plenty of talented players on both rosters, check the draft board. I would think being a PG that Burke would want scorers to dish the rock to and grinders like McGary to snag boards and kick it back out so he can run his sets or start the break. He can average 13-15 points as a PG with good assist to turnover ratio, ect. and still go in the lottery or close to it and get his guaranteed contract. Burke should give it another year in my opinion, but good luck to him regardless.
Those two player's situations are not analogous to Burke's.
Also, that's assuming a lot. He could just go pro now, get picked in the first round and be playing in the league next year.
Someone like Burke can't raise their stock much higher than it is right now. He doesn't have the athletic ceiling to allow for a big boost up any draft boards. No matter how he performs in college he will always be a late first round to early second round pick.
Therefore it might behoove him to go now, when he knows he'll get drated at around that position. Rather than waiting a year, and who knows what might happen.
You're right, he may not come close to those numbers next year or in the first round. IMHO, it would be beneficial to Burke to add a little muscle and physically develop another year. I think he would go higher next year, being more physically developed, and it would be a better overall financial decision to stay, even for just one more year. Just my opinion though. Everybody's situation is a unique case.
Or, you know, acknowledge that you are only 5' 11" and that maybe THREE more years in college and a college degree might just, you know, make life a little better after basketball.
The issue is not solely out after one year or two. It is whether you should leave early at all. There are way too many kids leaving early who either have no chance in the NBA or only a modest chance. (I think Trey Burke is the latter, but still he is not Magic, LeBron, etc.)
Virtually none of the guys who leave early are making the right decision. There are a few, sure, but only a few.
You mean a near-irrelevent Bachelors of General Studies degree that his Academic Advisor would have probably steered him towards. If the NBA doesn't work out, there are at least 10 professional leagues in the world that pay former college All-Americans 6 figures+.
My cousin spent a decade playing basketball in Korea and the money he made has basically set him up for life - he'll go the rest of his life after the age of 33 living pretty comfortably and never working very hard.
The world values college degrees. I don't care how much help he would get to obtain it, it wouldn't be irrelevant. (Whether some degrees should be considered irrelevant is another thing.)
Nice about your cousin. A lot of these guys who are marginal in pro sports blow the money they get. (Some of the stars do too, but they have to blow a heck of a lot more money before they go broke.) Then they need to sell insurance, which probably requires an "irrelevant" college degree.
It's a bad decision. People like you create a culture that encourages kids to make those bad decisions.
Making 6 figures for 10 years does not set you up for life. Plus, he had to live in Korea for a decade, which is fine for some, but not for others. It's a lot harder to meet your wife and raise your kids living in a different country. I'm not saying it can't be done, just saying that it's not the lifestyle that most people project for themselves.
It provides you with enough cash that, when properly utilized, can set you up.
For instance, it can give you the money to purchase a few restaurants and hire good people to run them for you.
Also, it did not mean he had to live in Korea for a decade, it meant that he had to live in Korea for 5 months a year a for a decade. It also meant that he didn't spend a penny on expenses for 5 months a year for a decade.
...you're saying that restaurants are a good investment?
I live in Korea and feel pretty good about myself whenever I count all the zeros on my paycheck. Then again, by that logic I'm paying nearly half a million every month for my Umich loan. Wish I were good enough at any sport to have played for free.
x100, would seem to me to be the whole story here.
Maybe TB loves basketball and despises school. Maybe he'd rather live in Korea or Lithuania or wherever, playing basketball, maybe he'd even rather take up a trade than have any of the careers getting a degree would open up for him. I don't have any idea what he loves and hates, what his life is like, what his goals are, and my guess is that 99% of the people here that think they know what his decision should be don't either. It's not some rational-choice exercise where you calculate the future expected cash flows of the various options. It's a life.
Korea doesn't sounds like such a bad place to find a wife.... ;-)
i have a BGS and am doing very well, imo. like most things, it's what you do with it.
I agree with most of this.
Most top college players aren't there to cash in on their degree. They're there to cash in on the NBA. Which is why it's so infuriating to see them blow millions in projected earnings on a gamble that they will be picked 20th and not 35th* when next year they will solidify their draft positioning.
And it's not just that. If you are picked low, you get fewer minutes and are cut more quickly, and are less likely to ride your rookie contract's coattails into a re-up. Most college players want to play professionally and set themselves up for life. All college players want that to happen in the NBA.
* or, you know, not picked in that range at all because the NBA draft evaluators have only been wrong when it comes to Michigan guards in the last 3 years
There are 345 Division I schools that have college basketball programs, with most schools having I think 13 scholarship players on the roster. Around 4485 players for 60 draft spots, with international players also taking up slots. I don't have to throw percentages out there for you to see that if that is the plan of college basketball players, they should strongly reconsider their life strategy. I didn't account for players going to play overseas because you said they are at college to cash in on the NBA. Even players that are ranked in the Rivals150 are not likely to be drafted and go to the NBA. I think you take it one step at a time and if the situation is right and you are lucky enough to be in the position that it makes sense to declare, then go for it. If not, look at the big picture and take the degree. Life is a marathon and not a sprint, and they should look at their situation as unique case every time and only declare if it makes sense depending on the million or so variables involved.
1. Trey Burke is a legitimate draft prospect. He's probably in the top 60 one year removed from high school. For people like him, a life strategy of making money playing basketball is absolutely a good idea and I don't understand how you can dispute that. It's just a matter of how he plays his cards.
2. His draftability isn't going anywhere. At most, 1% of players would hurt their draft stock by staying in school another year. At least 50% would improve it. This is why a true freshman projected in the late 1st/early 2nd should stay. A 1st round contract is that important.
1. It's really creepy that someone is taking pictures of his (alleged) dorm room and spreading it over the internet.
2. This doesn't really counter the last second change of heart rumor. Maybe he packed earlier yesterday then changed his mind?
I still do not have my hopes up, but people are way out of control with their stalking of Trey Burke.
I hate this argument. Is it such a bad thing that Trey has confidence he'll succeed? He can always come back to school. I hope he stays, but no one should begrudge a kid for taking his shot.
They never come back to school.
Juwan and Jalen disagree with you.
they actually had NBA CAREERS. The failures of the college kids that leave early FAR exceed the success stories. Every college team has at least one "star" ... what % of them actually have NBA careers ???? very , very few.
What ^ said, plus Shaq, Vince Carter, etc. And those are just the ones that are publicized. If they don't return to school, that's on them.
He has his whole future for the NBA, you only in college once.
*you're only in college once.
He's from the 'hood. He should go. Done.
Its a shame Michigan had to take him with no other options. Its on the coach.
possibly mean this to come across as offensive--and dull-witted--as it does. A fatal twofer.
How are you so sure he will be in the d league?
Because he is too short to play in the NBA.
I know many NBA teams do not have a lot of 5'10 or 5'11 guards, but there are some, right?
Ty Lawson is about 6'0", as is Mario Chalmers. Both start.
Lawson is significantly more athletic than Burke.
Chalmers isn't, but he shoots 40%+ from three and has a reputation as a good defender. I think Burke, given a year or two, can match that shooting. The defense, I'm not sure about.
Isaiah Thomas is having a very good rookie year, and he's shorter than Burke.
Kemba Walker is 6'1", and was a high pick, but again, I think he's significantly more athletic than Burke.
I'm sure there are others, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
If Sebastian Telfair can carve out an 8 year NBA career, then I'd say burke definitely has a shot. Both guys are lightning quick, undersized guards lacking in elite athleticism, and weak defensively. Telfair is faster, but Burke has a better shooting stroke.
Granted, teams generally give lottery picks more of an opportunity to hang around and catch on than they do late first, or second round picks.
Some of the big question marks facing Burke at the next level are:
Can he get his shot off over bigger, more athletic defenders?
Can he create his own shot over bigger, more athletic defenders?
Can he faciliate effectively, and run an NBA team for small stretches at a time?
Can he defend the myriad of big and/or uber athletic point guards like, Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Williams, Wall, Irving, etcetera, for the few minutes when he's on the floor, without getting absolutely torn to shreds?
I like listening to Sam Webb, but his gut feeling predictions are almost always wrong. When it was first made public that Burke was strongly considering the draft Sam almost immediately stated on his radio show that he would be shocked that Burke would go to the NBA. I don't understand why he would be shocked. If the kid is going to be a first round pick he'd be foolish to play another year and risk injury.
If this is a serious picture of his dorm room and he is packing it in early to head to the NBA it might be best. An education at just about any school is not cheap, but if he feels he played for U of M for free then he is a long way from being the mature young man who can handle the pressure of an adult world. There is most likely less than a month left to finish out the semester and get some education under his belt. To pack all his stuff up and head out without finishing the semester says a lot about his maturity and the way his parents raised him. It also says a lot about the way many high school kids feel about college and pro sports. Maybe they should take a long hard look at what the average length of a Pro Sports career is and what they plant to do afterward with a high school education.
*** I hope none of this is really him, but it is easy to see how kids gets taken advantage of when they have a talent that can mae money. Before you go off and tell me I don't know what I am talking about, I was a fortunate one who played for a Div. 1 Basketball team and made a choice to focus on my education because I knew that Pro Sports were a short lived thng and my chances were slim. ***
Good luck young man, you are going to need it and thanks for the fun year watching you grow.
To pack all his stuff up and head out without finishing the semester says a lot about his maturity and the way his parents raised him. It also says a lot about the way many high school kids feel about college and pro sports.
Not a popular statement to make, but I +1'd it.
I'm getting vocational training. The program lasts 4 years. It doesn't conclude with any kind of certificate but at least it's free. It's a general studies program however, so I spend a lot of term learning stuff irrelevant to my future job. People keep telling me this makes me 'well-rounded'.
Suddenly I'm told I'm likely to be hired by a company that is the best in my business. I'll get to continue my training on the job. I'll have extremely skilled co-workers to learn from. I'll get to completely focus on my tradecraft. I'll also make an extremely large amount of money.
If you're one of the majority "who go pro in something other than sports", sure, finish college. If you're headed for the pro leagues, well... where is the value in turning down hundreds of thousands (even millions) to finish? With one year at the rookie minimum, he could easily afford to head back to michigan for his degree.. he could stay for a couple masters even.
He has the potential to have an incredible season next year and shoot up the draft boards in a weaker draft, thus earning a more lucrative contract.
Unless his family seriously needs the money, this is a dumb decision. You shoot for a lottery pick. He's not even close.
Holy shit, people. "Our program can't catch any breaks." "Good luck in the D league." "Young...Immature...Bad decision...blah blah blah."
How about taking the time to appreciate the kid and what he's done. He's made a big decision about something he's dreamed about since he was young. If you don't like the decision, at least respect it. Don't rag on the kid just because you won't be able to talk a little extra shit to your coworkers this offseason. This kid owes you nothing and to some of the responses here, that's what you deserve.
I appreciate what he's done, but I also think he's making a poor decision. I don't see why one has to preclude my talking about the other. It's okay to criticize people you like.
It seems like the majority of people here are criticizing his decision, and I don't think anyone is saying not to. The problem is that others feel the need to criticize him personally. There's a big difference between the two: everyone makes bad choices at some point, that doesn't make him or her a bad person.
You really don't owe him anything? He lead this team to a co-B1G title. You at least owe him a thank you. If now is when he wants to take his shot at the league, so be it. It's his decision. It might have been Morris last year who was so disgusted at the Michigan fanbase for the way they turned on him when he announced.
The underlying theme for all commenters on this blog is that we love Michigan and want Michigan to be the best at everything. When something happens that negatively affects that, we will respond differently. Those that respond to this by telling Trey he is making a huge mistake are not "turning on him". They are probably concerned for both him and the Michigan program (maybe not in that order, if you are like me.)
The bottom line is that Trey is making a huge mistake. The only way he is not making a huge mistake is:
1). If he happened to get injured next year.
2). If he, himself feels that he played at his peak this year and has no chance to improve upon this year's performance.
Both of those are unlikely, so he is listening to some bad advice.
In the end this all may be moot, because he could turn out to be great whether he gets drafted or not. But if you are trying to use college to set yourself up for at least one guaranteed contract in the NBA, then this decision makes no sense.
How on earth can people be claiming that with the information we have now, that this is a mistake? I present a portion of a list of things we don't know that would be important to declaring this decision a mistake:
- Official draft grade (we have only rumors)
- Actual Draft position
- Length and success of his professional career
- Trey's desire or lack there of to play ball and take classes at the same time
- Trey's appreciation of the college life, that many of us loved, but experienced much differently than he did
- Trey's monetary sitch at the end of his ball career with respects to finishing his degree
- The accurate ability to quantify his growth as a hoops player in the NBA/D-league/Europe versus in college
I am sure there are many more that I am missing, but clearly there is no way to accurately declare this decision a mistake at this point. All that is is misplaced sadness at Trey leaving. I understand the sadness, because I am a sad panda too.
That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.
Thank you, Your Honor.
Back to my sad panda hole.
But you are saying we cannot declare this a mistake until after it has had years to prove itself out. If you are saying we shouldn't comment on it until we are 100% certain then that is always the case. But if we all waited for that, this board would be quite boring.
"The bottom line is that Trey is making a huge mistake. The only way he is not making a huge mistake is: ..."
Nobody's saying that you should never speculate about anything ever. The point is that these incredibly condescending claims about the certainty of Trey's error are completely bogus. Congrats to SteveInPhilly for producing the first intelligent thing written on these boards about Burke's likely departure.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but at what point is it in poor form to express it? It is kind of a philosophical question: should you voice an opinion if it has no basis on accurate facts? Is it OK to espress it if is presented as an opinion and not as fact? Does it not matter how you present it or if it has any factual basis because this is the interwebs fergodsakes, and baseless speculation (and porn) are the reason Al Gore invented this thing in the first place?
Personally, I think it is in bad taste to make claims that you can't back up. That is how climate change got turned into a debate, even though science and facts come down overwelmingly on one side of the discussion. Obviously Trey Burke's future is a topic of less consequence, but if people's opinions on his decision start to become accepted as fact and the tenor of the discussion becomes negatively judgemental towards Burke or his decision making, then that could negatively affect the program and school we love. Afterall, Morris felt that he was turned on, so I don't want Burke to feel the same way.
--sometimes with incredible, ridiculous heat--on a person who just brought Michigan its first B1G championship in yonks. When they are probably not in possession of half of the very large array of variables facing the young man at this time. . . Before it's even clear WHAT he has decided.
You expect more from Michigan people. . . you certainly don't always get it.
however, we have direct evidence from our own program the past two years.
1. harris and Dmo were better nba prospects heading into the draft. i don't care what these reports say. i've seen these guys play...a lot.
2. harris went undrafted. Dmo got drafted at the end of round 2 and had to make the team, which he barely did.
3. by not being drafted in round 1, they lost the potential for add'l millions.
so, in other words, you may come up with another 100 reasons to leave, i can come up with millions of better reasons to stay.
Morris was drafted in the first half of the 2nd round, not the end.
Morris is a better prospect by virtue of size, but not, in my opinion, his game. Point guards that can't make a jump-shot will always struggle terribly unless they possess the absurd athleticism of Rajon Rondo. We agree Morris is not Rajon Rondo, I assume. Harris also could not shoot. I'm unclear what the utility of a shooting guard that can't shoot is.
Burke can, in my opinion, become a credible outside shooter. If he does that, I think he'll have an easier time finding a role.
you say burke can become a credible outside shooter but harris and Dmo can't? don't understand the logic there. i would still take harris and Dmo over trey. harris was also a great free throw shooter and that often translates to becoming a good shooter overall.
as you stated in other posts, trey isn't getting any taller. i'm 100% sure of that. yet, i still think harris and Dmo have a better chance of improving their outside shot. and i think trey can improve his shot and polish his game by staying one more year, which will translate into a higher draft pick and a better chance at guaranteed money.
Burke is starting from a position of extreme superiority in his shooting skills.
He shot 36% from 3 in college. Morris shot 22.3%, and Harris shot 31.7%.
Shooting is something that generally improves through college. Burke started at 36%, which is above average. Harris was shooting 32% as a Junior, which is below average.
you kind of proved my point. if burke stays, he improves, so it's only logical that his draft status improves. if he were to shoot 40% from 3 and marginally improve in his other areas, he would almost guarantee himself a first round selection. right now, he's just a big question mark to GMs (or little question mark).
Those that respond to this by telling Trey he is making a huge mistake are not "turning on him". They are probably concerned for both him and the Michigan program (maybe not in that order, if you are like me.
Let's be real here, most of the people saying this care more about Michigan than Burke, and a smaller segment of them are extremely butt-hurt over the fact that Trey doing what he feels is best for him will hurt Michigan. They're only concerned when an athlete's desires match up with their own, and anything less sends them into a tizzy and is rendered UNACCEPTABLE.
Agreed. Maybe I have a cynical view of student athletes, but top end college basketball players are essentially majoring in basketball. If he wants to move with his career, then I cannot knock his decision. What he mostly gains by coming back is guarenteed playing time. His draft stock could just as easily go up as it could go down, and if he's really a borderline 1st rounder, I cannot see how anyone can say this is a horrible decision.
Herein lies the problem with this situation - speaking for those of use who say he is making a mistake. I define "top end" (in terms of players with NBA potential) as a first round draft pick because they get guaranteed contracts. So that "borderline" distinction you mention is a huge one. If Trey felt he would never be a first round draft pick and that he would have to prove his way into the league, then I have no problem with this decision (other than if that is the case he should also recognize that it might not work out and he might as well get a free eduaction first rather than have to pay for one later.)
But I think most of us feel as though he would be a first rounder at some point. So, for argument's sake, let's say Trey does a Darius Morris in this draft. And as some people have commented, he makes $400,000 next year. Then it may all end after one year, or he may make a lot less in the D-League. Contrast that to if Trey stays another year and gets drafted in the first round. Even if he is the last pick in the first round of next years draft he has a three year contract worth about $2.7 million dollars. The first two years are guaranteed at about $900,000 per and the team has options on a third and fourth year.
So, I go back to my thought process which is - this is a mistake unless Trey feels like even after another year or two or three he will not be a first rounder. That does not seem to mesh with his apparent confidence in himself. So he must be listening to people say that he is a first rounder this year. All the people who routinely rank this are saying he is not. If I had confidence in myself that I could improve and elevate my draft stock a little bit, I would stay, becuse in Trey's case, if he is "borderline" that marginal improvement make a huge financial difference. The difference between pick 31 and 30 is more important, in terms of financial security than the difference between pick 1 and 30. You really want to the team to have a multi year committment to you so you guarantee yourself a couple years to get acclimated and find your role
it's this simple math that many don't seem to get. if he were 7' tall like the kid from illinois, he would be a sure first round pick based on potential. at 5'11" i think a guy like trey has to be as polished as possible in order to maximize his draft status.
couple that with the several guys that stayed back this year, his draft status would most likely (almost assuradly) be higher next year, maximizing his chance of getting into round 1.
If Trey was deciding to be a 2nd round pick this year instead of a 1st round pick next year, you could make a decent case that he was making a mistake. But that is not the decision he is faced with. Instead he must decide to stay or go based on many variables and possible scenarios, most of which will not be definitively known for years. It is absurd to use this as the default scenario, thereby unequivocally declaring his decision to go a mistake.
It seems like you are not taking this personally, not at all.
Calm the eff down.
Why do we have to respect a decision that any reasonable person can see as completely stupid? The guy has been fed an enormous line of bullshit, and he apparently bought it. Very frustrating.
to "appreciate" anything
Am I the only one who thinks it's just a little bit creepy that we're going by and taking pictures of his room?
This is going too far.
How much for the microwave?
A 19 year old student makes what most of us consider a bad decision that will affect the rest of his life. It happens every day, just not to someone in the public eye.
I know what the hell I'm talking about! I had a daughter choose MSU over UM!
suddenly my life doesn't seem so bad
He has the right to do this. Let's wish him luck and move on.
I'm really trying to think of this in his shoes and not as a Michigan fan. He's getting guaranteed money next year in the NBA so I can't blame him for taking that but as a former sports player I would be kicking myself that I didn't even win an NCAA tourney game...especially when I think about the potential of next year's team.
Plus, the extra year of development and the increased exposure when Michigan is likely towards the top of the Big Ten (and hopefully a deep tourney run) would probably make him more money if he came out next year getting him drafted higher.
Would love to be selfish but I hope this move works for him.
he only gets guaranteed money if he gets drafted in round 1. despite the 20-35 projection, i think most rational people think he falls well below that where nothing is guaranteed.
You are a fool Trey Burke, and you will lose...everything.
I see nobody appreciates a good Harry Potter reference. Unbelievable.
But I can't say I think its a mistake.
I've been out of college for 10 years, and had (what I consider to be) a reasonably succesful career. During that 10 years I have made less than $850,000.
That is what the 30th pick (Ive seen Trey's evlaluations as high as 24, as low as undrafted). made in the draft last year, in 1 year. Supposing he sat on the bench for another year, he'd surprass $1.5M. I certainly won't hit that anytime in the forseeable future.
The rookie wage scale for 2011:
I went to the same high school as Trey, and I can say that if he made even a portion of that amount, he would far exceed what anyone else is earning. With the probably exception of Jared Sullinger, he will immediately be the highest earning graduate from Northland since Dwight Yoakam.
Knowing a knee injury, a bad year, or a myriad of other scenarios could put this in jeopardy, I can't fault him. And while no one is mentioning it, I'm sure the possibility of being drafted to play with his lifelong best friend is a factoring into his decision. Jared will probably be a top 10 pick, and Trey could easily go in the beginning of the second round..
Go Vikings, Go Blue, and best of luck Trey.
why don't you post the avg salary of all the 2nd round draft choices from last year, plus the other guys who left early and didn't get drafted. i bet half of those guys didn't even make the nba; the other half makes the league minimum of approx $400k. so now you're looking at an avg between $200-300k for year 1. then, many of those guys will fall of the roster in year 2.
if trey stays, he's more likely to be drafted in round 1 and be guaranteed the money you note but with the potential to be higher.
I only had average salaries for the first round. I did a quick look and couldnt find the second. I'm curious as well if you want to dig those up and share.
Anyone who pretty much knows they are going in the first round would be dumb not to go. It is huge money, and it's guaranteed.
Getting drafted in the 2nd round is a crapshoot. Yeah, You can still make good money compared to the rest of the population. But your contract is not guaranteed and the team can just dump you on a whim.
The question really is, if he came back and improved, would he be able to get his draft stock up enough to go in the 1st round for sure?
If he is gone, I wish him the best.
But the same why I 'wished' Morris good luck, I don't think Trey goes before the 40th pick or so. He is hurting himself longterm. Hope I am wrong...but when is the last time we were wrong?
Good decision by the kid. Trey will be fine. The MBB team probably won't be, though.
Need to search for Bo's "The Team" speech and take a fuckin chill pill...it's Trey's decision not yours or even your child's, I hope he comes back for many reasons but more importantly to see how all of you react.
^^^^^ Truth Bomb ^^^^^
I Care about the "TEAM" all Michigan TEAMS....anything that Hurts the Team Im against. Ive followed Michigan Teams for decades..Those players that leave early I tend to forget and they fade away. I dont even really consider them Michigan Men...They are "ME" people not TEAM people...Is that right? I have no clue but if they do something that hurts the Team I dont like it..Trey Burke leaving hurts The TEAM...period...
Cross-posted from the other thread:
I'm not saying "he should have gone" because the only thing that will determine that is how he fares.
But the idea that he's underdeveloped is a bit much, in my opinion. He was, arguably, the most productive PG in the nation from a statistical standpoint, and was definitely the most productive of guys that might be in this draft. This draft is EXTREMELY thin in Point Guards. I realize Austin Rivers is a pro SG, but he played point at Duke, so here is Burke compared to his cohort in this class, using tempo-free stats to even out playing time:
Trey Burke: 105.3 ORtg, 53.8% TS%, 28.7 Arate, 18.6 TOrate, 30.6 FTrate
Austin Rivers: 104.7 ORtg, 53.8% TS%, 13.0 Arate, 17 TOrate, 45.8 FTrate (Burke was as good a shooter, a much better facilitator, equivalent risky with the ball, not as good at getting to the line)
Tony Wroten: 95.5 ORtg, 48.8% TS%, 24.5 Arate, 21.7 TOrate, 59.1% FTrate (Burke is superior at everything other than getting to the line)
Marquis Teague: 99.4 ORtg. 49.1% TS%, 25.5 Arate, 23.7 TOrate, 33.8 FT rate (Burke is superior in everything other that getting to the line, where he is nearly equal)
Tyshawn Taylor: 104.2 ORtg, 56.9% TS%, 29.7 Arate, 22.6 TOrate, 42 FTrate (Taylor grades out as slightly better in everything other than turnovers, but his usage was sufficiently smaller for Burke to provide more value - hence the higher ORtg)
From a standpoint of PRODUCTION, Burke is arguably the best PG in the draft.
The knock is that Trey is a minimum of 4 inches shorter than all these players. But staying in college won't make him grow.
If college stats translated into NBA potential, we'd have a lot of short white guys making the all-star game every year.
Thank you for making my point.
Burke could "improve" next year, and he'd still be drafted in the same spot because he's 5'10" and not terribly athletic. If being good in college was what mattered to the NBA, he'd be the first guard taken.
this is flawed logic. right now burke is 5'10" - strike one. i think almost everyone on this board thinks his game needs improvement (ie. shot, court vision, etc). Yet, you seem to think he wouldn't get drafted higher if those things do improve. i don't get it.
if i'm a GM why would i take a chance on a 5'10" guard who has to improve in a lot of areas? i would be more likely to take a more polished "short" PG like jordan taylor. imo, taylor improved his draft stock a lot by staying the past two years. is it definitive? No. but likely, yes.
Your logic is flawed because Jordan Taylor doesn't make a single mock draft that exists. If Burke is getting a draft grade, he's regarded as a better prospect.
The Point Guards in this draft are Austin Rivers, Marquis Teague, Tony Wroten, Tyshawn Taylor, and Trey Burke. 4 of them are freshman. All of them have weaknesses. Yet Rivers is getting a lottery grade, and Wroten and Teague are getting 1st round grades DESPITE being measurably worse at basketball.
BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL AT LEAST 6'3".
You forgot Kendall Marshall, and possible lottery pick, and with those 4 point guards going in the first round, and the stacked talent at point guard in the league, it doesnt look good for Burke
Agreed that these statistics show that Burke should be considered the top PG in the draft, but the truth is that the statistics do not matter. Right now Trey is anywhere from the 5th-7th point guard in the draft, and the issue is, the league is already pretty stacked with young point guard talent, there are very few teams who do not already have two established point guards on their team, and this years free agency really plays a part in the draft process. There are 4 very good guards entering free agency this year with, Deron Williams, Nash, Eric Gordon, and Jameer Nelson. If teams who have lottery picks need a point guard and think they have a pretty good shot at one of these established players, they will address a different need in the draft, and that would mean the guys like Kendall Marshall and Austin Rivers will drop in the draft, which unfortunetely for Trey, would mean that all the other point guards in the draft would also be negatively affected by it.
Italian Afro Man, COME ON DOWN!!!
Who knows how his experience has been outside of the team? Sure, his Michigan education might be free, a perk which most of us can't imagine giving up, but I'm sure it is no picnic. That could also influence his decision. Stay, and you're not just playing basketball for another year, you're also signing up for another year of classes and all that it entails.
Getting through Michigan as a student-athlete is probably pretty brutal at times. Even with the academic assistance they get.
Do I think it's short-sighted to leave? Sure. But let's recall that there may be more to it than the siren call of pro money and fame. Maybe he wants to get out from under the soul-crushing GRIND that college is at times, particularly if school hasn't been your focus in the preceding 5 or more years.
the grind of college? the soul-crushing GRIND of being a student athlete? you mean unlike the soul crushing GRIND that is real life? in a law firm or a D-league travel grind? dude.
I'm saying his decision could feel like this:
Stay at Michigan: play the game I love, learn plays, get coached, train hard, BUT ALSO have to take classes, show up for lectures, attend study table, write papers, read books, work on projects, meet with tutors, etc.
Leave Michigan to play pro at some level: play the game I love, learn plays, get coached, train hard. Full stop. WITHOUT the full-time job of being a student on top of it.
If you're not into school, and maybe you haven't been into school for a long time now because your athletic talents have directed your focus elsewhere.... the 'get an education' piece of staying might feel like more of a millstone than a fantastic benefit. yeah yeah yeah, I know playing in the NBA or the D League isn't all sunshine and roses and its hard work and there's lots of uncertainly. But he's got a lot of that here, too. Plus school on top. Maybe he doesn't like that mix.
I'm not trying to argue any of your points, because they are all valid. College is what most everyone that wants to be a professional and achieve what they want to achieve in life has to put up with. The lectures, study halls, papers, exams, ect., is just what we have to deal with to get where we want to go. If for any reason he doesn't get guaranteed money or something happens where he doesn't have basketball money coming in, he will wish he put up with the annoyances of going to a place like UM (with great academic resources and tutoring available as a student athlete) to get his degree, IMO. Or stayed long enough so all he had to do is cap it off, not take 100+ credits worth of classes.
I still am having a hard time comprehending Trey Burke in the NBA. Seriously, he's still looks like a baby. He'll be swimming in a league of genetically mutated man children. I cant think of one NBA roster where he is better than the point guards they currently have. Hopefully he likes Turkey.
On a positive note, hopefully this helps with recruiting and we see some positive blowback from putting a couple PG's in the league.
He's a great athlete and was awesome for the school. Go Blue, God Bless. God Speed Trey, may you never find yourself driving the lane against Kendrick Perkins.
I mean, it's not like the Michigan "family" would turn on him the second he's no longer useful to the basketball team. I can't even imagine seeing something like that. Where on earth would Burke get the idea that college basketball is a business of sorts in which everyone uses everyone? That would be a crazy idea. Michigan fans have his back through thick and through thin, right? And they certainly wouldn't attack him in a public forum - that's for sure.
Reading through this thread, I'd be in the proverbial foxhole with some of you guys any day of the week. You're true blue.
Will you please change your avatar?...I've already forgotten who that is. /
Eh. Brian had it right with posting Henri. All the arguing, prospecting, and speculation is silly until we see what happens. I suppose there is a chance that players, coaches, or even the AD may check this blog, but my guess is no. Oh well, such are sporting blogs.
Whatever happens, thanks for the Big Ten (co)Championship and wins over MSU and OSU. Wish we went further in the tournament this year.
Does that mean he'd go 20-35 in any given year? Is it taking stock of teams' projected needs? Is it his ranking among people expected to enter the draft? I'm willing to bet there's way more than 15 people who've been evaluated "20-35."
I'm all for kids bolting for $$, but this is a mistake. Another year of pretty much the same or slightly better play and he's in the lottery. AND, earns enough credits for an associates if he were to transfer later on.
Trey Burke is NEVER in the lottery unless he became Ty Lawson.
And he's nothing approaching that sort of athlete.
Respectfully disagree. Lawson is a good comparison, TL averaged 4 less points and one more assist than Trey as a freshman. Obviously Trey had to carry more of the load than TL, but I think Trey is a better and more creative scorer.
I think Lawson is on a completely different level of athleticism.
One thing I have been pounding my head into the wall about in these threads is that the NBA largely cares about your physical package than your college numbers - if it didn't, Draymond Green would be a lottery pick.
Burke is probably 2 inches shorter than Ty, and significantly less explosive.
I see, honestly, Mario Chalmers as a closer comparison. Chalmers shooting, as a freshman, was roughly equivalent to Burke's, he's approximately the same size, and is, to my eye, roughly equivalent an athlete.
If, like Chalmers, Burke can become a reliable three-point shooter, he'll stick in the NBA. Guys have 15 year careers based on nothing other than the ability to shoot.
That is all.
Guys, help me out here. Didn't Brian's source say that Trey was 100% gone, but later Trey had a CHANGE of heart. Wouldn't that mean that he got second thoughts about leaving. Maybe he packed his bags, then had a change of heart...
*insert dumb and dumber clip*
Good question. I wondering the same thing but I thought maybe I missed something.
Dan Patrick just said Trey is leaving. Seems kind of unprofessional to say that on a national radio show before it has been confirmed.
10 stages of grief. I waited until I reached acceptance before posting. While I think this is terrible decision by Trey and his family it is their decision not mine or anyone else.
Good luck Trey. I hope it works out in the future. If only one of your final shot attempts had gone down against Ohio...
On the MGoApp so can't post links, Freep just reported he's undecided as of today.
I have scene this movie twice already... Who doesn't like trilogies??? It never ends well either :(
Really? Are you sure?
The kid played great for a year. He played so well, that he as an opportunity to make his dream come true and go to the NBA. Presumably he's talked to people who are smart enough to give him good advice. That advice might even say that he's likely a second-rounder, and that's good enough for him. Regardless, it doesn't matter. I get the disappointment at him leaving, but not the holier-than-thou attitude. He's worked hard and earned the opportunity. Good luck to him.
Also, I think some posters on this board need to figure out what they want. Do you want a team where all the best players stay three or four years? Or do you want a team that contends for and wins championships? They are mutually exclusive, even if you're Butler.
The problem is not that he is leaving early. The problem is that he's making a bad decision. I don't think anyone would be pissed if he was the next Lebron, but it's almost certain he won't be going in the first round. It's a mistake.
There years of money will more than offset 1 year. If a team has told him they will take him he is making a great decision. Many of you need to return to math class. It is s gamble to get injured or have a bad year as well.
So with the subject of injury, have players become too sensitive and afraid of being injured? I personally think so. The same thing can be said about driving home. You could get in a car accident and your career could be over. BJ Askew. My real concern for Trey is that he is still developing and seemingly you only have 2 years to prove yourself in the nba. So, wouldn't you want yourself to be at your peek?
I think the real reason for the backsplash from fans is feeling like we're almost there, but then our best player leaves early for the nba each year. I believe everyone wouldn't be so hard on Trey if it wasn't for Morris and Harris leaving before him. It just seems as if the frustration has grown over the years.
You're actually saying that teams whose best players stay three or four years can't contend for and win championships? That's a novel view, I must admit.
Can you name any championship teams over the last 15 years that didn't receive prominent contributions from players who entered the draft before their junior year? I guess there's Florida in 2007, but that seems like an outlying case of a team that featured several players that could have gone pro as sophomores but who basically decided that they wanted another championship (plus Speights contributed a bit, and he went pro after his sophomore year).
I don't think Duke 2010 had a player that would leave before their Junior year. The one early exit is Plumlee, who is leaving after his 3rd year.
smith was the PG on that team and had a good year. he then stayed for his senior year and got drafted in the first round. would he have been drafted in the first round after his junior year? maybe, but his senior stats were better across the board which likely solidified his first-round status.
trey's stats are likely to improve across the board too, if he stays.
Yeah, good call. That Duke team definitely fits the mold of a championship-caliber team that didn't have any one-and-done level players (though it wouldn't have been absurd for Singler to have gone pro after his freshman or sophomore years). I think the broader point -- that this is a relatively rare thing -- still holds.
As an aside, I think that the case of Singler is instructive vis-a-vis Burke. Singler could have gone pro early, and probably would have been a late first-round pick if he'd have done so. But he decided to stay all four years to develop, and he wound up getting drafted in the 2nd round and is now playing in Spain. The assumption that more college leads monotonically to better draft position and more productive overall career is foolish, but it's continually trotted out by a majority of the people here who feel that they know exactly what's in Burke's best interest.
bold assumption to say he was a first-rounder in 2010 when 2011 was a weaker draft by all accounts. his senior #s were comparable to his junior #s. i really don't think his stock fell any by staying. but look at his jump from frosh to soph.
Singler was seen as a guy who could spread the floor from the 3, and then promptly went out his senior year and shot 31% from three after shooting 37% for his career to that point.
What happened? Big slide.
if he would have made a half a dozen more 3s his senior year he would have been a first rounder. that is absurd. i give GMs more credit than that.
Check out his DraftExpress profile:
In March of his sophomore year, they were projecting him as "a mid-to-late first round pick if he declares". By February of his junior year, DraftExpress wrote that "Singler may be kicking himself for not even attempting to test the NBA draft waters last year, as there is a very good chance that he would have been a first round pick. This year, his draft position is less certain." By his senior year, they were noting his lack of overall progress, the regression in his rebounding numbers, and the fact that he might be "destined for a role as a one-dimensional player, one who is not particularly consistent at that particular dimension—shooting."
Passing up on draft opportunities can hurt.
is also saying he is having a change of heart and might stay.
All you people crying about how we should be thanking Burke, rather than being angry with him, need to get a grip.
Contrary to what D-Mo may have to say about it, we are not fickle for being mad at a guy for skipping town. With Burke, the basketball team would be on the verge of one of its best seasons since the Fab Five. If he leaves, as it seems he has, he has effectively abandoned and rejected this university.
When Bill Frieder accepted the job at Arizona State, Bo didn't come out and say, "Hey now, this guy has done a lot of good for U-M, so we owe him our thanks and gratitude and I wish him the best during his final run as Michigan's coach in the NCAA tourney," he fired his ass and didn't look back. When you make a decision that promotes your own interests over the interests of your teammates and the University, however reasonable that decision may be, the community has every right to be angry with you and act accordingly.
Those who stay will be champions, not only on the field/court but also in the hearts and minds of their fans.
Now of course, trashing Burke's Twitter is just petty and immature and of course I don't condone that. But don't tell me I shouldn't be mad at him if he leaves.
U mad bro?
Bill Frieder wasn't a kid
I'm sorry but you guys are making me stick to my stomach. Don't you know what the phrase, "Those who stay will be champions" means? I can tell you what it doesn't mean: it doesn't mean that if you're a kid, and you had a good season, and you might be able to go pro and get drafted in the first round, then well, it's okay to leave.
You've all forgotten Bo's legacy.
And for the record yes, I am mad.
I'm sorry but you guys are making me stick to my stomach. Don't you know what the phrase, "Those who stay will be champions" means?
Virtually nothing, given the noxious over-use, and thoughtless repitition.
Anyway, in the most literal sense, Burke already is a champion.
I have nothing more to say to you. Bo is rolling over in his grave.
Bones require muscalture to move.
But this does prove my point about "those who stay" - you love your meaningless cliches.
so let's just agree to disagree and move on.
So a student athlete should base his decisions on our own selfish agenda rather than his own personal reasons. I'll be upset as the next person if he leaves, but he doesn't owe anything to anybody or the university.
So it's selfish for the University to not want the b-ball team to be thrown into complete and total disarray? What about the team members themselves?
IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE TEAM...
So where were the torches and pitchforks when Manningham and Arrington left? As far as I'm concerned, those guys are still "Michigan Men." You can be mad about the situation, but don't be mad at the guy. The game is a business. How does Trey know that he won't have a THjr-type season next year that will set him back in terms of draft stock?
"When you make a decision that promotes your own interests over the interests of your teammates and the University, however reasonable that decision may be, the community has every right to be angry with you and act accordingly.
Those who stay will be champions, not only on the field/court but also in the hearts and minds of their fans."
We laughed at SDSU fans who called Brady Hoke a traitor for leaving for his dream job. How is this any different?
that his ultimate goal was to be the head coach at Michigan?
I'm 100% positive that Burke has said his dream job is to play in the NBA.
between head coaching positions and playing in the NBA. Hoke would never have been able to coach at Michigan if he had never left SDSU. Burke would have been able to have a shot at the NBA if he had stayed one more year.
If his knee didn't go the way of Da'Sean Butler, a guy that stayed his senior year, and saw his draft prospects fizzle when his knee exploded.
Or, if his season didn't go the way of Durrell Summers. Or Kalin Lucas. Or Tim Hardaway Jr.
there is a risk in staying. but last year (a weaker draft by all accounts), approx 50 college guys declared early for the nba. approx half of them didn't get drafted.
I don't wish Burke any ill will, but this is apples and oranges. A guy leaving at the end of his freshman season (apparently without even finishing the term) is quite different from a guy leaving when he is pretty close to graduation. And in Hoke's case, that might have been his only chance to ever get the Michigan job. If Hoke had stayed at SDSU, he might have closed that door forever. Burke, barring some kind of catastrophe, should still have the NBA out there in a year's time.
The principle was the same, though. Hoke saw his opportunity and took it, knowing that it's not a sure thing he'd get the offer again. Like i said, how do we know Trey doesn't have a THjr-like season next yr with a different offensive focus and have his stock plummet?
And in Hoke's case, that might have been his only chance to ever get the Michigan job. If Hoke had stayed at SDSU, he might have closed that door forever. Burke, barring some kind of catastrophe, should still have the NBA out there in a year's time.
So Hoke "may never have gotten another shot", so jumping is fine.
Burke "may not get another shot", but it's differenent, because the percentages are different?
He can, 100%, get drafted now. He doesn't know that next year. Maybe his draft dreams will go the way of Tim Hardaway's, Durrell Summers', or Kalin Lucas'. Maybe they'll go the way of Da'Sean Butler as he cries about a shredded knee ligament on the court.
says who? it's likely he gets drafted. but you don't know for sure. manny thought he might get drafted in the first round too.
isaiah thomas was drafted #60 (final pick) last year after his junior year. his size and game appears very similar to me as trey.
You're talking about the guy who has played his way into a contract extension, and an assured NBA career, right?
but to deny there is a big difference to "play" your way into a contract and having one guaranteed from the outset (ie. round 1 draft choice) is a HUGE difference...and HUGE money difference.
A low first round pick makes about $2.5 million over three years, and guaranteed a qualifying offer of about $450,000 his 4th year as an RFA. That last year isn't guaranteed.
Isaiah Thomas was the very last pick in the draft, and he signed a 3-year deal for $2.1 million total (he also now has a team option for $1.2 million for a 4th, which it looks like they'd take).
So over 3 years, the difference is $400k.
thomas had to prove himself first. that's the HUGE difference. if burke gets drafted in round 1 that $2.5M is guaranteed.
Burke is not guaranteed to get drafted. That's the big sticking point. He could get seriously hurt, yes, but that doesn't happen that often in college basketball. He's probably more likely to raise his stock by staying than lower it. That seems to be the consensus among NBA analysts, who are almost all saying he should wait a year.
There are two year-round websites dedicated to following the NBA draft that say he is in no appreciable danger of not being drafted.
why do you seem to think that getting drafted is the equivalent of getting drafted in the first round? i could argue that it's better to go undrafted than drafted in the 2nd round, since then you (and your agent) could try and find a team looking for a backup PG as a free agent. if you are drafted in round 2 then get cut. forget it. your nba career is likely done.
the poster said he wouldn't get drafted.
getting drafted in the 2nd round is getting drafted.
Also, I'd argue that if you get cut, your career is pretty much done.
You seem to think that getting drafted in the 1st round will set you up for life. The only thing that will do that is playing well - which, I think we can agree, doesn't depend on draft slot.
maybe not, but getting drafted in round 1 gets probably at least $3M guaranteed. that's a good start. second round or less gets you a guaranteed nothing.
Thomas has actually not been extended, I was wrong.
Somewhat was his rookie contract, as the last pick.
30 draft slots cost him $400k over three years.
To a specific team. In no way are they saying he has little chance of not getting drafted. If those teams don't pick him, he could very well slide. And it wouldn't mean the sites were wrong in some sort of "guarantee."
(And neither of those sites pick him to be a first round pick. And considering the best experts do a horrible job predicting the lottery, second round picks are a complete guessing game for page view and fun).
He was talking about the opportunity each of them had. Hoke's decision is based on whether there is an opening that he can take. Burke's decision is based on if he wants to leave. It is impossible to miss out on the NBA because there are full at PG, but it isn't impossible to miss out on the Michigan football head coaching position because it is full. Trey Burke can go to the NBA whenever he wants. The same cannot be said for the head coaching job at Michigan
It's definitely fine to discuss how you think this is a bad move for Trey. However, I think some are doing our fanbase a disservice by how they are acting. So many people on here talk about Michigan's tradition and respectable fanbase. Then, when one of our own decides to go pro, we have some trashing his twitter account and questioning his loyalty. Some of you sound like Ohio fans the way you turned on Trey. What more does he owe Michigan? He came for one year and was the main reason for our co-big ten championship.
Let's look at it from this way for those who are saying this is the dumbest move ever. First, he might have already talked to a few teams and been assured he is a top 25 pick. His main knock is his lack of size. He's not going to grow anymore. So is he the type of player that would really benefit from sticking around? This draft class is as thin at PG as a class will ever be. Trey came off the type of stellar year that would be hard for almost anyone to duplicate. He's going out at the top of his individual game.
Last, he's going to make, at a minimum, 15x the average American salary in a year. I can't fault anyone for doing that in this world. He should stay in school and get his degree..blah blah blah. What's he going to do with that? Get a job in general studies or business and make $80,000 a year? (and that's ONLY because of who he is, not the school). This economy has hurt everyone. If he can go right now and make a few million, no one has the right to demoralize him. Be thankful for what he gave us. Go Blue
You don't think I should question his loyalty? If he leaves he has effectively rejected and abandoned this University. Please read my post above. The b-ball team would be on the verge of it's best season in nearly two decades if he stayed.
What more does he owe us? IIRC, that's not what Bo said to Frieder.
Yes tag me as trolling because I stand behind Bo's principles
Those are two completely different scenarios. Frieder's decision to leave was a lateral career move to a different university. If Burke was transferring then it would be a different story.
In your own words, he owes us NOTHING. Absolute nada.
Trey Burke owes you what, exactly? I'm curious if he knows what his obligations to you are, and if he thinks your personal expectations are fair. Also, when did he take on this obligation to you?
So I don't see why you have to go off and be a smart-ass about it.
You're completely misunderstanding my point. My point is that Burke is not entitled to the unconditional affection of Michigan fans if he skips town.
You're not saying he doesn't deserve unconditional affection, you're saying that Burke is a bunch of bad things for making a decision you disagree with. Who are you referring to, if not yourself? I'd like to hear who you're speaking on behalf of, or at least attempting to. Ultimately, this is Burke's life; this isn't about your MBB fandom, or your degree or season ticket status, this is a person's life. Tearing down a person's name because they see their life in a different manner than you is all types of ridiculous, and frankly a terrible thing to do.
He's entitled to the respect that comes from being a Big Ten champion at Michigan. Woodson left early, yet nobody around here is lambasting his life choices. As for your repeated points about Frieder, why not hate Beilein? He made a lateral move and "quit" on his previous team. What a terrible person...
Do a lot of people think everyone is better off with Burke back? Yes; I'm one of them. I see no reason for name-calling or disregarding his accomplishments within the Michigan basketball program, though. Unless you're on the team, or you're on the coaching staff, Burke owes nothing to anyone on this board. Period.
You'll see that my ONLY point was that Michigan fans do not owe it to Burke to not be angry with him for leaving. I never once called Burke any names. Perhaps it was too strong to say he "rejected" the University by leaving, but clearly he did "abandon" it, no?
I have tons of respect for Burke. I think he is a commendable young man and I would NEVER call him "a bunch of bad things" or try to "tear down his name." ALL I am saying is that I don't understand why everyone is upset that Michigan fans are upset with Burke.
Because Michigan basketball fans like yourself are upset with Trey Burke because our basketball team will be worse, not because of what Trey burke's life will be like. Thinking he is making a wrong decision because he might make more money next year is a lot different than being mad at him because you feel like he abandoned your basketball team and made them worse next year. One is being concerned for Trey Burke. The other is selfishly being concerned for your fandom
should not care about whether or not certain players' actions throw the team into disarray - they should care only about the careers of those players. Interesting. So by this logic nobody should have been mad that Justin Boren transferred, because it turned out to be a good "career move" on his part, winning 3 Big Ten Championships (plus a Rose and Sugar Bowl) and all.
What on earth does Trey Burke owe you, personally?
I never once said it was about me. All I'm saying is that if you truly believe Burke doesn't owe it to the University of Michigan to stay one more year, then the Michigan community does not owe him their affections.
You don't owe him affection. Claining he is "abandoning" and "rejecting" the school is pretty ball-clinching rhetoric, though.
It's his life, and he's doing what he thinks is right for him. Is he right? Nobody knows for sure. But characterizing it as "rejection" is breathing some sort of motivation into his actions that doesn't exist.
And my whole point to begin with was just that everyone out there complaining about Michigan fans being fickle are being unreasonable. If Burke doesn't owe it to the University to stay one more year, I just don't see why Michigan fans owe it to him to not be mad with his decision to leave.
Remember when Rich Rod told some Michigan fans to, "get a life?"
He was talking to you.
belong on Mlive. I said nothing unreasonable, and now you're just trolling.
There is a reason every one of your posts has been collapsed, and it's not because you're some great crusader, speaking truths in the face of mass delusion.
This argument has been over for hours and now you're going out of your way to tell me that I need to get a life if I'm upset that Burke is (possibly) leaving. Where did I go wrong here exactly? I stressed that I think Burke is a commendable young man, but that it isn't unreasonable of some fans to be mad at him for leaving, when his doing so will have an enormous negative impact on the team. Is that really so terrible of an opinion to have?
And my posts are collapsed because I happened to be arguing against 3 people who strongly disagreed with me and made it a point to immediately neg me every time I made a comment. Go figure.
Now, because I've commented on a few of your posts, you think I have some vendetta against you.
I'll tell you why people around here don't appreciate your posts. You come across as an arrogant, spoiled, petulant, entitled, douche bag.
You may not be any of these things, but that's what is communicated via your posts.
Trey deciding to leave is not him "abandoning" the University, or slapping his teammates in the face. One of the products of recruiting a higher caliber of player and building a strong basketball program, is that guys will leave early.
Guys will leave who are excellent players, and those guys leaving will undoubtedly have a negative impact on the program.
However, it is completely and totally classless to insinuate that a player does care about Michigan or his teammates, or cares less about Michigan or his teammates, simply because he chooses to make a very personal decision about his future.
There is no reason to be "mad" at Burke for leaving. That is completely ridiculous. You're only mad because what might be best for Burke (going pro), doesn't match up with what you would like to see (Burke staying). That's why someone called you out and said you're putting your own self interests above all else, because it's true. No player is bigger than the program, but the program isn't bigger than any one kid.
If it does make you mad, take some time off following sports. Get a new hobby, but don't come onto mgoblog and trash an 19 year old kid by saying that he abandoned Michigan, or implying that he doesn't care about his teammates. If you want to be mad or lash out, scream into a pillow. Most of us don't want to hear that nonsense.
And another thing, if he doesn't love Michigan as much as me or you, so what? Why get mad about something that trivial?
I now realize I said some things that were out of line but that wasn't the intent going in. The only reason I even entered the conversation was because 26 de Julio was tearing everybody down who didn't agree with Burke's decision and acting like they were being irrational. But what I said was bad, and I did it because I am "arrogant, spoiled, petulant, entitled, and a douche bag."
Quick question though: is it wrong of me to feel that someone like say, Denard Robinson, cares more about his teammates and the University of Michigan than Burke does, because of the fact that he chose to stay?
It's fine if you feel that way personally, but it becomes a problem when you're espousing something that is generally unknowable, trying to build a narrative from it, and posting it on mgoblog where everyone else has to see it.
It's a given that if Trey Burke leaves, every single fan of Michigan athletics will be unhappy about that information, but we can choose how we react to it.
Getting mad at the kid is probably the least desirible reaction, and having been a member of this board since before it was a board, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the majority of posters will not respond kindly to such behavior.
EDIT: Just so you are aware, I am not the one negging your comments.
*cringes*/*looks around like a frightened squirriel for person negging my posts*
Are very important, no doubt, but the world has evolved over the last 40+ years. It's just a fact.
To go work for the Tigers. Just sayin'.
but whatever it was (or maybe it wasn't anything actually said) it was enough to make Frieder fear for his job and make a hurried lateral move to a lesser program.
Bo's "Michigan man will coach Michigan" comment has been misremembered by many and was probably misunderstood by some at the time. Frieder's failure to be what Bo considered a Michigan man wasn't triggered by his leaving (though I'm sure that didn't help) but by his running his program in a sloppy, borderline-sleazy and completely un-Bo-like manner. Bo was ready to clean house; when Fisher won the national title three weeks later that was no longer feasible so Bo left instead.
None of this has anything to do with Trey Burke.
For whatever reason people who think he's making a career error that will hurt HIS income by leaving school early are "trashing" him. I for one wish him nothing but the best but think that he's making a big mistake that will negatively impact his earning power by not staying.
If that's considered "trashing him" then so be it.
Isn't it possible that he is just going home for easter and is taking some of his clothes with him so he doesn't have to make an extra trip at the end of the year? There are only 2 weeks left of school, its not like he needs a lot of stuff.
He's just taking a vacation?
Best post award!
When I first read the "According to a source, Trey was having a change of heart," bit I thought it meant he was staying. D'oh.
If he really is withdrawing from school a couple weeks before finals, that's hard to understand. He's put in the time this semester and may as well finish it up.
To pass on a few million bucks. I am sure that is what I would do. It is 15 credits he is missing on. What an idiot! Lol jk Trey. I think some people don't realize what they would do for millions. I bet many of you would do a donkey show for a few million, but are criticizing this young man.
Of course I am very disappointed if he leaves. Michigan had a chance at a special season. It also showcases what's wrong with college basketball and the NBA, and why both "jumped the shark" some time ago. This could be fixed but the powers that be don't seem inclined to fix it.
On the other hand Trey came to college with a dream of playing in the NBA and if he can fulfill that sooner by leaving more power to him. Even if he is assigned to the D League or has to go to Europe he will make more money right off the bat than four year grads.
Maybe being 40 yrs old gives me a different perspective.
Who makes millions a year with a Bachelors in Massage Therapy? He is going to be picked 40th and will get his salary regardless. Good decision Trey! Come back to Michigan and get your degree later. I appreciated you playing for us. Go blue!
FWIW, NBAdraft.net updated their mock last night.
They have Burke going 39th to Denver, in the 1st half of the 2nd round.
NBAdraftexpress has him 40th to Boston.
Neither of those are 20-35 like he was informed. Not bad situations though, playing behind Lawson or Rondo. He could learn quite a bit playing against them in practice.
Boston doesn't really have a backup PG currently - they seem to like Bradley as a SG more.
I think Andre Miller's contract is up in Denver after this year.
Both of those teams seem like a decent fit. Selfishly, I would rather see him in Denver if he indeed is leaving.
trey sees that and realizes jumping is a bad move. second round guarantees nothing. staying a year will improve his chances at getting drafted higher.
Add him to the list of PGs leaving too early and most likely in the D-league.
Good luck Trey. Prove me wrong.
Those Who Stay Will Be Champions.
Trey will still enjoy millions even if he is sent to the d league. What a stupid decision lol. I know I would rather play for free for three more years.
How is he going to make "millions?" maybe one million when you add up several seasons bouncing around Europe or china.
Man, that's every West Quad room I've ever been in...
I love Trey and this is always his decision. However, I don't see him as much of an NBA player. The league is filled with good point guards right now, and I doubt he wins a starting job anytime soon, if ever.
Good luck, Trey. I'll still be rooting for you.
Even as a backup PG in the NBA he can make bank. Will Bynum makes a fine living but when you physically compare him and Burke, Bynum looks like a tank. Every single player's situation is different but it wouldn't hurt Burke, IMO, to add as much plausible muscle as he can without affecting his stroke so he can bang around in today's NBA and more realistically attain a guaranteed contract via draft position or his play.
Its a shame to see great potential leave like that couldve gone down as one of he best pg in mbb history!!! Confused on why Burke hasnt announced it via twitter think theres a chance its all a gag?
People can be upset if he's leaving. Playing one year of college basketball is the bare minimum and a lot of us felt like Burke wanted to go a little farther than that. However, people shouldn't get personal and lash out at the guy. I want him to stay, but if he disagrees I'll respect it.
On the other hand, the faction that is lashing out at other fans with the whole "Trey owes you nothing!" bit need to tone it down. Look, we're fans and we build an emotional attachment to these guys whether it makes sense or not. Give us a little space to "mourn" if he leaves.
All I know is this can't be an easy decision for Trey. For those getting all worked up about this and kicking him to the curb, give it a rest. He has an opportunity here to make a lot of money, a LOT more than I've ever had the chance to make. To say it's a no-brainer to just give that all up without contemplation is just immaturity, even if that same opportunity could be guaranteed next year (which it can't).
Most of our thinking has a lot to do with our emotional connection to the Michigan basketball team and our desire to see the team's success magnify next season (and on). In reality, we have no personal connection with the kid. He doesn't owe us anything. This is HIS choice.
Rationally, yes, I think he's probably not making the best decision if he leaves. That can be backed up by his parents and coach Beilein's actions in response to his stance on leaving school.
However, regardless of what may or may not be right, give him a break. The consequences of his decision (whether to stay or to go) are yet to be determined. And our program will not die if he chooses to leave. For those that think it might, refer to the 2012 & 2013 recruiting classes for evidence of the contrary.
I will add that if, in fact, he does decide to leave, I too will be in "mourning."
However, having gone through these "mourning" before, life goes on. And I'm still excited to see how far our program will rise, because it will most definitely continue to do that.
so I really don't see why everyone here expects Michigan fans to offer Burke their full-fledged support in his (potential) decision to skip town. Trashing his Twitter and stuff is just stupid, but honestly you're acting like it's irrational for people to be upset, when it's not.
...to support a decision with which you personally disagree. That's the key here, and from all appearances, it is what fellow MGoBloggers have been trying to tell you for the past several hours. I would love for Burke to stay, develop as a player, and get a degree, but if he wants to go into the draft now, he likely will be drafted (albeit in the 2nd round) and I will respect this decision even if I don't personally like it or agree with it.
Indeed, if it were possible, I would shake his hand and even say thanks for choosing to spend his time at Michigan, even if it was ever so brief.
It's not about putting down people for being upset, but how one expresses just how upset they are.
and I do NOT think he is actively trying to stick it to Michigan by leaving. I believe he's a young kid who had a very good season, and is really excited at the prospect of finally achieving his dream. That being said, I don't see how you could argue that it's unreasonable for some Michigan fans to be upset with him, and feel like there's something missing. We were all absolutely overjoyed when Denard announced he was staying - why? Not because we were selfish, or because we thought he was making a great career move, but rather, because we love this University.
If Denard left and people either bashed him, or were "mad" at him, raging all over the internet, it would be possibly the most disgraceful thing "fans" of this University have ever done.
If I were a mod, anyone bashing Denard for leaving early would be banned. Anyone playing this semantics game of kinda bashing him, then retracting it, but continuing to make underhanded comments, but no they really didn't mean it that way...They'd be banned too.
I have a couple of more questions if you're free.
Are there any circumstances whatsoever where Is it okay for a fan to be upset with a player leaving? Clearly Boren is an example? But where is the line drawn?
Also is it okay for me to love Denard more for the fact that he stayed? Or by doing that am I implying that I would have loved him less if he hadn't stayed, and thereby committing an egregious error?
I feel I've answered these questions in the post above.
And for all the gloomNdoomers declaring the unconditional surrender of Michigan hoops to eternal "Washington Generalism" or for those of you who have said things like "Hoops can't get it's head above water" I say to you, BIG TEN CHAMPIONS!!! Hellooo??? It's okay to be depressed about a defection that would have put hoops over the edge onto that GREAT level from the "In the mix/ Contender" level, but "Can't get there head above water"??? Is head above water the Final Four every year or something??
I can see that kind of sentiment over the last 15 years when we couldn't even get out of bed and Crisler was essentially a back up plan if the movie theater wasn't worthy on a given night, but over the last 2-3 years, we have not only gotten out of bed but hopped into a refreshing shower, dressed ourselves, and managed to even leave the house and bring home some glory. If you went back at all football/basketball teams in the last, I don't know, 20 years, who had a solid foundation, who could have been great if some pro level talent stuck around, we would be talking abou 2012 Kentucky or 2009 UNC caliber teams every other year!!!
Be bummed out for awhile, but don't jump over the ledge. Belein has proven to us that he has the sharpest of eyes for what will produce on his team, so trust in this Spike kid, and REGARDLESS of whether or not he is some under the radar hero or a total bust, step back and frame this into perspective!! Look at last year, look at the talent raw and refined talent that is returning and rejoice on the GREATER SCHEME picture and TREND LINE of where this program is headed under a clearly competent, hungry and passionate leader at helm, and REJOICE!! Don't be a kid who has been driving a rusted out Chevy Cavalier around who suddenly gets a BMW from his parents, but throws a fit because it has 18' rims instead of 24 (Or however those things are measured). Keep your head up, don't be spoiled, look where we've been, look where we're going, look forward to another Big Ten Race in late February, respect the game, respect what kind of life it ultimately creates for those who play it well, and ENJOY IT !!!
Go Belein, Go Blue, Talk to me in March when Belein will once again show us that the OVERALL trajectory of this program toward glory may be briefly stunted for short periods, but CANNOT be denied...
IS IT A HARD DECISION,HE IS A 2 ROUND TO UNDRAFTED PROPECT!!! C'MOM MICHIGAN FANS CALL A SPADE A SPADE!
just want to say what the hell is the hold up then,STOP PLAYING AROUND AND LEAVE!!! TREY DOESN'T BELONG IN THE NBA AND HE SHOULDN'T HAVE PUT HIS NAME IN THE DRAFT THIS YEAR!!! I NOT MAD ABOUT TREY LEAVING HE HAS TO MAKE HIS OWN CHOICE,THE ONLY THING I MAD ABOUT IS HIM PLAYING AROUND WITH US!!!GO BLUE!!!