IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE TEAM...
no, YOU'RE off topic
IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE TEAM...
So where were the torches and pitchforks when Manningham and Arrington left? As far as I'm concerned, those guys are still "Michigan Men." You can be mad about the situation, but don't be mad at the guy. The game is a business. How does Trey know that he won't have a THjr-type season next year that will set him back in terms of draft stock?
"When you make a decision that promotes your own interests over the interests of your teammates and the University, however reasonable that decision may be, the community has every right to be angry with you and act accordingly.
Those who stay will be champions, not only on the field/court but also in the hearts and minds of their fans."
We laughed at SDSU fans who called Brady Hoke a traitor for leaving for his dream job. How is this any different?
that his ultimate goal was to be the head coach at Michigan?
I'm 100% positive that Burke has said his dream job is to play in the NBA.
between head coaching positions and playing in the NBA. Hoke would never have been able to coach at Michigan if he had never left SDSU. Burke would have been able to have a shot at the NBA if he had stayed one more year.
If his knee didn't go the way of Da'Sean Butler, a guy that stayed his senior year, and saw his draft prospects fizzle when his knee exploded.
Or, if his season didn't go the way of Durrell Summers. Or Kalin Lucas. Or Tim Hardaway Jr.
there is a risk in staying. but last year (a weaker draft by all accounts), approx 50 college guys declared early for the nba. approx half of them didn't get drafted.
I don't wish Burke any ill will, but this is apples and oranges. A guy leaving at the end of his freshman season (apparently without even finishing the term) is quite different from a guy leaving when he is pretty close to graduation. And in Hoke's case, that might have been his only chance to ever get the Michigan job. If Hoke had stayed at SDSU, he might have closed that door forever. Burke, barring some kind of catastrophe, should still have the NBA out there in a year's time.
The principle was the same, though. Hoke saw his opportunity and took it, knowing that it's not a sure thing he'd get the offer again. Like i said, how do we know Trey doesn't have a THjr-like season next yr with a different offensive focus and have his stock plummet?
And in Hoke's case, that might have been his only chance to ever get the Michigan job. If Hoke had stayed at SDSU, he might have closed that door forever. Burke, barring some kind of catastrophe, should still have the NBA out there in a year's time.
So Hoke "may never have gotten another shot", so jumping is fine.
Burke "may not get another shot", but it's differenent, because the percentages are different?
He can, 100%, get drafted now. He doesn't know that next year. Maybe his draft dreams will go the way of Tim Hardaway's, Durrell Summers', or Kalin Lucas'. Maybe they'll go the way of Da'Sean Butler as he cries about a shredded knee ligament on the court.
says who? it's likely he gets drafted. but you don't know for sure. manny thought he might get drafted in the first round too.
isaiah thomas was drafted #60 (final pick) last year after his junior year. his size and game appears very similar to me as trey.
You're talking about the guy who has played his way into a contract extension, and an assured NBA career, right?
but to deny there is a big difference to "play" your way into a contract and having one guaranteed from the outset (ie. round 1 draft choice) is a HUGE difference...and HUGE money difference.
A low first round pick makes about $2.5 million over three years, and guaranteed a qualifying offer of about $450,000 his 4th year as an RFA. That last year isn't guaranteed.
Isaiah Thomas was the very last pick in the draft, and he signed a 3-year deal for $2.1 million total (he also now has a team option for $1.2 million for a 4th, which it looks like they'd take).
So over 3 years, the difference is $400k.
thomas had to prove himself first. that's the HUGE difference. if burke gets drafted in round 1 that $2.5M is guaranteed.
Burke is not guaranteed to get drafted. That's the big sticking point. He could get seriously hurt, yes, but that doesn't happen that often in college basketball. He's probably more likely to raise his stock by staying than lower it. That seems to be the consensus among NBA analysts, who are almost all saying he should wait a year.
There are two year-round websites dedicated to following the NBA draft that say he is in no appreciable danger of not being drafted.
why do you seem to think that getting drafted is the equivalent of getting drafted in the first round? i could argue that it's better to go undrafted than drafted in the 2nd round, since then you (and your agent) could try and find a team looking for a backup PG as a free agent. if you are drafted in round 2 then get cut. forget it. your nba career is likely done.
the poster said he wouldn't get drafted.
getting drafted in the 2nd round is getting drafted.
Also, I'd argue that if you get cut, your career is pretty much done.
You seem to think that getting drafted in the 1st round will set you up for life. The only thing that will do that is playing well - which, I think we can agree, doesn't depend on draft slot.
maybe not, but getting drafted in round 1 gets probably at least $3M guaranteed. that's a good start. second round or less gets you a guaranteed nothing.
Thomas has actually not been extended, I was wrong.
Somewhat was his rookie contract, as the last pick.
30 draft slots cost him $400k over three years.
To a specific team. In no way are they saying he has little chance of not getting drafted. If those teams don't pick him, he could very well slide. And it wouldn't mean the sites were wrong in some sort of "guarantee."
(And neither of those sites pick him to be a first round pick. And considering the best experts do a horrible job predicting the lottery, second round picks are a complete guessing game for page view and fun).
He was talking about the opportunity each of them had. Hoke's decision is based on whether there is an opening that he can take. Burke's decision is based on if he wants to leave. It is impossible to miss out on the NBA because there are full at PG, but it isn't impossible to miss out on the Michigan football head coaching position because it is full. Trey Burke can go to the NBA whenever he wants. The same cannot be said for the head coaching job at Michigan
It's definitely fine to discuss how you think this is a bad move for Trey. However, I think some are doing our fanbase a disservice by how they are acting. So many people on here talk about Michigan's tradition and respectable fanbase. Then, when one of our own decides to go pro, we have some trashing his twitter account and questioning his loyalty. Some of you sound like Ohio fans the way you turned on Trey. What more does he owe Michigan? He came for one year and was the main reason for our co-big ten championship.
Let's look at it from this way for those who are saying this is the dumbest move ever. First, he might have already talked to a few teams and been assured he is a top 25 pick. His main knock is his lack of size. He's not going to grow anymore. So is he the type of player that would really benefit from sticking around? This draft class is as thin at PG as a class will ever be. Trey came off the type of stellar year that would be hard for almost anyone to duplicate. He's going out at the top of his individual game.
Last, he's going to make, at a minimum, 15x the average American salary in a year. I can't fault anyone for doing that in this world. He should stay in school and get his degree..blah blah blah. What's he going to do with that? Get a job in general studies or business and make $80,000 a year? (and that's ONLY because of who he is, not the school). This economy has hurt everyone. If he can go right now and make a few million, no one has the right to demoralize him. Be thankful for what he gave us. Go Blue
You don't think I should question his loyalty? If he leaves he has effectively rejected and abandoned this University. Please read my post above. The b-ball team would be on the verge of it's best season in nearly two decades if he stayed.
What more does he owe us? IIRC, that's not what Bo said to Frieder.
Yes tag me as trolling because I stand behind Bo's principles
Those are two completely different scenarios. Frieder's decision to leave was a lateral career move to a different university. If Burke was transferring then it would be a different story.
In your own words, he owes us NOTHING. Absolute nada.
Trey Burke owes you what, exactly? I'm curious if he knows what his obligations to you are, and if he thinks your personal expectations are fair. Also, when did he take on this obligation to you?
So I don't see why you have to go off and be a smart-ass about it.
You're completely misunderstanding my point. My point is that Burke is not entitled to the unconditional affection of Michigan fans if he skips town.
You're not saying he doesn't deserve unconditional affection, you're saying that Burke is a bunch of bad things for making a decision you disagree with. Who are you referring to, if not yourself? I'd like to hear who you're speaking on behalf of, or at least attempting to. Ultimately, this is Burke's life; this isn't about your MBB fandom, or your degree or season ticket status, this is a person's life. Tearing down a person's name because they see their life in a different manner than you is all types of ridiculous, and frankly a terrible thing to do.
He's entitled to the respect that comes from being a Big Ten champion at Michigan. Woodson left early, yet nobody around here is lambasting his life choices. As for your repeated points about Frieder, why not hate Beilein? He made a lateral move and "quit" on his previous team. What a terrible person...
Do a lot of people think everyone is better off with Burke back? Yes; I'm one of them. I see no reason for name-calling or disregarding his accomplishments within the Michigan basketball program, though. Unless you're on the team, or you're on the coaching staff, Burke owes nothing to anyone on this board. Period.
You'll see that my ONLY point was that Michigan fans do not owe it to Burke to not be angry with him for leaving. I never once called Burke any names. Perhaps it was too strong to say he "rejected" the University by leaving, but clearly he did "abandon" it, no?
I have tons of respect for Burke. I think he is a commendable young man and I would NEVER call him "a bunch of bad things" or try to "tear down his name." ALL I am saying is that I don't understand why everyone is upset that Michigan fans are upset with Burke.
Because Michigan basketball fans like yourself are upset with Trey Burke because our basketball team will be worse, not because of what Trey burke's life will be like. Thinking he is making a wrong decision because he might make more money next year is a lot different than being mad at him because you feel like he abandoned your basketball team and made them worse next year. One is being concerned for Trey Burke. The other is selfishly being concerned for your fandom
should not care about whether or not certain players' actions throw the team into disarray - they should care only about the careers of those players. Interesting. So by this logic nobody should have been mad that Justin Boren transferred, because it turned out to be a good "career move" on his part, winning 3 Big Ten Championships (plus a Rose and Sugar Bowl) and all.
What on earth does Trey Burke owe you, personally?
I never once said it was about me. All I'm saying is that if you truly believe Burke doesn't owe it to the University of Michigan to stay one more year, then the Michigan community does not owe him their affections.
You don't owe him affection. Claining he is "abandoning" and "rejecting" the school is pretty ball-clinching rhetoric, though.
It's his life, and he's doing what he thinks is right for him. Is he right? Nobody knows for sure. But characterizing it as "rejection" is breathing some sort of motivation into his actions that doesn't exist.
And my whole point to begin with was just that everyone out there complaining about Michigan fans being fickle are being unreasonable. If Burke doesn't owe it to the University to stay one more year, I just don't see why Michigan fans owe it to him to not be mad with his decision to leave.
Remember when Rich Rod told some Michigan fans to, "get a life?"
He was talking to you.
belong on Mlive. I said nothing unreasonable, and now you're just trolling.
There is a reason every one of your posts has been collapsed, and it's not because you're some great crusader, speaking truths in the face of mass delusion.
This argument has been over for hours and now you're going out of your way to tell me that I need to get a life if I'm upset that Burke is (possibly) leaving. Where did I go wrong here exactly? I stressed that I think Burke is a commendable young man, but that it isn't unreasonable of some fans to be mad at him for leaving, when his doing so will have an enormous negative impact on the team. Is that really so terrible of an opinion to have?
And my posts are collapsed because I happened to be arguing against 3 people who strongly disagreed with me and made it a point to immediately neg me every time I made a comment. Go figure.
Now, because I've commented on a few of your posts, you think I have some vendetta against you.
I'll tell you why people around here don't appreciate your posts. You come across as an arrogant, spoiled, petulant, entitled, douche bag.
You may not be any of these things, but that's what is communicated via your posts.
Trey deciding to leave is not him "abandoning" the University, or slapping his teammates in the face. One of the products of recruiting a higher caliber of player and building a strong basketball program, is that guys will leave early.
Guys will leave who are excellent players, and those guys leaving will undoubtedly have a negative impact on the program.
However, it is completely and totally classless to insinuate that a player does care about Michigan or his teammates, or cares less about Michigan or his teammates, simply because he chooses to make a very personal decision about his future.
There is no reason to be "mad" at Burke for leaving. That is completely ridiculous. You're only mad because what might be best for Burke (going pro), doesn't match up with what you would like to see (Burke staying). That's why someone called you out and said you're putting your own self interests above all else, because it's true. No player is bigger than the program, but the program isn't bigger than any one kid.
If it does make you mad, take some time off following sports. Get a new hobby, but don't come onto mgoblog and trash an 19 year old kid by saying that he abandoned Michigan, or implying that he doesn't care about his teammates. If you want to be mad or lash out, scream into a pillow. Most of us don't want to hear that nonsense.
And another thing, if he doesn't love Michigan as much as me or you, so what? Why get mad about something that trivial?
I now realize I said some things that were out of line but that wasn't the intent going in. The only reason I even entered the conversation was because 26 de Julio was tearing everybody down who didn't agree with Burke's decision and acting like they were being irrational. But what I said was bad, and I did it because I am "arrogant, spoiled, petulant, entitled, and a douche bag."
Quick question though: is it wrong of me to feel that someone like say, Denard Robinson, cares more about his teammates and the University of Michigan than Burke does, because of the fact that he chose to stay?
It's fine if you feel that way personally, but it becomes a problem when you're espousing something that is generally unknowable, trying to build a narrative from it, and posting it on mgoblog where everyone else has to see it.
It's a given that if Trey Burke leaves, every single fan of Michigan athletics will be unhappy about that information, but we can choose how we react to it.
Getting mad at the kid is probably the least desirible reaction, and having been a member of this board since before it was a board, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the majority of posters will not respond kindly to such behavior.
EDIT: Just so you are aware, I am not the one negging your comments.
*cringes*/*looks around like a frightened squirriel for person negging my posts*
Are very important, no doubt, but the world has evolved over the last 40+ years. It's just a fact.
To go work for the Tigers. Just sayin'.
but whatever it was (or maybe it wasn't anything actually said) it was enough to make Frieder fear for his job and make a hurried lateral move to a lesser program.
Bo's "Michigan man will coach Michigan" comment has been misremembered by many and was probably misunderstood by some at the time. Frieder's failure to be what Bo considered a Michigan man wasn't triggered by his leaving (though I'm sure that didn't help) but by his running his program in a sloppy, borderline-sleazy and completely un-Bo-like manner. Bo was ready to clean house; when Fisher won the national title three weeks later that was no longer feasible so Bo left instead.
None of this has anything to do with Trey Burke.
For whatever reason people who think he's making a career error that will hurt HIS income by leaving school early are "trashing" him. I for one wish him nothing but the best but think that he's making a big mistake that will negatively impact his earning power by not staying.
If that's considered "trashing him" then so be it.