If he stays we win the national title. If he goes we've had the pleasure of being part of a tremendous persons college career. Trey is the real deal on every level.
spoiler alert: i linked this
If he stays we win the national title. If he goes we've had the pleasure of being part of a tremendous persons college career. Trey is the real deal on every level.
Even if everyone comes back I would be shocked if we get to the final game two years in a row. Having a really good team is not enough. You have to get a little lucky, get some breaks, and be hot at the right time. I don't think people realize how rare what happened this year really is.
Obviously it's not a guarantee...but if everyone were to return or even everyone minus Burke that team is going to be extremely good. #2 at worst with everyone back and #5ish or so with everyone minus Burke.
Agreed but they'd probably get a 1 seed, making the route far more easier.... we won't be playing a Kansas, Syracuse, Florida, Louisville vector again.. one of the four, yes... two I doubt, three no chance.
I don't think you realize how common it is for teams to go back to back to the Final Four. Louisville just did it, Kentucky did it half a decade ago, hell I'm pretty sure Sparty even did it in 2000 and 2001. The icing on the cake is that the fab five did it. Real good teams find a way to get there.
UCLA went 3 years in a row (06-08), Florida went two years in a row (and won the NC both times in 06 and 07), MSU went to back to back Final 4's in 09 and 10, and Butler went to back to back championship games in 10 and 11. While I agree the Final 4 isn't a lock next year if Burke and the other 3 come back, it's as close to a lock as it's ever going to be and it's certainly a very possible outcome.
came back on this team you could pencil us into the final four, that is no joke. From there, who knows, but barring something truly extraordinary they would win the Big Ten and go to the Final Four.
Put your money where your mouth is; why don't you put it down in pen?
Granted it does happen, but for a school that went 20 years between trips I don't think we can really put us in with those guys.
this team comes back in tact next season, I absolutely believe we belong in the same category as those other teams. The reason we went 20 years in between FInal 4 appearances is because we went through a long spell of bad coaching, bad talent or a combination of both. This year's team was a legitimate Top 10 squad that gained a ton of seasoning and peaked at the right time. We haven't had a single season squad this good since the Fab 5, and whenever we've had individual pockets of talent anywhere near this level, the guys have gone to the NBA early rather than sticking around to build momentum.
In other words, the past 20 years is completely irrelevant to the discussion because we haven't had this type of talent and recent success as the starting point for a new season. There is no recent precedent for Michigan when it comes to having a season like 2012-13, followed by all the major players deciding to come back for the next year.
But many of the teams listed in the examples above that repeated as Final 4 participants did fit this mold. Therefore, I would argue that if the Big 4 come back, Michigan should very much use the MSU's, Butlers, Floridas, UCLAs, etc of the past few years as a realistic benchmark. Back to back Final 4's would not be guaranteed, but they would certainly be a realistic expectation and an attainable goal to shoot for.
went 20 years between trips I don't think we can really put us in with those guys.
We went to six Final Fours between 1964 and 1993. Twice, we went in back-to-back years ('64 and '65, then '92 and '93), and we came very close to doing that one other time (made it in '76 and then were upset in the Elite Eight in '77). So we've actually often been able to sustain success in more than one year. The 20-year drought had a lot to do with our program going through massive turmoil and not just normal variance.
It doesn't matter why we had the 20 year drought, all that matters is that it happened. I know it's hard to believe for some people, but yes, a school like Butler has had a better basketball program than us in the last decade. These are just facts, they don't take anything away from what we accomplished. It's what makes what we accomplished that much more exciting. I do believe we are finally in a position to sustain success, but until that happens we are still a one-hit wonder right now.
Agreed. There's absolutely no way the University of Michigan can compare with Butler.
Florida was back to back champions... goes to show how great that team really was. I think Billy was paying some kids for a while then calmed it down after he was successful so early. He lost to MSU in the finals and won back to back finals within a 5 year span. That is a suspicious success level.
The reason it is so difficult for most teams to do it is because it is so hard to keep a team together. Trey and THJ coming back would eliminate the biggest barrier that prevents continuity of success. If anything one would argue this makes it even more likely because most teams with top talent lose everybody.
Trey did not come back, if everybody else did including Hardaway they would be doing this program a massive service. A mass exodus this year would kind of mean back to the drawing board in terms of stocking talent. With Walton and Irvin coming in next year and given a year to come into their own, Michigan would be firmly in the "reloading" category of teams.
...........just doesn't matter if the heart and desire are not there. All one needs to look at is the past few years of USC and Texas football teams.
And think about all of those guys going to UK, who were the big fish in the small pond for years, coming together and being a group of big fish together, each trying to get their expected piece of the action. It might work out for them, but I could also see horrendous infighting and ball-hogging going on which would impact the potential of how great that team could actually be.
If you look at the best Duke teams, for instance, they had a few stars on them, but also had the role players necessary who knew what their purpose was. Alpha males have a hard time adapting to the mentality needed for being a role player on a team.
Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part that Kentucky implodes next season and never reaches it's potential, but I have to think that their is a good chance that it will happen that way.
But if Burke, McGary, THJ and GRIII all come back next year, I would 100% take Michigan over Kentucky. You'd have a similar number of NBA prospects on both teams, and while you could definitely argue that some of the Kentucky guys would have higher ceilings, most of the key guys on Michigan would be better developed physically and emotionally because of their relative age and experience.
I'll take the talented and experienced team comprised of mostly sophomores and juniors anytime over a group of super freshmen mixed with a talented but undisciplined team coming off an NIT season.
The reality is that Burke and probably THJ are NOT coming back, so without those two then yeah.....I'd favor Kentucky. But if all 4 return, you're looking at a team that top to bottom is the deepest, most talented and most seasoned we've had since 1993.
I hate to say it, but I think the team as a whole would be better if he goes pro. I love Burke , this is not a diss to his game, I just believe are core players would benefit from getting more touches
Queue Dumb and Dumber GIF
You mean "cue".
It must be tiring for him to accept and lug around all these awards.
I just don't see how he can stay. He won every top award there is, he took his team to the national championship game - how much would he as a player gain from staying? I know the team would gain a lot, but at this point, it seems like taking his game to the next level means going to the next level.
Some kids just love college and want to enjoy that lifestyle as long as possible. There certainly are not many examples of players of his level staying in college, but I remember the three Florida players (Noah, Horford and Brewer) that were all but guaranteed lottery picks after winning the national championship deciding to come back for another run, and another championship. Burke's main drive for coming back this year was to win a national title, so maybe knowing how close they came this year and how much talent they will have next year (same team plus another potential future lottery pick in Irvin) will convince him to stay one more year.
But we don't have to look any further than Lewan to see that there are people out there who care about more than just their draft stock. Whether it be the completion of their educational goals or their athletic goals (as they pertain to college). I doubt he stays as well...but he may have a team focused goal of actually winning the national championship and the run they went on this year may have convinced him it's a distinct possibly if he stays.
Again, I don't think he will stay, but there is often more to these decisions than just a persons draft stock and how much it will improve with another year experience.
beg the question though. Burke going pro was looked upon as like the most foregone of all conclusions. Oladipo, Zeller, MacLemore, Carter Williams. I mean all of these guys have declared, why hasn't Trey. I mean it would be just a "as expected, Trey Burke has declared for the NBA draft" type statement, there would be no suspense. I am getting curious that perhaps Trey is a little more conflicted than was assumed about leaving.
Not that odd. Those guys have had a lot more time to think than Trey, who was busy playing basketball.
I'm a huge Michigan fan but I really think he should go. His stock can't really get any higher than it is now..top 10. Poy honors, title game appearance, etc.
His only knock is that he is 6ft tall but that's not something he can change over the next year. His game is pro ready, well rounded and very polished. I wish him the best of luck and whatever team is lucky enough to draft him will surely become my favorite nba team.
Speaking with an eye to Trey's professional future, he'd be foolish not to go now. We all know that. Top 10 projections are as good as it gets...I hope that the New Orleans Hornets can get their hands on him
Based on money I'm assuming. Not everyone thinks that way. If I was him and just lost the national championship game I would come back no doubt even if I was a lottery pick. I'm assuming he leaves but not everyone in the world thinks so highly of money.
Burke's lifelong goal has been to play in the NBA. Being a top 10 pick would ensure a promising beginning to his career (team would incorporate him into the lineup, build around him, etc)
Did you ever think that he might enjoying the notoriety of college basketball that he might not get in the NBA. Yes a little bit of wishful thinking.
Really hoping the Pelicans jerseys are nice, will get one if he goes there. And him, Davis, and Gordon would be a nice combo.
Would definitely be a cause for great excitement in New Orleans.
Totally not going to happen, but how would everyone feel if Trey stays but Mitch, GRIII and THJ all leave?
That is so far fetched it's not even worth thinking about. If they all left there is no way Trey would stick around. Only way he is staying is if they all agree to come back together for one more run.
That's not even in the relm of possibility, but flip the senario and I would be ecstatic because that's literally the best possible scenario
On his podcast on grantland this morning http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=9162163
He stated that this draft is supposedly a really weak class and that they all are about as high as they will get. He cited his own career apparently was rated top 8 sophomore year, stayed and went 13 junior year (not a huge drop but a drop none the less). he said that players that stay longer get over analyzed as teams look more into why they didnt leave and see more weaknesses in them. it was a pretty interesting listen
That's a pretty big leap from Jalen when it comes to GRIII and McGary...but mostly I just hope he's wrong about them all leaving.
Agree. He's completely off about those two. GRIII has all the physical tools but has a few skills to improve on. Mitch only just got into real playing shape and a whole off season can push him another level.
I think GR3 leaving would be a mistake. He's been playing as a 3rd, 4th option all year. He definitely has the measurables, but if he works on his game and be more aggressive. He could be in the top 5, maybe top 3.
God I hope he pulls a Lewan. But if not you're still a 'G' Mr. Burke.
His stock is sky high right now. Should go. Sure, Michigan will miss him, but they'll have replacements ready to go. As someone said earlier, Pistons should take him.
I'd be so damn happy if he ended up with the Pistons!
I love Trey Burke, but the Pistons DO NOT need a PG. I'd rather see them take Oladipo at 5, than Trey.
And it'd be even HIGHER if he were to stay another year and win the BigTen, along with a deep tourney run, wouldn't it?
it doesn't look like that would be the case. As has been belabored, the main knock on Trey is his size, which isn't going to change.
Though if next year was a very strong draft, perhaps he'd have to stay until his senior year...
Every year, the draft is "weak" in comparison to the next year's projection. I guarantee that they'll be saying the same in 2014.
I almost expected him to accidentally announce right there during that segment lol. The Sportscenter guy said they were projecting him in the top 10 and asked what he's heard and he replied that he really wont know until the draft...and he wants to announce in the next couple days to get it off his back. Don't your hopes up folks! Good to see such a classy guy go on to the next level.
Want him to stay for selfish/M reasons, but it's time for him to fly. Unlike Hardaway and Robinson, he doesn't have the benefit of coming from a family where his father made tens of millions of dollars playing ball. Cash in while you can, Trey.
.........that Burke, along with McGary, and obviously Robinson and Hardaway, came from families where money has never been an issue for them. Maybe I'm wrong on that.
As for Burke leaving, I don't believe anyone across the country would fault him for jumping to the NBA now when his stock is as high as it is.
However, if Burke came back I just don't see his draft stock dropping at all, barring a horrendous injury, therefore I couldn't fault him for returning either.
And if he stays, you gotta think that the other three will stay.
So, to Trey, I say, Go if you must. Go if you believe you have what it takes. Go for your own reasons. You will be missed, but you will also be honored by the fans for what you have given out there on the court. We, the fans, would love to have you stay, mostly for our own selfish reasons. And if you do stay, the honor we would lavish upon you would, appropriately, rise to the level of one of the greatest UM athletes, ever. We have your back, either way you decide. And thank you for the memories of this year.
I believe Tim Hardaway Sr was broke before, so not sure how much he has left now. Just to say that having an NBA star father doesn't automatically meaning rich, as we know lots of them didn't have great education on how to spend their money.
I know he had tax problems on his house but he never seemed like the type of guy to have been dumb enough to blow through 60+million. I believe Big Dog is in good financial shape. St. John is a nice area. Never heard anything about Burke's family but even if they're comfortable and not worrying about money, there's a big difference between that and NBA/athlete money.
Staying really makes no sense for him. All that it does is give all the morons in the national media a year to pick apart his game; ask Matt Barkley or some other high profile star that came back for another year. It's different for a guy like Taylor, since he isn't as visible and there isn't a lot to pick apart.
Barkley's problem was that he got hurt. If he'd been healthy his draft stock would have stayed the same.
Except that he threw a bunch of interceptions by trying to force the ball, and now the knock on him is that he doesn't have NFL arm strength, he doesn't read the field well, and forces the ball. Didn't seem to bother anyone last year when he was thought he was the #1 overall pick.
What about Sam Bradford?
As has been said, there is no way Trey will ever be higher on a draft board than he is now. If he declares he will be a millionaire, follow his dream, and have nothing missing from his college career. If I were advising him on his best interests I would tell him to go.
But you've all had the same secret fantasy I've had. It looks something like this:
McGary, Robinson, Hardaway, and Burke announce a joint presser. The board blows up in despair-they're all leaving, Basketball has to rebuild next year. The conference starts.
McGary: "I'm coming back to Michigan to win a national championship."
Robinson:" I'm coming back to Michigan to win a national championship."
Hardaway: "I'm coming back to Michigan to win a national championship."
Burke: "I'm coming back to Michigan to win a national championship."
We're all secretly hoping. Won't happen, but we hope.
Spike: "I'm leaving Michigan to pursue my passion, Kate Upton."
Spike and Kate remind me of Squints and Wendy Peppercorn.
Nice sandlot reference
you'ld be able to tell before the presser really started by what shirts the guys where wearing.
but that same exact fantasy is what has been keeping me going the last 3 days....
Pretty sure Trey can see the writing on the wall. Spike has made his claim to be the starting PG and I don't see him giving that up any time soon. Why bust your butt for minutes here when he can be handed the keys to the Pelicans?
But if Burke and the others all DO come back, next year's team will arguably be the most talented roster from top to bottom Michigan has ever had. Outright B10 title at a minimum and maybe much more.
Every time I think about Burke comming back, I just watch some Walton highlights and whisper "blieve" to myself.
How valuable would it be for Walton to learn under Burke for a year? Unlikely but it would be awesome.
I love Trey Burke, and am happy for him. There are many reasons for him to go on to the NBA. I don't want him to stay at Michigan.
Having said that, money isn't everything. If Trey really likes Beilein, if he really likes being at Michigan, if he loves his teammates, if his parents aren't hurting financially, if he is doing ok in school, if he isn't a Derrick Rose level talent, he could stay.
I rarely speculate on Trey's spiritual life (although his tattoos and comments here and there make it obvious that this is important to him.) But here's the thing. If Trey is that well grounded spiritually, he knows that money won't bring him happiness. The benefits of doing something he enjoys doing, and having the opportunity to go out on top, is pretty cool. As has been said, 2nd place isn't remembered quite the same as first place.
In the end, I still expect Trey to go, but I would not be shocked if he stayed. And if the whole team stays, I think they would have what it takes to compete with anyone next year: win the Big 10 title outright, win the Big 10 Tournament, make a deep run and potentially win the NCAA tournament. Shoot, they could potentially do that without Burke, but with him? That would be incredible.
The reality is, so many people who go on to the NBA never succeed or amount to more than role players. Burke is the man right now, but would he be the man in the NBA? I know there's a place for him, but I don't know that there's superstardom.
I don't think he would leave because of the money waiting, but rather the prospect of being a lottery pick and fulfilling a life long dream.
But Trey may be in the rare place where he gets good well-grounded advice. What I mean is this: Trey can certainly go, and be a lottery pick. But sometimes what you have in your hand actually ends up being bettter than the dream you end up chasing. Who knows: we'll all know soon enough.
Sorry I don't think it's good advice to tell him to stay in school when this year he is potentially the number pick in the draft. I'm not sure if millions of dollars can or can't buy me happiness but i'm willing to give it a shot.
Aaaaand now I get my hopes up, only to be even more crushed when he decides to leave. If he does stay (BIG "if"), I don't think anyone else will leave. Imagine this year's team, but with more experience, 2 additional top-50 recruits, a polished Mitch McGary for conference season, and they don't have to play the 3 best players in the conference not named Trey Burke.
They are too high
you deserve to get paid
but if they all came back it would be Fab Five-esque, and they would shock the world and shit.
Trey's grandparents after the game Monday night. They were lovely and seemed more grateful than disappointed. They said they were possibly a bit relieved it was over because he leaves everything on the court and they didn't want him to get hurt. Commence wild speculation from my cool story sis...
I watched it and I got the assumption that there's a chance he will stay and that he hasn't made his mind up yet. I know last year he wanted to talk to his teammates to see what they thought and get their opinions...so maybe they all get together and decide to all come back? Wishful thinking I know
I will admit that I haven't looked at the numbers, but do we have enough scholarship space to keep everyone?
Or is this assuming that if he stays people would transfer?
Again, would be shocked if he stayed...
There wouldn't be a logjam until next year, i.e., there won't be space problems unless Trey and co. stick around for 2014...so there won't be problems.
Go do your thing Trey. You've given us magical season and swept all the player awards. Make your money, secure your family and strike while the iron is hot.
Don't give the naysayers any reasons to doubt because unless you sweep all the player awards next season those people will try to bring you down a rung or ten.
I don't think he will end up staying, but I do think he's wrestling with the decision more than people assume.
Do *not* get your hopes up. He is gone.
Accoring to this freep atricle...burke on espn radio in LA said he will make a decision this Sunday
In his post-game comments following the last game Trey talked about his relationship with Beilein. It seemed clear that he has learned a lot and understands now what Beilein was trying to teach him. It sounded like what was once a source of frustration has turned into a strength and he said he would always love JB. All this is to say only that Trey will make sure his decision is sound, he loves his coach and teammates in a way he didn't last year. I think he will leave but I respect the hell out of his maturity and thoughtfulness.
I agree that he wll probably go pro, but I'd hate to see it. I have a hard time watching pro ball these days. The pro game hasn't appealed to me for many years -- it just seems not nearly as passionate as the college game. I can't put my finger on all the reasons.
One could argue the same for football (I prefer college football over pro by a factor of ten), but the "yuck factor" differences in basketball from one level to the next seem more pronounced.
So, while it may not be the best decision from a monetary standpoint, I'd like to see Trey come back and enjoy college while he can.