Fuck Lou Bullock
Trey Burke can become M's first 20 ppg scorer since...
I can't find him anywhere in official NCAA records.....
Fair enough for off the court reasons, but I loved watching him play. That man could shoot the rock.
Surprised to see Juwan Howard on that list. I guess I didn't realize how good he was. I mean, I know he was good, but to see him and not Webber or Rose stunned me.
He's a very underrated player. Plus he's like 42 years old and it looks like he's getting picked up by the Heat again this year.
Rose averaged 19.9 ppg the same year Howard averaged 20.8. The year before, Webber averaged 19.2. The Fab Five was really an incredible class.
Too bad they couldn't live up to the sky high expectations at that time. I was a freshman the same year they were. Losing to Duke in the finals just stoked expectations for the following years, but the class started heading for the NBA before they could top their freshman season.
What? Are you aware that the Fab Five went to the national title game in both their freshman and sophomore years? They went 25-9 as freshman (11-7 in the B1G) and then 31-5 (15-3 B1G) as sophomores. They definitely topped their freshman year overall. It was pretty bad luck that they didn't win the league title with that record. And obviously they did better in the national title game, falling just short after losing by 20 the first time.
As I said above I was a freshman when they were. I was a freshman at Michigan and a huge fan. After the disappointment against Duke expectations for the subsequent years weren't about a better season record or making it back to the title game. Those were taken as givens. A title was expected. Losing to Duke again and falling short against UNC and Weber leaving after getting so close again, but not quite, was a huge disappointment to me and just about every single person I knew who cared. I am not saying they weren't good. They were. But they weren't good enough with the expectations set their freshman year.
I think this is overly critical.
I too was a student during their reign and attended both FF trips. To say the losses were disappointing is one thing. But to say they didn't live up to expectations is to my mind beyond harsh. We all knew they were going to be good - but the freshman year was far better than what the preseason expectations were. The soph year certainly had high expectations. And while they didn't bring home the championship, it's not as if they choked and bailed in the second round or anything. They were there at the very end and ended up perhaps one miscalled TO away from winning it.
Despite not actually winning the title, I consider those two years as some of the most successful in program history (putting aside the unrelated stuff that had nothing to do with what happened on the court).
Ok, I agree with most of what you say. The Soph year performance in the tournament was not a disaster, and they weren't embarrassing. And the way they beat favored Kentucky in the semi was perhaps my second-favorite B-ball memory of all time.
But what Webber did at the end of the UNC game is pretty much the dictionary definition of choking.
Doesn't mean they were a disappointing (on court) class, but there's not much else you can call it.
I am not stating that two consecutive trips to the Finals was in anyway a failure and really did not mean for this tangent down memory lane to detract from Trey and this year's team. It's really more a matter of how out of whack expectations for the Fab Five seemed to get (perhaps just in my circle?) after such a wildly successful freshman campaign. It's a product of early success and an incredibly talented group of players had many (again at least my friends and me, which seemed like everyone at the time) thinking a NC was more or less a given at some point over the following three years.
That said, comparatively this year's team has much more realistic expectations for me and the larger fan base. Maybe it's my age, but I've been sketptical about the youth of this year's team and have been pleasantly surprised by the great play of so many. Trey is the man and his potential departure after this season will leave a gaping hole, but we are also stacked with a much deeper, more balanced bench of team oriented players.
I love the idea of Trey taking his place among the Michigan greats, but I selfishly hope that he pulls a Lewan and surprises everyone with another season of brilliance.
You've captured the essence of the entitled Michigan fan. If Michigan doesn't win a national championship during your student years, you've been cheated and you deserve your money back.
the rabid stoopid all began.
But after the '89 NC, the talent amassed in '91 seemed to bode well. I'm not saying my expectations at the time were realistic (and the sebsequent years have certainly underscored that), but there was no sense of entitlement just a healthy dose of youthful naivite. I certainly don't want any money back. If anything, I wished I had more at the time to take in more especially with how fleeting the moment ended up being.
I was also in school with the fab five and consider it a treasure. Looking down from the U towers upon a jubulant South University is right there alongside many fine sports memories from the era. Frankly, it was damn fine year-round.
Maybe it is because of the football domination then, or the team being right on the heels of the '89 title, or it's just interesting triva but regardless I often think of one primary fab five fact: they never won anything. I even recall them losing holiday tourneys. Again, I LOVED the fab five. But as a mantle to hang the program on, they do fall short in one fairly important category.
Amazing, magical, yes. Champions, no.
This history has me very buzzy anticipating tomorrow. This is the cusp of something very special. 24 hours out. Let's all give the energy; float the stroke, carry the defense. Bring the intensity from tip-off. Our home.
Tomorrow this team can establish a new conversation, turn a momentus page. I'm ready to help make it happen. Are you?
But we should note: we're trying to win tomorrow to finish 13-5. The Fab Five went 15-3 their sophomore year and didn't win the Big Ten. That's really unusual.
And had to share scoring with Rose and Howard while he was here. I was surprised that Rose wasn't on the list so I checked it out and he had 19.9ppg in '93-'94 the same year Howard cracked the list. So close
Webber. 2 Bs
post-up game. Even as a freshman just out of high school, he had a great understanding and command of playing with your back to the basket. Webber was such an athletic freak of nature, he could impose his will down low. Howard, was a technician down low and from the free throw lane down, was almost automatic facing the basket with his straight-up, high held jumper. The two of them together were a thing of beauty. They worked the high-low feed to perfection. Howard usually took high percentage shots- of which a great many he converted.
Burke already has a place among the many Michigan greats. He will join them on the stat sheets as well.
To reach 20ppg, if there are the given amount of games between Indiana, BTT, and NCAA Tourney, Burke needs to average:
4 games = 26.6ppg
5 games = 25.3ppg
6 games = 24.4ppg
7 games = 23.8ppg
11 games = 22.4ppg (max number of games)
I was about to do that math too since I didn't see it in the OP.
To give people an idea of how Trey has typically performed when he has scored 20 or more points this year, we should first note that he has done this 11 times and averaged 23.8 PPG in that subset of games.
In those 11 games, he has also averaged 3.5 rebounds and 7.6 assists. As for shooting, he has amassed a 55.8% field goal percentage and he is 48.2% from three-point land, which actually equates to an effective FG% of 63.7%. To get to 20 PPG average, to augment bdsisme's numbers, we might need to see performances like these in at least some of those games, I would think. The funny thing is that Trey, even given these target stats, is well-capable of making a run at this mark.
Good stuff. M is also 10-1 in those games; The lone loss coming at Indiana
I think what we are seeing as the season winds down is Trey Burke taking over in important games and refusing to lose. The Indiana game is as important as it gets in the regular season; I hope we see more of the same.
gotten more modest? I would feel naked in those shorts.
I don't know if that's such a good thing. It would mean that we would be extremely reliant on him as a scorer. What I really want to see is for him to finish above 7.0 assists per game (he's at 6.93 right now), because that would mean others are getting involved, too.
But Rice wasn't the point guard, responsible for spreading the ball around. That's apples/oranges.
Lately, Beilein has let others initiate the offense and has Trey coming off screens more often. Let Spike, Caris, Nik, THJ initiate the offense and let the best scorer score at the end of games. I have no issue with it.
Trey has been going into superstar mode as of late: Defer and get others involved early in games and take over late. I think we see more of this going forward.
Not sure if serious. You realize Trey is within reach of breaking Michigan's single season assists record, right?
Yes, I am aware. And I'd much rather have him set the assist record than score a bunch to reach 20 ppg. His big scoring games have generally come when his teammates aren't getting it done and he feels pressure to carry the load.
Trey will get his points, I'm not worried about that. If he's also racking up a ton of assists, that means his teammates are, too.
Agree. If Trey hits double-figures in assists in a tourney game, I'll be very confident of a win, whereas if he scores 25, that could mean we're playing a lot of hero ball. I believe he scored a lot in the tourney loss last year, but no one else stepped up.
Amen. If anyone has ever ha a better tournament than rice in 89 I didn't see it. The only minor blemish was his oh-so-close jumper at the end of regulation in the finals rimmed out. But that's a pretty minor knit in an amazing six game run to the Championship.
For all his sins against this program, I maintain Lou Bullock was the purest shooter I've ever seen in a Michigan uniform, Glen Rice included. His shot was a thing of beauty.
He did have a sweet stroke & was absolutely money from the FT line. But, I'd still have to give the nod to Rice on account that he also was just as successful in the NBA as we was in college despite the fact that his points came almost exclusively from the 3-pointers...or at least that's how I remember it....it was a long time ago. I am surprised that Bullock never produced much of a career in the NBA. I kinda lost track of him after he was drafted and never seemed to play.
Bullock never made an NBA roster. He was a tweener, too small for the 2 and not skilled enough as a ballhandler for the 1.
I could be wrong but I believe he's been named MVP in some of the top Italian and Spanish leagues
After taking a look, it looks like he had quite a productive career in Europe, leading the Italian league in scoring in 2001-02, the Spanish league in 3-pointers in '03-04, and was the MVP after leading his team to a title in the Spanish league in '05. I hadn't realized he never actually made an NBA squad. I guess I would have figured a guy that could knock downs 3's so well would have a role off the bench as many others have had ala Kurr, Curry, Price, etc.
He might have been able to make a team at some point, but as a 6'1" shooting guard, he was never going to be more than a situational guy in the NBA. I don't think he tried to make an NBA team after he was cut the first year. In Europe he could be a star. It probably made more sense for him to stay there.
A $71,000 "loan" from Ed Martin.
And the fact that Lou Bullock taking money (after there were pictures of Ed Martin posted in the locker room sayin "DO NOT ASSOCIATE WITH THIS MAN") kept U of M within the statute of limitations ("SOL") when the NCAA came knocking. Put bluntly, the sins of Webber would've not gotten U of M in trouble b/c they occurred too far in the past when the NCAA found out, but Bullock's actions started the SOL clock running again.
Plus the fact he came from an affluent family, and had zero connections to Ed Martin before he stepped on campus. It was entirely motivated out of greed.
Rice didn't average 25.9 in 88-89. If my memory serves correct, he averaged 89+ points per game. Unrelated note: I was 7 years old during that season.
Who knew that Demetrius Calip was a 20+/game scorer in the forgettable '90-'91 season? Just about 40% from the arc that year, too ... had a brief NBA career:
I hope Trey can join the 20 ppg club. He's been phenomenal for UM.
I would relish it more if he can beat Magic's points/assists numbers. That would just roil you-know-who. But there is no comparison, just as Gardner could never compare to Braxton Miller.
Braxton and Gardner? Wut?
some heroes are held so preciously that comparisons cannot be considered. Ask a Buckeye fan where Braxton is in the pantheon.
Love the archival photos. Not to hijack the thread, but I have fond memories and great affection for the Cazzie-era uniforms that they used as a model for the throwbacks for the Crisler rededication (the belt would have been great, but I suspect it violates some current regulation) and the Missouri-style uniforms with the big Block M.
Back to the subject. Given the choice between a share of the B1G title and, oh 30+ wins, vs Trey's PPG topping 20, I guess I know what I'd choose. But, in the immortal words of Coleman's eye-candy at the end of Trading Places..."Why can't we have both?"
So B1G title and 20 PPG for Trey! Extra primo good, Mr. Coleman.
Thank you. I'm not trying to be overly inquisitive but did you see Cazzie play at Yost? If you graduated from M in 78, that most likely make you a youngster during the Cazzie years. I am a little to young to remember the M teams of the early to mid 60's, but I can't imagine they were on tv very often.
UM Law 78. Cazzie is ten years older than me, so I was a kid, but not so young as to not remember. Cazzie and Bob Timberlake are the first UM players I recall from when I was a kid.
Didn't live in A2, so never went to a basketball game as a kid. Went to football games once a year as "ushers" with the CubScouts. Games were rarely televised back then. The 1965 Finals, obviously, but more often you'd be able to watch newsreel-type footage on things like ABC's Wide World of Sports. And, obviously there were lots of photos in newspapers, SI and the like. That's what I remember those uniforms from.
Really, back then you followed live sports on radio. One of my most vivid memories of UM basketball is listenening to the 1974 tournament on shortwave while I was studying overseas during undergrad. G*dd*mn Marquette.
Cazzie, and my favorite Rick Mount of Purdue.
Congrats to Burke regardless of what he does. Much harder to score 20 in today's game then in faster paced times of the past.