This is a tremendous help to the conversation.
"In response to CBSSports.com's request for Michigan's concussion management protocol, the athletic department sent the NCAA's 11-page document for treating head injuries."
This is a tremendous help to the conversation.
frickin scum bags!!!!
Now you're just being mean.
From his name is a Michigan fan trapped in Ohio. I mean, imagine that! You have to forgive him (or her?) for occassional lapses into ALL CAPS ANGAR every now and again.
It's ok BlueInOhio, let it out . . . just let it all out.
Was this headline in the human interest section with "Water Houseplants When Soil Is Dry"?
I just had a horrible, horrible thought!
Say this all turns out to be true, and in order to try and spare themselves MASSIVE NCAA penalties (And don't kid yourselves, this would be huge), OSU says, "We didn't know ANYTHING about it! It's all his fault! *Points at Tressel*", and cans him.
Yes, OSU probably takes a big hit and falls off their tower and we can beat them. Yay. Problem.
We never actually beat Tressel to knock him down. He defeated himself. Then, for the rest of the eternity of all time FOREVER, we have to put up with every friggin Buckstache on the planet saying turning Tressel into some sort of a martyr. "All praise the indefeatable Tressel! Just one loss against M while he was still establishing his program!" "You only started winning again because of the penalties! Paper champions!" etc, etc, etc.
I hate OSU, but generally, they are less annoying than many Sparties. ... They won't be after all this happens. IF this happens, we will never really beat them again, according to them. There'll always be some bullshit excuse.
we've beaten tressel under carr. i hope he get's canned tomorrow, the frickin scum bag!
So you're saying you think Tressel is a "frickin' scum bag" then?
......a Buckeye fan after the fifth straight thumping by the boys in Blue.....
"Things just haven't been the same since the horse broke its leg and the AD shot it....."
I love it. Now I almost hope it goes down this way just so I can hear somebody actually say it.
Who cares? If this is really true, and the NCAA does actually do something, and it is actually deservingly big, then all the whinning in the world wouldn't matter. Their arguments wouldn't have a leg to stand on, because all of the "winning" can be called in to question because of cheating. They could piss and moan, but no one would believe them (including themselves), and all they would have is the crushing knowledge that their golden savior was nothing but a fraud. I would have no problem stepping on their throat after that.
Their golden savior is a fraud - and I do want to step on their throad. Please be true...
...for OSU coaches who beat Michigan to go down in flames. IIRC, Tressel's just the fourth OSU head coach with a winning record against Michigan. The first three left dishonorably. Frances Schmidt beat U-M 4 times in a row, then lost the next three, then quit before OSU could fire him, moved West and apparently ended up a whimpering mess. We all know why Woody was fired. And Earl Bruce was 4-4, and would have been 4-5, except that he got fired a week before the U-M game and his team sent him off with a win.
So it's not out of the question that something bad could befall a guy with a winning record against Michigan.
So how exactly did Earle Bruce go down in flames?
He won his last game at OSU, beating Michigan and leaving with a 5-4 record.
To say he would have been 4-5 except his team that last game won seems ridiculous. And hardly going down in flames.
"You only started winning again because of the penalties! Paper champions!"
Don't worry. If that argument worked we'd have used it against Sparty in basketball arguments and never stopped.
Trust me, nothing will come of this. Nothing. Tressel will quote a bible verse, flash a sincere look at the cameras, and skate, like he has every time before.
Great article from Wetzel in 2007:
"...on goes Jim Tressel, saint or snake, teacher or cheater, reality almost assuredly falling somewhere in between. "
"When Tressel be blessing, the devil be messing"?
in the name of Bo, I hope this is the one that finally sticks
revokes osu's season, i for one will remember the last game being UM 44 OSU 12.
gonna start remembering it the way i want to remember it now.
Does anyone really think this is such a big deal? A little sleazy, sure. But no competitive advantage.
See Bush, Reggie. Five, Fab.
Both are cases where the NCAA said the coaches/schools should have known what went on. That's why penalties were so severe in both cases.
In this case, Tressel would have known what went on (if the story is true).
Yahoo! Sports may be the final bastion of actual investigative journalism in sports. ESPN has decided to go the way of the irrelevant sound bite and SI is quickly becoming irrelevant. If Yahoo! hires Andy Staples, watch out, he and Dr Saturday will be the only interesting MSM (sort of) reads for college football on the net.
This was my feeling before dropping the shoe on OSU. SI's big breaking news story this offseason was an expose showing that college athletes commit crimes at a rate similar to the population at-large. ESPN has some awesome movies about the past, like Pony Excess and what I hope to be an amazing Fab Five documentary, but that's it. I've quit watching SportsCenter.
Did you conveniently choose to forget the violations that occurred during his Youngstown State days?
he's an osu slappy
thought. look at his trollish and unctuous posting throughout. Hear ye hear ye...we have a Nut Slapper on our board
your post is
I have a hard time believing this statement. Isn't hating all things associated with the schools you hate regardless of rationality part of fandom? This is why I choose to believe that Tressel is the reason my childhood dog died. I hate him every day for it.
Is this even a problem under NCAA rules? Do you have to report known violations ASAP?
Unfortunately, it seems like something that will become a non-story like... tomorrow.
Yes. If (IF) this were to be true, OSU could and probably would fire Tressel with cause. He would likely have at least a show-cause penalty attached after the NCAA was finished.
This is really serious stuff if they can prove it.
It's absolutely a huge problem if true because if the raid by the FBI never happened and the memorabilia wasn't found but it was still known by the coaches or just Tressel it shows that they weren't going to say anything about this. You can't keep your mouth shut on something until you're caught then explain what happen and expect the same consequences for your actions.
And seeing as how the NCAA tried to pin a "failure to promote" charge on RR for essentially filling out forms incorrectly, with no malicious intent, I think the NCAA would do far worse to a coach that played a season while having doubts about five starters eligibility.
I believe they really frown upon lying to or omitting things from the NCAA during an investigation. This is what has Bruce Pearl ( basketball coach) in so much trouble at Tennessee. He had a cookout he knew was against the rules at his house and told the players what he was doing was illegal so don't say anything about it. Then when the NCAA showed him pictures that were taken at his home and asked if he knew where they were taken he said no. Then they showed him a picture of a lady in his home and asked if he knew who it was again he replied no. It was the wife of one of his assistants. He was turned in by Aaron Craft (yes that Aaron Craft). The SEC made Pearl sit out the first 8 SEC games this season, but the school expects there to be much more piled on when the NCAA investigation is complete. Omitting things or lying to the NCAA has serious consequences and if they have any consistency Tressel will get smacked down.
Lying to the NCAA in an investigation is a really big deal. See also Herron, Alex.
Bottom line: As someone said over at Eleven Warriors:
"There are many coaches I could see this easily from. While some of Vestie is certainly facade, the core of what is presented is true.
Bluntly stated, he isn't that damn stupid."
FWIW, I agree. I have a hard time believing that Tressel tucked away information that was at all credible. It simply would cost him too much.
Honestly, this is the reason why I have trouble believing the story is true. Did Tressel want an NC run so bad that he would try and sweep it under the rug and hope it would go away? He has to know that in today's day and age, things like that don't just go away. Information sticks around forever now. Something this big cannot be easily explained away, and he would know that.
Are you familiar with his past at Youngstown State?
I actually am not. Is there any concrete evidence of violations there?
"A guy in the Athletic Department" was the chairperson of the University's Board of Trustees.
"Some money" was $10,000 (and this was at a Div 1-AA school).
"Youngstown State failed to provide appropriate institutional control in its football program by not thoroughly investigating possible violations of NCAA legislation after receiving information concerning possible violations in January 1994. " So, in other words, Tressell heard about it but didn't investigate. Sound familiar?
This came out years after the fact in a criminal trial. Do you think this was an isolated incident?
You might want to revisit your stance in this thread now that your homey isn't quite as squeaky clean as you thought he was.
You keep saying this "don't believe writers who won't name sources," and so I'll do my part: Bob Woodward. Carl Bernstein. Watergate. Richard Nixon. "All the President's Men." The leader of the free world.
All based on an annonymous source. Deep Throat.
Please, please stop using this "omg anonymous source!" trope. It's asinine. There may be many reasons not to believe this article, but harping on the "annonymous source" thing is really a red herring.
Hell yes I believe it.
Back when the OSU "golden pants" story broke, I wrote about half of a diary entry explaining my conspiracy theory about this incident. Something called Hoke distracted me and I lost focus.
Let me dredge up a couple tidbits from news reports around that time:
1. There was no relevant rules education on selling memorabilia from AT LEAST when Pryor enrolled in Fall of 2007 until November 2009. 2009 also happens to be the year that the first memorabilia violations occurred. In other words, the specific rules in question were not explained to the players until around the time the violations happened.
CONSPIRACY THEORY SAYS: OSU found out about the violations and then educated the players on the rules, but failed to self-report.
2. OSU received an anonymous letter in July 2010 that players were selling memorabilia for value. They apparently investigated the incident but did not self-report violations. The implilcation is that OSU is claiming no violations occurred.
CONSPIRACY THEORY SAYS: OSU swept it under the rug.
This new investigative report (another great story from Yahoo Sports, which is one of the better sources of investigative sports journalism) is perfectly in line with my paranoid delusions. I'm all in for Yahoo Sports.
And if you add it all up, it seems even worse. If you're a coach who received independent tips in April and July of 2010 that the same obscure NCAA rule was being broken, and you failed to report violations that were indeed happening under your watch, then you can't help but infer improper motives by Tressel.
and i would bet there is probably more.
if it were just one player, i could see it going unnoticed. but when there are several players involved over the course of an extended period of time, how the hell do the coaches not get wind of it unless they are sticking their heads in the sand.
to me, that by definition, is not providing an adequate atmosphere of compliance.
and then there are the multiple pryor car infractions...
I'll take the bait.
1. Terrelle enrolled in 2008, not 2007. OSU does a series of classes on NCAA compliance; they don't go over everything at orientation, probably because no one would be able ot stay awake for the whole thing. The classes start with the most obvious/common infractions, then cover other issues. OSU probably didn't warn freshmen about selling Gold Pants because who the Hell would ever expect players to sell Gold Pants and Big Ten Championship rings? At the end of each class, players are given "amnesty" and asked if they had violated any of the rules. TP et al lied when asked. What is the university supposed to do? Waterboard them?
2. OSU did receive a letter. It did not refer to the tattoo parlor. It referred to a car dealership, and OSU investigated. The investigation determined that there was no violation in regards to the car dealership.
With regards to Yahoo, they are basing this on a single anonymous source and no documentation or independent verification. They claim to have a two month investigation that produced...one anonymous source. Not really that impressive. Remember when Tress was going to retire after the Sugar Bowl?
basing all this off of one anonymous source. Weak sauce.
Caveat:too tired to actually read the story.
When their one source likely is the guy who went and warned Tressel about what was going on... I'd say that's a good single source