The story title says it all. I don't know if this will end up being "he said/she said" but it could get very interesting. Popcorn?
alternate headline: man does job
The story title says it all. I don't know if this will end up being "he said/she said" but it could get very interesting. Popcorn?
Whaaaaaaa, once again, it feels too good to be true... which means it probably is.
As I see it, conversations between Compliance and St. Tressel in mid December were the beginnings of the investigation arising out of the December 9 letter from the DOJ. Perhaps TSIO should receive some flack for maintaining that the university simply did not know what Tressel knew until January 13.
But I believe the bigger issue relates to TSIO officials hearing from a player that "[St.] Tressel discussed related issues with him in the spring of 2010," to quote the article (not the player).
If TSIO learned from this player that St. Tressel was aware of the issue BEFORE the December 9 DOJ letter, that was a big red flag for TSIO regarding St. Tressel. Why didn't TSIO sit St. Tressel down immediately and get to the bottom of things? Why did it take almost a MONTH to uncover emails to and from St. Tressel's school email address involving Cicero? Why didn't TSIO get to the bottom of this BEFORE allowing St. Tressel to coach TSIO in the Sugar Bowl?
We all know why.
means it didn't happen. The only thing worse than verbally informing others of this tip is not informing it at all. Either way, he didn't follow the NCAA guidelines for this situation nor did he follow tsio's guidelines.
"Based on interviews with multiple sources who had access to transcripts of Tressel's statement during a Feb. 8 NCAA investigation, Tressel claimed to have told athletic director Gene Smith, Vannatta and Archie of his tip, Aker reported."
I would like to see the transcript and I think this story may have legs.
think that they are so stupid in Ohio that these three would keep quiet about it. They know what it could cost them, I feel like they would have acted on it. Could be wrong though, hopefully I am.
Never start a sentence with, "I just don't think they are so stupid in Ohio". You will usually be wrong.
If I could type you mean you would usually (<---Strike through) always be wrong I would, but I just don't know how to use computers.
Edit: Ugh, I just simply cannot figure out how to imbed video succesfully.
Trying to imbed THIS
and still failing.
I guess I don't get the ? step. I get the Iframe to pop up but nothing shows when i post it.
oh, it worked. Thanks so much, Justingoblue.
I shoulda got the South Park reference. I feel stupid for not. I guess its because when I watched thirteen seasons of southpark in 4 days, I was probably partaking in too many extraciriculars.
No records means it didn't happen
So,IncrediblyBLUE, the secret of being a law-abiding citizen is to not leave any record of your crimes?
a law abiding citizen is to follow the law. The secret to running a succesful college football program while still breaking the rules is to not leave a paper trail.
I understand what you are getting at though. What I am trying to point out was best explained by Ivan Cook and Beano Maisel here. Bean Cook points out that in the 80's, pre email, it was much harder to catch coaches for not reporting violations because there was no paper trail. With todays technology, it becomes much harder to avoid the paper trail, but if you manage to do it, it seems that the NCAA has no way of proving anything against you.
The NCAA should just get it over with and impose the SMU death penalty.
Saint Tress can't be the scapegoat for the entire mess if he alerted the school right?
Well, somebody is lying. Is it the lying coach that the university nevertheless holds up as a paragon of virtue in its defense to the NCAA? Or is it the school? Either way, what fun.
this is Tressel being like, "you said you had my back and throw me under the bus motherf*ckers... how about you suck on this" either way I agree that this is he said - she said as well but I love it
I'd love to hear him actually say this, all straight-faced, during a press conference...
This is crazy. If this is actually true, the NCAA needs to smack Smith/ Archie down as well. This would mean that they've lied on multiple occasions, including their response to the NCAA. Can an AD or a compliance director be given show-causes?
Don't think so, but I'm not sure. NCAA would certainly come down on them harder if these facts are proven and Gene/Dougie are still in office. USC got hammered and they had gotten rid of their Head Coach, Athletic Director, and school president. IMO, anytime allegations this serious arise, the three headed monster needs all three heads cut off in order to proceed.
Well my question was a bit rhetorical, I'm sure the NCAA can just do whatever it wants regarding penalties. Smith is likely gone, just because the same thing has now happened at Tennessee and USC. Gee isn't going anywhere unless he's actually found out to be corrupt.
downright stupid. The things that come out of his mouth are almost as good as Ozzie Guillen's postgame rants.
Well he clearly comes off as an idiot, but unless they find out that he's actually unethical, I think they'll let him get back to the other 97-98% of his job.
Speaking of Gee, I was at Von Maur today and saw a blue and yellow bowtie. I picked it up and said something about sending it to Gordon Gee and a high school kid behind me wanted to talk OSU football until he saw the colors of the tie. It was pretty awesome.
beginning to like you more and more, Justingoblue.
Get your snacks
I'm confused. Didn't everyone know about this in December? I mean, that's the reason for the original suspension. OSU got a letter from the DOJ and it conducted an investigation.
So ... what did Tressel tell them?
The guys selling/trading memorabilia for tattoos came out in December. Tressel covering it up allegedly by himself came out later.
I see. He disclosed the tip he received in December, not just the knowledge. Got it.
So according to Tressel, OSU let the 5 guys playing knowing they had knowledge the guys were ineligible for the entire season. Makes them culpable for knowingly playing players they knew were ineligible.
Well osu didn't know they were ineligible until December. Tressel knew the whole time
But, that was before their bowl game with Arkansas.
to play in the bowl game even though the NCAA knew of the violations.
I guess they shouldn't have to vacate that win.
It was his first attempt at some sort of epistemological dilemma.....be fair to the guy. No, don't be fair to THAT guy.....
that they knew he was playing them while they were ineligible and they were complicit in Tressel trying to cover it up. Basically, they tried to save Tressel, which seems very possible considering their rhetoric on not firing him whenever asked. They tried to cover up the cover up! Oh what a tangled web they weave......
I ran out of Jiffy Pop on the last OSU thread. Back in a little bit.
Why all of a sudden does Tressel come forth with this. Hmmm maybe because he sees he has the support of the fans and the state of ohio and now realizes the power he has. Gee is a bumbling moron and Smith will follow anything blindly. So why not take advantage of the situation and help his image. Just another Oh-LIE-Oh moment.
The story says the transcripts are from a while back, when he was still coach.
which means the NCAA knew he made this claim, and OSU knew he made this claim, but none of us knew he made this claim.
Now why the hell hasn't the NCAA been harsher on the school? If the head coach, AD, and chief compliance officer knew in December and didn't say anything during the bowl deliberations, and further didn't say anything until after the Tressel/Cicero e-mails were found, that certainly would indicate a LOIC.
The NCAA must believe (or at least have enough plausible deniability to be able to believe) OSU: that Tressel is lying about this. I don't believe OSU, but w/out a paper trail it's impossible to verify.
I'll bet Tress withdraws this during the NCAA hearings; payment for the retirement vs. resignation deal.
Why do you assume Smith and the others were in the interview with Tressel and the NCAA back in January? Is this common practice? What if the NCAA separated them like they always do with suspects on those crime drama shows to see if their stories jive? Maybe Tressel sang and worked out a plea deal way back then. Look for him coaching at a MAC school near you soon.
"No, son, you don't want to go to Ohio State, they cheat for the benefit of a couple players at the expense of the rest."
that Tressel made this claim. There's no way to say something this explosive and not have it made known to the other party, to say nothing of giving the school the right to respond.
If they believed Tressel or had evidence, LOIC would have been in the sanctions letter.
If Smith/Gee knew it isn't really lack of institutional control, it is the institution deliberately breaking the rules.
I love reading the comments on these articles. The mental contortions of OSU fans throughout all of this have been epic.
As much as I love to see TSIO in crap ton of trouble and finally get knocked down a few notches, is this really what is best for the Conference? Without Ohio, the Leaders Division looks very lopsided, with Wisconsin taking the helm. This would also take away drasticly from the best rivalry in all of sports. I would love to see the hammer dropped on them, but at the same time, I would hate to see the intrgrity of the conference and rivalry placed in jeopardy.
The integrity of the rivalry was compromised the moment OSU hired St. Tress. OSU has been fielding the best team money can buy for 10 years. The only way things could possibly balance out would be for the NCAA to completely nuke OSU's program and give UM the advantage (i.e. distinct talent advantage) that OSU enjoyed for the next 10 years.
Michigan's advantage will be gained the old fashioned way, with great coaching, tasty BBQ and huge scoreboards instead of cash.
Yes, yes it is...they've dominated the B10 through rampant, AD accepted, cheating. Sending a signal that will not be tolerated is absolutely the best thing to do. And it will allow for some parity and maybe a different team to rise to the top.
it makes it more uncomfortable for the NCAA to have this out there. The radio shows and ESPN will ratchet up the implausibililty again ("did the school really not know? Tressel says they knew").
I'm sure the NCAA would have preferred to privately believe Tressel was lying, now they have to do it publicly. And Smith has to address it. And there are more doubts. And Lord help them if there's evidence.
Puts a little more perspective on Smith jumping in front of Tressel when asked about this at the press conference.
The content of the story is happy news for those of us enjoying the OSU debacle, but man, that's some bad writing. Apparently OSU players get "gold pants" if they beat Michigan for tattoos.
"The revelation came during an "informal" investigative meeting held by the school following a letter the university received from the U.S. Department of Justice on Dec. 9. The letter alerted the university that some players had traded their Big Ten championship rings, football jerseys and gold pants, a pendant that players receive from the University for beating Michigan for tattoos."
That Ohio State has been informed that they will not be charged with failure to monitor, or loss of institutional control, take that for what it's worth.
"RT @dispatcheditor: BREAKING: NCAA tells OSU it found no new violations; won't face "failure to monitor" http://bit.ly/nCCndf"
My fear is that OSU gets lax penalties for this. They have to pay
Does Smith have something on the NCAA? This makes no sense unless the NCAA doesn't want to hammer OSU.
Am I just looking at this with maize and blue glasses on? It seems to me that OSU's rule breaking/cooperation is worse than USC's.
Something doesn't add up.
OSU fans are looking at the LSU verdict and saying that OSU will get a relatively light penalty becuase they have been so cooperative with the investigation. OSU's compliance dept is a joke when it comes to investigating.
"Sources close to the university investigation said that during a February investigative interview, nobody questioned Tressel about the nature of the tip or what "social choices" meant."
So far OSU has self-reported everything....the day before the article related to the FOIA request associated with it was published. They then claim that they will investigate further, and have yet to find ANYTHING additional. They didn't ask what Tressel knew? They stopped their vehicle investigation when the Ohio BMV announced they were finished even though what compliance should have been looking for was completely different than what the BMV was looking for. They must have found something with Pryor, because Pryor moved on without anything officially being found by anyone. With all of these investigations, can anyone believe they haven't found at least 1 minor violation? Because that's what they are claiming.
On the surface, OSU has looked more like LSU than USC, but when you really look at it, OSU and USC's reaction to the claims has been pretty similar. (I am not predicting OSU will get USC level sanctions, just saying that they don't deserve any special credit for being helpful or competent like LSU did.)
If that turns out to be true I would be flabbergasted.
I can't see them getting out of a loss of institutional control on this.