Tradition do you really care? Or just used against rival fans?
Ok we got the new uniforms and many have issue screaming tradition. I feel Michigan's tradition is first great academics, winning, winged helmet, block M and finally Maize & Blue. Many feel the uniforms are a tradition(though the away ones have changed many times before the past few years). My question and I ask for real honesty is if you really are about the tradition, or is it another point you make in an argument to be better then rival fans? Do you really care or just really care about winning the pissing contest?
Mod edit: Title changed. OP: If this doesn't capture what you're looking for go ahead and change my edit, but "Tradition" isn't descriptive enough. JGB.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:54 PM ^
December 19th, 2012 at 9:10 AM ^
December 18th, 2012 at 8:38 PM ^
Just to clarify, there were no away uniforms in college football until the late 1950's. So while our away jerseys have half the life of our epic home ones, they still had very minor changes for over half a century. This of course, discounts the short lived 3 years in the mid-70's where they wore white pants. Numbers on helmets (which all teams had in the 60's), a stripe on the sleeves, and an extra number or block M on the shoulder. That's it.
1964:
1976:
1980:
1986:
1991:
1994:
1999:
2003:
2007:
I'm sorry but those are quite a difference from the Alabama game, the Sugar Bowl, the Outback Bowl and the MSU game. I'd give anything to go back to the piping being the major issue with the away informs.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:12 PM ^
I'd be happy to love one uniform, if someone could tell me which one of the dozen variations I have seen over the years is the "traditional" one.
I also like the matte look, and dislike the mailman walking on my damned lawn.
I would also reference this post: http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/michigan-football-1960s-throwback-jerseys
December 18th, 2012 at 10:29 PM ^
I hereby cast my vote for these. They are actual uniforms we wore in recent history and would look badass as hell IMO with a little piping...
December 18th, 2012 at 8:49 PM ^
December 18th, 2012 at 8:58 PM ^
Based on the thread title, I think only someone named "Tradition" is supposed to answer the question.
December 18th, 2012 at 8:57 PM ^
Who labeled every post "trolling?" It's been a while since we've had a negbang thread!
December 18th, 2012 at 9:04 PM ^
fuck tradition, i'd sell my soul for a NC, just win baby
December 18th, 2012 at 9:09 PM ^
I feel Michigan's tradition is first great academics, winning, winged helmet, block M and finally Maize & Blue
So you're saying that an 12-0 season with a pink and purple 'Script M' would be more respectful of tradition than, say, 2008?
December 18th, 2012 at 9:47 PM ^
December 18th, 2012 at 11:25 PM ^
Ok Mike Valenti.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:07 PM ^
In fact, I really wish they would find a cure for breast cancer, because I am beginning to think the whole pink thing has been commercialized to fund too many "not for profit" salaries.
December 18th, 2012 at 9:13 PM ^
December 18th, 2012 at 9:19 PM ^
So yeah, traditions are kind of a big deal
December 18th, 2012 at 9:33 PM ^
I grew up watching championships and heisman winners wearing the same uniforms... Id like to think our future achivements could be done in the same tradition...
December 18th, 2012 at 9:57 PM ^
Question for the OP: Take away tradition and what is left that makes Michigan Michigan?
Going down your list....
Great academics? Lots of schools do that.
Winning? Lots of schools do that.
Winged helmet? Now we're getting somewhere. But I suspect you will scream just as hard as most people are about the uniformz if the winged helmet changes, so you have no business calling everyone else out.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:14 PM ^
December 18th, 2012 at 10:36 PM ^
Right. You care about the helmet. I take it you'd be upset if that ever changed. So you have no right to tell people to stop complaining about the stuff they think defines Michigan. I doubt you consider the helmet just a thing to get in a pissing contest with other fans about.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:47 PM ^
December 18th, 2012 at 10:39 PM ^
Can you name even three schools that have traditionally had great academics and lots of wins, which are still winning today? I doubt it.
If this were the thought process that causes people to value the helmets, the obsession with this stuff would be a lot worse than I thought.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:42 PM ^
Texas, USC, ND.
December 18th, 2012 at 11:28 PM ^
USC didn't have Michigan-caliber academics until very recently, and I just forgot Texas, but ok.
Without arguing about rank among that bunch, Michigan is (say) top 4 in great academics + winning tradition. If you're from the Midwest and value those things, your options are Notre Dame and Michigan. If you aren't Catholic and value those things, you've got USC, Texas, and Michigan. If you prefer public schools and value those things, you've got Texas and Michigan.
It's really bizarre to me that the helmets could be what actually matters to people.
December 19th, 2012 at 10:40 AM ^
I mean, if you're talking top five in wins, there can't be more than five. It's like asking "name three teams that are in the top two of wins all time...."
And where is academic excellence? Only those better than Michigan? Again, it's like you're trying to create a question that the only answer is Michigan.
Other teams with better rated academics that have had some current success, and some historic success, respectively- Stanford (current, and a bit historically) and UCLA (historically, and some current).
Teams with close academics and good to great tradition that comes near Michigan (currently #29 on US News and Report's webpage...just a guide, not a hard and fast truth)-
#41 Wisconsin (current), #44 Miami (some history), #46 Penn State (Texas who we rank as "qualifying is tied for #46), Washington #46, #54 Florida, and yes, #56 Ohio State.
If you want to say Michigan is pretty special in its own right, you probably won't get much argument around here. To say no one else can claim to be a good school and have good programs isn't really fair though.
December 19th, 2012 at 12:13 PM ^
I think of Notre Dame and Michigan forming a natural class, academically at the top of the traditional athletic powers, but that does neglect USC (which I didn't know was a good school) and maybe Texas (which I thought was a better school than that ranking suggests). I tend to only pay attention to public schools when I look at rankings for what are basically political reasons, so I won't get into that, except to say that, among public schools, UCLA and Cal are the only ones that have consistently ranked as well as Michigan since I graduated high school. There's a difference between a good school and an elite one, and Michigan is genuinely elite (top 10 or better) in the areas that I care about.
So my thought process is this: Michigan is one of the top 3 public universities academically, and among a slightly larger handful (say, 10) of the top programs athletically. Since the other contenders are from regions of the country I don't particularly like visiting, I always took that to be reason enough to like Michigan. And now that I have multiple Michigan degrees and lots of history with Michigan, including the fact that my parents have multiple Michigan degrees, there's plenty to justify the extent of my fandom.
I really hadn't expected that the reason that people care so much about uniforms could be that the uniforms are a meaningful symbol (or even source) of their attachment to Michigan. It does explain the reactions to new uniforms, but jeez, it's just clothing.
Incidentally, in the rankings I care most about, Michigan is top 5, and has been for years. The best athletic programs at other schools in the top 10 are at North Carolina (fuck them), Stanford (which I could see myself being a fan of, were I from California), and then places like Pitt (no thanks) and Rutgers (woo B1G).
It strikes me that the reasons I like Michigan are pretty defensible. It has better academics or better athletics than the vast majority of schools in the country, and there are maybe 5-10 school tops that can compare on both dimensions. Ruling out the others for regional (e.g., USC because fuck LA) or other (e.g., ND because I'm not Catholic) reasons seems pretty good, and allows me to recognize that fans of lots of schools have equally good reasons for their fandom, without giving me any reason to think fans of MSU or OSU are on equal footing with Michigan fans. Seems like a good outcome.
December 19th, 2012 at 6:51 AM ^
Many of us went to school at Michigan, so Michigan will always be Michigan regardless of whether or not they make any changes to the uniform or helmet.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:03 PM ^
December 18th, 2012 at 10:34 PM ^
December 18th, 2012 at 10:36 PM ^
This thread was a lot of fun to read. Thank you.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:37 PM ^
There are important parts of Michigan's tradition that I genuinely value (e.g., academic quality, commitment to being a university rather than a profit-seeking entity, etc.). But the important parts have nothing to do with uniforms. I do think that changing uniforms due to a profit motive is pretty lame, in that it takes Michigan's brand in a direction that abandons its most intrinsically valuable features. So I think there is less that differentiates Michigan athletics from other prominent athletic programs in a positive way today than there was when I was an undergraduate. That might just be get-off-my-lawn-ism, though.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:38 PM ^
December 18th, 2012 at 10:39 PM ^
how are the mgopoints determined and how do people rate comments?
December 18th, 2012 at 10:40 PM ^
you'll learn one day, kimosabe. you have to get 100 points first. but how to do that is a state secret.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:49 PM ^
You get one point for each post you make and two for making a thread, ten for making a diary, 100 for getting bumped to the front page. After one hundred points, you'll see a "moderate" button on the bottom of each post, with the ability to tag a comment with an adjective describing it (the "normal" you see is a generic stamp of approval); you'll also see more options on the left side by account data, including ability to author original posts or diaries.
As far as people rating comments, that's all up to the individual user. Some people downvote or upvote everything they see a certain user post, some try to give honest assessments for posts they think are good or bad, and some never use the feature.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:39 PM ^
how are the mgopoints determined and how do people rate comments?
December 18th, 2012 at 11:28 PM ^
You ever see Fight Club?
The first rule of MGoPoints is...
(Please neg me for breaking the first rule)
December 18th, 2012 at 10:44 PM ^
December 18th, 2012 at 11:01 PM ^
Have those Ohio fans seen the Ohio uniformz?
December 18th, 2012 at 10:58 PM ^
I think people just really like to complain, honestly. I mean, I enjoy it a fair bit myself, no harm in that.
December 18th, 2012 at 10:59 PM ^
Dave Brandon doesn't even care about tradition and he played for freaking Bo.
December 18th, 2012 at 11:09 PM ^
When Michigan plays at home, we wear our iconic jerseys. It's not like we're Oregon or anything. If he really didn't care about tradition, don't you think he would be changing even more?
Brandon quoted Bo: "You’ll either get better or you’re going to get worse. You don’t have the opportunity to stay the same"
December 18th, 2012 at 11:16 PM ^
If pooping contests are measured in Courics, are pissing contests measured in Lauers?
December 18th, 2012 at 11:56 PM ^
December 19th, 2012 at 6:32 AM ^
1. Caring about the school tradition
2. Like to use it in a argument as to way their school is better then another
If you look at message boards where rival fans are mixed you see plenty of people putting oh yea well we have better tradition then you.
My guess is the people who posted child like responses are those people or they are just good old fashion jag offs who like to be the Internet tough guy.
December 19th, 2012 at 12:34 AM ^
I don't give two SHITS about what happened a century ago! Why you go ask bout all dem feelings of mine? What comes before or after me, I don't care! Ya'll are nothin's in the i's of the EES-EEE-CEE!!
No but, aye I sayeth in favor of tradition...if you must know.
December 19th, 2012 at 1:51 AM ^
Heck, when I told some friends that the band marches down Hoover before the game and it's a good time to walk in, they were like "huh?" Probably don't even know the MMB's pregame lineup and have never heard Varsity in their life.
I've been going to games for 18 years since before I could walk though, so I might see things a little differently